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What are the list of things that chapters arent allowed to do?

i know they cant:
-turn to chaos worship, but whats stopped them
-Reform their chapter into a legion (this went badly for astral claws)
-loot weapons of xenos (even thought in some cases they are better)

what else is there that they cant do?

It isn't just chaos worship they aren't allowed, but anything else than worshipping the Emperor and maybe their primarch would be declared heresy by the Inquisition.
There are also many rules in the Codex Astartes that some chapters see as laws, but that is specific for each chapter, the Black Templars don't follow the Codex for example.

Deathwatch are allowed to loot xeno weapons.

jelisi wrote:Deathwatch are allowed to loot xeno weapons.

I never really considered the Deathwatch to be a chapter, I thought it was just a bunch of marines from different chapters, that the Ordo Xenos uses...

bombboy1252 wrote:

jelisi wrote:Deathwatch are allowed to loot xeno weapons.

I never really considered the Deathwatch to be a chapter, I thought it was just a bunch of marines from different chapters, that the Ordo Xenos uses...

They are a chapter, they have some members that stay and some that serve them for a limited time. So they're actually a xeno-killing chapter with some kind of a strange recruiting proces.

Marines cannot kill SoB unless they're silver and covered in books.

-They cannot govern an Imperial planet at will or take command over any Imperial Guard Regiments.
-They are also in obligation to respond to help when HLoT call them to the defense of the Imperium.


And pretty much what OP said in his first post. In general marines can't oppose rule of the High Lords nor have anything with the forces of Chaos. While everything else is allowed to some degree.

Obviously, sorcery, worship of the Chaos Powers, summoning daemons, and using alien tech. Not all Chapters follow the Codex (Black Templars, Space Wolves, Grey Knights), and the Astartes can ignore the rantings of the Ministorum, as evidenced in the Chaplain entry in Codex: Space Marines, and especially in the fluff of the Iron Hands. Chapters can proclaim Crusades and purges can be proclaimed by Chapters, especially by the Black Templars; the Blood Ravens purged Kronus and were exonerated of all charges of treason by the Inquisition since they were ultimately able to justify their actions. The Administratum has only partial control, since the Chapter Homeworlds are independent from the Administratum, and the Mechanicus and the Astartes tend to place their joint interests over that of the general Imperium. The Blood Ravens, Dark Angels, and other secretive Chapters are given a great deal of leeway by the Imperium. For instance, anyone who tries to investigate the Unforgiven either have an 'accident' or disappear mysteriously. The Blood Ravens are suspected to be conducting heretical studies in their Librarium Sanctorum (and rightly so) by the Ordo Hereticus, but someone high up makes sure these inquiries go nowhere, probably by the the same people (Ordo Malleus and the Mechanicus) hiding the origins of Blood Ravens gene-seed. So, I suppose, Space Marines are free to do a lot of things a lot of other Imperial organizations wouldn't/couldn't do.

Look at the ultramarines. Most of the stuff they do, is a big no-no in their rulebook.

Govern a planet? They govern a system.
Not raise their own "guard" soldiers? Macragge system pdf.
Have battleships other than strike cruisers and escorts? "it's not our fleet! It's to guard the system.., promise..."
Specialise in warfare, beyond what the book says?? Tyranid hunters, need I say more?

Etc
//Calle

Technically they're under the High Lords, but the High Lords know if they infringe on the Astartes' rights and Emperor-given semi-autonomy (not to mention religious independence), they'd be facing an Astartes rebellion like what happened to Vandire (the Mechanicus and the Astartes laying siege to Terra again and only the Custodes can stop both sides).

Jag_Calle wrote:
Govern a planet? They govern a system.

System? That's funny. Try an ENTIRE EASTER FRINGE. Something little called the Realm of Ultramar.

I love the Ultramarine philosophy. BA with Mephiston? Out comes Tigirius. Astorath? Cassius. Dante? Calgar.

They can't call in direct air-support from the Imperial Navy.

Jag_Calle wrote:
Govern a planet? They govern a system.

Ther is nothing preventing Astartes from ruling a system or a planet. The Space Marine Codedx even points out some Chapter Masters rule entire sub-sectors.

Jag_Calle wrote:
Not raise their own "guard" soldiers? Macragge system pdf.

There is nothing illegal about having PDF. The Marine Codex also states that Chapter Masters are expected to command their PDF.

Jag_Calle wrote:
Have battleships other than strike cruisers and escorts? "it's not our fleet! It's to guard the system.., promise..."

Every Marine Chapter has those. They are balled Battle barges and not restricted by the Codex at all.

Jag_Calle wrote:
Specialise in warfare, beyond what the book says?? Tyranid hunters, need I say more?

That is a pretty poor piece of fluff that I honestly blame on McNeill. But specializing in a field of warfare is not illegal for Astartes or half the Astartes chapters would be heretical.

Brother Coa wrote:

Jag_Calle wrote:
Govern a planet? They govern a system.

System? That's funny. Try an ENTIRE EASTER FRINGE. Something little called the Realm of Ultramar.

The Realm of Ultramar is hardly as big as the entire Eastern Fringe. It’s only a tiny part actually.

Squidmanlolz wrote:They can't call in direct air-support from the Imperial Navy.

Why would they need to, when Astartes-exclusive ships can bombard ground targets with greater effect and proficiency than the Imperial Navy's ships? The Imperial Navy specializes in ship-to-ship, aerospace combat, but the Astartes naval component, while no pushover in space, is geared towards orbital support. Basic Astartes strategy: devastating orbital bombardment followed by mass drop pod assault to mop up survivors and destroy remaining enemy forces before they recover.

Tadashi wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:They can't call in direct air-support from the Imperial Navy.

Why would they need to, when Astartes-exclusive ships can bombard ground targets with greater effect and proficiency than the Imperial Navy's ships? The Imperial Navy specializes in ship-to-ship, aerospace combat, but the Astartes naval component, while no pushover in space, is geared towards orbital support. Basic Astartes strategy: devastating orbital bombardment followed by mass drop pod assault to mop up survivors and destroy remaining enemy forces before they recover.

It would always help to have Marauders overhead during an assault. And to have air-superiority fighters. Remember, the Imperial Navy also contains a lot of atmospheric vehicles.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:I love the Ultramarine philosophy. BA with Mephiston? Out comes Tigirius. Astorath? Cassius. Dante? Calgar.

Comparing Astorath to Cassius is like comparing a Ferarri to a Honda Civic, same with Dante and Calgar.

Squidmanlolz wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:They can't call in direct air-support from the Imperial Navy.

Why would they need to, when Astartes-exclusive ships can bombard ground targets with greater effect and proficiency than the Imperial Navy's ships? The Imperial Navy specializes in ship-to-ship, aerospace combat, but the Astartes naval component, while no pushover in space, is geared towards orbital support. Basic Astartes strategy: devastating orbital bombardment followed by mass drop pod assault to mop up survivors and destroy remaining enemy forces before they recover.

It would always help to have Marauders overhead during an assault. And to have air-superiority fighters. Remember, the Imperial Navy also contains a lot of atmospheric vehicles.

Thunderhawks fulfill the Marauders role. And fighter bases can be torn apart by orbital bombardment from Battle Barges and Strike Cruisers in orbit.

Squidmanlolz wrote:They can't call in direct air-support from the Imperial Navy.

Source?

I'm pretty just if a Chapter Master wants some bombing he'll get some bombing.

Thamor wrote:

Squidmanlolz wrote:They can't call in direct air-support from the Imperial Navy.

Source?

I'm pretty just if a Chapter Master wants some bombing he'll get some bombing.

"Execute "Hammerdown Protocol"."
"Understood. Commencing ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT. Purgation spread. Purge the alien."

I'm quite surprised that all the obvious have been missed out;
-Punching small children in the face.
-Assaulting old ladies.
-Drawing moustaches on portraits of the Emperor and/or the Primarchs.
-Mooning Inquisitorial escorts on parade.
-Challenging Imperial Guard to drinking games the night before a big battle.
-Buying alcohol for the under-age.
-Tattooing the Space Wolves when they pass out drunk.
-Y'know, heresy and stuff..

Scorpionov wrote:What are the list of things that chapters arent allowed to do?

i know they cant:
-turn to chaos worship, but whats stopped them
-Reform their chapter into a legion (this went badly for astral claws)
-loot weapons of xenos (even thought in some cases they are better)

what else is there that they cant do?

They cannot command troops not of their chapter (e.g. AdMech, Imperial Guard, Imperial Navy, etc) without some sort of special dispensation from the other organizations higher commands (a legacy of the Horus Heresy)

They aren't supposed to have Lance equipped capital ships in their fleets (to help make sure they can't challenge the Imperial Navy)

Generally they aren't supposed to have large scale PDF forces either, the Ultramarines and a few others being exceptions given their dual roles as planetary governors as well.

Brother Coa wrote:

Jag_Calle wrote:
Govern a planet? They govern a system.

System? That's funny. Try an ENTIRE EASTER FRINGE. Something little called the Realm of Ultramar.

Nope, it's pretty much a system. They only have actual 100% control of, if I remember correctly, 7 or 8 habitable planets. Everything else is shared by the Imperium/Xenos/Chaos/Uninhabitable.

Vaktathi wrote:

Scorpionov wrote:What are the list of things that chapters arent allowed to do?

i know they cant:
-turn to chaos worship, but whats stopped them
-Reform their chapter into a legion (this went badly for astral claws)
-loot weapons of xenos (even thought in some cases they are better)

what else is there that they cant do?

They cannot command troops not of their chapter (e.g. AdMech, Imperial Guard, Imperial Navy, etc) without some sort of special dispensation from the other organizations higher commands (a legacy of the Horus Heresy)

They aren't supposed to have Lance equipped capital ships in their fleets (to help make sure they can't challenge the Imperial Navy)

Generally they aren't supposed to have large scale PDF forces either, the Ultramarines and a few others being exceptions given their dual roles as planetary governors as well.

Actually, Astartes can take control of said forces during a campaign. Chapter Masters do that a lot. Lord Dante during the Second Armageddon War, the Lord of Ultramar during the First Tyrannic War, and Logan Grimnar during the 13th Black Crusade. They can and do serve as overall Commanders, even if they don't serve as direct Commanders if non-Astartes forces.

Looks like they aren't allowed to have a standing force significant enough to, you know...accomplish gak, either. I don't care how awesome individual marines are and their equipment, 1000 battle brothers is a joke.

Tadashi wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

Scorpionov wrote:What are the list of things that chapters arent allowed to do?

i know they cant:
-turn to chaos worship, but whats stopped them
-Reform their chapter into a legion (this went badly for astral claws)
-loot weapons of xenos (even thought in some cases they are better)

what else is there that they cant do?

They cannot command troops not of their chapter (e.g. AdMech, Imperial Guard, Imperial Navy, etc) without some sort of special dispensation from the other organizations higher commands (a legacy of the Horus Heresy)

They aren't supposed to have Lance equipped capital ships in their fleets (to help make sure they can't challenge the Imperial Navy)

Generally they aren't supposed to have large scale PDF forces either, the Ultramarines and a few others being exceptions given their dual roles as planetary governors as well.

Actually, Astartes can take control of said forces during a campaign. Chapter Masters do that a lot. Lord Dante during the Second Armageddon War, the Lord of Ultramar during the First Tyrannic War, and Logan Grimnar during the 13th Black Crusade. They can and do serve as overall Commanders, even if they don't serve as direct Commanders if non-Astartes forces.

Grimnar served as the commander of SM forces during the 13th Black Crusade. Overall command was in the hands of Creed. SM forces, when present in great numbers, are forced to submit to 1 overall authority, usually there is 1 chapter master present but if there is more than 1 or none and just lots of captains the entire thing has to be worked out beforehand.

Right, but Chapters can ask for help from their brother Chapters descended from the same Legion. Let's say the Eldar start attacking an Unforgiven Chapter deliberately and repeatedly. The next time they pop out of the Webway, they'll be facing not just one Chapter, but several. A full Chapter is something that only the CSM and the Tyranids are capable of taking on with a significant hope of victory. And Chapters can, and do, conquer worlds with only one Company. That's how well trained and well armed Astartes are.

Tadashi wrote:Right, but Chapters can ask for help from their brother Chapters descended from the same Legion. Let's say the Eldar start attacking an Unforgiven Chapter deliberately and repeatedly. The next time they pop out of the Webway, they'll be facing not just one Chapter, but several. A full Chapter is something that only the CSM and the Tyranids are capable of taking on with a significant hope of victory. And Chapters can, and do, conquer worlds with only one Company. That's how well trained and well armed Astartes are.

Well yeah.
Chapters can ask for help from anyone...
SW could ask for help from the Ultramarines.
Whether they will actually help is another matter.
Some chapter owe a blood debt of some kind to another chapter and so will always arrive to help, other chapters detest each other and so will never help. Ever.

purplefood wrote: SM forces, when present in great numbers, are forced to submit to 1 overall authority, usually there is 1 chapter master present but if there is more than 1 or none and just lots of captains the entire thing has to be worked out beforehand.

If that's the case then the most experienced and most decorated Captain takes command, like Captain Sicarus at the Zeist Campaign.

And Chapters descended from the same Legion will help each other. Even a renegade Blood Angels-descended Chapter is helping their brothers in the Baal Crisis.

Tadashi wrote:

purplefood wrote: SM forces, when present in great numbers, are forced to submit to 1 overall authority, usually there is 1 chapter master present but if there is more than 1 or none and just lots of captains the entire thing has to be worked out beforehand.

If that's the case then the most experienced and most decorated Captain takes command, like Captain Sicarus at the Zeist Campaign.

That started out as an Ulramarine campaign and was joined by others, of course he would take charge.
SM play politics just like everyone else. They just work it out quicker than everyone else.
It could be the captain commanding the biggest force or with the nearest support or a myriad of other reasons.
However, this is getting OT so lets leave it there...