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I have a very scientific background. I know that AIDS is not tramsmitted by touch. I know that I don't have to wash my hands afterwards, etc, but...

I have twice had dealings at work with someone I know has AIDS, due to confidential meetings about a relative of hers that I have to attend. She does not know that I know. Now, whenever I finish a meeting with someone and show them out, I always offer my hand for a handshake. The first time I met this woman, I was unable to offer, despite what I know about AIDS, to make myself shake her hand. It was pure, irrational fear, and it made me ashamed. I told myself that if we met again, I would not be so rude as to not shake hands the same way I do with everyone else. The second time, I offered my hand, and we briefly shook hands. I then went and washed my hands. I didn't feel bad about washing my hands, but I still knew it was irrational, and I did not need to.

I can't really talk to anyone at work about this, as I can't tell people that this woman has AIDS, but I wonder - do people think I am out of order for even feeling this way? How would you respond in this situation? I already know it is completely irrational, so no need to tell me that, but I also think that this particular illness has so much stigma attached to it that very few people can be rational about it.

Anyway, thoughst please - I can't quite work this one out, so I think discussing it may help me sort it out in my head.

Yes you are out of order. If you know you will be fine doing it, why are you afraid?

I know in my head that I will be fine, but my gut reaction says different.

Great White wrote:Yes you are out of order. If you know you will be fine doing it, why are you afraid?

It's an irrational fear.
He knows there is no risk touching someone with AIDS but AIDS effectively has the connotation of a death sentence even today.
IMO the best thing would be to just relax and remind yourself again and again that there isn't a risk from simply touching her...

You're self awareness is to you're credit, but you're actions are kinda wrong. Gut reactions are difficult to overcome but they can be overcome, I can't imagine you would be alone in thinking like this if other people were put in the same situation, however you really do need to get over it.

Kudos for having the spuds to admit feeling like this.

Well, I have overcome my gut reaction to a certain extent by shaking hands with her. Not easy though. Before I (knowingly) met someone with AIDS or HIV+, I always assumed I'd find it easy to shake hands, etc, but it was harder than I expected. I wonder if others in this thread have actually been in this situation and just shaken hands without even thinking about it, or if it is a purly abstract thing for you right now? Or does anyone who may read this thread actually know someone with AIDS? I'd have thought on a board with this many people, someone must.

I think Purplefood has it right.

It's like with spiders. You know they aren't dangerous (unless you're living in Australia I guess ), yet you still dislike touching them or freak out when you discover one sitting one on a wall next to your bed. It's a human thing that seems to be connected with genetic memory, and in this one case it sounds as if Fifty subconsciously made a similar connection.

Just like any irrational fear it can be overcome with time and will. Increased exposure will probably help?

I know someone whose Mum has it, I've never actually met the Mum though, so its really just an abstract idea. I have met people with Hep, and didn't really have a problem except a little extra vigilance watching what they did with cutlery etc. but its not the same thing.

I have often wondered how I would react, and part of me feels that I would've acted the same way. Hope you can learn to deal with it.

Fifty wrote:Well, I have overcome my gut reaction to a certain extent by shaking hands with her. Not easy though. Before I (knowingly) met someone with AIDS or HIV+, I always assumed I'd find it easy to shake hands, etc, but it was harder than I expected. I wonder if others in this thread have actually been in this situation and just shaken hands without even thinking about it, or if it is a purly abstract thing for you right now? Or does anyone who may read this thread actually know someone with AIDS? I'd have thought on a board with this many people, someone must.

Or, I suddenly realise, does anyone on the board have AIDS? If they want to talk about it - how does my admission make you feel? Are you used to such a response, or does it make you feel bad every time? Or do you simply not care?

Lynata wrote:It's like with spiders.

I was about to say.

You're no more to blame than the hordes of men who squeal like a when they see anything on 8 legs.

Generally speaking, people with AIDS and other STD's tend to have a sort of "stigma" about them. They can't help it, but a lot of people tend to have the mindset of "oh, they must be dirty because they have this disease", or "if they were cleaner, they might not be affected by this disease."

While this might be true in a few cases, these cases are not the majority.

I always try and wash my hands or use hand sanitizer after shaking hands with anyone, simply because they might have a cold or flu.

The only time i purposely didn't shake hands or interact with someone who had an STD was when the individual was my co-worker.

He was a rather slovenly fellow who had chlamydia and a nasty habit of not washing his hands, especially after using the restroom.

The main reason was the fact that he didn't was his hands, but the fact that he had the clap certainly firmed my decision.

Other than that, I always have done my best to overlook it.

I work in an ER, and thanks to our electronic medical records I know the history of every single patient I take care of.

Due to our population we have a large number of patients that have AIDS. And I don't treat them any differently than anybody else. Universal precautions in healthcare has us treating anybody as if they may have AIDS anyway, so it is really no big deal. Most of our patients even let us know as soon as we walk into the room "Hey, just to let you know I am AIDS positive". I usually thank them for letting me know, and the special treatment ends there.

We do have a nurse who has been a nurse longer than dirt. Before she even goes into a room with an AIDS patient she puts on two pairs of gloves, an isolation gown, a mask, and safety goggles. We always look at her like she is crazy. First of all you don't need that level of protection unless you are planing on being elbow deep in surgery, and even then you would be dressed that way for everybody. And second it makes the patient feel like a leper that nobody even wants to be in the same room with.

She works a different shift than me, and the last time I followed her and took over one of her patients with AIDS I went into the room, introduced myself, shook his hand, and sat down on the computer in the room to ask him a couple of questions and chart that I am taking over care of him.

Apparently going into the room and touching this person was such a shock that she came back into the room, leaned towards me and whispered into my ear "He has AIDS!". I just looked at her and replied in a normal voice so the patient can hear "Why are you whispering, I am pretty sure he knows that he has AIDS. It's not a secret." The patient cracked up and we got along just fine.

Shake her hand, it really will not kill you.

d-usa wrote:I just looked at her and replied in a normal voice so the patient can hear "Why are you whispering, I am pretty sure he knows that he has AIDS. It's not a secret." The patient cracked up and we got along just fine.

You are awesome

I really dislike shaking any womans hand. They are always so limp and clammy I am afraid I am going to crush it or something..... I donno.....



Now back to topic. I don't do any that makes me uncomfortable if I can help it, Whats wrong with not shaking anyone's hand? That way you are treating everyone the same and you don't have to deal with the woman with aids.

D-USA, that was a great post. The whole thing was very true and oneofthe worthiest posts on Dakka. My dad USA doc and acts the same way, and my aunt has friends with AIDS and has shared water bottles with them, to no ill effect. Treat them lie anyone else-because they are just that: somebody.

Man up and shake her hand. Notting is gonna happen

Don't look at her as an AIDS victim, look at her as a fellow human. Small comforts/good deeds to those in need are the ones that count. Get over your discomfort. It isn't easy, I get that. Focus on how good being kind is.

" It was pure, irrational fear"

Well, the definition of irrational is it doesn't make sense You obviously recognize it's silly and now the adult thing to do, as you know, is to put it aside.

It wouldn't bother me, ive had syphilis, herpes, gonorrhoea and crabs.. My diseases would eat that AIDS gak for breakfast!

mattyrm wrote:It wouldn't bother me, ive had syphilis, herpes, gonorrhoea and crabs.. My diseases would eat that AIDS gak for breakfast!

Sounds like a hell of a weekend.

d-usa wrote:I work in an ER, and thanks to our electronic medical records I know the history of every single patient I take care of.

Due to our population we have a large number of patients that have AIDS. And I don't treat them any differently than anybody else. Universal precautions in healthcare has us treating anybody as if they may have AIDS anyway, so it is really no big deal. Most of our patients even let us know as soon as we walk into the room "Hey, just to let you know I am AIDS positive". I usually thank them for letting me know, and the special treatment ends there.

We do have a nurse who has been a nurse longer than dirt. Before she even goes into a room with an AIDS patient she puts on two pairs of gloves, an isolation gown, a mask, and safety goggles. We always look at her like she is crazy. First of all you don't need that level of protection unless you are planing on being elbow deep in surgery, and even then you would be dressed that way for everybody. And second it makes the patient feel like a leper that nobody even wants to be in the same room with.

She works a different shift than me, and the last time I followed her and took over one of her patients with AIDS I went into the room, introduced myself, shook his hand, and sat down on the computer in the room to ask him a couple of questions and chart that I am taking over care of him.

Apparently going into the room and touching this person was such a shock that she came back into the room, leaned towards me and whispered into my ear "He has AIDS!". I just looked at her and replied in a normal voice so the patient can hear "Why are you whispering, I am pretty sure he knows that he has AIDS. It's not a secret." The patient cracked up and we got along just fine.

Shake her hand, it really will not kill you.

You just made my day, thank you

It reminded me of the part of Che Guevara's Motorcycle Diaries where he and his friend visit a Leper colony to help out (they were both doctors). The colony was run by nuns (as they often were back in the 50s) who treated the lepers just as your nurse treated the AIDS patient. The first thing Che did when he was being introduced to the patients was shake their hand without wearing gloves, which came as a shock to the lepers. Later on he even got involved in football (or soccer if you prefer) matches with them and swam across the river to their side of the bank to be with them on his last night, even though it could have killed him with his asthma.

Treat people like human beings and strive to overcome irrational fears and prejudice Even if you do it in small steps, as long as you are trying.

Great story, D-usa!

Fifty, I know what you're talking about. I felt it too, the first couple of times, though thankfully was able to ovecome it, treat the people normally and shake their hands like anyone else.

It's an irrational fear and revulson, and it's really a question of mastering that fear, whether you use manliness or empathy toward another human being as your fuel. I used both.

I generally assume I have most symptomless yet fatal diseases so I can't say it would bother me.

Fifty wrote:I have a very scientific background. I know that AIDS is not tramsmitted by touch. I know that I don't have to wash my hands afterwards, etc, but...

I have twice had dealings at work with someone I know has AIDS, due to confidential meetings about a relative of hers that I have to attend. She does not know that I know. Now, whenever I finish a meeting with someone and show them out, I always offer my hand for a handshake. The first time I met this woman, I was unable to offer, despite what I know about AIDS, to make myself shake her hand. It was pure, irrational fear, and it made me ashamed. I told myself that if we met again, I would not be so rude as to not shake hands the same way I do with everyone else. The second time, I offered my hand, and we briefly shook hands. I then went and washed my hands. I didn't feel bad about washing my hands, but I still knew it was irrational, and I did not need to.

I can't really talk to anyone at work about this, as I can't tell people that this woman has AIDS, but I wonder - do people think I am out of order for even feeling this way? How would you respond in this situation? I already know it is completely irrational, so no need to tell me that, but I also think that this particular illness has so much stigma attached to it that very few people can be rational about it.

Anyway, thoughst please - I can't quite work this one out, so I think discussing it may help me sort it out in my head.

The disconnect between head and heart is the most difficult to overcome. Rationally there is no risk, but our little lizard brain screams bloody murder and takes over sending us into fits of irrationality. You can overcome it by exposing yourself to the situation until it becomes natural, but in this instance that seems impractical. Perhaps the old method of overcoming fear of public speaking by imagining the crowd in their underwear could be adapted to your needs? Or would it be practical to have a private sit down with this person and discuss with them your fears? Failing that perhaps there is a local outreach or charity that may be able to help you overcome the fear. That is all I can come up with, and I hope it helps

My brother in law is HIV+. I see him about five times a year. We hug when he arrives and leaves. My wife still bleaches the holy hell out of the bathroom and tosses any foodstuffs he was in contact though.

Be damn careful, but treat them like a human being.

@timetowaste85, sharing a water bottle? That's Balls-out nuts!

HIV dies pretty dang quickly once it is out of the body, and is actually pretty hard to catch. Hepatitis C is a lot more prevalent, lives outside the body forever, and is a lot easier to catch that the HIV. But it doesn't have the same stigma, so people freak out about it less.

Worst thing I caught so far has been tuberculosis. That was a fun 6 months on meds, and for all I know I could have been exposed to a MDR-strand so the meds did nothing anyway except screw up my liver for 4 years.

Nocturn wrote:Generally speaking, people with AIDS and other STD's tend to have a sort of "stigma" about them.

The interesting thing here is that people will have sex with a stranger with or without protection, running the risk of catching the very diseases people do get stigmatized for.

If HIV could be spread easily through contact there would have been a worldwide epidemic by now. The virus has been in the population since the 1980s.

It's easy to tell people to overcome their irrational fears but it's not so easy to do in practice.

You seem to have made a good start, though, as you did shake hands even though you washed afterwards.

Perhaps we should do like the Japanese and bow rather than shaking hands.

This TV clip may provide inspiration.

I'd assume it's a primal instinct, and not your fault directly.

For example, the media today will often choose dramatic stories, for example, shark attacks. Children are exposed to this, and develop the mindset that sharks are terrible, even if they want to believe that they are mostly harmless.

Likewise, through the theory of evolution we can assume that rather than trying to treat and care for ill people, they were shunned away to ensure survival. People with AIDS would be considered a rather huge hindrance, and would be repelled more than others.