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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/08 20:09:25
Subject: gamers and depression
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Infiltrating Prowler
wocka flocka rocka shocka
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a bit of an old article, but I find it relevant to today, and felt it may be sommething to share with dakka.
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/11045_Gamers_and_Depression.html
"A lot of highly-intelligent people are prone to depressions, and gamers seem particularly so. Someone recently theorized that this is one reason why games like World of Warcraft are so popular and so incredibly addictive for our people. They provide a form of social interaction while constantly giving the player a feeling of accomplishment, satisfying all sorts of needs in a typical depressive..." from Being Ted Knutson
Ted Knutson is a smart man. He touched on an issue that is sadly very prevalent in our gaming culture. Depression is a fact of life for many players, and quite a few don't even know they have it. Everyone from the top pros down to the most casual can be afflicted with this disease. It's an unfortunate truth that people who have a propensity for this kind of recreation and/or lifestyle seem to also have an extra susceptibility to this illness. The hope is to raise awareness of the symptoms of the disease, and the strategies for beating it.
Yes illness. Disease. Depression is definitely these things, not imaginary or laziness as some believe. Depression is an ailment of the mind. Some ignorant people, generally depressed folk themselves, have said depression is simply a matter of willpower. Some believe it to be an excuse to hang around the house all day, playing hooky and having fun. To these people, I suggest asking someone having a depressive episode if they're enjoying themselves. The answer might surprise you.
Actually, the major characteristic of depression is not enjoying life, of not deriving pleasure from what should give it. When some people think of depression, they think of sadness or grief. This generally isn't so. Grief, say from a loved one dying, is a logical response to tragedy. Furthermore, the feelings of sadness fade over time. Depression is recurring, and has nothing to do with logic.
I've heard it described that depression is like living black and white in a color world, and I think that's a pretty good description. Things are stark and absolute. Life is less enjoyable, interesting, and especially pleasing. Depression does not have to be negative feelings - a lot of the time, it's feeling nothing at all. Things like sex, family, even play go from satisfying and pleasurable to a chore, or a burden. The sufferer knows they're supposed to enjoy the things they used to, and they're ashamed they don't. Shame is not good for one's mood, which certainly doesn't help.
Remember Ferris Beuhler's Day Off? Ferris skipped school and had a blast. His buddy Cam did exactly the same stuff and couldn't enjoy it one iota. It was pretty heavy handed in the movie, but Cameron was depressed and his lack of being able to enjoy the things others did was a big symptom. Have you had periods of days or weeks where nothing was fun anymore? You can't make sense of it because it's not rational; it's a disease!
Do you blame the diabetic for a faulty pancreas? God, I hope not. Like the diabetic, part of your body does not function right, which in this case is your brain. Also like the diabetic, your quality of life does not have to suffer if you're diligent about due care.
This is the part where I wish I could explain the exact origins of depression, and how knowing its causes and effects on the brain has given modern medicine enough for a cure. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened yet. No one yet fully understands where depression comes from. There is almost certainly a genetic component to susceptibility. Sometimes life events can cause episodes, although the exact same event can have far different effects on different people. Hormones play an active role; a body going through puberty or after a woman gives birth can be rife with emotional issues. Generally speaking, it's a combination of many factors, which is why the root origin is so hard to pin down. Luckily, regardless of the causes of depression, there are actions anyone can do to help themselves. These are actions to take when you know you are feeling down. Only you knows what form your depression takes, so you're the one who must be vigilant about your care. It's tough, very tough, but it gets easier with practice.
Talk to someone you know and trust:
If there's one thing to take from this article, it's that depression is a real disease, not made up and not a character flaw. As such, there should be no shame in admitting you're going through a rough time. Tell someone you've known for years, whether it be a special relative or close friend, a clergy, whomever. There is no way the person should judge you. Instead, they'll be there for you when you're feeling down at that moment, and in any future episodes. And if they can't be available, odds are they'll let you know.
Telling someone how you're feeling is so beneficial for the path of recovery. Depression is a ridiculously internal disease. It's insidious because there are no obvious physical signs (like gambling addiction). What you can do is to make it external by talking to the people you care about. The support system is critical.
Talk to someone you don't know and trust:
Therapy can be hugely important to a great many people. Having a safe space, where you can get unbiased feedback from someone not in your day to day life is huge. A qualified therapist can also answer questions beyond the scope of this article, on topics like medication or CBT.
That said, it's important to find a therapist that's a good fit. Counselors are just people, who have their own style of doing things. If you're with someone and you're not feeling it, you have every right in the world to find someone new to talk to. This is always about what you need.
Medication:
I'm deeply unqualified to talk about prescriptions and drug therapy. In that vein, there's only one study I can share. The study found that people who didn't believe in the effectiveness of anti-depressants had far less to none of the positive effects of the drugs, and those that were believers had far greater benefit. So take that as you want, but for serious inquiries, speak with a psychiatrist or primary care physician.
Get outside:
As mentioned, depression is an internal condition. You need to go against your impulses of staying inside, playing games (see below), or whatever else. When you recognize that you're having a depressive episode, do whatever you have to change your surroundings. Taking a walk (and exercise in general) is excellent. Go to a bookstore or coffee shop and surround yourself with active, social people. Everyone craves human interaction, but the depressed person literally needs it.
Take action:
If you're stuck in your pajamas all day, the mere act of getting dressed can be therapeutic. You can start an art project, write in a journal, walk the dog; anything with some purpose. The afflicted have their thought patterns stuck in this void of no feeling and low interest. Conscious action is needed to break the cycle to get your life and moods back on track.
Let's say a man notices he's having trouble sleeping and losing appetite. Previous projects just seem like not worth the trouble. The kids want to play with him, but he just doesn't have the energy, even though the man usually loves to play with his children. This time though, he just wants to stay in bed and sleep all day.
Ideally, this man will recognize he's having a depressive episode and understand his instincts are not healthy. He, through some effort, showers and gets dressed. He then tells his wife, whom he sincerely trusts, that's he having a tough emotional time at the moment and he'd appreciate the support. Wife understands and decides on an impromptu grocery shopping trip, which the man agrees to.
At the grocery store the man decides to get a new cereal for the family. As he's mulling over the choices, he notices he's feeling a lot better. Later, putting away the groceries, he notices he's feeling better still. At the end of the day he plays with his kids, enjoys it, and sleeps a sound sleep.
The above scenario was fantasy, but it doesn't have to be. The necessary steps are recognizing the signs of depression and then taking action to deal with it.
Which brings us to the particular issue of gaming and gamers. Having talked with an awful lot of players over the years, it seems to me that there is simply a higher incidence of depression in our community. No one I've shared this view with has disagreed.
Why this is no one knows for sure, just like no knows why people get depression for sure. There are some speculations however. One is still the genetic component. People with higher intelligence seem to be more depression prone on average, as well as more likely to pair up with other smart, depressed people. So kids with smart folk are more likely to have the depression gene. Kids with smart folks are also more likely to play games.
Another is the much-discussed lack of social skills of Magic players. This would cause isolation and therefore a lack of support network, in addition to lower self-esteem. This idea has a lot of merit, although odds are it amplifies what's already there. It's certainly true that outgoing social people suffer from depression, and vice versa. Introversion and social awkwardness is not a guarantee.
Yet another possibility is just latent co-existing characteristics. That is to say, people attracted to the gaming community also have depressive tendencies. It's not cause and effect, rather it's a pattern of concurrence. Mr. Knutson believes gaming has draws for the typical depressive; this might also be true. Certainly, it keeps them here.
In the end, no one knows the whole picture. What is certain is that gamers have unique risks and unique solutions, compared to the population at large. Understanding both helps us a great deal.
From a solitary standpoint, gamers have a lot going for them. The internet is a great tool for avoiding boredom and getting a competitive thrill. Pogo.com, MSNZone.com, Magic Online, Party Poker, all are websites where you can sit in your comfy chair and play games to your heart's content. Unfortunately, this is a very double-edged sword.
Personally, I play worse when my mind is elsewhere. That means for someone suffering a low ebb, their skills deteriorate. That means they're more likely to lose, which doesn't feel good, so they repeat the process until they win, or just as likely, get angry and frustrated and upset. In reality, the person is looking for the positive feelings of a win because they're unhappy. But winning a game, or winning a pot, is a really artificial and ineffective way to go about this. When you base your emotional state on an event you can't control, especially when you're already in a bad place, well that's a recipe for trouble.
Instead, try to utilize the strategies from above. Get out of the house, and do something that doesn't involve the possibility of losing. If you must play a game, do it in real life with real people, and play for zero stakes. The social aspect has to be the most valuable prize.
Speaking of real people and competition, quite often a gamer's social network consists of very competitive people. This in itself is not a bad thing; often a person needs to be surrounded by winning-conscious people to improve. But when winning is not as important as just feeling good about life, these competitive people can make things worse. It's very possible that this group will see your emotional state as a vulnerability, rather than an opportunity to help a friend. If that happens, then you might be rife for exploitation, in the sense of doing something you'll regret. So much drug use and crime is done by a person looking to feel better, offered by people who had no interest in anyone but themselves. Simply put, when you're depressed you are vulnerable.
Finally, on the topic of vulnerability is the ultimate risk for a depressed individual, and the friends and family of the depressed person. It's this risk that turns depression from a disabling disease into a deadly one.
***Special note on suicide:
The most popular suicide spot in the world is the Golden Gate Bridge. Many people have jumped off this bridge with the desire to end their life, and most succeed. Occasionally, someone does survive the attempt, and when that happens, they talk to some doctors and therapists. A medical practitioner will ask what the jumper's thoughts were the moment they stepped over the edge. Invariably, it will be "I've changed my mind!"
Suicide and suicidal thoughts are no joke. Statistically speaking, you or someone you know has contemplated killing one's self.
If you are considering suicide, I'm sorry. You are in a great deal of pain. While I probably don't know you, I will still mourn you. I will miss you. You have other people in your life who will do the same.
From time to time, everyone will have a self-destructive thought. It's called the Thanatos impulse and while it's fairly normal, it's still a good indication of your mood. Recognize a thought like this when it occurs, and try not to put yourself in the situation that triggers these negative feelings.
On the other hand, if you have a plan, or have acquired an implement, or anything else that means more than just an occasional idle thought, listen carefully. You are in danger. You have a sickness that is altering your perception of the world. Be vigilant and recognize the dangers you face, or your illness could be fatal. Tell your friends, family, a counselor, anyone who will listen to how you're feeling.
Friends, your buddy is in danger. He has a disease that could be fatal. Your engagement could save a life. Talk to your friend. If you think he is suicidal, Ask Him. There is no shame in this. If your buddy says no, fantastic. Hopefully you can talk about why you had concerns. If he say yes, talk to him. Tell your friend how you honestly feel about the situation. Do not threaten, intimidate, coerce, logic, or any other method you have to force them to change their minds. It probably won't work, especially on any permanent basis. What will happen is that they'll know not to come to you with their problems in the future, which is the exact opposite of what you want. Respect their feelings, and hopefully they will respect yours.
If necessary, if you sense an immediate danger, call the police. Take the initiative and don't worry about being wrong. It's by far the lesser mistake.
***
The gaming community is exactly that, a community. While we may combat each other on the playing field, when one of us suffers we all do. Depression is a fact of life for many players, but that doesn't mean they have to do it alone. No one ever deserves to feel as bad as depressed people can, and it's only through ignorance they will. You as a bystander or a victim have the knowledge to help a person, a person who shares the same interests you do. Make a connection, help yourself and your community. We'll all be better for it.
For anybody looking for additional resources, I recommend Feeling Good by Dr. David Burns. It has some excellent information on personal therapies and actions, as well as an extremely comprehensive look at anti-depression medications.
Please do not hesitate to ask any questions. Best of luck to all.
-Noah Weil
NWeil@hotmail.com
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/08 20:10:01
captain fantastic wrote: Seems like this thread is all that's left of Remilia Scarlet (the poster).
wait, what? Σ(・□・;) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/08 20:15:03
Subject: gamers and depression
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Fanatic with Madcap Mushrooms
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Honestly painting really keeps me away from depression as it gives me something to do. I only get depressed when I am idle so I try to mosh play games and entertain lady friends as much as possible. This not only helps fight my depression but supercharges my ego aswell.
Used to take pills for it when I was younger but I realized music and wargames are better for you and in the end cheaper than pills
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/08 20:21:43
Subject: gamers and depression
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Infiltrating Prowler
wocka flocka rocka shocka
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Johnny-Crass wrote:Honestly painting really keeps me away from depression as it gives me something to do. I only get depressed when I am idle so I try to mosh play games and entertain lady friends as much as possible. This not only helps fight my depression but supercharges my ego aswell.
Used to take pills for it when I was younger but I realized music and wargames are better for you and in the end cheaper than pills
so true. sadly. this is an issue that's far too common and often overlooked entirely.
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captain fantastic wrote: Seems like this thread is all that's left of Remilia Scarlet (the poster).
wait, what? Σ(・□・;) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/08 20:24:18
Subject: Re:gamers and depression
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Kid_Kyoto
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When I get sad, I stop being sad and be AWESOME instead.
Seriously. It's the only way to stop being depressed. Pills don't help. There's no magic cure except getting off your ass, getting out in the world, and doing things that make you happy.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/08 20:29:42
Subject: Re:gamers and depression
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Infiltrating Prowler
wocka flocka rocka shocka
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daedalus wrote:When I get sad, I stop being sad and be AWESOME instead.
Seriously. It's the only way to stop being depressed. Pills don't help. There's no magic cure except getting off your ass, getting out in the world, and doing things that make you happy.
it's good you found a way to do that, but you must remember that it isn't easy to do that. there are times where I don't even want to get out of bed and face the world, so I get ready for work and head out to face the world, despite how I feel. a reason why this problem is so predominant is because everyone wants magic cures for everything.
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captain fantastic wrote: Seems like this thread is all that's left of Remilia Scarlet (the poster).
wait, what? Σ(・□・;) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/08 20:43:27
Subject: gamers and depression
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Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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It's not that we want magic cures, it's just while in a depressed state, nothing can motivate us. I find the only thing that can motivate me while I'm in a rut is a natural rush of adrenaline. Which also sucks because then I can't paint....
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40k 7th Edition Record
11 Games played
5 Games Won |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/08 20:44:17
Subject: Re:gamers and depression
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Kid_Kyoto
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Oh, absolutely. I spent from about the age of 17 on up to about the age of 26 being depressed, so I know exactly what you mean. I'm almost 28 now, and finally loving life. Forcing myself to get out and do things and be sociable was really the only way I could dig my way out. I still get pissed off/down from time to time, but who doesn't?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/08 20:48:43
Subject: gamers and depression
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Infiltrating Prowler
wocka flocka rocka shocka
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Thaanos wrote:It's not that we want magic cures, it's just while in a depressed state, nothing can motivate us. I find the only thing that can motivate me while I'm in a rut is a natural rush of adrenaline. Which also sucks because then I can't paint....
I wound up having to take a gak ton of vitamins and changing my sleeping habits and everything, and still I feel like hiding away from the world outside. Automatically Appended Next Post: daedalus wrote:Oh, absolutely. I spent from about the age of 17 on up to about the age of 26 being depressed, so I know exactly what you mean. I'm almost 28 now, and finally loving life. Forcing myself to get out and do things and be sociable was really the only way I could dig my way out. I still get pissed off/down from time to time, but who doesn't?
sometimes you gotta say 'feth it" and push yourself to get out.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/08 20:50:34
captain fantastic wrote: Seems like this thread is all that's left of Remilia Scarlet (the poster).
wait, what? Σ(・□・;) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/08 22:29:34
Subject: gamers and depression
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Fixture of Dakka
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The whole reason I ever touched 40k was so my little dudes could chop people up. I didn't even care if I won, it was therapeutic to imagine my guys dismembering theirs. That being said, I've been down, I've been up, I've been ecstatic and wacked out of my mind and comatose on the floor in a pit of misery. Surround yourself with people who get you and are supportive, eat well, sleep regularly and try to have one or two back up hobbies. Something will peak your interest more than other things, even at your deepest, and it's important to be able to let yourself off the hook when you need to. @JC: And as far as entertaining ladies (or dudes, as the case maybe), that can go really well or really, REALLY bad when you're depressed. Nothing like crying alone in the bathroom while the other 6 people enjoy the festivities in the next room  Worst night of my life. @dae: Pills helped me insomuch as giving me a clear head to work out enough of my gak to make a difference. I still feel like I could benefit from them sometimes, but they absolutely kill my sex drive.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/02/08 22:34:38
Worship me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/08 23:36:10
Subject: Re:gamers and depression
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Bryan Ansell
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I would agree that wargaming and computer gaming aids ones sense of well being and sense of accomplishment. It also depends on luck to some degree, which sufferers can explain to themselves.
It appears to be a fine line between being a lazy assed mofo to being depressed. I think there would be a lot more people diagnosed with depression if they werent seen as malingerers or just lazy.
It has taken me 20 years to get to the point where I have been told that, yes, I am actually depressed.
Without medication, I wouldnt be able to make controlled decisions such as when I brush my teeth. Yes I cleaned my teeth for the last 20 or so years, but it was a chore and not in a getting kids to do it chore, it was a a proper, painful exercise that meant doing something positive. Positivity is something that properly scare me sensless. I didnt brush my teeth becuase I had to or becuase it was a mundane routine, I just did it. It is still...less.......... than a daily routine. It's hard to explain.
Looking forwards, medication has helped, no end, really, I can't praise pharmaceutical companies enough. Without SSRI's I wouldnt be able to make positive decisions about even my day to day life. The lack of chemical imbalance in my brain is enabling me to start seeing through a business idea that I have had for a number of years. I have done more in the last day than I ever would have accomplished 5 or 6 years ago when I first had the idea. Even the spectre of failure isn't any more than an obstacle now. Failure used to be a big lead weight it used to bathe me with its light, like a sun (thats the best way to explain it).
Medication really can make a difference.
Therapy is also a great help, really simple things can help. Making a list and checking it off when things are complete. My lst diary had to do lists for everyday. Setting targets and accomplishing them makes failures rays weaker.
Being aware of triggers and negative thoughts. Its almost counter intuitive to embrace negative thoughts, but deconstructing them helps. Negative thoughts do not have to be 'bad'.
Talking to others helps especially family and friends. My wife really had no idea I was depressed even though she suffered from a form of it earlier in her life. I won that conversation!
As for the extra good bits. @Cannerus - My medication has a great side effect - My wife approves!
Really - Life isn't all doom and gloom when you know what you suffer from.
I have always been interested in sci fi and fanatasy for Wargaming is a logical progression from my perspective. Little army mens doing battle on a table. I steill make pew pew noises and my models bounce around in the best action film slow mo style before being removed as casualties.
Wargaming always seesm to attract outsiders, Smart people, geeks, social outcasts, the depressed. I wonder if a study should be made, if any data either way could be extrapolated.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/02/09 00:03:19
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/08 23:48:13
Subject: gamers and depression
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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It is also possible to be depressed, play wargames, and not be intelligent at all.
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/08 23:55:21
Subject: gamers and depression
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Infiltrating Prowler
wocka flocka rocka shocka
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Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:The whole reason I ever touched 40k was so my little dudes could chop people up. I didn't even care if I won, it was therapeutic to imagine my guys dismembering theirs. That being said, I've been down, I've been up, I've been ecstatic and wacked out of my mind and comatose on the floor in a pit of misery. Surround yourself with people who get you and are supportive, eat well, sleep regularly and try to have one or two back up hobbies. Something will peak your interest more than other things, even at your deepest, and it's important to be able to let yourself off the hook when you need to.
.
I was afraid I was the only one who got a kick out of little dudes fighting eachother to the death. when I first got into the hobby, I used my imagination to visualize them gettinbg haccked to pieces. Automatically Appended Next Post: Mr. Burning wrote:I would agree that wargaming and computer gaming aids ones sense of well being and sense of accomplishment. It also depends on luck to some degree, which sufferers can explain to themselves.
It appears to be a fine line between being a lazy assed mofo to being depressed. I think there would be a lot more people diagnosed with depression if they werent seen as malingerers or just lazy.
It has taken me 20 years to get to the point where I have been told that, yes, I am actually depressed.
Despite being able to hold full time work and have a family, every day was a struggle, everything was hard, form getting out of bed to bothering to shower and shave and brush my teeth, to eating, really, its a fething effort. I worked but had no joy, even my family was proving to be a struggle. I would say that, really, if you can get out of bed and find life more than tolerable you have not been depressed.
Existance is tolerable, barely.
Without medication, I wouldnt be able to make controlled decisions such as when I brush my teeth. Yes I cleaned my teeth for the last 20 or so years, but it was a chore and not in a getting kids to do it chore, it was a a proper, painful exercise that meant doing something positive. Positivity is something that properly scare me sensless. I didnt brush my teeth becuase I had to or becuase it was a mundane routine, I just did it. It is still...less.......... than a daily routine. It's hard to explain.
Looking forwards, medication has helped, no end, really, I can't praise pharmaceutical companies enough. Without SSRI's I wouldnt be able to make positive decisions about even my day to day life. The lack of chemical imbalance in my brain is enabling me to start seeing through a business idea that I have had for a number of years. I have done more in the last day than I ever would have accomplished 5 or 6 years ago when I first had the idea. Even the spectre of failure isn't any more than an obstacle now. Failure used to be a big lead weight it used to bathe me with its light, like a sun (thats the best way to explain it).
Medication really can make a difference.
Therapy is also a great help, really simple things can help. Making a list and checking it off when things are complete. My lst diary had to do lists for everyday. Setting targets and accomplishing them makes failures rays weaker.
Being aware of triggers and negative thoughts. Its almost counter intuitive to embrace negative thoughts, but deconstructing them helps. Negative thoughts do not have to be 'bad'.
Talking to others helps especially family and friends. My wife really had no idea I was depressed even though she suffered from a form of it earlier in her life. I won that conversation!
As for the extra good bits. @Cannerus - My medication has a great side effect - My wife approves!
Really - Life isn't all doom and gloom when you know what you suffer from.
I hated medication because it always had it's side effects. for example, I always had splitting headaches on zoloft, prozac always made me irritable, and citalopram always made me sleepy. fou're in control of it.rom what you're saying, it looks like y Automatically Appended Next Post: Ahtman wrote:It is also possible to be depressed, play wargames, and not be intelligent at all.
like you? no, just kidding, but seriously, that was kinda uncalled for.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/02/09 00:01:16
captain fantastic wrote: Seems like this thread is all that's left of Remilia Scarlet (the poster).
wait, what? Σ(・□・;) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/10 03:55:25
Subject: Re:gamers and depression
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Mr. Burning wrote:Without medication, I wouldnt be able to make controlled decisions such as when I brush my teeth. Yes I cleaned my teeth for the last 20 or so years, but it was a chore and not in a getting kids to do it chore, it was a a proper, painful exercise that meant doing something positive. Positivity is something that properly scare me sensless. I didnt brush my teeth becuase I had to or becuase it was a mundane routine, I just did it. It is still...less.......... than a daily routine. It's hard to explain.
This bit is so very true, at least for me. Basic hygiene comes easily to some people, but to some people who suffer from depression, it can seem less like basic hygiene and more like an optional activity or even, as stated, an intensely rigorous chore.
I have days where I simply can't face getting in the shower. I sometimes go for days without brushing my teeth, and only start when my a tooth starts to ache or I get an ulcer, simply because I can't stand the pain, but using pain a motivator is terrible in itself, I shoul;dn't have to wait until my body protests, but I have to. Some people will say that since I acknowledge it as a problem, I can obviously remedy it, but it's far from that easy; yes, acknowledging you have a problem is sometimes a key step in righting it, like alcholoism, but I can't remedy it no matter how much I want to, my body and my brain won't allow it, which is a very difficult thing to try and get across to people.
Essentially, there are times (some frequent, some not so much) where I know something has to get done, like washing up, or making a telephone call, and I want to do it, but I can't make myself; sometimes it's something as simple as getting up off the settee (couch); whatever it is, part of my brain recognises I have to do it and want to do it, but the rest of it won't allow movement. A week or two ago I needed to make a phone call, and even with coaching to try and do it, I couldn't; the phone was in my lap but I couldn't bear to touch it to the point where i'd had enough, shook it onto the floor and left. I've stood staring at a load of washing up that I needed to put back (already washed and dry) for over 5 straight minutes before I could even touch the first object. It hurts to do it, but it hurts so much more when nobody understands why, and nobody realises that I physically cannot do it.
Going back to hygiene, I get the urge to brush my teeth, but I physically cannot make a move for the brush, I need an incentive to do it, and that incentive is usually negative, pain in this case.
I've half managed to control showering simply by allowing myself to listen to music and being unrestricted by the time I take. Music has played such a large part in this that without it, I don't know what would've happened. It seems weird, but in some ways, I owe my life and wellbeing to Slipknot (ironic, I know), Hammerfall, and more recently Within Temptation, simply because they have kept me from the brink and held me in check. There are more neutral incentives like my dislike of people seeing me in an unwashed state, but the main thing that gets me in the shower is the promise of music.
I just haven't found an incentive to do much else, though. I do the washing up if there is literally nothing clean left, or if i'm in the mood to do it, but otherwise it physically repulses me. I'll wash the clothes if I need clean stuff, but usually not otherwise. Only earlier, I did the vacuuming simply because the vacuum we have looks like some sort of futuristic gun instead of being a heavy behemoth of a thing we used to have which honestly wouldn't look out of place with a diesel engine duct taped to the back of it and being used on a farm.
I've got some things I use to escape, like my writing (which isn't really working as of late) and my wargames and PC games allowing me to slaughter swathes of fictional enemies (I like the Custom Battle version of Medieval 2: TW simply for the bridge map; I line up loads of ranged units in front of an army of scottish peasants, wait for them to reach the bridge and unload into the bottlenecked army because it allows me to vent my frustration and it's damn satisfying), but they only work when I can bring myself to utilise them. I've had an idea for a story for ages, but as soon as I get to writing anything, I lose it all.
Honestly, i'd love to try medication. I'm not allowed it because they believe i'd get addicted, but when I have to wait several months to see a therapist, and when even your family who have medication and see therapists don't seem to understand your limitations, it feels like i'm being denied something vital.
I guess, going back to the topic of gaming and depression, that I agree with Mr. Burning about it being (at least in part) the accomplishment that can help you. When you're depressed, the fact that you're unable to really do anything limits your potential for accomplishment substantially, but winning a wargame fulfills that requirement somewhat, as does actually owning an army; you feel that you're in control of something, at least, even if it's inanimate plastic army people, and when your control wins through, it's a hell of an achievement.
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Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/10 05:36:03
Subject: gamers and depression
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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remilia_scarlet wrote:Ahtman wrote:It is also possible to be depressed, play wargames, and not be intelligent at all.
like you? no, just kidding, but seriously, that was kinda uncalled for.
Pointing out that not all depression is linked to intelligence or hobby gaming is uncalled for in a thread about depression?
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/10 06:13:52
Subject: gamers and depression
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Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges
United States
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remilia_scarlet wrote:
Ahtman wrote:It is also possible to be depressed, play wargames, and not be intelligent at all.
like you? no, just kidding, but seriously, that was kinda uncalled for.
Its an important thing to remember. Too often people try to focus on possible good characteristics while ignoring the negative ones that are quite obvious. Not being particularly smart isn't a big deal, its a characteristic of the self, and there aren't many things more important than being able to honestly appraise yourself.
I battled with depression in my early teens, and then I discovered my love of hitting other people in socially acceptable circumstances (contact sports). That didn't make the depression disappear, but it helped me manage it; granted it helped that I was somehow pretty good at it. Now, I just don't have much to be depressed about, though that's a fairly recent development tied to having "made it" so to speak.
To echo others, success helps, as does acknowledgment. I don't like that I like it when people tell me I did something well, but I do.
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Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/10 19:50:27
Subject: gamers and depression
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Infiltrating Prowler
wocka flocka rocka shocka
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dogma wrote:remilia_scarlet wrote:
Ahtman wrote:It is also possible to be depressed, play wargames, and not be intelligent at all.
like you? no, just kidding, but seriously, that was kinda uncalled for.
Its an important thing to remember. Too often people try to focus on possible good characteristics while ignoring the negative ones that are quite obvious. Not being particularly smart isn't a big deal, its a characteristic of the self, and there aren't many things more important than being able to honestly appraise yourself.
I battled with depression in my early teens, and then I discovered my love of hitting other people in socially acceptable circumstances (contact sports). That didn't make the depression disappear, but it helped me manage it; granted it helped that I was somehow pretty good at it. Now, I just don't have much to be depressed about, though that's a fairly recent development tied to having "made it" so to speak.
To echo others, success helps, as does acknowledgment. I don't like that I like it when people tell me I did something well, but I do.
depression is an uphill battle at times, being able to find the good qualities in you can make things better, and they can give you hope that things will get better.
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captain fantastic wrote: Seems like this thread is all that's left of Remilia Scarlet (the poster).
wait, what? Σ(・□・;) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/10 20:03:46
Subject: gamers and depression
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Fixture of Dakka
On a boat, Trying not to die.
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On December 16, I tried to jump off my roof.
So yes, I'm suffering with thoughts of suicide every other day.
The thing that helps me the most is reading a book my friend made for me. It's a stack of about 20 post it notes, and on each one is a reason for me to live.
Life fething sucks, I can say that. But it gets better. I still have a severe problem with wanting to isolate myself and a crippling fear of rejection. But Dakka is helping with that.
TL;DR: Yes. That article speaks the truth.
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Every Normal Man Must Be Tempted At Times To Spit On His Hands, Hoist That Black Flag, And Begin Slitting Throats. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/10 20:15:40
Subject: Re:gamers and depression
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Servoarm Flailing Magos
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I get depressed when people who play WOW are referred to as "gamers".
There's no elitism in PC games any more :/
Having been depressed most of my life (that I can remember) I'm not going to voice my opinions here for fear of "offending" people.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/10 20:16:56
Ever thought 40k would be a lot better with bears?
Codex: Bears.
NOW WITH MR BIGGLES AND HIS AMAZING FLYING CONTRAPTION |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/10 20:17:00
Subject: gamers and depression
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Infiltrating Prowler
wocka flocka rocka shocka
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Chowderhead wrote:On December 16, I tried to jump off my roof.
So yes, I'm suffering with thoughts of suicide every other day.
The thing that helps me the most is reading a book my friend made for me. It's a stack of about 20 post it notes, and on each one is a reason for me to live.
Life fething sucks, I can say that. But it gets better. I still have a severe problem with wanting to isolate myself and a crippling fear of rejection. But Dakka is helping with that.
TL;DR: Yes. That article speaks the truth.
there are a lot of people witht he same problem, and the worst part is they tell no one this, and it builds up to a point where it becomes unbearable. the fact that you had friends who cared enough to make you a book out of post-it notes like that, with all that positive reinforcement is, in fact a blessing. the reason I brought this article up is that I felt it appropriate to share, with all that's going on, that this issue be addressed on dakka, like it was on mtg salvation and starcity games. it may be from a tcg site, but it's still relevant to all the spectrums of gaming. honestly, the number of people who have depression in gaming is a suprising number, and it's something that needs to be discussed.
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captain fantastic wrote: Seems like this thread is all that's left of Remilia Scarlet (the poster).
wait, what? Σ(・□・;) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/10 22:06:12
Subject: gamers and depression
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Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator
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I have been depressed before. I found the best cure to be diet,exercise and sunlight lol.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/12 18:36:05
Subject: gamers and depression
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Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller
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Bleak_Fantasy wrote:I have been depressed before. I found the best cure to be diet,exercise and sunlight lol.
Well, what he said.
Depression is a bitch, as it - depending on the level of the depression - can completely lock one down. Almost stun and leaves one unable to anything else than, well... Being depressed.
The most hardcore fact I've learned is that, well... Life doesn't get easier NOR worse. Life is what you make of it. And YES, i know it sounds like a lame cliché - and well, it is. But it's one of those pesky clichés that holds true.
- Ironically enough, being depressed often means that you're unable to take joy in things you'd otherwise enjoy doing and find happiness through, from being, well... Indifferent.
The best advice i can give is to:
- Never lose hope. Life has it's ways of changing.
- Accept that you're feeling down. Don't be ashamed of those feelings. Feeling down and also feeling ashamed of it isn't a great combination.
- Get out as much as you can. It doesn't have to be a part of a greater scheme. Go for a walk - a long walk.
- Don't be alone all the time. Whenever it's manageable, get out! See people. Whenever there's a chance, do it!
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:: I'm not suffering from insanity; I'm enjoying every minute of it! :: |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/12 19:07:05
Subject: gamers and depression
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
Mesopotamia. The Kingdom Where we Secretly Reign.
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I think that a major cause of depression is that people make the mistake of expecting to be "happy."
The world is a gakky, horrific place full of violence and death. Every day that I wake up with food in the fridge and a roof over my head and some people who ostensibly enjoy my company is good enough for me.
YMMV.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/02/12 19:07:22
Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/12 19:19:14
Subject: gamers and depression
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Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller
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Monster Rain wrote:I think that a major cause of depression is that people make the mistake of expecting to be "happy."
The world is a gakky, horrific place full of violence and death. Every day that I wake up with food in the fridge and a roof over my head and some people who ostensibly enjoy my company is good enough for me.
YMMV.
Yeah. Thats a good observation, and i think you're right, raines. But it's no wonder that people gets that idea. Just open up your tv. Or take a walk. There's plenty of material out there, that tells you HOW you're supposed to be and to live, to be "a happy person".
- Truth being told. It's not being less happy, that makes you depressed. It's when you start comparing yourself to others that have more. When those two sizes starts to differ too greatly, well... People start to suffer from it greatly.
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:: I'm not suffering from insanity; I'm enjoying every minute of it! :: |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/12 20:43:04
Subject: Re:gamers and depression
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Dakka Veteran
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Thanks to remilia_scarlet for sharing this
I realised a while ago that something wasn't quite right with me and I've always (as far as I can remember) had an 'ability' to feel completely alone, even within a room full of good friends. I finally booked a doctor's appointment and am struggling. I've never been the most social of people, yet have always had good friends - who've become more distant (physically) in recent years, which hasn't helped.
I have to say the medication has helped (sertraline) but only to a certain extent - I still have some very bad days (like the past couple). In my case it hasn't helped that I have a repeated back problem and that, due to my depression or the general english weather (especially recently with ice, snow and the bastard cold winds), I skipped a lot of exercise to help it. So now I've gone and got myself a cold, sneezed, tweaked my back and I've been unable to do anything but lay in bed, watch "The Tick" and brush undercoat/base things the last few days  Still it could be worse, I could also look like Wayne Rooney
I too have thought of suicide, but never with any real plan or conviction - I guess I'm lucky in that I realise (in my case) it would be stupid, selfish and quite pathetic to not even attempt life again  So I at least have some sliver of strength residing in my soul
For me it's the lack of joy or excitement that's the real bitch - and it's obtaining the motivation to begin, or usually, complete a project which I find most frustrating. It's horrible when you have absolutely no feelings whatsoever, it just makes you feel so cold and distant. It's true though that even something as simple as having a shave can make you feel a little better, after this post I'm looking forward to having a nice hot shower!
As for gamers and depression I don't know if there is a common link. I do know, in my case, that I like the 'alternate reality' of films, novels and games, be they war games, computer games, or even board games. To a certain extent 'the real world' is also a fiction written by the actions of humanity, so I find the irony/duality of fantasy and 'real life' interesting. I don't often play computer games now though (although if Diablo 3 was released by now I probably would do  ). I will be getting a PS3 in a couple of months for about 3-4 weeks - with Skyrim, which'll be great as it's like going on holiday to a place with little to no concrete and idiots (or if I come across any I can just hack their knees from under their body and cave their skulls in  ), where I can freely roam as I please, doing good and occassional evil to those who I deem deserve it!
Still I guess depression more commonly affects those people with a certain 'world view'? I can't imagine it affecting those who don't really think about life as much as those that spend any significant amount of time doing so - maybe I'm wrong
The worst thing though was searching the internet for help and advice. So many sites were just "See a doctor, believe in the power of medical science to help - but believe in Jesus more, only HE can truly SAVE YOUR SOUL (when you innevitably perish)"  Yeah, thanks for that
Depression is an interesting subject matter for sure. Now I've acknowledged my own, I can appreciate it in others and actively learn about it/from it and threads like this can only help anyone suffering from it. If anything it may be, as of yet, the most interesting thing that's ever happened to me, and that is, although somewhat perversely, a comforting thought
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/12 21:05:39
Subject: Re:gamers and depression
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
Karthu'ul, the Heart of the Universe
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As an intelligent person with a penchant for rationalizing everything, I've found that I quite enjoy gaming and am constantly depressed.
I've never been the most social sort, not because I couldn't be, but because I couldn't see the reasons behind it. All the way through high school, thought I was fine on my own. Who needs friends, relationships, or human contact when I could get through school on my own and go home and play video games?
That changed in college, when I found myself making actual friends and wanting to develop a relationship. But, years of neglecting those aspects of my life let me woefully unprepared. I had no idea how to meet people, converse with them, or act around them. All was good for a couple months, and then the depression started back up. Summer break my freshman year, I avoided contact with anyone, but kept up the cheerful facade. First sophomore semester, and my friends were worried about me. Winter break, I ignored them when they talked to me, even if it was to ask what was wrong.
And last week I tried to drink myself to death in front of them.
I hated myself. I hated every aspect of my being so thoroughly that I wanted to do the world a favor and take myself out if it. The idea only people who think they have nothing to live for commit suicide is a lie. I had things to live for, but but I didn't think I deserved them. I was a blight on the world and invariably, whoever filled my spot would do a better job at whatever they turned their hands to.
I'm still sorting through what happened and what was said that night. I don't remember any of it. I'm not happy. Not by a long shot. But... happier? Yes, I think I am. That night changed some things. And talking? Talking is helping.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/02/12 21:08:51
There are some who walk until their legs fail them and they fall to the ground. I find that respectable.
Then there are those who drag themselves further. I find that admirable. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/12 21:16:31
Subject: Re:gamers and depression
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Fixture of Dakka
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Nerivant wrote:
I'm still sorting through what happened and what was said that night. I don't remember any of it. I'm not happy. Not by a long shot. But... happier? Yes, I think I am. That night changed some things. And talking? Talking is helping.
I honestly believe some people have to see the demon and kick it's ass or they'll never have a chance to move past it. Best of luck on the upward swing!
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Worship me. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 0008/02/12 21:25:33
Subject: Re:gamers and depression
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Wing Commander
Firehawk 1st Armored Regimental Headquarters
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I'm not depressed at all.
All A's in my 6 AP classes, a Girlfriend, a great painted IG army, lots of great games.
Yay life!
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"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?"" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/12 21:28:57
Subject: gamers and depression
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
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The diabetic analogy isn't accurate. Type 1 / juvenile onset/ insulin dependant is due to a faulty immune system. Type 2 is mostly due to genes and pre-disposing lifestyle factors.
Ironically people with diabetes are more likely to become depressed
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/05/06 07:29:23
Subject: Re:gamers and depression
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Dakka Veteran
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Alexzandvar wrote:I'm not depressed at all.
All A's in my 6 AP classes, a Girlfriend, a great painted IG army, lots of great games.
Yay life!
Wait, you're young yet
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/02/22 19:39:26
Subject: Re:gamers and depression
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Wing Commander
Firehawk 1st Armored Regimental Headquarters
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warspawned wrote:Alexzandvar wrote:I'm not depressed at all.
All A's in my 6 AP classes, a Girlfriend, a great painted IG army, lots of great games.
Yay life!
Wait, you're young yet
My dad told me "Son, after growing up from the  iest part of Miami, and going through Vietnam, life is only as bad as you think it is. Think positive, you can only be depressed, if you let yourself be depressed."
Great advice in my opinion.
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"The Imperium is nothing if not willing to go to any lengths necessary. So the Trekkies are zipping around at warp speed taking small chucks out of an nigh-on infinite amount of ships, with the Imperium being unable to strike back. feth it, says central command, and detonates every vortex warhead in the fleet, plunging the entire sector into the Warp. Enjoy tentacle-rape, Kirk, we know Sulu will." -Terminus
"This great fortress was a gift to the Blood Ravens from the legendary Imperial Fists. When asked about it Chapter Master Pugh was reported to say: "THEY TOOK WHAT!?"" |
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