Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Assuming the Emperor doesn't get reincarnated immediately once the Throne fails, and the Powers of Chaos are blown back and everyone in the Eye is destroyed by the psychic backwash of the Golden Throne's collapse, what will be the Splinter Realms that will rise from the Imperium until the Emperor returns? I can see three: the Realm of Ultramar (the original one, as not just the Ultramarines, but their descendants band together to form a heavily-fortified, but prosperous realm stretching across the Ultima Segmentum), the Realm of Baal (see Ultramarines), and the Cadian March (centred on Cadia and comprising the industrial and military sectors around the Eye). Not to mention the small Mechanicus 'pocket empires' centred on individual Forge Worlds, with the largest centred around Mars and the ruins of Terra.

How many others will rise, and where?

Yeah...just saying that there's a psychic backlash means most if not all humanity will be wiped along with the Eye. Psykers wouldn't work either (dead or no astronomican) so there wouldn't be any splinter empires with long range transport. Not sure if the eldar in the webways would bypass that or not. Same for the Tau as they have little to no presence in the warp so not sure if they would know of such a backlash.

In short, the grim darkness of the far flung future means it's all ash and gone.

mrwhoop wrote:Yeah...just saying that there's a psychic backlash means most if not all humanity will be wiped along with the Eye. Psykers wouldn't work either (dead or no astronomican) so there wouldn't be any splinter empires with long range transport. Not sure if the eldar in the webways would bypass that or not. Same for the Tau as they have little to no presence in the warp so not sure if they would know of such a backlash.

In short, the grim darkness of the far flung future means it's all ash and gone.

Not really. I was thinking along the likes of Gaunt's Ghosts, where the psychic backlash incinerates only Chaos-tainted Humans. The Eldar will be fine, but the DE might not be if they're not in the Webway. No Astronomican, we're back in the Age of Strife, only short-range warp jumps. Astartes Librarians can still use astrotelepathy though, so they'll be fine. Successful splinter realms will have at least one Astartes Chapter in them to survive. The Hive Mind will probably get blown back along with the Powers. The realms will have to work with the Tau or something similar to fight the Necrons until the Emperor comes back.

... and again if it's the kind of back lash where like destroys like what'll happen to the untold billions that worship the Big E? They'll get hit by the back lash and not Chaos. If it's big enought to wipe the EoT it's big enough to make the whole Imperium go FUBAR.

Sorry but this situation of theGolden Throne failing is kind of the Damocles Sword over the Imperium's head. It goes and basically everyone else does too.

Edited for more

Also, all telepaths are bound to the Big E and the chair so without it they can't guide ships in the warp so no the SM Librarians wouldn't fair better. I'd go so far as to say all psykers would bite it if the Throne fails and likely almost all non psyker humans too.

Psykers existed before the emperor...
Secondly, gw states that the golden throne will stop working eventually. Youre telling me that theyve damned the 40k universe and are going out of business? Hah, rediculous.

Brother Thomas wrote:Secondly, gw states that the golden throne will stop working eventually. Youre telling me that theyve damned the 40k universe and are going out of business? Hah, rediculous.

Oh they have indeed damned the 40K universe (with small glimmers of light here and there) - but the thing is they never actually have to close the casket so to speak (or snatch victory from the jaws of defeat if you want to have a positive ending).

The Golden Throne has been in trouble for the past decade in rhe real world and will perpetually be in trouble. and they don't have to do a thing to move the timeline forward on when it actually "fails"

It simply becomes part of the background/scenery as to why things look bleak in the Imperium.

The Hive Mind will probably get blown back along with the Powers.

That all depends on what exactly the Hive Mind is. Another perpetual mystery GW doesn't have to resolve

There will be no splinter realms. With the Emperor dead the Tyranids come in and eat everyone. Either that or the Orks come in and take over them all and make a royal mess of things before the Tyranids come to try and eat everyone, and then while the Nids and Orks duke it out, the necrons come out of nowhere, finish off the survivors, and then take over the galaxy.

Imotekh will then build a giant statue of himself on top of the palace on Terra to satiate his own ego and Trazyn takes the Golden Throne and all the primarch's corpses as trophies. Everyone else hails their new necron overlords until Szarekh comes in and crashes the party, beats Imotekh upside the head with his own statue and force feeds Trazyn his collection and forms the new Galactic Necron empire.

+1 it is grim dark for a reason. Otherwise it's a space opera instead of doom and gloom. Heck the timeline in the BRB says it's the waning days of the Age of Man. If you want uplifting the 35 or so millenium is calling. Manchurius (sp?) campaign uniting 1000 worlds in His name.

GW isn't going out of business (losing sales sure) but they won't advance the story or fix things as that provides hope. and 'Hope is the first step on the road despair'.

mrwhoop wrote:Also, all telepaths are bound to the Big E and the chair so without it they can't guide ships in the warp so no the SM Librarians wouldn't fair better. I'd go so far as to say all psykers would bite it if the Throne fails and likely almost all non psyker humans too.

You are very wrong.

Only the astropaths are bonded to the Emperor (it causes the human's eyes to be burned out). From that information there will be SM psychers, Inquisitors and any other psyker not yet found or currently on Black Ships being transported at the time of the event.

Also it is not astropaths that navigate in the Warp it is Navigators, who are a completely distinct spieces of human not bonded to the Emperor. The psychic beacon provided by the Terra acts a lighthouse in the Warp, allowing for EASIER Warp travel. If it fell Warp travel would still be possible and empires such as Ultramar would continue to exist much as it did before the Great Crusade.

Kain wrote:There will be no splinter realms. With the Emperor dead the Tyranids come in and eat everyone. Either that or the Orks come in and take over them all and make a royal mess of things before the Tyranids come to try and eat everyone, and then while the Nids and Orks duke it out, the necrons come out of nowhere, finish off the survivors, and then take over the galaxy.

Imotekh will then build a giant statue of himself on top of the palace on Terra to satiate his own ego and Trazyn takes the Golden Throne and all the primarch's corpses as trophies. Everyone else hails their new necron overlords until Szarekh comes in and crashes the party and forms the new Galactic Necron empire.

Umm no, the nids are attracted by the golden throne so with it gone they won't keep coming from the fringes of the galaxy. Still not sure how Nids or other Psykers will handle such a large backlash without popping...this would be worse than the time when the Eldar created the EoT after all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BluntmanDC wrote:

mrwhoop wrote:Also, all telepaths are bound to the Big E and the chair so without it they can't guide ships in the warp so no the SM Librarians wouldn't fair better. I'd go so far as to say all psykers would bite it if the Throne fails and likely almost all non psyker humans too.

You are very wrong.

Only the astropaths are bonded to the Emperor (it causes the human's eyes to be burned out). From that information there will be SM psychers, Inquisitors and any other psyker not yet found or currently on Black Ships being transported at the time of the event.

Also it is not astropaths that navigate in the Warp it is Navigators, who are a completely distinct spieces of human not bonded to the Emperor. The psychic beacon provided by the Terra acts a lighthouse in the Warp, allowing for EASIER Warp travel. If it fell Warp travel would still be possible and empires such as Ultramar would continue to exist much as it did before the Great Crusade.

I fudged the astropath / telepath but you're wrong as all pykers are brought before Him in the Black ships and are bound to him. Otherwise they're feed to the GT at what? 1000 or 10000 a day? Some huge number.

mrwhoop wrote:

Kain wrote:There will be no splinter realms. With the Emperor dead the Tyranids come in and eat everyone. Either that or the Orks come in and take over them all and make a royal mess of things before the Tyranids come to try and eat everyone, and then while the Nids and Orks duke it out, the necrons come out of nowhere, finish off the survivors, and then take over the galaxy.

Imotekh will then build a giant statue of himself on top of the palace on Terra to satiate his own ego and Trazyn takes the Golden Throne and all the primarch's corpses as trophies. Everyone else hails their new necron overlords until Szarekh comes in and crashes the party and forms the new Galactic Necron empire.

Umm no, the nids are attracted by the golden throne so with it gone they won't keep coming from the fringes of the galaxy. Still not sure how Nids or other Psykers will handle such a large backlash without popping...this would be worse than the time when the Eldar created the EoT after all.


.

They're not going to stop coming and take the million year trip to some other galaxy because the shiny light was turned off. They came for the light, and are staying for the food. And the Chaos Gods are fueled by only a portion of the sentients in the galaxy (the orks for example, unless tricked into worshipping a chaos god only feed gork and mork who have often been said to be much stronger than the chaos gods beause the orks outnumber all the other native sentients combined), the Tyranid Hive Mind is fueled by the population of a dozen galaxies and they are all hungry. So by principle of numbers alone the Hive Mind is likely more powerful than the Chaos Gods. That and the Hive Mind is not some entity to be blown back, it's the gestalt will and hunger of a force that outnumbers the stars themselves. The Emperor of Mankind can't compare to that. It'd be like trying to stop a tsunami by blowing a bomb up in front of it.

What?

What?!

Even the Tyranid Codex doesn't say any of that! I'll agree that the long trip means the ones here would stay for the food but if the Psychic backlash is enought to drop the EoT (as the OP suggests) then the Hive Mind/brain bugs here aren't going to fair much better.

I still contend that if the Big E bites it most if not all (psychic) life is gonna bite it too.

mrwhoop wrote:What?

What?!

Even the Tyranid Codex doesn't say any of that! I'll agree that the long trip means the ones here would stay for the food but if the Psychic backlash is enought to drop the EoT (as the OP suggests) then the Hive Mind/brain bugs here aren't going to fair much better.

I still contend that if the Big E bites it most if not all (psychic) life is gonna bite it too.

The tyranid codex (or was it the rule book) says that they have eaten a dozen galaxies. Last time I checked, 12>1. So by theory of numbers the Hive Mind>The Emperor.

Yeah I have the nid dex and can't remember that ever being mentioned. Though I do recall the line about one theory is that they're running from something.

Book's not in hand to check but I don't think it's ever stated to add to the grim darkness of it all. Specifically the Hive Mind as other psykers have gone mad trying to connect but since none are as great as the Emperor it's kinda moot.

mrwhoop wrote:Yeah I have the nid dex and can't remember that ever being mentioned. Though I do recall the line about one theory is that they're running from something.

Book's not in hand to check but I don't think it's ever stated to add to the grim darkness of it all. Specifically the Hive Mind as other psykers have gone mad trying to connect but since none are as great as the Emperor it's kinda moot.

It's in the rulebook's fluff section. "The tyranids have left behind the husks of a dozen galaxies" or something of that sort. Loki can probably fill you in on the details better than I could. I like the nids but Loki probably knows every scrap of nid fluff there ever was.

Don't know this Loki so I'll just wait until I can get at my copy.

mrwhoop wrote:Don't know this Loki so I'll just wait until I can get at my copy.

He's the guy with the genestealer in a working man's outfit for an avatar. You'll know him when you see him.

mrwhoop wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

mrwhoop wrote:Also, all telepaths are bound to the Big E and the chair so without it they can't guide ships in the warp so no the SM Librarians wouldn't fair better. I'd go so far as to say all psykers would bite it if the Throne fails and likely almost all non psyker humans too.

You are very wrong.

Only the astropaths are bonded to the Emperor (it causes the human's eyes to be burned out). From that information there will be SM psychers, Inquisitors and any other psyker not yet found or currently on Black Ships being transported at the time of the event.

Also it is not astropaths that navigate in the Warp it is Navigators, who are a completely distinct spieces of human not bonded to the Emperor. The psychic beacon provided by the Terra acts a lighthouse in the Warp, allowing for EASIER Warp travel. If it fell Warp travel would still be possible and empires such as Ultramar would continue to exist much as it did before the Great Crusade.

I fudged the astropath / telepath but you're wrong as all pykers are brought before Him in the Black ships and are bound to him. Otherwise they're feed to the GT at what? 1000 or 10000 a day? Some huge number.

Can you provide any fluff reference that supports you view that all psyker inquisitors and librarians are blind with burned out eye sockets? As this is a consequence of the binding process.

Psykers will be fine, they existed before the Thorn, hell they existed before the Chaos gods and the warp going all Clive barker. Astropaths might be screwed, then maybe not. My money is on them being screwed. Warp travel is still possable, even long jumps. However without the Astronomican long range jumps simply become harder to hit the mark, not imposable.

It was not lack of a light house that caused the warp travel issues in the age of Strife, but massive, almost all consuming warp storms. Even the Artronomican (which most likely was around then, the Big E did not craft it, just started it back up) would have been useless during that time, you simply can not drive a ship though a mass warp storm and hope you make it.


The biggest issue would be lack of Astropaths, assuming they all die. However you might see a spike in psyker powers without chaos there to taint them. I think at the very lest the IoM will "splinter" along the Segmaunta (sp) lines. You will see some fracturing even further along those lines and I think the Navy may come out as the Big boys on the block. You might even see Sm breaking the chapter limits and reforging the Io, who knows.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BluntmanDC wrote:
Can you provide any fluff reference that supports you view that all psyker inquisitors and librarians are blind with burned out eye sockets? As this is a consequence of the binding process.

They are not bound, at lest in the same way an astropath is. An Astropath is a weaker psyker to start with. They are then trained along one of the pskyer paths and "Bound" the same way to both boost power and give thier weaker willpower a bit old a boost.
Inquisitors psykers have such a strong self control over their own power they are not even "sanctioned " bound for the most part. Same goes with Sm Librains, they do not need the control boost or they would not have been cherry picked, but sent off to becomes sanctioned psykers or astropaths.

The Inquisition and the Space marine chapters only take the very best and those with the best control into the ranks. Those they are found waiting die or are sent elsewhere.

Segmentum Pacificus is the historically most rebellious area of the Imperium and split off under the banner of Nova Terra for 900 years. It was also the sight of the Macharian Heresy and Sabbat Worlds. It would definitely break off again the moment it had a chance.

Kain wrote:

mrwhoop wrote:Yeah I have the nid dex and can't remember that ever being mentioned. Though I do recall the line about one theory is that they're running from something.

Book's not in hand to check but I don't think it's ever stated to add to the grim darkness of it all. Specifically the Hive Mind as other psykers have gone mad trying to connect but since none are as great as the Emperor it's kinda moot.

It's in the rulebook's fluff section. "The tyranids have left behind the husks of a dozen galaxies" or something of that sort. Loki can probably fill you in on the details better than I could. I like the nids but Loki probably knows every scrap of nid fluff there ever was.

Yeah, the BRB has that line but the newer Nid dex doesn't so even they don't know what they've done. It lists 3-4 'Possible', 'or', and 'Whatever the Truth' so fluff retcon says 'whatever they're eating Imperial worlds now deal with it.'


As for psykers being bound I couldn't find anything for the Inquistion or SM and that's likely because none may judge the former save themselves and the latter usually is loyal to the death or not... My bad

Bind them all and let the God Emperor sort them out

Each Warmaster currently on Crusade would probably build his own empire in his conquered nearby space. Ultramar would be humanities best hope post-Imperium, along with most Sectors with First-Second Founding Chapters.

Segmentum Pacficus would go to hell in a hand basket, Macaroth would probably just cut his losses in the Sabbat Worlds and bunker down on what he owned.

Alright, time to clear up some misunderstandings.

Firstly, a psychic backlash that blows back the Chaos Powers and the Hive Mind won't kill every Human in the galaxy. The inspiration for this is Saint Sabbat's tomb on Hagia; when the psychic device under it was activated, every Chaos-touched Human on the mountain was incinerated. The Golden Throne is a psychic device and a tomb. The Terminus Decree that is supposed to be used for the last moment could do just that, unleash the collective power of countless psykers sacrificed to power the device over the millennia, focused by the Emperor in His last moments (for this iteration) to destroy every Chaos-touched Human in the galaxy, banish all daemons in real space, and blow back the Chaos Powers and the Hive Mind.

Second, only Astropaths are soul-bound by the Emperor. Librarians of Epistolary rank and above can and do perform astro-telepathy without the Rite of Soul Binding. And Navigator families, while bound to larger clans, are already part of fleets, both Astartes and Imperial Navy. While the Navis Nobilite would cease to exist as an organization, the Navigator Houses already bound to Chapters and Fleets will continue to serve in the post-Imperial Age of Warring States (note the ancient Chinese historical period; quite an apt analogue, as once the Emperor reincarnates, Unity will be restored).

Third, the Astronomican. While the loss of it will make long-range warp jumps (>100 light years, I guess) almost impossible, shot-range warp jumps will still be possible. So this will result in small, heavily-fortified, but prosperous (especially if the Astartes/Imperial Guard/Imperial Navy are in charge) 'pocket empires'. With contact with Mars gone, individual Forge Worlds will probably throw their allegiance to the nearest Imperial factions. Astartes are especially suited for this, and could set the stage for a new beginning, especially since with the Ecclesiarchy gone, creativity and innovation will flourish anew, and some of the more pragmatic and liberal Chapters (Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Raven Guard) might be willing to make arrangements with not-so unfriendly xenos races.

I imagine that the systems with a TRULY MASSIVE military presence would survive the inevitable rebellions and such and stay on their feet:

Cadia and Co.
Ultramar

and the like...

hunterinthedarkness wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
Can you provide any fluff reference that supports you view that all psyker inquisitors and librarians are blind with burned out eye sockets? As this is a consequence of the binding process.

They are not bound, at lest in the same way an astropath is. An Astropath is a weaker psyker to start with. They are then trained along one of the pskyer paths and "Bound" the same way to both boost power and give thier weaker willpower a bit old a boost.
Inquisitors psykers have such a strong self control over their own power they are not even "sanctioned " bound for the most part. Same goes with Sm Librains, they do not need the control boost or they would not have been cherry picked, but sent off to becomes sanctioned psykers or astropaths.

The Inquisition and the Space marine chapters only take the very best and those with the best control into the ranks. Those they are found waiting die or are sent elsewhere.

I don't think you read any of either mine or mrwhoop's posts, if you did you would have read that I know this and I was asking mrwhoop to provide any evidence to support his none fluff based claim.

To which I replied that I couldn't and just thought psykers in general were soul bound. Rather I said " My bad" Anyhoo, I'm bowing out, thanks

BluntmanDC wrote:
I don't think you read any of either mine or mrwhoop's posts, if you did you would have read that I know this and I was asking mrwhoop to provide any evidence to support his none fluff based claim.

I am guilty of that. I simply noticed your post above my own and responded to it. I kinda figured you already thought they were not bound and he thought they they indeed went though the binding by your own post. Fluff both GW and for once BL stuff seesm to agree that only those who do not have the fortitude to keep the perils of the warp at bay undergo Sanctioning. It also is clear there are a few types of Sanctioning with Binding being one type.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mrwhoop wrote:To which I replied that I couldn't and just thought psykers in general were soul bound. Rather I said " My bad" Anyhoo, I'm bowing out, thanks

The vast majority are. A few are not, but most in use within the IoM are sanctioned/bound in some way.

Tadashi wrote:Alright, time to clear up some misunderstandings.

Firstly, a psychic backlash that blows back the Chaos Powers and the Hive Mind won't kill every Human in the galaxy. The inspiration for this is Saint Sabbat's tomb on Hagia; when the psychic device under it was activated, every Chaos-touched Human on the mountain was incinerated. The Golden Throne is a psychic device and a tomb. The Terminus Decree that is supposed to be used for the last moment could do just that, unleash the collective power of countless psykers sacrificed to power the device over the millennia, focused by the Emperor in His last moments (for this iteration) to destroy every Chaos-touched Human in the galaxy, banish all daemons in real space, and blow back the Chaos Powers and the Hive Mind.

Second, only Astropaths are soul-bound by the Emperor. Librarians of Epistolary rank and above can and do perform astro-telepathy without the Rite of Soul Binding. And Navigator families, while bound to larger clans, are already part of fleets, both Astartes and Imperial Navy. While the Navis Nobilite would cease to exist as an organization, the Navigator Houses already bound to Chapters and Fleets will continue to serve in the post-Imperial Age of Warring States (note the ancient Chinese historical period; quite an apt analogue, as once the Emperor reincarnates, Unity will be restored).

Third, the Astronomican. While the loss of it will make long-range warp jumps (>100 light years, I guess) almost impossible, shot-range warp jumps will still be possible. So this will result in small, heavily-fortified, but prosperous (especially if the Astartes/Imperial Guard/Imperial Navy are in charge) 'pocket empires'. With contact with Mars gone, individual Forge Worlds will probably throw their allegiance to the nearest Imperial factions. Astartes are especially suited for this, and could set the stage for a new beginning, especially since with the Ecclesiarchy gone, creativity and innovation will flourish anew, and some of the more pragmatic and liberal Chapters (Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Raven Guard) might be willing to make arrangements with not-so unfriendly xenos races.

Were do you think the Blood Ravens would all fall within this Tashadi?

Kain... Really? We may as well call you Loki you trickster...

Alexzandvar wrote:

Tadashi wrote:Alright, time to clear up some misunderstandings.

Firstly, a psychic backlash that blows back the Chaos Powers and the Hive Mind won't kill every Human in the galaxy. The inspiration for this is Saint Sabbat's tomb on Hagia; when the psychic device under it was activated, every Chaos-touched Human on the mountain was incinerated. The Golden Throne is a psychic device and a tomb. The Terminus Decree that is supposed to be used for the last moment could do just that, unleash the collective power of countless psykers sacrificed to power the device over the millennia, focused by the Emperor in His last moments (for this iteration) to destroy every Chaos-touched Human in the galaxy, banish all daemons in real space, and blow back the Chaos Powers and the Hive Mind.

Second, only Astropaths are soul-bound by the Emperor. Librarians of Epistolary rank and above can and do perform astro-telepathy without the Rite of Soul Binding. And Navigator families, while bound to larger clans, are already part of fleets, both Astartes and Imperial Navy. While the Navis Nobilite would cease to exist as an organization, the Navigator Houses already bound to Chapters and Fleets will continue to serve in the post-Imperial Age of Warring States (note the ancient Chinese historical period; quite an apt analogue, as once the Emperor reincarnates, Unity will be restored).

Third, the Astronomican. While the loss of it will make long-range warp jumps (>100 light years, I guess) almost impossible, shot-range warp jumps will still be possible. So this will result in small, heavily-fortified, but prosperous (especially if the Astartes/Imperial Guard/Imperial Navy are in charge) 'pocket empires'. With contact with Mars gone, individual Forge Worlds will probably throw their allegiance to the nearest Imperial factions. Astartes are especially suited for this, and could set the stage for a new beginning, especially since with the Ecclesiarchy gone, creativity and innovation will flourish anew, and some of the more pragmatic and liberal Chapters (Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Raven Guard) might be willing to make arrangements with not-so unfriendly xenos races.

Were do you think the Blood Ravens would all fall within this Tashadi?

Blood Ravens are a fleet-based Chapter. I would imagine they and other fleet-based Chapters, like the Dark Angels with their mobile space fortress, to patrol and serve as protectors and overseers of large swathes of space, probably around their recruiting worlds, and surrounding sectors if they can push it; marches, I think is what they are called.