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I know that they are bad in close combat so that doesn't need to be mentioned. Keep it civil!

Drop pod blood angles that get on top of them right away.

That would pretty much do it!

It's no secret that the Tau have been somewhat marginalized, and need a new dex asap.
If you can't overwhelm them with assault units, focus fire on the suits or markerlight units. Tau rely on heavy synergy, break the right links of the chain.

i keep hearing that but i just played a short game with a friend and i shot the hell out of his army before he could touch my Fw's

They're weak against armies that can get in your face without being able to shoot at them first (so DoA, drop pods, demon-heavy armies, etc.), and against armies that can spam vehicles harder than you can spam anti-tank (which means your firewarriors don't get to do much shooting until it's too late).

The way GW has done it in the past, as an ALL shooty army has made tau alternatingly overpowered and underpowered, with little middle ground. Newer codices have been moving away from "this is the one style this army does", more towards "any army can do anything reasonably well".

Hopefully this means in the next tau codex that their shooting will only get a little better, but that they'll finally have some real CC options. The whole "I table your entire army unless you manage to get a single unit into CC in which case I utterly lose" thing the tau have been doing all these years is pretty stupid.

I have a marine bike army that is a rough match up for Tau.

The bike army is not an assault army, its a short range shooting army. It packs enough melta and PG to take down crisis suits and tanks. T5(4) marines are tough enough so I will still assault a squad of fire warriors when I can.

Pretty much most things can beat Tau its now the oldest Codex as any of the older Codices have had updates via White dwarf.

Mind you Eldar came out only a little later.

I really like Tau but they're so easy to beat. Any mission they are at a disadvantage.

Use heavy flamers, melta weapons and get in combat.

I think they are probably weakest against GKs. The Stormbolters at s5 BS 4, the Psy Autocannons and the Forceweapons to kill battlesuits. I dont see how you'd lose

obsidianaura wrote:I think they are probably weakest against GKs. The Stormbolters at s5 BS 4, the Psy Autocannons and the Forceweapons to kill battlesuits. I dont see how you'd lose

Whats odd is that many more Tau players are showing up because how good they can be vs GK.

GK have very few long range shooting units. These are their riflemen. Broadside teams can quickly neutralize these AV 12 units, which then limits the GK player to a 24" range on nearly all their guns.
When you start adding crisis suits with missle pods to take out rhinos and plamsa guns to kill the expensive cost of the GKs themselves, it's not that bad of a matchup.

I think a well-designed Tau list should stand a 50% of beating the standard GK list. While normally tooling you list to counter another one give better odds, that's as good as it gets vs. GK.

I agree tau are one of the better match ups vs gk, so are guard and DE (in non kp games),

Well what GKs do is they take a Tech Marine with Servo-Skulls, a model with Psychic Communion perferably a GKGM, Several Squads of GKSS and dreadknight/Riflemen Dreads or 2

The Servo Skulls deploy close to the Tau lines (but not so close as to be removed by tau movement.)

The Tech Marine bolsters defenses on some ruins and the Rifleman Dreads set up there gaining a 3+ Cover save, stands by to repair any damage if needed.

Then Strike Squads deepstrike on the servo-skulls and will land safely. And then cut into the Tau with with stormbolters and psycannons.

You can flank with your dreadknights and get into combat as fast as possible using grand strat

Is this really gonna turn into another gk thread? :(

Tau struggles (sometimes to the point of autolose) against lists which are fast and/or provide very large number of threats in a small timeframe. Bikes, jump infantry, fast Monstrous creatures, massed Deep strike, Beasts, Ork boyz hordes, those are bane of most Tau lists. Also, almost anything with FNP are pain, as Tau has no insta-killing large blasts or close combat weapons.

GK is probably amongst the easiest Marine codex for Tau to deal with. Things like Force weapons or Cleansing flame are meaningless against Tau.

I dusted my Tau off the other day tried playing against orks and didn't do well. Couldn't deal with the KFF and was in combat from turn 2 :(.

Force weapons are good against battlesuits aren't they? Which is what most "competitive " builds of Tau use these days.

I do see what your point about GKs having more stuff than they need to kill Tau making them more points than regular marines..

GK also have the shrouding available which is very useful against tau weapons. Plus Deepstriking units only have to deal with one round of fire before getting into combat.

I think Tau are strong against necron though.

I think Tau are strong against necron though.

My personal experience as a Necron player has shown the opposite. While I've only played against Tau Twice so far with the new dex, I've found that Reanimation Protocols seems to give them more heartache than most other armies. Wraiths are too quick, and can't be shutdown fast enough before they get to Broadside/Crisis suits before it's to late. Once the Railguns are gone, I find there is very little threat left to my tanks on the board. Most everything becomes cleanup at that point.

IMO, unless there is a large difference between degree of Skill/lists, is that the Tau player really needs first turn against Necrons, and needs to make it count. This can be harder with things like Solar Pulses. Yes, Tau Suits have Acute Senses, but time and time again that has shown not to help that much. Tau Really have to push their long range firepower early on, because once the Tau are in the Necrons 24' Bubble, things are going to go downhill fast unless you've managed to cripple them. 24' may not be huge, but it's pretty easy to get there by turn 2. Wraiths will also be in combat by now as well.

obsidianaura wrote:I dusted my Tau off the other day tried playing against orks and didn't do well. Couldn't deal with the KFF and was in combat from turn 2 :(.

Force weapons are good against battlesuits aren't they? Which is what most "competitive " builds of Tau use these days.

I do see what your point about GKs having more stuff than they need to kill Tau making them more points than regular marines..

GK also have the shrouding available which is very useful against tau weapons. Plus Deepstriking units only have to deal with one round of fire before getting into combat.

I think Tau are strong against necron though.

Force weapons kill battlesuits quickly, but almost anything beats them in close combat anyway, so it's no biggie. In fact, Tau often want to lose close combat as quickly as possibly.

I have not played against Necrons, but old Necron codex was said to be very difficult opponent for Tau (unless they relied too much on Monoliths...) because Tau has no easy & convenient way of disposing large number of Necron Warriors. Can't imagine how that is improved with new 'Cron 'Dex.

Trukk spam boyz seems like it would do the trick.

obsidianaura wrote:Well what GKs do is they take a Tech Marine with Servo-Skulls, a model with Psychic Communion perferably a GKGM, Several Squads of GKSS and dreadknight/Riflemen Dreads or 2

The Servo Skulls deploy close to the Tau lines (but not so close as to be removed by tau movement.)

The Tech Marine bolsters defenses on some ruins and the Rifleman Dreads set up there gaining a 3+ Cover save, stands by to repair any damage if needed.

Then Strike Squads deepstrike on the servo-skulls and will land safely. And then cut into the Tau with with stormbolters and psycannons.

You can flank with your dreadknights and get into combat as fast as possible using grand strat

Here is the thing. I have not seen a competitive GK list with dreadknights or Servo Skulls.
Don't Tau have markerlights to get rid of cover? It seems they would be the one army capable to handling the dreads.
Stormbolters and psycannons deep striking are not going to do all that much to a set of suits with drones. Remember, the psycannons are assault 2 on the move. That means that even 10 strike marines dropping in is going to have 20 shots. You can expect to make 10 saves on your squad if hes using psybolt ammo. I'm sure it will hurt, but it wont wipe out your suits and drones. Your return fire with plasma, on the other hand, will.
All that is elementary, however, as most GKs don't bring those either.

With GK armies your going to face one of three builds
* Henchmen spam with Psybacks
* Purifier spam
* Draigowing
Tau have the tools to handle all 3 of these.

Here is why you don't see Tau in tourneys. While you can have a good matchup vs. 50% of the people you will be playing, you will have a poor matchup vs the other 50%. Unless you get GK every round, a Tau army is not one to take to a tourney. (Although I would consider bringing one just so I could stick it to any GKs i did play)

To put it simply, Tau's biggest weakness (coming from a Tau player) is target saturation. A single squad of TH/SS terminators is bothersome, but easy to work around. 5 infantry squads of Guardsman in trouble, because we can't shoot them all before they close.

The less my opponent has on the field, the more I can concentrate my fire, and the more room I have to maneuver. You want to choke the Tau? Cut off their ability to maneuver.

Also, putting your rifle dreads in cover will not help against any competent Tau player. The pathfinders will remove that cover save.

A bad Tau player will sit back and shoot. A good Tau player will lure you close by pretending to sit back and shoot, and then rip you apart from the flanks when you take the bait. A good Tau player is crafty, be prepared for that.

Get rid of their markerlight support.

And the most obvious tip, if your opponent is stupid enough to bring an Etherial, kill it IMMEDIATELY.

maceria wrote:
And the most obvious tip, if your opponent is stupid enough to bring an Etherial, kill it IMMEDIATELY.

I've actually seen a tournament-winning Tau list with an Ethereal. When he is put with a Broadside team with Shield drones, he is not very vulnerable unless the entire Tau position is compromised, in which case the battle is probably lost anyway. One of the Tau weaknesses is morale, it's annoying when your expensive Crisis team runs after it loses a 15pt Frisbee, and Ethereal goes long way fixing that.

Tau are a weaker army because every other codex has a take all comers build that is very effective against them, and if some one builds with tau in mind most codexs can just beat them. With that said some very popular tourny builds,for GKs in particular, fall right into the tau's wheelhouse and they can really clean up. Also am a believer that the biggest deciding factor in a competative game is experience with your list vis-a-vis your opponent's codex. tau and tyrannid in the hands of a good general are hard just because players are not used to seeing them and often misunderstand the keys to the game.

I play Tau quite a lot.. If Im playing a DP army or what not... I just simply castle in a corner, Keep my suits out of Melta range and sit back and blast some shyte for around 3 turns... Then when the fish come on from reserve.... Scoot around trying to get a Objective or two.

Ill do the same against DE or Orks.... They are too fast.

Tau are on the back foot most games so a defensive style works best to stop the onslaught.... Piranha as speed bumps etc blocking etc...

I think its funny that people dont play Tau because their codex is dated..... They just take some talent to win with. Like DE you need some skill to fly around mach 3 with a tinfoil boat... They arent forgiving like the almighty gheymarines... You make a mistake and you lose the game.... To me that is what excited me to play Tau.... Its not a GK auto win situation most time. You can play the game of your life as Tau and get a Draw.... And it feels damn great.

Milisim wrote:I think its funny that people dont play Tau because their codex is dated..... They just take some talent to win with. Like DE you need some skill to fly around mach 3 with a tinfoil boat... They arent forgiving like the almighty gheymarines... You make a mistake and you lose the game.... To me that is what excited me to play Tau.... Its not a GK auto win situation most time. You can play the game of your life as Tau and get a Draw.... And it feels damn great.

There needs to be more people like you that play this game.

Worst case scenario=DoA BA. Even if Tau go 1st and get 2 turns of shooting against a mass satuaration of t4 3+ armor 5++ librarian cover 4+ fnp 4++ cover from turbo boosting scout bikes with t5 3++ socer 4+fnp the outlook is real grim.

Tabled tau both times I ran into them in a tournement setting wiith ba. It was just an unfortunate mismatch. Broadsides were a horrible waste of points when used against assault marines, and the massive number of fast moving marines ended up locking most of the tau in cc by turn 2.

Milisim wrote:You can play the game of your life as Tau and get a Draw.... And it feels damn great.

YMMV. I played Tau a lot, and got a few wins and draws under my belt, but it can get a bit boring after a while. With some armies, you win some and you lose some, but with Tau, you tend to do more drawing/losing, and if all you're facing are netlists or lists that Tau simply cannot face no matter what, then it saps your morale to the point where clawing a draw isn't so much "That was a great game, and really close!" as "Wow, I managed to only just claw a draw yet again... how amazing... *yawn*".

Don't get me wrong, not losing has its good points, but it eventually gets boring and you start to feel like you're missing out. The odd win here and there can liven things up, but if your meta doesn't give you the chance, then it can be a herculean task just to bring your Tau with you on gaming night, and not a different army.

Playing Tau for the rest of your life and getting draws feels great to start with, but the novelty can soon wear off.

Tau is in a weird place within the meta.

Thing is, they are actually pretty good when facing the Mech lists that tend to dominate the top-tier of competitive play. Railguns, cover-save stripping marker lights, and jump-shoot-jump battlesuits with meta-weapons and pseudo auto-cannons, plus plasma out the wazoo to kill the marines once you've popped their Razorbacks. Lots of good options for tackling Mech builds.

The problem is that Tau fold to other, less popular, but still relevant builds. Builds like DOA Blood Angels, Drop Pod Vulkan, all-bike Nilla, drop-dread assault, etc. Those DSing lists that slam down all at once and don't let them run away effectively before they get caught and wiped out.

What's odd is that those lists that really give Tau headaches... don't do so hot against the Mech lists that the Tau are good at handling.

So, odd kinda rock-paper-scissors pops up, and outside of Mech Tau don't have enough good match ups to really be a viable choice. Being a hard counter to the very top of the top tier won't get you very far if you fold to the 2nd tier just for showing up.

I feel I learn a lot more about how to play Tau by reading about armies that have won against the Tau rather than lost to them. This is a good thread so far.

Gotta agree with post before mine. I'm new to playing tau really and have had a difficult time playing demons, glad to know its DSing not me, and nids in a objective game.

Haven't had a chance to play other army's yet really though

Panzerboy26 wrote:Tau is in a weird place within the meta.

Thing is, they are actually pretty good when facing the Mech lists that tend to dominate the top-tier of competitive play. Railguns, cover-save stripping marker lights, and jump-shoot-jump battlesuits with meta-weapons and pseudo auto-cannons, plus plasma out the wazoo to kill the marines once you've popped their Razorbacks. Lots of good options for tackling Mech builds.

The problem is that Tau fold to other, less popular, but still relevant builds. Builds like DOA Blood Angels, Drop Pod Vulkan, all-bike Nilla, drop-dread assault, etc. Those DSing lists that slam down all at once and don't let them run away effectively before they get caught and wiped out.

What's odd is that those lists that really give Tau headaches... don't do so hot against the Mech lists that the Tau are good at handling.

So, odd kinda rock-paper-scissors pops up, and outside of Mech Tau don't have enough good match ups to really be a viable choice. Being a hard counter to the very top of the top tier won't get you very far if you fold to the 2nd tier just for showing up.

This is pretty much the truth.

The meta has shifted away from assault armies and has gone more to the shooting armies with the latest codexes.

Tau do very well against shooting armies like Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, and Necrons.

Where they struggle is against the fast moving assault armies. There are less of them around these days, but when you go up against one Tau have a very hard time.

In 5th edition?

All of them. Tau don't have the advantage against any army currently existing within the confines of 5th edition's rules and missions.