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Manitoba dragoons

Ok so I've been planning a new force and decided on the PDF Manitoba dragoons.

I almost did the guards from hell's highway, (and the support is almost identical) but I didn't for three reasons.

1) I briefly lived in Winnipeg for 4 months so being the only place outside the uk I've lived I have a small affinity

2) having done fearless vets I like the idea of confident trained

3) the idea of converting staghound 3's seems fun!

So the list

Hq
Ic and 2Ic stag hounds and 2 staghound 3's

Armoured car platoon
2 staghound And a lynx

Armoured car platoon
2 staghound And a lynx

Armoured car platoon
3 staghound 

Heavy armoured car platoon
2 staghound 3's and a lynx

Armoured car support platoon
Command + piat and mortar
3 pioneer MG teams
All in white scout cars

Anti tank platoon
4 M10c's

Armoured platoon
3 shermans and a firefly

Artillery
4 Sextons

Priority air support

So any thoughts?[code]

Those StagHound 3's on paper look amazing. The cheap arty is good, this might be a very competitive list. Hmmm lack of AAA, priority air support is for ground pounding and not interception? Might want to watch enemy air activity otherwise you've got alot of recce, TD's, arty and air. Impressive list.

I like it.

I have to say that I've still only played against planes a couple of times so not thought of AAA.

Looking at the options either upgrade one staghound platoon to AA or drop it for 3 Bofors

You're going to need some form of AA, and it will still be useful for soft targets now that they move and fire at half RoF.

Also, since you're armored cars, you'll be moving out in the open a lot since you want to avoid rough terrain, or terrain that slows you down.

Because of this, you won't be concealed as often, so airplanes will range in on you automatically.

This looks like a very good list. I was thinking of doing these guys as my second or third army, but alas, PSC doesent sell armoured cars. I buy all tanks and anything with tracks from PSC but everything else is BF via Waylandgames.

Vertrucio wrote:You're going to need some form of AA, and it will still be useful for soft targets now that they move and fire at half RoF.

Also, since you're armored cars, you'll be moving out in the open a lot since you want to avoid rough terrain, or terrain that slows you down.

Because of this, you won't be concealed as often, so airplanes will range in on you automatically.

Given this excellent advice above, I would go some Mobile AA to go with your units. That said, I don't know many German Armies that can afford a decent amount of Air support especially in LW.

The Germans kinda stink for late Aircraft unless you use a list from Fortress Europe.That is where i am having my problems at,I want a SS PAnzer company or Panzer Grendiers but the Divisional Support choices i think kinda stink.

Guys thanks for the advice - some AAA seems sensible!
It'll be a pricy army, but seems so much fun i'm not too fussed

So new list is

Hq
Ic and 2Ic stag hounds and 2 staghound 3's

Armoured car platoon
3 staghound

Armoured car platoon
3 staghound

Heavy armoured car platoon
2 staghound 3's and a lynx

Armoured car support platoon
Command + piat and mortar
3 pioneer MG teams
All in white scout cars

Anti tank platoon
4 M10c's

Armoured platoon
3 shermans and a firefly

Artillery
4 Sextons

3 Bofors SP
Limited air support

with 5 points left to reach 1750

Nice, the Staghounds aren't bad at killing mid-armoured vehicles too.

I was stoked on the first list. Most LW german armies, as mentioned, have little to no air support options. E&S has none, which is what I've been basing all my LW Western Front armies.

That said, I think this new list is just as good. You still have the ability of punching through light armour, and you can use to pin down infantry based units.

Remember that there are still non-historical Allied on Allied battles.

Also that since the rules have changed for the better, many players will be willing to use air a lot more than before for those that have the option.

The latest lists for Germans also have air, and these include some more generic lists like the panzergrenadiers and panzerkompanies that people will use regardless of front.

And even if you were doing a more historical list, those units would tend to have AA attached anyway, regardless if the Germans had air power, and historically they were used in great effect against infantry and soft targets, especially the bofors.

Thanks for bringing this list to my attention, Reaver! I'll probably be using it during a FoW escalation league that's starting up near me.

Nice to see people wanting to play my Grandfather's regiment, and liking the list I did the research on.

As for AAA, almost every vehicle can get a MG, and the Bofors really do wonders to scare opponents. I grabbed them specifically for Anti-Infantry back in 2e.

If anyone has any questions or notices major problems, let me know and I'll fwd to Battlefront.

-John

I have to honest, I hate the Blue on Blue, or Red on Red. I know everyone says "Oh just pretend it's wargames or man-oeuvres) But most of us FOW players have a Allied force and an Axis Force. The problem is usually that the era is wrong. lol

I have a question, actually: Where in the world do I find 15mm Staghound III's?!

i'm converting mine found, 3 used challenger 3's cheap on ebay

Skytrex has them.

We stick to Axis vs. Allies, always same time period, and always same area (Western/ Eastern.).

Mat

I could see 20mm stag 3's but not 15mm

Sorry, yeah it's a STAG II, I would buy Stag II's and convert them by up gunning them, using some Brass Tubing.

We have a guy who was already running all staghounds at our last tournament, and now he says he is running the Dragoon list next weekend at our biggest local tournament (28 players and counting)

Wil have pics and such, let you know she ran! What his list was etc.

mwnciboo wrote:Those StagHound 3's on paper look amazing. The cheap arty is good, this might be a very competitive list. Hmmm lack of AAA, priority air support is for ground pounding and not interception? Might want to watch enemy air activity otherwise you've got alot of recce, TD's, arty and air. Impressive list.

I run EW, MW and LW recce lists all the time. They do best in EW, because the units' armor and shooting capabilities are more in line with the tanks of the time. They do OK in MW, as things start getting harder to destroy. They are tough to play in LW, though. The V.3 change in the recce rules removing the forced withdrawal rule will help, but generally by LW armored cars are woefully outclassed in firepower and armored protection that the armored forces have. I do love me some armored car action, though.

I play the household cavalry list from Hell's Highway with a mix of staghounds and daimlers rolling around with a few littlejohn adapters thrown in for slightly better FP on the 2pdrs. They do struggle against enemy armored forces and really need to flank to be effective and that isn't always possible. So in some games they do very well. I get the right cover and positioning and take things from the sides, but in plenty my cars just get stomped into the mud.

In the second list you are definitely far better served with the bofors SP's as they can do everything: anti-tank, anti-infantry, anti-aircraft *and* they will almost always end up on the table. I generally don't like to spend many points on aircraft at all in general when playing anyway, so I like the bofors much, much better. It is a shame that the Crusader AA tanks only have such limited list availability.

One modeling point to make: Those bofors SPs are a pain in the a** to build!! Just built 3 of them last week. Hahahahahahaha

Skriker

It was the Staghound 3's specifically I think are awesome. The Staghound II's are okay.

But 3's have an value of AT 10 with FP 3. Thats pretty awesome, that's one point less than a STUG!!!! It's an armoured car ! Plus it can Smoke too.
A PUMA is AT 9, FP 4. The STAG III owns any other Recce on the board, and can smash more heavily armoured units too. Yes it's an Armoured Car and all the weaknesses therein, but it has one hell of a sting in the tail.

It's a pity you cannot field more platoons of STAG III's.

Unfortunately, more Stag IIIs would be historically inaccurate. The Manitoba Dragoons received twelve in total. 2 per Heavy Troop (platoon) and 4 that were added to the regimental HQ.

-John

edit: my danged 4 key sometimes doesn't type.

mwnciboo wrote:It was the Staghound 3's specifically I think are awesome. The Staghound II's are okay.

But 3's have an value of AT 10 with FP 3. Thats pretty awesome, that's one point less than a STUG!!!! It's an armoured car ! Plus it can Smoke too.
A PUMA is AT 9, FP 4. The STAG III owns any other Recce on the board, and can smash more heavily armoured units too. Yes it's an Armoured Car and all the weaknesses therein, but it has one hell of a sting in the tail.

It's a pity you cannot field more platoons of STAG III's.

Hadn't seen any stats for the stag IIIs until after my post. Yeah they are nasty little buggers. Still lacking in the armor department, but at least have on par weapons. The real difficulty is the models. Does anyone make a staghound III model? The only staghound that BF makes is the II with the 37mm gun turret.

Skriker

Someone on the FoW forums converted Stag IIIs using a crusader turret from BF's line.

And BF's Staghound has parts to make the 1(37mm), 2 or AA variants, not just the 37mm.

-John

Jbuckmaster wrote:Someone on the FoW forums converted Stag IIIs using a crusader turret from BF's line.

And BF's Staghound has parts to make the 1(37mm), 2 or AA variants, not just the 37mm.

-John

That is true on the A/A option and also on the crusader option. The key, though, is that unless you play other lists you need to buy an equal number of crusaders as staghound II blisters to make the IIIs which pretty much doubles the cost without an actual staghound III mini available. Because I started collection armored cars for the brits in the desert for MW, all of my armored cars are painted that way since I really don't want to buy the same minis multiple times just to paint them a different color. So would have no problem moving my desert crusader turrets onto staghound IIs for my own take on the staghound III since my staghound IIs are already painted desert colors anyway. Someone who won't use desert painted minis on a "european" table will be stuck double purchasing for each of those staghound IIIs.

Skriker

Got two crusaders in the mail yesterday (Yay product for writing), and promptly started on Stag III conversions. Needed to add some putty to the turret mounts, as the Crusader III turrets sat a little low and the hole for the turret was a bit too big around, leading to turrets that couldn't rotate, but would end up off-centre.

All fixed now, Will take pics when I start painting.

-John

Got some skytrex crusader 3's and found the same issue was thinking of hitting local DIY store for washers