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I suppose many of you have noticed that Dark Angels are featured on the cover of the new "How to paint Citadel Miniatures" book. Also, the new 40k paint set comes with Dark Angels models. Could they be replacing Ultramarines as the new posterboys of 40k?!?

This would not be unwelcome to Dark Angels players like myself.

So long as they are not made the vanilla codex, sure why not.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:So long as they are not made the vanilla codex, sure why not.

Why not? Ultramarines had to carry the burden for long enough. I'm all for some other chapter taking the Vanilla stick for a bit and Ultramarines getting their own book once more.

Ultramarines should not have their own 'dex. They are the exemplar marines, who all others want to be like.
Why have another book for an identical list and a few more SCs?

IMHO, there should only be three marine dexes. Space Wolves, Grey Knights, and Vanilla, with scs and other hqs unlocking special upgrades and units.

4oursword wrote:Ultramarines should not have their own 'dex. They are the exemplar marines, who all others want to be like.
Why have another book for an identical list and a few more SCs?

IMHO, there should only be three marine dexes. Space Wolves, Grey Knights, and Vanilla, with scs and other hqs unlocking special upgrades and units.

Wrong. Easily 60% or so of all 40K players play a variant of Marines. 70% or more in some regions. As such, 60% to 70% of books should be Marines, so you get as close as possibly to a roughly equal distribution of players across the available Codexes. If you merge the most popular books, you get larger chunks of the player base that converge on a single book, making the game less diverse, less balanced, less fun.

If you merge books, you should merge the books that draw the lowest number of players, adding the least to overall diversity of the playerbase. These are almost certainly not Marine books.

Why on earth should the smallest faction have the most books? If SM has multiple dexes for very little difference, then why do IG have no alternatives? There are more guardsmen on one world than Marines in existence.
From a business standpoint, it makes sense.
From a logical view, not at all.

I know this is GW, but that is my opinion.

Zweischneid wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:So long as they are not made the vanilla codex, sure why not.

Why not? Ultramarines had to carry the burden for long enough. I'm all for some other chapter taking the Vanilla stick for a bit and Ultramarines getting their own book once more.

Codex Ultramarine (as it originally was) Was the original vanilla codex, and has always been that way since second. What would they even have that's different? Even ward got rid of the Tyranid hunters and replaced them with Sternguard. They have always been the basis for vanilla, not to mention they have nothing that stands out truly enough to make them a variant.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:So long as they are not made the vanilla codex, sure why not.

Why not? Ultramarines had to carry the burden for long enough. I'm all for some other chapter taking the Vanilla stick for a bit and Ultramarines getting their own book once more.

Codex Ultramarine (as it originally was) Was the original vanilla codex, and has always been that way since second. What would they even have that's different? Even ward got rid of the Tyranid hunters and replaced them with Sternguard. They have always been the basis for vanilla, not to mention they have nothing that stands out truly enough to make them a variant.

Wait? Weren't you the guy that was so upset about DA using Mortis-Dreads? How about giving back Ultramarines uniquely what was originally only in the Ultramarines Book, starting with Sternguard (re-fluffed as Tyranid War Veterans), Honor Guard (re-fluffed as Calgar's Honor Guard ala 4th Edition Dex) and going back to "Ultramarine-unique" units from the 2nd Edition book like Razorbacks, Attack-Bikes, Whirlwinds, etc.. .

Seems to be room enough to make them unique there along. Inversely, you could also invent new "Ultramarine" specific units. TWC or Sang. Guard are fairly new additions too after all.

Admittedly, I doubt it'll happen. But one can dream, can one not?

I've been playing Dark Angels for 3 years now. Now I can't wait for my book to be the flavor of the month. Just wish I had more time and metal minis so I can rage-pitch an old DA dreadnought at the first person to accuse me of being a TFG for playing DA...

Wait? Weren't you the guy that was so upset about DA using Mortis-Dreads? How about giving back Ultramarines uniquely what was originally only in the Ultramarines Book, starting with Sternguard (re-fluffed as Tyranid War Veterans), Honor Guard (re-fluffed as Calgar's Honor Guard ala 4th Edition Dex) and going back to "Ultramarine-unique" units from the 2nd Edition book like Razorbacks, Attack-Bikes, Whirlwinds, etc.. .

I'm only bitter as to what the fluff still says is a unique variant that is given to everyone else (at least it's most popular variant). It'd be as if Furiso and Baal variants were listed as unique, but given to Ultramarines and Black Templar as well.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:I've been playing Dark Angels for 3 years now. Now I can't wait for my book to be the flavor of the month. Just wish I had more time and metal minis so I can rage-pitch an old DA dreadnought at the first person to accuse me of being a TFG for playing DA...

Oh Noes! People who actually dare enjoy new releases by GW and use it to start new armies! Heresy!!!! The Horror!!

You think you have more entitlements, more claim to "Dark Angels" because you've got some green-coated relics dusting in your corner than someone who will pick em up this summer? That is sad, man. Truly sad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
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I'm only bitter as to what the fluff still says is a unique variant that is given to everyone else (at least it's most popular variant). It'd be as if Furiso and Baal variants were listed as unique, but given to Ultramarines and Black Templar as well.

Or if someone filed the "unique" fluff of UM Tyranid War Veterans or Calgar's Honor Guard, just to use the 4th Edition examples, and gave em to everyone? But no. Reading your above post again, you think it shows how well suited that makes Ultramarines to be the "Vanilla Marines"? No?

I guess that line works for Dark Angels too. If Tyranid Veterans can be "de-fluffed" and made Vanilla Sternguard, Mortis can be "de-fluffed" and made "Vanilla Dreads" and Ravenwing can be "de-fluffed" and made a "Vanilla Rapid Strike Force", etc.., etc,.. ; making Dark Angels ideally suited to serve as the new Vanilla. Seems like the logical consequence of your above argument to me.

Getting back on topic, and ignoring the standard "too many marines" whining, I can't see them replacing the Ultramarines as the posterboys, I think the Ultramarines are too familar an image now for it to be worth swapping them out. The Dark Angels in the starter set and on the cover is just so they are associated with each other for new gamers picking up the starter set. I reckon the Ultras are here to stay on the posters.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:
[

I'm only bitter as to what the fluff still says is a unique variant that is given to everyone else (at least it's most popular variant). It'd be as if Furiso and Baal variants were listed as unique, but given to Ultramarines and Black Templar as well.

Or if someone filed the "unique" fluff of UM Tyranid War Veterans or Calgar's Honor Guard, just to use the 4th Edition examples, and gave em to everyone? But no. Reading your above post again, you think it shows how well suited that makes Ultramarines to be the "Vanilla Marines"? No?

I guess that line works for Dark Angels too. If Tyranid Veterans can be "de-fluffed" and made Vanilla Sternguard, Mortis can be "defluffed" and make "Vanilla Dreads"; making Dark Angels ideally suited to serve as the new Vanilla. Seems like the logical consequence of your above argument to me.

Zweischneid wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:I've been playing Dark Angels for 3 years now. Now I can't wait for my book to be the flavor of the month. Just wish I had more time and metal minis so I can rage-pitch an old DA dreadnought at the first person to accuse me of being a TFG for playing DA...

Oh Noes! People who actually dare enjoy new releases by GW and use it to start new armies! Heresy!!!! The Horror!!

You think you have more entitlements, more claim to "Dark Angels" because you've got some green-coated relics dusting in your corner than someone who will pick em up this summer? That is sad, man. Truly sad.

Or, as I think was quite clear, he doesn't want the New Codex obsession label. He's been playing an army for three years, so of course he should have more of a say than someone who waltzes in and picks them up.
Although, your comments are verging on trolling now.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

So you'd gain Tyranid War Veterans and Honor guard. Can you tell me anything else a unique variant Ultramarines would even have? A unit specific to taking Calgar as a SC, and Tyranid War Veterans is all you've proposed, and is the closest thing you've got to even a unique pattern, unless somehow you're going to dedicate Ultramarines entirely to Anti-Tyranids (Which I admit, would be somewhat cool)

What is wrong with a unit specific to Calgar as a SC as opposed to a FoC-change unique to Belial for example?

Also, historically unique units. While it is unlikely they'll "revert" back to be entirely UM, you could acknowledge the 2nd Ed. UM heritage of Razorbacks and the like by given UMs better/new/variant ones. Characters like Chronos could be build upon to give UM's unique armoured/tank formations, not unlike the DA have Ravenwing.

And of course entirely new units (as done with Sanguinary Guard, Wolf Cavalry), perhaps inspired by the Tyranid War, perhaps inspired by other iconic battles. Moreover, given that UM's sort of govern and stewartship a larger realm than most Marines, they would make the most obvious loyalist chapter to include "non-Marine" units of some shape or form into the army to perhaps mirror the rumoured addition of cultists/traitor-guard/etc.. that Chaos may or may not be getting in the next update supposedly.

Etc.., etc..


But you really haven't answered my question of why using UM-without-the-serial-numbers as a template for "Vanilla" is fitting to you while using DA (Mortis, Ravenwing, etc..) for the same is offensive to you. Still seems like you are measuring things by different standards.

Can you lot bring your discussion back on topic or start a new thread elsewhere please? Thanks!

Zweischneid wrote:

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:I've been playing Dark Angels for 3 years now. Now I can't wait for my book to be the flavor of the month. Just wish I had more time and metal minis so I can rage-pitch an old DA dreadnought at the first person to accuse me of being a TFG for playing DA...

Oh Noes! People who actually dare enjoy new releases by GW and use it to start new armies! Heresy!!!! The Horror!!

You think you have more entitlements, more claim to "Dark Angels" because you've got some green-coated relics dusting in your corner than someone who will pick em up this summer? That is sad, man. Truly sad.

Oh wow, now you are the one who is truly sad here. I don't know about you, but I've seen people get alot of hate for playing GK, mostly because alot of people picked them up when they came out because they thought that the new GK would be unstoppable, and they were hard to beat for a while. And I can honestly respect someone more for having the army before the new dex because they like that army than someone who picked up the dex for WAAC purposes.

OT: I'm not sure the DA's becoming poster boys would be bad or good, just such a massive change from the ultramarines. On one side, I think it would be pretty cool to see your army become the poster boys, but on the other, it may mean more DA players, and I like playing an uncommon army, well, as most uncommon as DA can get.

Make squats the new posterboys imo. Dark Angels just don't have the swag.

I think it would be a refreshing change. Its about time Ultramarines got their dignity back too. DA are after all, the 1st Legion.

It's possible that the new edition of 40,000K will be started off with a Codex: Dark Angels a month or two before the rule book is released like the Daemons codex, designed for the 5th edition but released a month before. I'd like to see a change to the poster boys, though the Iron Hands really need attention.

blood reaper wrote:It's possible that the new edition of 40,000K will be started off with a Codex: Dark Angels a month or two before the rule book is released like the Daemons codex, designed for the 5th edition but released a month before. I'd like to see a change to the poster boys, though the Iron Hands really need attention.

I think the rumour-mill has it likely (as likely as rumours can make it) the other way around with Chaos Marines being released "just before" the new edition of 40K with the new edition in mind (and, it is rumoured, being the bad guys in the starter-box).

Than, the "1st" Codex in the new edition, i.e. after the new Edition, would be a "loyalist Marine book", which may be Codex: Dark Angels (probably) or Codex: Space Marines with Dark Angels "as posterboys" (possible, highly welcome IMO, though overall less likely I suppose).

I thought the Chaos Rumors had run dry with Ghost21 turning out to have made up the rumors, except for the occasional rumor on the starter set being a Dark Angels versus Chaos Marines.

blood reaper wrote:I thought the Chaos Rumors had run dry with Ghost21 turning out to have made up the rumors, except for the occasional rumor on the starter set being a Dark Angels versus Chaos Marines.

Still going strong on Warseer.

Rumours are rumours. They may all turn out false.. they might just be the unlife of whispers started by Ghost21 cycling endlessly across the blogs. There is, sure as hell, nothing substantial like the DA on the paint set. But I wouldn't call it dry. Good rumours are not killed that easily.

I actually rather like the Ultramarines being the archetipical chapter, cause that's what they are in the fluff. Dark Angels have their own special quirks, which they would lose if they became the SM codex boys, as they tend to be a little too complicated for the base codex(What with the Deathwing, Ravenwing etc).

As for the other discussion, yes, I WOULD preffer if all marine chapters where in a big codex with the variants in there as themed lists. Much like I would like all the Inquisition to be in one codex, with variants for SoB, GK or Henchmen themed lists. Same with Chaos/Chaos Daemons etc.

But GW is obviously pushing the multiple small codexes angle, what with the upcoming multiple chaos books, so in that case, yeah, it kinda makes sense to have multiple marine books, since they are by far the most attractive race to most people. Besides, marine variants work because it's easy to make interesting themes on a marine template. Most archetypal fantasy cultures like vikings, vampires etc can be difficult to apply on xenos races, but SM? easy. Want space spartans? UM? Want Space Vikings? SW. Want Space Nazis? Death Korps....ummmm. Is there a Persian/Arabian warriors style chapter? You can easily make one!

It makes no fluff sense to focus so on SMs perhaps, but this IS a game, AND a business. Making bad business moves for the sake of fluff is bad for all of us. I would love more focus on the xenos, but if that will end up hurting 40k sales overall, and mean less people play, what's the point. GW keeps getting a bad rap for being all about money, but if they arent, they shut down, and who would gain from that? They are already flagging.

I sincerely hope not. Dark Angels seemed fairly interesting until I read Descent of Angels. Worst book of the Horus Heresy series so far. If GW makes a move away from ultrasmerfs I would hope they turn to Black Templars.

Isn't the general consensus that it is a DA on the sides of the Jan-March WD's thus far? And that has something to do with future releases?

Considering that the just published Warhammer 40k Paint Set has Caliban Green (Dark Angels) but not Macgragge Blue (Ultramarines), I think it's pretty safe to say that Dark Angels will be the new poster boys instead of Ultramarines.

It is a refreshing change for GW to push a new Marine other than the Ultra ones.

They're not the "new posterboys".

GW is just marketing them more so that the new starter box sells more.

What is wrong with you people?