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Pretty much what it says in the title. IG heavy weapon teams can take almost every weapon in the armory except multilasers. Seems like it'd be the perfect thing for a weapon emplacement, I know i would use them. Maybe make them 10Pts and bump the heavy bolter down to 5pts for a heavy weapon team ( hvy bolter free and multilaser 5pts for a heavy weapon squad) That, or just make multilasers cost the same as a mortar and keep the bolter where its at, make heavy bolters and multilasers the same cost, I dunno. thats not really what this thread is about.

Is there a specific fluff reason or something I'm not aware of, or has anyone else noticed this too? I just find it odd that we have everything but them available.

Fluff-wise, they require a power source that is not man-portable. Yes, they take more power than lascannons.

DarknessEternal wrote:Fluff-wise, they require a power source that is not man-portable. Yes, they take more power than lascannons.

It might also be because a heavy weapons team can't exactly carry said source around like heavy bolter and autocannon ammo packs.

Space marines? Yes. Imperial guardsman? No.

Well they also shoot rather rapidly thus even while each shot would take up less power than a lascannon the idea of trying to carry around enough power cells to keep it going effectively just isn't worth it. Not when they have stuff like the heavy bolter.

I think it worked out to something like a lascannon gets off about 2-3 shots per pack, not too sure on that.

Realistically it may be a balance thing as I can imagine it could quickly become like the Eldar's scatter laser spam on steroids.

Imperial Guard can't carry any of their stuff around, lol. Not in two man teams at least. The weapons are giganourmous. I find it hard to believe that there'd be any way for two men to carry a heavy weapon with component parts larger than they are. Even more so in the case of weapons with high ammunition expenditure like stubbers, autocannons and heavy bolters. When I finally get around to converting my 2E/3E IGuard to 5th edition with teams, my teams will be three models.

But I'd imagine there are two reasons: Imperial Guard have never carried multi-lasers as man-portable heavy weapons. Even back in Rogue Trader (when Space Marines still could) IIRC. And then the fluff reason that they'd probably require a power source or capacitors that was (even more) non-portable.

Because it'd 1) Break the Codex. That single component could destroy it all. And 2) it's pretty nonsensical. Your soldiers would be carrying a weapon that is not only several times larger than them, but with every single pack that you'll need, plus the fact that with that huge torrent of fire, it'll be far harder to keep cool than on a vehicle, and your Guard will probably burst into flames.

I thought they could take them last book?

The only thing is though, when you look at the chimera or even the sentinel mounted multilaser, its not bigger, it's SMALLER than a lascannon, and the guardsmen can carry those just fine apparently (even though they're the size of a friggin telephone pole)

As for the ammo bit, if they use a dedicated backpack power source couldn't that even it out? The multilaser power source on a sentinel literally looks like 3 lascannon batteries bolted together. It shouldnt be too hard to make a power pack that the loader wears to power the weapon. It wouldnt be any bigger than the ginormous vox casters some guys wear.

MrMoustaffa wrote:The only thing is though, when you look at the chimera or even the sentinel mounted multilaser, its not bigger, it's SMALLER than a lascannon, and the guardsmen can carry those just fine apparently (even though they're the size of a friggin telephone pole)

As for the ammo bit, if they use a dedicated backpack power source couldn't that even it out? The multilaser power source on a sentinel literally looks like 3 lascannon batteries bolted together. It shouldnt be too hard to make a power pack that the loader wears to power the weapon. It wouldnt be any bigger than the ginormous vox casters some guys wear.

Heat would apparently still be a fairly large problem...

purplefood wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:The only thing is though, when you look at the chimera or even the sentinel mounted multilaser, its not bigger, it's SMALLER than a lascannon, and the guardsmen can carry those just fine apparently (even though they're the size of a friggin telephone pole)

As for the ammo bit, if they use a dedicated backpack power source couldn't that even it out? The multilaser power source on a sentinel literally looks like 3 lascannon batteries bolted together. It shouldnt be too hard to make a power pack that the loader wears to power the weapon. It wouldnt be any bigger than the ginormous vox casters some guys wear.

Heat would apparently still be a fairly large problem...

And when your Guardsmen have Gets Hot! HWS with 3 Shots each, you'll know how awful that is.

That would be pretty funny to watch an entire heavy squad fry itself in the opening volley, as long as it was for the opponent. However I doubt they'd make it "gets hot", they only do that for plasma weapons in IG. Now if we could take plasma cannons, that would be rediculous/hilarious/broken all wrapped up into one.

The real answer? It just wasn't an option originally in days of yore when it was at one point a much more fearsome weapon (it has been mightily toned down), so they didn't include it in any of the kits and thus they haven't made it an option since.

Right. The more pertinent question is why would you want to take multilasers in infantry squads? They're pretty crappy weapons. They'd be just another heavy weapon I'd pass on in favor of autocannons, missile launchers, or lascannons.

MrMoustaffa wrote:That would be pretty funny to watch an entire heavy squad fry itself in the opening volley, as long as it was for the opponent. However I doubt they'd make it "gets hot", they only do that for plasma weapons in IG. Now if we could take plasma cannons, that would be rediculous/hilarious/broken all wrapped up into one.

But surely a weapon that's firing several hundred searing hot lasers a minute will get quite hot, no?

I think the heat dissipation issue seems to be the most reasonable "fluffy" explanation for it. A vehicle could easily have extensive internal cooling mechanisms in place that wouldn't be feasible for a ground team to carry.

This thread has however, reminded/convinced me that for my Rogue Trader inspired Space Marine conversion plog that I need to make a Marine carrying a Multi-laser (counts as heavy bolter). Dammit. Back to Ebay for more bits, lol. Wish I'd thought of this a few days ago before I made my last order.

Fluff wise how would it get hot? Get hot is for plasma guns, as the technology is not 100% known. Or something close to that...maybe someone who knows fluff better can correct me if m wrong.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Because it'd 1) Break the Codex.

Out of Curiousity how?

I just don't feel there is a reason or need. Along with the fact that they have too big of a power source to be carried.

Ailaros wrote:Right. The more pertinent question is why would you want to take multilasers in infantry squads? They're pretty crappy weapons. They'd be just another heavy weapon I'd pass on in favor of autocannons, missile launchers, or lascannons.

Anti-infantry work primarily. Against anything with a 6+/3+/2+ sv and 4+/5+troops in cover the Multilaser is superior to a Heavy Bolter, and can penetrate AV11 vehicles as well so does double-duty better.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:

MrMoustaffa wrote:That would be pretty funny to watch an entire heavy squad fry itself in the opening volley, as long as it was for the opponent. However I doubt they'd make it "gets hot", they only do that for plasma weapons in IG. Now if we could take plasma cannons, that would be rediculous/hilarious/broken all wrapped up into one.

But surely a weapon that's firing several hundred searing hot lasers a minute will get quite hot, no?

The weapon itself? Not necessarily, certainly not more than a hand-held microwave heat cannon or an anti-tank energy beam weapon or the like

Ailaros wrote:Right. The more pertinent question is why would you want to take multilasers in infantry squads? They're pretty crappy weapons. They'd be just another heavy weapon I'd pass on in favor of autocannons, missile launchers, or lascannons.

I agree.

The multi laser sucks.

So there's a couple things that come to mind, most of which have already been touched upon:

- Battery wear
It's been a while, but I seem to recall that rapidly loading/unloading a battery will actually kill it faster than a single sustained load will. As such, the multilaser could actually be more costly to fire per volley.

- Power drain and Cooling
Just because of the fact that the weapon has less strength doesn't mean it draws less electricity. Perhaps multilasers require bulky or expensive (power-consumption wise) active cooling to allow for such a high rate of fire? We don't know anything about the technology, so we can only speculate.

- Model not accounted for
Outside of a 'fluffy' explanation, simply because there had never been one? Same reason why you can't get autocannons on SM but CSM have man-portable Reaper autocannons.

Because they're 1 strength higher than Heavy Bolters, so how would you cost them?
You'd have to scrap HBs altogether and make them the same points cost as Missile Launcher/autocannon, and therefore useless. They just don't have a niche on HWT.

UMGuy wrote:Fluff wise how would it get hot? Get hot is for plasma guns, as the technology is not 100% known. Or something close to that...maybe someone who knows fluff better can correct me if m wrong.

I'd assume that the huge amounts of fire, plus the massive activity in the power unit, would lead up to basically a horrific heat build up.

BlapBlapBlap wrote:Because it'd 1) Break the Codex.

Out of Curiousity how?

I just don't feel there is a reason or need. Along with the fact that they have too big of a power source to be carried.

You guys grossly miss-understand GW's approach to the fluff when they're writing rules.

Joey wrote:Because they're 1 strength higher than Heavy Bolters, so how would you cost them?
You'd have to scrap HBs altogether and make them the same points cost as Missile Launcher/autocannon, and therefore useless. They just don't have a niche on HWT.

You could do one of those awkward things where you make them 7 points. Of course, then you're stuck taking a multiple of 5-10 of them to make the points come out even. Painful especially in one of the few army books that has just about everything be a multiple of 5.

daedalus wrote:

Joey wrote:Because they're 1 strength higher than Heavy Bolters, so how would you cost them?
You'd have to scrap HBs altogether and make them the same points cost as Missile Launcher/autocannon, and therefore useless. They just don't have a niche on HWT.

You could do one of those awkward things where you make them 7 points. Of course, then you're stuck taking a multiple of 5-10 of them to make the points come out even. Painful especially in one of the few army books that has just about everything be a multiple of 5.

...hence why they're not in. Autocannons are over-priced by a point or two, so hardly anyone takes them. If multi-lasers were in they would compete with either Heavy Bolters (which they are one point stronger in strength on, therefore making the HB invalid), or Autocannon/Missile Launcher, which they are much weaker than and would never be picked.

Right, multilasers aren't substantially different enough from heavy bolters. Probably why on the only other place you can take a multilaser, you can take a heavy bolter instead for free.

If multilasers became S3 Heavy 6 weapons or S6 heavy 1 Ap1 Melta, or something actually different then perhaps there would be something doing here.

Otherwise, it's sort of like asking why guard infantry squads couldn't spend points to give the squad a heavy stubber.

Though I think I agree that tradition is probably closest to the actual reason. It otherwise doesn't make sense to have all of two units being able to take one in an army otherwise swathed in heavy bolters.

I've wondered this too. Honestly Multilasers would be more useful than heavy bolters, since most targets will be in cover, and the additional strength means 2+ to wound most targets. The wound saturation would definitely be worth it.

And based on other upgrades, a multilaser should cost the SAME as a heavy bolter, since its +1 str but -2 ap.

Joey wrote:

daedalus wrote:

Joey wrote:Because they're 1 strength higher than Heavy Bolters, so how would you cost them?
You'd have to scrap HBs altogether and make them the same points cost as Missile Launcher/autocannon, and therefore useless. They just don't have a niche on HWT.

You could do one of those awkward things where you make them 7 points. Of course, then you're stuck taking a multiple of 5-10 of them to make the points come out even. Painful especially in one of the few army books that has just about everything be a multiple of 5.

...hence why they're not in. Autocannons are over-priced by a point or two, so hardly anyone takes them. If multi-lasers were in they would compete with either Heavy Bolters (which they are one point stronger in strength on, therefore making the HB invalid), or Autocannon/Missile Launcher, which they are much weaker than and would never be picked.

I'm sorry, but WHAT? Autocannons are by FAR the most popular option for HWS.

My real question is why can't HWS take Heavy Stubbers at the same price as mortars? It seems fair enough and I would like it.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:My real question is why can't HWS take Heavy Stubbers at the same price as mortars? It seems fair enough and I would like it.

Heavy Stubbers aren't good at killing anything that lasguns aren't (except Taloses I suppose). Who cares?

Cos the Blodd Revans Spess Mureens are usin them allz

MULTILASOR!!!!