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I think it's safe to say that the Chaos gods are stronger than the emperor. if this is true, why are the forces of chaos held at bay by the emperor? seems to me that if Chaos is as strong as it claims to be, they'd have no problem breaking through the emperor's will and invading the Imperium. but this doesn't happen, why not?

Actually I would say the opposite, it is NOT safe to say that. The Emperor was considered by the Chaos gods to be a major threat which was the entire reason the HH occured.

actually yeah, lexicanum states that the gods need mortals' emotions for power and to exist. forgot about that. guess they just talk big game. but if they could make it on their own and didn't need mortals, it'd be a whole different ball game.

Chaos also is much weaker in real space than they are in the Warp as well.

I hope no Chaos boys see this thread

I always pictured it as the Emperor as not as strong as them, but a bit more crafty. Warns the Imperium of an incursion by chaos with through the Tarort, maybe smooths the warp for the ships that are responding and a little psychic trickery to help key figures in the fight survive.

The "Shield" that he Project is a combination of the his activity in the warp and a little psychic essence of himself he leave in each loyal human to help fight off the corruption of chaos.

IMHO of course.

The power Chaos posses is also under constant change. Sometimes their power and influence is strong, giving the chaos gods a strong hand to interact with the material universe. While at other times their power decreases, thus weakening them and their diabolic servants.

One can also speculate, that the chaos gods are not powerful enough to interact with the material universe directly, preferring instead to wage wars through their proxies and servants.

Wonder what it would be like if the gods ever tried to take the Emperor out themselves? Perhaps something like this?

could they survive outside the warp? if not, maybe that's why they haven't tried it.

Eighteen Wheeler wrote:could they survive outside the warp? if not, maybe that's why they haven't tried it.

We know a Deamon lord left the warp having fought the a/the chaos gods and having lost (thus died) his army also left the warp and housed his body in a planet sized coffin, the whole planet was inscribed with symbols from continant sized to the molecular level.

so if the corpse of a god can leave the warp with all its followers, then the 1 of the big 4 probebly can too

Formosa wrote:

Eighteen Wheeler wrote:could they survive outside the warp? if not, maybe that's why they haven't tried it.

We know a Deamon lord left the warp having fought the a/the chaos gods and having lost (thus died) his army also left the warp and housed his body in a planet sized coffin, the whole planet was inscribed with symbols from continant sized to the molecular level.

so if the corpse of a god can leave the warp with all its followers, then the 1 of the big 4 probebly can too

I think there are some rules that the God's must also play by as well, much like the Greek gods had to back in their day. It would make sense that inside the warp and the Eye of Terror the Chaos Gods have near unlimited power, but venturing out from it costs them considerable amounts of energy which is why it takes so much effort just to have their minions come into the material plane. Until they become like the C'tan and are able to put themselves inside of vessels/avatars, they likely cannot venture far from the place that gives them life. It's pretty much as simple as that. The Chaos Gods are extremely powerful, but over the vast distances of space their power fades and they must resort to those who can be in the material world to do their dirty work.

Redcruisair wrote:The power Chaos posses is also under constant change. Sometimes their power and influence is strong, giving the chaos gods a strong hand to interact with the material universe. While at other times their power decreases, thus weakening them and their diabolic servants.

One can also speculate, that the chaos gods are not powerful enough to interact with the material universe directly, preferring instead to wage wars through their proxies and servants.

Wonder what it would be like if the gods ever tried to take the Emperor out themselves? Perhaps something like this?

They already managed to do this by proxy. Still, in 40k daemonic entities cannot exist in the material world for long. They either have to project a portion of their power trough a human soul ( which is usualy not a permanent solution ) or they have to rely on warpstorms. Since the chaosgods are essentialy "just" extremely powerful, perhaps ( at least in within the warp ) near omnipotent daemons it is likely that they have the same limitations.

Regarding the Eisenhorn example, what left the warp was a corpse, which is, unlike the daemon itself, completely material. The daemonsking's followers were either mortal beings ( not quite likely ) or they had some kind of support, like a warpstorms/ warprift/ lots of sacrifices/ whatever.

Why would the Chaos Gods want to destroy the Emperor now? They've got lots of toys to play with, now that the Imperium is the way it is... It's all part of the game.

yep the chaos gods have acieved there utopia lol

Formosa wrote:yep the chaos gods have acieved there utopia lol

By being mercilessly persecuted and stamped out the moment they appear to have any sort of influence?
Funny sort of utopia.

From my understanding the Chaos gods are extremely powerful in the warp, and even can manage to get a hold of a body of a greater daemon, much like the greater daemon takes a human through, I don't think the gods want to come out and play though, that'd be too much work. It'd be like if Gork and Mork came out to play, just so much carnage, however I think Khorne coming would be much worse for whoever they were fighting

Joey wrote:

Formosa wrote:yep the chaos gods have acieved there utopia lol

By being mercilessly persecuted and stamped out the moment they appear to have any sort of influence?
Funny sort of utopia.

lol it is a funny sort of utopia, but a utopia for them non the less

i will explain, chaos turns up somewhere and causes... well chaos, the imp comes over and either A: smashes them around and wins B: they lose and the world is now forever corrupted by chaos
both are win/win for the chaos gods, as both cause massive strife pain desease and intrigue.

this will never change and the chaos gods can continue to thrive on the decaying imperium, it wouldnt supprise me if say.. the nids became too much a threat to chaos's foodsource, that they would direct there full power to wiping them out

Joey wrote:

Formosa wrote:yep the chaos gods have acieved there utopia lol

By being mercilessly persecuted and stamped out the moment they appear to have any sort of influence?
Funny sort of utopia.

'Looks at the Eye of Terror, Maelstrom, and all the astartes that have fallen over the past ten millennia' Oh yes, they are totally stamped out and crushed, and apparently have no strength at all. I wonder why the Emperor made the Grey Knights, clearly the rest of the Imperium has it covered.

Really? They're hated and the Imperium attempts to destroy them, but Chaos gains new followers every time you turn around. The traitor guard, alone... How do you think Huron got so strong so fast? It wasn't because his 200 marines reproduced geneseed at a phenomenal rate, I can tell you that. That's their utopia - the Imperium provides both steady recruits and a source of constant conflict the can amuse themselves with.

Eighteen Wheeler wrote:I think it's safe to say that the Chaos gods are stronger than the emperor. if this is true, why are the forces of chaos held at bay by the emperor? seems to me that if Chaos is as strong as it claims to be, they'd have no problem breaking through the emperor's will and invading the Imperium. but this doesn't happen, why not?

If the Chaos gods could actually stop fighting each other long enough to achieve a cohesive whole, they probably could. But it's in their nature to fight each other and everything else. For the most part, the present situation suits them just fine. Plenty of stuff to play with, plenty of things to do.

Joey wrote:

Formosa wrote:yep the chaos gods have acieved there utopia lol

By being mercilessly persecuted and stamped out the moment they appear to have any sort of influence?
Funny sort of utopia.

Well Slannesh seems to enjoy it

Grey Templar wrote:

Joey wrote:

Formosa wrote:yep the chaos gods have acieved there utopia lol

By being mercilessly persecuted and stamped out the moment they appear to have any sort of influence?
Funny sort of utopia.

Well Slannesh seems to enjoy it

Pleasure through pain! Bring me moar combat drgzzz

Chaos does do well with objectives.. and direction.. and stuff.

There's also the problem of all four of them turning on each other and squabbling and whatnot.

Also the emperor is only keeping them at bay not destroying them. It would take far more power to outright destroy them.

I think (If they could come into the materium) That they would be hesitant to. This would probably would require them to expand a massive amount of energy, and would leave them vulnerable to the other 3, which would take advantage of the weakened state of the chaos god in question.

The Reason Chaos can only do small scale inseructions is because the Emperor is simontaniously guideing the Astromatition ( Steery light thingy in the warp ) and Fighting back Chaos Influence from along the Borders in Space , But Also Consider that The Emperor is Also FIghting the Tyranid hive Mind as well . Over all Chaos may be powerful , but there is no way in hell that they can over take the Emperor .... AVE IMPARATOR

I thought it was that the chaos gods are always fighting each other, and really don't care that much for our dimension at all. Im sure if they all pushed they could.

Sasori wrote:I think (If they could come into the materium) That they would be hesitant to. This would probably would require them to expand a massive amount of energy, and would leave them vulnerable to the other 3, which would take advantage of the weakened state of the chaos god in question.

Pretty accurate. They probably could come in to the other universe/dimension, but they'd rather do it in bits and peices as daemons than with their full power.

carlos13th wrote:Also the emperor is only keeping them at bay not destroying them. It would take far more power to outright destroy them.

I'm surprised he can even hold them at bay. with the way the Chaos boys talk about how weak the emperor is, you'd think he couldn't even do that. that's the point of my question - if they always say they can break him like a twig, why don't they already?

1) For the same reason they're not likely to enter realspace - too much effort (yes, it would take effort), not enough return.

2) Why do they need to do it when they have twenty corruptible primarchs who can do it for them?

3) It is possible that the Emperor had built enough of his Webway to hide from the rampaging Chaos Gods if they actually came to realspace. Kinda like the Dark Eldar hide from Slaanesh in their little pocket of the Webway.

I'm not just talking about the four powers, I get why they couldn't do it themselves. I'm talking about all of their followers in the universe too. they act like they're perfectly capable of it but always talk smack and never actually try it.

Abbaddon tries it, but he doesn't succeed simply because Chaos never fully unites. The Despoiler gets closest because he gets the most support of any warlord of Chaos, but the majority of Chaos Marines blow him off and go fight their own wars instead.