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How much authority does the =I= have over the Grey Knights? Total authority or limited authority like with the SM?

For an example if the =I= wants the GK to attack an non-Chaos faction while it would mean significant losses for the GK and an possible retaliation against Titan.

Would the =I= have to:

A) Just order them?

B) Tell them that said faction is Chaos affiliated?

C) Provide fake evidence?

D) Something of the above + Not revealing the true potential of the enemy?

The Ordo Malleus has authority over the Grey Knights, yet they investigate them. Contradiction much?

Why would investingate when they are their military arm?
Plus they are totally immune to the corruption from , , and so why would they watch over them when they are loyal to the bone to

As for OP question: the have the authority over like Commissar is having over his Guardsmen.

It's sort of stated in fluff.

Brother Coa wrote:Why would investingate when they are their military arm?

Why would the US Federal Government investigate the US Armed Forces when they're their military arm?

The GK are the Chamber Militant for Ordo Malleus, same as the Adepta Sororitas and the Deathwatch SMs are for the Ordos Hereticus and Xenos (respectively). In other words, yes, the GK fall under the jurisdiction of the Inquisition.

They're the chamber militant for all three ordos of the inquisition now, according to the GK codex, while the Sisters fo Battle white-dwarf-dex (because calling it a codex is giving it too much credit) practically removes all references to the Inquisition, and Deathwatch don't get any mention outside of the roleplaying game

GW were stupid enough to say that the GK are immune to corruption so they don't need to be.

Melissia wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Why would investingate when they are their military arm?

Why would the US Federal Government investigate the US Armed Forces when they're their military arm?

That is not the same, US army have solders who think for themselves.
think only about the Emperor and their eternal struggle against Chaos.
There is no need for to investigate them... but is totally different story...

First, it would take a planet-size set of big brass balls to direct "retaliations" at Titan. With the adequately sized army and with an absolute lack of anything resembling sanity. We're talking about the Solar System here, the very heart of the Imperium.

And no, the Inquisition doesn't need to lie or manipulate to get something done, its authority is unchallenged in the whole Imperium.
I get the feeling that the relationship of the Ordos with their Chamber Militant has more to do with cooperation than hierarchy though ; the Inquisition is technically in a position of authority, but the Chambers are all too happy to follow through when pointed at a target since they pursue the same goals. The Grey Knights codex mentions that the Inquisitor often conducts investigations and lets the knights in charge of military operations.

Also, the Grey Knights don't care about casualties since their mission is to face the most dangerous enemy of Humanity (wish that would translate into gaming terms, but I digress) ; the stakes justify any sacrifice. On the other hand, that means they're a highly specialized elite force the Imperium cannot afford to waste, and an Inquisitor would only require their intervention for very good reasons ; that is, not many things apart from the threat of a daemonic incursion. In fact, there was a short section in the Daemon Hunters codex devolved to explaining how all the 40k factions could draw the Ordo's attention, since the GK don't go to war just because.

Brother Coa wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Why would investingate when they are their military arm?

Why would the US Federal Government investigate the US Armed Forces when they're their military arm?

That is not the same, US army have solders who think for themselves.
think only about the Emperor and their eternal struggle against Chaos.
There is no need for to investigate them... but is totally different story...

If GK only thought about that then they would be rather shocked by Xenos forces...

purplefood wrote:
If GK only thought about that then they would be rather shocked by Xenos forces...

When was the last time go to war to fight non- foe?
I only know about one incident where they destroyed entire , but that was because they were near and they have some free time.
Other case I know is with the , they liberated the Craftworld from hands and actually safeguard it to return it to the later.
Other then that two cases never go to mission to fight aliens. That is a job of , and .

Brother Coa wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Why would investingate when they are their military arm?

Why would the US Federal Government investigate the US Armed Forces when they're their military arm?

That is not the same, US army have solders who think for themselves.
think only about the Emperor and their eternal struggle against Chaos.
There is no need for to investigate them... but is totally different story...

Is there any reason you're using symbols instead of words? Are you making some post-modern statement about the similarity between internet forums and prehistoric cave drawings in Southern France?
If not could you please use language instead of symbols, thanks.

Brother Coa wrote:

purplefood wrote:
If GK only thought about that then they would be rather shocked by Xenos forces...

When was the last time go to war to fight non- foe?
I only know about one incident where they destroyed entire , but that was because they were near and they have some free time.
Other case I know is with the , they liberated the Craftworld from hands and actually safeguard it to return it to the later.
Other then that two cases never go to mission to fight aliens. That is a job of , and .

Never?
That's 2 cases in a 10,000 year history and you think those are the only 2?
It's the job of GK to fight chaos. If chaos are assisting or being assisted by xenos then they fight them too.

Ok, option A. Thanks for the answers.

Hyd wrote:First, it would take a planet-size set of big brass balls to direct "retaliations" at Titan. With the adequately sized army and with an absolute lack of anything resembling sanity. We're talking about the Solar System here, the very heart of the Imperium.

Or an doomsday device. Plus you are forgetting Titans location. There is no need to destroy it if you can make it fall into Jupiter.

.I mean Saturnus.

Melissia wrote:They're the chamber militant for all three ordos of the inquisition now, according to the GK codex, while the Sisters fo Battle white-dwarf-dex (because calling it a codex is giving it too much credit) practically removes all references to the Inquisition, and Deathwatch don't get any mention outside of the roleplaying game

. . . yeah, I'm going with what it was/is beforehand, as that^ seems rather silly to me.

Safor wrote:Ok, option A. Thanks for the answers.

Hyd wrote:First, it would take a planet-size set of big brass balls to direct "retaliations" at Titan. With the adequately sized army and with an absolute lack of anything resembling sanity. We're talking about the Solar System here, the very heart of the Imperium.

Or an doomsday device. Plus you are forgetting Titans location. There is no need to destroy it if you can make it fall into Jupiter.

.

It's still the Solar system...
If you have resources to push it into Jupiter uninterrupted then you may as well go kill them instead...

Anfauglir wrote:

Melissia wrote:They're the chamber militant for all three ordos of the inquisition now, according to the GK codex, while the Sisters fo Battle white-dwarf-dex (because calling it a codex is giving it too much credit) practically removes all references to the Inquisition, and Deathwatch don't get any mention outside of the roleplaying game

. . . yeah, I'm going with what it was/is beforehand, as that^ seems rather silly to me.

Actually, Sisters never really were the chamber militant of the Ordo Hereticus except out of GW laziness anyway (and even then they intended to keep Sisters apart from the =][= anyway), so it's not that different than before for Sisters anyway.

Brother Coa wrote: When was the last time go to war to fight non- foe?
I only know about one incident where they destroyed entire , but that was because they were near and they have some free time.
Other case I know is with the , they liberated the Craftworld from hands and actually safeguard it to return it to the later.
Other then that two cases never go to mission to fight aliens. That is a job of , and .

The Grey Knights also dealt with the Necrons forces in the planet-sized gak Iori Delta Tove.

purplefood wrote:

Safor wrote:Ok, option A. Thanks for the answers.

Hyd wrote:First, it would take a planet-size set of big brass balls to direct "retaliations" at Titan. With the adequately sized army and with an absolute lack of anything resembling sanity. We're talking about the Solar System here, the very heart of the Imperium.

Or an doomsday device. Plus you are forgetting Titans location. There is no need to destroy it if you can make it fall into Jupiter.

.

It's still the Solar system...
If you have resources to push it into Jupiter uninterrupted then you may as well go kill them instead...

Moving the moon Titan into Jupiter would be an astronomical feat, considering it orbits Saturn.

In the old GW fluff, the Grey Knights (amongst other Marine organizations) were mentioned to be the Inquisition's own fighting formation, specifically to forego the unreliability of normal Astartes Chapters and provide Inquisitors with a tool that'd be ready whenever they feel it is needed. After all, even though an Inquisitor technically has the right to requisition the aid of any Imperial force, the Marines are stoically independent and may unlawfully refuse a request to aid.

That being said, the new GW Codex has rewritten a lot of stuff that Melissia already mentioned, so I'm not sure if this is still the case as far as the studio is concerned. I guess a deeper read into the Codex would be required. Maybe one of the GK players can throw a couple quotes into this thread?

Unfortunately there is little information in the GK codex about their relation with Inquisitors.
The essence of what I read is:
A) GK are now the chamber militant of the entire Inquisition (already been said)
B) They are called when an Inquisitor encounters a threat beyond their abilites daemonic or otherwise
(this one I interpret as beyond the abilities of the Inquisitor, their retinue and any easily available Imperial forces in the area)
C) When the GK are called in they run the military side of it, the Inquisitor is in command of the overall campaign, GK Brother-Captain/Grand Master deals with the battle.

That is all from the single paragraph I can find the whole book that describes the interaction between each group. If you wish to read it for yourself it is under the description of Inquisitors on page 44

Thanks for the info and the page number, I'll try to get a look at the GK Codex - I'm pretty sure someone in my office has to have one.

Appreciated!

Joey wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:Why would investingate when they are their military arm?

Why would the US Federal Government investigate the US Armed Forces when they're their military arm?

That is not the same, US army have solders who think for themselves.
think only about the Emperor and their eternal struggle against Chaos.
There is no need for to investigate them... but is totally different story...

Is there any reason you're using symbols instead of words? Are you making some post-modern statement about the similarity between internet forums and prehistoric cave drawings in Southern France?
If not could you please use language instead of symbols, thanks.

You mad bro?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

purplefood wrote:
That's 2 cases in a 10,000 year history and you think those are the only 2?
It's the job of GK to fight chaos. If chaos are assisting or being assisted by xenos then they fight them too.

My point is that are formed to fight primarily and not xenos.
But they fight xenos if they must, like all other forces.

CrashCanuck wrote:Unfortunately there is little information in the GK codex about their relation with Inquisitors.
The essence of what I read is:
A) GK are now the chamber militant of the entire Inquisition (already been said)
B) They are called when an Inquisitor encounters a threat beyond their abilites daemonic or otherwise
(this one I interpret as beyond the abilities of the Inquisitor, their retinue and any easily available Imperial forces in the area)
C) When the GK are called in they run the military side of it, the Inquisitor is in command of the overall campaign, GK Brother-Captain/Grand Master deals with the battle.

That is all from the single paragraph I can find the whole book that describes the interaction between each group. If you wish to read it for yourself it is under the description of Inquisitors on page 44

I'm a bit annoyed regarding A, I've just re-read this page in the two versions I have at hand and they're worded a bit differently.
Where it says "As the Inquisition's chamber militant" in the English version, the other version has "As the Ordo Malleus' chamber militant". Don't know if they have some kind of translation policy I could refer to but I doubt they would change the story from one language to another.

Hyd wrote:
]I'm a bit annoyed regarding A, I've just re-read this page in the two versions I have at hand and they're worded a bit differently.
Where it says "As the Inquisition's chamber militant" in the English version, the other version has "As the Ordo Malleus' chamber militant". Don't know if they have some kind of translation policy I could refer to but I doubt they would change the story from one language to another.

I have new Grey Knight codex at my home, it is indeed written that they are the Inquisition chamber militant. There is not even a mention of Ordo Malleus.

I believe that's what I wrote, yes. We're still in the same position.

The Inquisition, theoretically, has absolute authority over everyone.

GK have no real oversight. According to Ward, they don't need it as they're perfect in every way.

And yeah it's stupid the GK are the ordo militant of the whole inquisition now. I bet it's not wasteful at all to use this small elite force of daemonhunters to take out a cell of rebels on a Hive World or kill an Ethereal.

I would hope an inquisitor is expected to exhaust all his other resources before calling in the GK. Be that direct intervention themselves, sending in a retinue of acolytes, ordering around local Adeptus Arbites, ordering around local Imperial Guard/Navy or calling up the nearest SM chapter.