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Ok I have been thinking lately (which can be a bad habbit) and I wanted to ask a few questions about daemons.
ok first one:
1. Is there anyway at all you could KILL a daemon? like even say a magic weapon made in Warhammmer that survived to 40k?
2. What happened in between warhammer and 40k? daemon-wise I wondered if they went off somewhere or so?
thats all for now
Cheers

just in case I mean not just sending the back to the warp I mean totaly dead, kiced da bukit, saw the light etc......

2. Warhammer and 40k are NOT the same world/universe. They're completely separate. WHFB is not the 'past' of 40k.

In 40k, Chaos and the Warp has always been present, it's just that, with the mass expansion of humans over the next 30,000 years, the intelligent 'Powers' grow to a much more influential position.

According to 40k fluff, Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch already exist (now, in M2), and so do Daemons, but they are not as powerful as they are in M31 or M41.

Merc Row wrote:Ok I have been thinking lately (which can be a bad habbit) and I wanted to ask a few questions about daemons.
ok first one:
1. Is there anyway at all you could KILL a daemon? like even say a magic weapon made in Warhammmer that survived to 40k?
2. What happened in between warhammer and 40k? daemon-wise I wondered if they went off somewhere or so?
thats all for now
Cheers

1) Daemons who have their physical forms destroyed by a blank or in the presence of one, will have their warp essence snuffed out.
2) Warhammer and 40k have moved apart since 3rd Edition, but recently there's a trend in new Codexes (Grey Knights, Necrons) that they're moving closer again.

I thought you must have the daemon's true name to totally snuff it out, which is Grey Knights stuff. As Ciaphas Cain sent one back into the warp (who had screamed "You are a horrible little man!" and then ran away in abject terror) but he noted that daemon likely was only put back to the warp as Jurgen is a blank.

Beaviz81 wrote:I thought you must have the daemon's true name to totally snuff it out, which is Grey Knights stuff. As Ciaphas Cain sent one back into the warp (who had screamed "You are a horrible little man!" and then ran away in abject terror) but he noted that daemon likely was only put back to the warp as Jurgen is a blank.

Sorry, got it wrong. Destroying a daemon requires a pariah, not a blank. So Culexus or Silent Sister, since Necron pariahs don't exist anymore.

Tadashi wrote:

Merc Row wrote:Ok I have been thinking lately (which can be a bad habbit) and I wanted to ask a few questions about daemons.
ok first one:
1. Is there anyway at all you could KILL a daemon? like even say a magic weapon made in Warhammmer that survived to 40k?
2. What happened in between warhammer and 40k? daemon-wise I wondered if they went off somewhere or so?
thats all for now
Cheers

1) Daemons who have their physical forms destroyed by a blank or in the presence of one, will have their warp essence snuffed out.
2) Warhammer and 40k have moved apart since 3rd Edition, but recently there's a trend in new Codexes (Grey Knights, Necrons) that they're moving closer again.

A bit off topic, how have Grey Knights and Necrons moved the two games closer together?

Do you suppose a daemon is truly killed if killed while inside the warp?

I thought you needed the daemon's true name in order to destroy it. So that means the Grey Knight slaying a daemon says a lot of nutty stuff.

I'm pretty sure the true name simply allows you to control it. With some of the more powerful entities it is one of the few ways to banish it from the "real" universe for a period of time.

Which, as a side note, is exactly why we'll never know the Emperor's real name.

That turns the Grey Knights from daemon slayers to daemon handlers. Cool thought though. Two thumbs up.

For the Emprah, it's the same reason for why the Pointy Haired Boss ain't named. A name would destroy the magic.

Saying a demon's true name according to the fluff i've read simply weakens the creature's ability to fight you.

And there really won't ever be an "end" to the demons, you can't kill them all eventually, they exist as entities fueled by the power of their respective "Chaos God" as long as the big 4 have power, there will ALWAYS be more demons.

As far as them dying if killed while in the warp, i imagine their "escence" or power or whatever is simply re-absorbed.

Well... there was the (old fluff) Necron plan to separate the warp from the materium using the Blackstone Fortresses or whatever. That would have destroyed daemons for good, as separating the materium from the immaterium would deprive the warp of its energy source. Then again, that would probably also destroy a good portion of the galactic population.

chaos0xomega wrote:Well... there was the (old fluff) Necron plan to separate the warp from the materium using the Blackstone Fortresses or whatever. That would have destroyed daemons for good, as separating the materium from the immaterium would deprive the warp of its energy source. Then again, that would probably also destroy a good portion of the galactic population.

Null pylons I think they were called.

acekevin8412 wrote:

Tadashi wrote:

Merc Row wrote:Ok I have been thinking lately (which can be a bad habbit) and I wanted to ask a few questions about daemons.
ok first one:
1. Is there anyway at all you could KILL a daemon? like even say a magic weapon made in Warhammmer that survived to 40k?
2. What happened in between warhammer and 40k? daemon-wise I wondered if they went off somewhere or so?
thats all for now
Cheers

1) Daemons who have their physical forms destroyed by a blank or in the presence of one, will have their warp essence snuffed out.
2) Warhammer and 40k have moved apart since 3rd Edition, but recently there's a trend in new Codexes (Grey Knights, Necrons) that they're moving closer again.

A bit off topic, how have Grey Knights and Necrons moved the two games closer together?

Tomb Kings in Space! Grey Knight changed from specialized Astartes into a Knightly Order in space.

CuddlySquig wrote:Do you suppose a daemon is truly killed if killed while inside the warp?

Daemons can't be killed in the Warp, except maybe by someone as strong or stronger than the Emperor. They can be split apart, but it'll come back together almost instantly.

Durza wrote:

CuddlySquig wrote:Do you suppose a daemon is truly killed if killed while inside the warp?

Daemons can't be killed in the Warp, except maybe by someone as strong or stronger than the Emperor. They can be split apart, but it'll come back together almost instantly.

What about Draigo?

acekevin8412 wrote:

Durza wrote:

CuddlySquig wrote:Do you suppose a daemon is truly killed if killed while inside the warp?

Daemons can't be killed in the Warp, except maybe by someone as strong or stronger than the Emperor. They can be split apart, but it'll come back together almost instantly.

What about Draigo?

If you had read the fluff you would know the answer to that question (answer: he has killed loads of daemons and destroyed various daemonic landmarks, etc. only for them to rebuild themselves shortly afterwards...)

Sorry, I was just being a troll. But then again, wouldn't the daemons and landmarks not be killed or destroyed?

No my understanding is that you can kill/destroy them but they pop back into existence in short order and laugh at you as you realize the futility of your fight... then they burn, rape, torture, infect, hack, slash, maim, kill and destroy you in turn

I guess that makes sense...still don't like him though(fluffwise) Like melting green army men at the factory, they'll just take the molten plastic and mold fresh ones.

Good analogy and Draigo ain't that bad, he just suffers from poor/unclear writing (like all Wardian works). If you read between the lines some, Ward is actually trying to add some really interesting depth and dynamics to the universe, unfortunately he fails to actually lead the reader to the conclusions they should be reading. In the case of Draigo, if you read his fluff, the irony is that he himself IS, in effect, a Daemon. All the traits are there and the irony, etc. is palpable. Unfortunately Ward seemed to miss the part that the reader is not in his head and that he needs to be a bit more obvious for us to get it rather than assuming we have the same understanding he does, thus his writing comes off as very Mary Sue on the surface....


...Either that or his writing really is THAT terrible and my mind is looking for a logical explanation where none exists, but you know...

Care to elaborate?
I have heard that interpretation I never really understood it 100%. From I can understand, because he basically lives in the warp and is completely unaffected by it, logic dictates that he is native to it, ie a daemon.

Makes you wonder though would Driago met anyone (human at least) in the warp? If it happened to him it would happen to others.

ArbitorIan wrote:2. Warhammer and 40k are NOT the same world/universe. They're completely separate. WHFB is not the 'past' of 40k.

Some time ago, back with Albion(?) and Amazons, the way they talked about technology certainly suggested that the reverse was actually the case: WHFB had "ancient relics" that resembled (in fluff and stats) some common 40k weapons, implying that the WHFB world was some backwater world in 40k.

Also, aren't the Old Ones and same daemon characters in both settings?

chaos0xomega wrote:Good analogy and Draigo ain't that bad, he just suffers from poor/unclear writing (like all Wardian works). If you read between the lines some, Ward is actually trying to add some really interesting depth and dynamics to the universe, unfortunately he fails to actually lead the reader to the conclusions they should be reading. In the case of Draigo, if you read his fluff, the irony is that he himself IS, in effect, a Daemon. All the traits are there and the irony, etc. is palpable. Unfortunately Ward seemed to miss the part that the reader is not in his head and that he needs to be a bit more obvious for us to get it rather than assuming we have the same understanding he does, thus his writing comes off as very Mary Sue on the surface....


...Either that or his writing really is THAT terrible and my mind is looking for a logical explanation where none exists, but you know...

I like this interpretation, but I also think that Ward was not thinking this at all. Then again, Draigo earned my undying dislike in the two seconds it took me to read the entirety of his fight with Mortarion.

I think that the Old Ones of WHFB were the ones that fought the C'tan in 40k. The universes have been separated now, but there were a lot of similarities and references, like WHFB's Emperor falling to earth in a twin-tailed comet- ie, a drop pod.

I think you have to destroy its psychic Esence which is kinda emprah level stuff.

It is possable to destroy a daemon using certain materials and psychic channeling techniques.

Eisinhorn made a rod that can be used to destroy a daemon.



Of course there are certain daemons that can't be destroyed. Lesser daemons associated with a particular god can't be destroyed as they are simply extensions of their gods will and not an independent entity.

Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons can be destroyed, but it is a difficult process.

You have to destroy the physical form of the daemons AND prevent it from being able to escape into the Warp. Pariahs and certain psychic techniques allow the second part to happen.

You can't "kill" a daemon (unless you are a chaos god as they can take away the energy of daemons) but the GKs can imprison them in terseract labyrinths. Otherwise, you can only send them back to the warp by doing lots of physical and psychic damage.

As for fantasy and 40k, I don't know. I think they are set in completely different realities

Ruarinator2 wrote:You can't "kill" a daemon (unless you are a chaos god as they can take away the energy of daemons) but the GKs can imprison them in terseract labyrinths. Otherwise, you can only send them back to the warp by doing lots of physical and psychic damage.

As for fantasy and 40k, I don't know. I think they are set in completely different realities

I think you mean necrons. GK do not get tesseracts.

I think he means Inquisitor Valeria