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If you are familiar with the lore of Alpharius, you'll know that he was approached by a secret society of farseers during the Horus Heresy and given one of two paths. If he was to remain loyal to the emperor, the emperor would survive an humanity would stay around a while longer and eventually feed into chaos destroying the galaxy. If he joined Horus, the emperor would be killed and Horus, out of guilt, would eradicate the human race, destroying the chaos gods in the process. Quite the dilemma. Well, as you know, Alpha legion is now a Chaos army, but. Have a different theory. Some like to say the Eldar were tainted by Chaos and that is the reason the result was so whacked out, but I believe that in actuality AL actually did sie with the emperor, going undercover into the warp for recon. This would explain the turn of events taken after the heresy. If AL did in fact side with Horus why did the win? Because, in fact, they never sided with him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I apologize for any tops ahead of time, new iPad impossible to type on

I was under the impression that it wasn't a group of Farseers per-se but more so a group known as the 'Cabal' whom were a mixture of xenos species.

As far as I can tell though; we've ended up with a mixture of both paths.

Emperor has died. Humanity has survived.

Eiríkr wrote:Emperor has died. Humanity has survived.

Both are false.

The Emperor is near death, and so is Humanity.

Alpha legion was not part of their vision of the future.

The prediction was the if Horus won, humanity would die and take Chaos with it.

They convinced the Alpha Legion to join Horus an attempt to ensure Horus' victory. Alpha Legion failed to produce that result though.

You are not the first, or probably last, person to bring up this topic on this board.

DarknessEternal wrote:Alpha legion was not part of their vision of the future.

The prediction was the if Horus won, humanity would die and take Chaos with it.

They convinced the Alpha Legion to join Horus an attempt to ensure Horus' victory. Alpha Legion failed to produce that result though.

You are not the first, or probably last, person to bring up this topic on this board.

This.

Though the Alpha Legion certainly is badass. They're still wandering around the galaxy, doing nobody knows what, led by nobody knows who, every now and then popping up and plunging some fragment of the galaxy into utter confusion and anarchy for reasons that are so obscure, nobody can agree on WHY they do things we don't know they do on the orders of nobody knows who.

Alpharius and Omegon coulda given Tzeentch chess lessons, is what I'm saying.

No, the Alpha Legion was told if Horus won humanity would be enslaved but eventually rebel and create a new better society but if The Emperor won Civilization would be nearly destroyed, never fully recover and this would lead to 10,000 years of war.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:No, the Alpha Legion was told if Horus won humanity would be enslaved but eventually rebel and create a new better society but if The Emperor won Civilization would be nearly destroyed, never fully recover and this would lead to 10,000 years of war.

Where are you getting that from? I believe we're all discussing the scene in the book Legion where Alpharius speaks face-to-face with the Cabal, and he's explicitly told that humanity will be wiped out if Horus wins.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:No, the Alpha Legion was told if Horus won humanity would be enslaved but eventually rebel and create a new better society but if The Emperor won Civilization would be nearly destroyed, never fully recover and this would lead to 10,000 years of war.

Yeah I don't recall reading that anywhere.

Cabal to Alpharius:

If Horus wins humanity will fall to chaos and burn out quickly, removing the chaos gods source of "food" and all but eliminating them from power in the galaxy. No humans left, but the rest of the galaxy will be free from the gods influence.

If Horus doesn't win then humanity will slowly circle the drain, constantly feeding the gods until you end up with the horrible grimdark future of only war, with humanity dying anyhow, but this time a very slow and painful death.

From what I recall nowhere in the cabal's prophecies was the possibilty of the Emperor not dying/quasi-dying. It was either going to be emperor dead followed by Horus destroying everything else. Or Horus dead, emperor golden throned, and the slow death via grimdark. They pretty much gave the Alpha Legion the choice of ripping the band-aid off fast or slow. Apharius chose fast and sided with Horus, but Horus lost anyway so now it's the slow version.

Which brings to question wtf is the Legion supposed to do now? Did they go crazy with remorse, guilt, failure? Did some of them just decide f*** it and go all out for chaos? Nobody knows... Which is why the Legion is indeed, so very very badass.

Lint wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:No, the Alpha Legion was told if Horus won humanity would be enslaved but eventually rebel and create a new better society but if The Emperor won Civilization would be nearly destroyed, never fully recover and this would lead to 10,000 years of war.

Yeah I don't recall reading that anywhere.

Cabal to Alpharius:

If Horus wins humanity will fall to chaos and burn out quickly, removing the chaos gods source of "food" and all but eliminating them from power in the galaxy. No humans left, but the rest of the galaxy will be free from the gods influence.

If Horus doesn't win then humanity will slowly circle the drain, constantly feeding the gods until you end up with the horrible grimdark future of only war, with humanity dying anyhow, but this time a very slow and painful death.

From what I recall nowhere in the cabal's prophecies was the possibilty of the Emperor not dying/quasi-dying. It was either going to be emperor dead followed by Horus destroying everything else. Or Horus dead, emperor golden throned, and the slow death via grimdark. They pretty much gave the Alpha Legion the choice of ripping the band-aid off fast or slow. Apharius chose fast and sided with Horus, but Horus lost anyway so now it's the slow version.

Which brings to question wtf is the Legion supposed to do now? Did they go crazy with remorse, guilt, failure? Did some of them just decide f*** it and go all out for chaos? Nobody knows... Which is why the Legion is indeed, so very very badass.

Err, maybe I did some extrapolating. Point is ,if Emperor won then things would be grimdark. And the fact nobody including themselves knows what they're doing is the opposite of badass.

Read Deliverance Lost. You start to get the idea of how we ended up where we are.

The thing is, is Alpharius actually dead? He was supposed to have died against Gulliman, however, who is to really know if that was him. Further, what of Omegon?

My belief, and that is just an opinion is ~ they are still trying to bring about the downfall of the Imperium "For the Emperor".

Draenath wrote:The thing is, is Alpharius actually dead? He was supposed to have died against Gulliman, however, who is to really know if that was him. Further, what of Omegon?

The entire battle is doubted in-universe. The Inquisitor who provided the account for the battle was accused of being an Alpha Legion agent with everybody questioning the validity of the account. You would think the supposed death of a traitor Primarch to be well noted in the Ultramarines combat records, yet the Ultramarines doubt it and this is apparently news to everybody.

I want to play too. My pet theory:

The Cabal are unwitting pawns of Chaos/Tzeentch.

Some sources say the Alpha's are aligned with Chaos Undivided and others say it is unclear. Some say they are double agents, but after the Hunt for Voldorius it is pretty clear that at least some of the Alpha's have gone all the way spiky. I would find the partial double agent theory more believable if they are "aligned" with Undivided rather than Tzeezie.

What if its simple, like this: what if the Cabal are working toward their own ends?

The Cabal never specified how long it would take for Horus to secure his victory. yea i know that big H is dead but his lackey Abbaddon can still make this victory.

redkommando wrote:his lackey Abbaddon can still make this victory.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!

Oh man, no seriously.

What if Alpharius desided to help Horus and Omegan desided to help the Emperor?

They could keep tabs on both ends of the spectrum and see what outcome works best for them.

As I understood it in Legion, is that the Alphas, in siding with Horus was ultimately saving humanity and the galaxy (they would burn the galaxy quickly, but ultimately survive, and bring about a lasting "peace" throughout the galaxy. If they sided with Big E, then his "ultimate denial" of Chaos would doom humanity AND the galaxy.

In reading Deliverance Lost, we can see that they ARE following the Cabal, but in their own way. The Cabal has told them to "destroy" a certain thing that the Raven Guard were after, and yet, the Alpha Legion Primarchs see the value of having such a thing for themselves, and twist the orders a bit, destroy, but also save this thing (Trying to describe without using spoilers for those who have not read the book.. its a good read)

And so, we end up somewhere in the middle of Horus wins/Emperor wins, because neither one truly got a victory either way.

Ensis Ferrae wrote:As I understood it in Legion, is that the Alphas, in siding with Horus was ultimately saving humanity and the galaxy (they would burn the galaxy quickly, but ultimately survive, and bring about a lasting "peace" throughout the galaxy. If they sided with Big E, then his "ultimate denial" of Chaos would doom humanity AND the galaxy.

In reading Deliverance Lost, we can see that they ARE following the Cabal, but in their own way. The Cabal has told them to "destroy" a certain thing that the Raven Guard were after, and yet, the Alpha Legion Primarchs see the value of having such a thing for themselves, and twist the orders a bit, destroy, but also save this thing (Trying to describe without using spoilers for those who have not read the book.. its a good read)

And so, we end up somewhere in the middle of Horus wins/Emperor wins, because neither one truly got a victory either way.

And somewhere, in the depths of the warp, a formless, ageless mass of energy can't stop laughing.

redkommando wrote:The Cabal never specified how long it would take for Horus to secure his victory. yea i know that big H is dead but his lackey Abbaddon can still make this victory.

But... He has no arms? How can he win without arms?

On topic: The Alpha Legion is badass. Aslong as you don't take Dawn of War's version into account.


SIIIINNNNDDDDRRRRIIII!

The alpha legion were always on their own side.

You have to consider this: everyone is out for themselves. The cabal are made up of various races that the IoM were out to eradicate. The only good xenos is a dead xenos and all that.

Under those conditions do you really think that what the cabal showed alpha legion was true? Absolutely not.

The cabal wanted mankind to die. Period. Horus turning traitor was an absolute boon for them and provided an opportunity to try and tip the scales in order to ensure humanity would either completely go away or be so turned upon themselves that the crusade would be forever stopped.

With regards to chaos goin away if humanity died: bear in mind that the chaos gods have been around since the time of the old ones. Predating mankind by who knows how many millions of years. Mankinds death wouldn't stop them.

Alpha legion on the other hand, being the last to be found, wasn't exactly married to the idea of always following the emperor. However, they recognized the resources of a fellow clandestine operation and faked the alliance.

In the end, alpha just wanted Horus and the emperor to hurt each other enough that they could step in and take over. Obviously things didn't quite work out well enough for them.

Badass? Maybe. I think the inquisition has them beat with regards to conniving and backstabbing though.

Alpha Legion does seem like an interesting bunch, but damned if there isn't much in the BL centered around them(AFAIK).

I laughed when someone said that failddon would actually have done a good job. lol.

I would think the Cabal would tell the Alpha Legion whatever they needed to hear that results in the best path for the Eldar, not humanity. If a lie suited the Eldar better a lie is what is told.

Orlanth wrote:I would think the Cabal would tell the Alpha Legion whatever they needed to hear that results in the best path for the Eldar, not humanity. If a lie suited the Eldar better a lie is what is told.

the Cabal is not the Eldar, and have never had anything to do with them.


I would also keep in mind, I dont remember where I read it, but the Alpha Legion have some of it's legionaries stationed in basically ALL facets of the Imperium, and they have agents within most of the Marine Chapters, and I would presume (though I havent seen anything to support it) even within the Chaos Legions, to an extent.

So, if you have a Legion of marines who have successfully infiltrated the Administratum, the Inquisition, the Ecclesiarchy (ok, so maybe they are just people loyal to the Legion first and not necessarily marines), as well as a good portion of marine chapters (i forget the source, but they have a near constant presence within the UMs for some reason or other)... To me, this is what truly makes them badass

redkommando wrote:The Cabal never specified how long it would take for Horus to secure his victory. yea i know that big H is dead but his lackey Abbaddon can still make this victory.

On the 231,484,435th "Black Crusade of Utter Total ,and with certainly work this time, Black ickyness"

I agree the Cabal isn't above lying but they sounded pretty dead on. There is a huge duality in the sense of right and wrong here and I have a hard time believing ANY legion, Chaos or not, would ever sacrifice the human race so a bunch of xenos could live in happiness. That being said, Failaddon and a successful crusade? A cherub would have a better chance against a Carnie.

BLOODCLAWallday wrote:I have a hard time believing ANY legion, Chaos or not, would ever sacrifice the human race so a bunch of xenos could live in happiness.

Humanity is doomed no matter who won, that was the point. The choices were humanity dies and takes everything else with them, or humanity dies while the rest of the galaxy is finally free from Chaos.

Have you read Deliverance Lost yet?

Banahir wrote:Have you read Deliverance Lost yet?

Spoiler:

Alpharius ignores the orders of the Cabal after being told to destroy the Emperor's Gift and choosing not, but instead claiming it for the glory of the Alpha Legion. More likely than not the current era Alpha Legion are no longer influenced by the goals of the Cabal

I think that it is quite possible that the current fluff stating that the Alpha legion are in nearly ALL chapters of the loyalist marines could be directly a result from these actions.