Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been wondering how the Necrons managed to shatter the soul-eating Star Gods after being weakened(?) in the War In Heaven. I know that thay have some amazing, logic-defying tech, but the Old Ones were immortal psyker-sorcerers, and they couldn't manage it. Any ideas on how the Necrons pulled it off?

They were said to have attacked the C'tan in a weakened state after defeating the Old Ones, but really any more information than that does not exist to my knowledge. How does one shatter a being of pure energy and that has existed since the universe formed? Necrons took millions of years to figure it out, I think we'll need a few more years ourselves to unravel the mystery

As Azure mentioned, we have very little information on how it was done. There are only 2 things we no for sure:
1) They allowed themselves to unleash most of their power against the Old Ones and then attacked them when they were weakened and wounded
2) they somehow turned the cosmic forces of the fabric of the universe upon them.

We also know that this weakened them so much that races that were considered insects previously (Eldar and Orks) were suddenly a major threat.

I don't think they spent a full million years figuring it out. I don't think the War in Heaven lasted that long, but I could be wrong. It's happened once or twice. Think it might have had something to do with Necron control over the C'tan's necrodermis? Maybe just separating segments of the C'tan, and then locking it in a tesseract labyrinth?
Or, you know, not. I've lost all ideas I had. Extra posts came in while I was typing...

The Power of Friendship.

The same way Kratos killed all of Olympus, with the power of Hope.

Probably what happend was the necrons waited until the C'tan had killed the Old Ones, but were weakened by doing so(as the fluff states) since the C'tans only known weaknes is the warp, the necrons probably had siphoned off some of the Old Ones warp energy and shot it into the C'tan (I'm thinking like purple tesla, arcing from one "god" to the next ) "stressing" their "fractures"(from fighting the Old Ones) and shattered them, then put the pieces into a billion different super-tech jars to make sure they wouldnt reunite...

NebkaureI wrote: know that thay have some amazing, logic-defying tech, but the Old Ones were immortal psyker-sorcerers, and they couldn't manage it. Any ideas on how the Necrons pulled it off?

According to the Deceiver, the Old Ones did in fact defeat the C'tan prior to their encounter with the Necrontyr. They'd be kind of unlikely to try to destroy all of the C'tan anyway; they've always been presented as relatively benevolent.

As for the Necrons shattering the C'tan, I'd imagine they found a way to stop the C'tan from either simply leaving their Necrodermis bodies and fleeing in their natural state, or they managed to find a way to stop restrict the C'tans movement in their natural state (i.e. the C'tan couldn't escape without fighting their way through). The Silent King may have tried to play them off against each other or isolate them (or both), making their defeat easier. After that, I'd imagine it was application of overwhelming firepower combined with various tricks to keep them from returning to their natural state.

According to the Deceiver, the Old Ones did in fact defeat the C'tan prior to their encounter with the Necrontyr. They'd be kind of unlikely to try to destroy all of the C'tan anyway; they've always been presented as relatively benevolent.

I'd always thought that part about the Old Ones defeating the C'tan was part of the Deceiver's....deception. I know if I had an enemy like them, that's capable of what they are and I knew how to beat them once, I wouldn't give them the chance to try again.
And benevolent? I guess if you compare them to like, Khorne, maybe. But their whole goal originally was nothing less than eating the souls of every living thing in the galaxy...not so benevolent to me...

best guess:

A wizard did it...

EDIT: wouldn't it be a great way to bring back pariahs

This raises another issue, are there any of the "original" C'tan left? I know the fluff changed to suggest there arnt , but then whats under Mars (what did the Emperor fight?) and whats in the giant Dyson Sphere?

It wasn't thought out very well by GW, they just wanted the C'tan "gone" so came up with the simplest explanation as to why they'll never be mentioned in fluff again.

C'tan have always been 'gods of realspace' in the same way Chaos gods are gods of the warp. Different enviorment same mentality. They were just more explicit this time in 5th edition. I mean the fact they even break up into shards is proof of that (Chaos Gods being made up of individual souls/daemons, etc. Khaine breaking up into countless 'shards' of himself, etc.)

Matt Ward enjoys ruining existing fluff, and he was authorized to write the 5th edition newcrons codex. So now, instead of having the great C'tan masters of the necrons, the necrons managed to overthrow them in the blink of an eye. Makes sense, right?

Pyrogeist wrote:Matt Ward enjoys ruining existing fluff, and he was authorized to write the 5th edition newcrons codex. So now, instead of having the great C'tan masters of the necrons, the necrons managed to overthrow them in the blink of an eye. Makes sense, right?

This is science-fiction, and is therefore not reliant on 'sense' as you perceive it. The continued assumption that it's all Mat Ward's fault is, shamefully, still a rampant feature of this community. He doesn't work in a vacuum, and he isn't employed specifically to ruin your perception of the background. It seems pretty obvious that this is a change the development team as a whole thought was the better move for the Necrons as a faction.

As for the topic at hand, it all boils down to what quite a few people have stated already: we don't know.

Of the few pieces of information given to use which actually refer to these events we can only really garner two clear facts.

Firstly, the Necrons, directed by the Silent King, struck when the C'tan were already weakened and concerned more with the spoils of their conquest.

Secondly, the war against their former masters cost them dearly to the extent to which they were forced into hibernation to avoid certain rising enemies that weren't previously thought of as threats.

What we can assume is that the Necrons had an advantage in numbers and organization, and also the fact that their servitude under the C'tan allowed them to gather a great deal of knowledge about the Star Gods which likely gave them the chance to exploit any weaknesses.

By making the Deceiver stupid enough to give the Silent King the keys to the Necron race.

So basically a Wardism.

iproxtaco wrote:

Pyrogeist wrote:Matt Ward enjoys ruining existing fluff, and he was authorized to write the 5th edition newcrons codex. So now, instead of having the great C'tan masters of the necrons, the necrons managed to overthrow them in the blink of an eye. Makes sense, right?

This is science-fiction space opera, and is therefore not reliant on 'sense' as you perceive it.

Fixed that for you. But yes, I agree entirely.

vodo40k... wrote:but then whats under Mars (what did the Emperor fight?) and whats in the giant Dyson Sphere?

In both cases either a particularly impressive and complete shard, or else the whole C'tan, having somehow escaped the Necrons' notice would be satisfactory options. I'd prefer to presume the latter.

By the power of magnets, however they work.

Nebkaure wrote:
I'd always thought that part about the Old Ones defeating the C'tan was part of the Deceiver's....deception.

Possibly. Such a lie would probably be easy to see through though (presumably the Deceiver wouldn't actually know anything or at most very little of the Old Ones if the C'tan had never encountered them).
And benevolent? I guess if you compare them to like, Khorne, maybe. But their whole goal originally was nothing less than eating the souls of every living thing in the galaxy...not so benevolent to me...

TBH, I don't really know much about the old codex...but it did seem like they kinda enslaved the Necrontyr. Like, way more so than the new Codex...

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:I meant the OId Ones were shown as kind of benevolent. They've never, to my knowledge, be depicted as enslaving other races or anything. Didn't they spare the Necrontyr in the old Necron Codex until they became the Necrons (and it became too late)?

In the old codex, the Old Ones themselves were never given much characterization, though they did effectively nearly commit genocide on the Necrons in retaliation.

In the new codex, they are demonised somewhat, said to flaunt their immortality while not giving over the secrets of their longevity to the less fortunate races. This may be a biased Necron perspective, but I am inclined to believe otherwise, considering the lengths the book goes to portray the Necrons as vaguely sympathetic.

One thing to keep in mind is that the Necrons made the C'tan Necrodermis. They know exactly how they work and how to use and abuse it to their advantage.

FUS RO DAH

Pyrogeist wrote:Matt Ward enjoys ruining existing fluff, and he was authorized to write the 5th edition newcrons codex. So now, instead of having the great C'tan masters of the necrons, the necrons managed to overthrow them in the blink of an eye. Makes sense, right?

I agree with you.

iproxtaco wrote:

Pyrogeist wrote:Matt Ward enjoys ruining existing fluff, and he was authorized to write the 5th edition newcrons codex. So now, instead of having the great C'tan masters of the necrons, the necrons managed to overthrow them in the blink of an eye. Makes sense, right?

This is science-fiction, and is therefore not reliant on 'sense' as you perceive it. The continued assumption that it's all Mat Ward's fault is, shamefully, still a rampant feature of this community. He doesn't work in a vacuum, and he isn't employed specifically to ruin your perception of the background. It seems pretty obvious that this is a change the development team as a whole thought was the better move for the Necrons as a faction.

This is probably the most intelligent thing I've ever seen posted about Mat Ward. But I guess haters will hate regardless.

My guess is that they just tortured the Ctan till there minds cracked braking up into fragments. Then they took the fragments and locked them up in armor to keep them from rejoining.

Basically the same plot from Red Vs Blue.

Void__Dragon wrote:
In the old codex, the Old Ones themselves were never given much characterization, though they did effectively nearly commit genocide on the Necrons in retaliation.

They confined the Necrontyr to a few systems or whatever. I always got the impression that the Old Ones could have destroyed the Necrontyr utterly but chose not to since they viewed them as not much of a threat.

In the new codex, they are demonised somewhat, said to flaunt their immortality while not giving over the secrets of their longevity to the less fortunate races. This may be a biased Necron perspective, but I am inclined to believe otherwise, considering the lengths the book goes to portray the Necrons as vaguely sympathetic.

I assumed that that was because of a biased perspective and that the Old Ones were just naturally immortal (or that it had something to do with their Psychic abilities). The Emperor's immortal but even if He wanted to he could tell other Humans how to become so as well.

Connor MacLeod wrote:The Power of Friendship.

My profile picture approves.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:They confined the Necrontyr to a few systems or whatever. I always got the impression that the Old Ones could have destroyed the Necrontyr utterly but chose not to since they viewed them as not much of a threat.

That is basically it. Despite their superior technology, the Necrons simply could not cope with the Old Ones' advantage of the Webway, and were eventually decimated until they became a minor nuisance.

I assumed that that was because of a biased perspective and that the Old Ones were just naturally immortal (or that it had something to do with their Psychic abilities). The Emperor's immortal but even if He wanted to he could tell other Humans how to become so as well.

As I said, it could be a biased perspective, but the Silent King in particular is intended to be such a sympathetic character (Seriously, he is nearly fething saint-like by 40k standards) that I doubt that.

No one knows how, the necrons just did. Maybe they pushed the C'tan down some stairs.

CuddlySquig wrote:No one knows how, the necrons just did. Maybe they pushed the C'tan down some stairs.

Was that a Darkseid reference?