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Hi!

1. Are old models still allowed for tournament play when Games Work Shop has released new different looking models? And if so..is it frowned upon to use old stuff?

Tomb spyders instead of canpotek spyder for example. The height is different for TLOS....

2. If old models are allowed for use...is "customized" (home made) new wargear allowed?

For example whip coils....

Thanks

Yes, in general. Old models are still legal for use. The only time you tend to get players looking askance is when the size difference is major, and gives a really noticable game advantage.

Of course, if you're playing at a tournament, it's nice and simple. Just ask the organizer beforehand.

You won't find anything about this in the rulebook, so the only way to get a definite answer is to ask the TO.

Just use common sense as a guide for what to expect. Using an old Space Marine captain won't cause problems, but using an old Eldar Avatar (which is smaller than a modern Space Marine) would.

Using Old Terminators, the old trukks from Gorka Morka, and things like Old Hive Tyrands / Ghazgkull / Avatars are generally frowned upon.

Only by gamers so anal-retentive that they were toilet trained at gunpoint - or by GW staff (same difference).

chromedog wrote:Only by gamers so anal-retentive that they were toilet trained at gunpoint - or by GW staff (same difference).

In a friendly game I wouldn't care, but would ask that all LoS be treated like it was a new model.
In a tournament I'd absolutely be annoyed that such a small model was being used. There's a massive advantage to that.

Yes, they generally are still legal, just double check with the TO at any tournaments.

rigeld2 wrote:

chromedog wrote:Only by gamers so anal-retentive that they were toilet trained at gunpoint - or by GW staff (same difference).

In a friendly game I wouldn't care, but would ask that all LoS be treated like it was a new model.
In a tournament I'd absolutely be annoyed that such a small model was being used. There's a massive advantage to that.

I have quite a lot of old Chaos Terminators on the smaller bases and I can think of the advantage of moving in areas where the bigger bases can't move, but isn't it a huge disadvange that the smaller bases take more hits from flamer templates and blast markers?

Chaospling wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

chromedog wrote:Only by gamers so anal-retentive that they were toilet trained at gunpoint - or by GW staff (same difference).

In a friendly game I wouldn't care, but would ask that all LoS be treated like it was a new model.
In a tournament I'd absolutely be annoyed that such a small model was being used. There's a massive advantage to that.

I have quite a lot of old Chaos Terminators on the smaller bases and I can think of the advantage of moving in areas where the bigger bases can't move, but isn't it a huge disadvange that the smaller bases take more hits from flamer templates and blast markers?

I was more referring to the old Avatar and Hive Tyrant/Carnifexes.

I have an old Ghazzy that is now in charge of my nobs squad. The old MANz are crazy small, but still technically valid. My FLGS has half a dozen still for original prices, so I am seriously considering buying those instead of the stupid finecast at 22USD a model.

I personally love old models as they keep the game interesting and prevent you from seeing identical armies, even if they have identical lists. The old trukk is smaller, but still valid(just be generous with LOS). You will get a very negative response from players in the tournament scene, though.

-cgmckenzie

There's also an official model that is a piece of cardboard (Ork Deff Dread) that you technically can use in a torunament (it's a model from an old starter), but this would be taking it to the extreme.

Crazyterran wrote:Using Old Terminators, the old trukks from Gorka Morka, and things like Old Hive Tyrands / Ghazgkull / Avatars are generally frowned upon.

I don't think old terminators would be a problem, as long as they are on 40mm bases. I have several of them, and they aren't that much smaller. With cover being given if 25% of the model is obscured, it really wouldn't make that much of a difference. The only real advantage I can think of, is that they aren't as expressive, so they have a smaller silhouette, so it might be easier to get them into cover.

cgmckenzie wrote:I have an old Ghazzy that is now in charge of my nobs squad. The old MANz are crazy small, but still technically valid. My FLGS has half a dozen still for original prices, so I am seriously considering buying those instead of the stupid finecast at 22USD a model.

I personally love old models as they keep the game interesting and prevent you from seeing identical armies, even if they have identical lists. The old trukk is smaller, but still valid(just be generous with LOS). You will get a very negative response from players in the tournament scene, though.

-cgmckenzie

No technically about it. They are the only Meganobz models available, and are the 'official' and current ones.

They are batgack crazy small compared to modern nobs though Mega-armour stunts your growth..

Oh my, no. The MANz I am referencing are older, much, much older. They are on 25mm rounds, and are about the size of a regular boy.

When compared to the current MANz, they are absolutely tiny, but still valid.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff146/belong999/Orks/BadMoonOrkNobMegaArmour01.jpg

That is an original MAN.

-cgmckenzie

Oh, those guys..

I remember tham as being Power-armoured nobz though, not Meganobz, but i could be wrong
.
They might make decent cyborks, or ard boyz though..

As long as it is a GW model, no one should give you any grief.

And the avatar in question was built for Epic...

cgmckenzie wrote:Oh my, no. The MANz I am referencing are older, much, much older. They are on 25mm rounds, and are about the size of a regular boy.

When compared to the current MANz, they are absolutely tiny, but still valid.

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff146/belong999/Orks/BadMoonOrkNobMegaArmour01.jpg

That is an original MAN.

-cgmckenzie

Awww, it's so cute....

Does anyone remember the old skinny Chaos obliterators mounted on the 20mm bases?



These guys. As a bit of a more extreme example, the old obliterators were almost 50% the size of the current misshapen Terminator-esque obliterator. Roughly the same height as a power-armored marine, actually, only slightly taller due to the skulls on top.

I've faced those guys a few times. Really cool

IMO, old models are legal. Full Stop. No Ifs, Ands, or Buts.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:As long as it is a GW model, no one should give you any grief.

And the avatar in question was built for Epic...

He means

http://collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:RT-1991-Avatar.jpg

Which is the original RT Avatar.

In my experience.

Old models and converted models are fine, however.

If an opponent thinks the model you have gives you some advantage over the current official model I would not be suprised if he asked you to play it "as if it were the current model"

So models that have become bigger, like ork trucks may have to accept that when 40% in cover they still may not get a cover save

Some models may have a smaller base (like termies) and should be treated as if they have the larger bases for how closely they can pile in

Some models may be bigger then they are now (very rare) and block LOS when they shouldn't (or block LOS with a huge custom banner or a converted giant shield)

Some vehicle models may be remodelled in a way that may effect their fire arcs, you may have to play with the official model fire arcs (flyers with badly placed guns which offer massive blind spots for example, if they are moved or dipped the blind spot should still apply)

As long as you aren't trying to take advantage of the differences in model I doubt there will be a problem, although where the models do offer an advantage be generous to your opponent and don't take it and beware turning up to tourney's without checking first or bringing alternates.

Oh and it should be clear what the model is in the case of conversions. bear WYSIWYG in mind

I'm thinking of how to move my Obliterators from their nicely-decorated 20mm bases to 40mm bases for the sake of fairness... Now, I don't want to have to re-base them all over again, so I'm thinking of maybe cutting up existing 40mm bases and "extending" the size of my current 20mm bases to 40mm bases. Thoughts?

cgmckenzie wrote:http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff146/belong999/Orks/BadMoonOrkNobMegaArmour01.jpg

That is an original MAN.

-cgmckenzie

Nope, that's Nazdreg Ug Urdgrub from 1998:

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1998/1998P391-01.htm

These are the original Meganobs from 1995:

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1995-6/cat19956p093-01.htm


EDIT - Enigwolf - 25mm not 20mm. You can usually get away with sticking them on top of a 40mm base, using some putty or filler to hide the step and add basing material over the top.

(I stand corrected)

Oh, wow. How'd I never think about that before?

Enigwolf wrote:I'm thinking of how to move my Obliterators from their nicely-decorated 20mm bases to 40mm bases for the sake of fairness... Now, I don't want to have to re-base them all over again, so I'm thinking of maybe cutting up existing 40mm bases and "extending" the size of my current 20mm bases to 40mm bases. Thoughts?

No need to cut them up. Simply stick the 20mm bases on top of the 40mm bases - you might need some putty/greenstuff to sit them in though, glue alone might not be sturdy enough.
This does mean they will be taller for line of sight purposes, but is only heading in the right direction if you are genuinely doing it for fairness.

It's an older code, sir, but it checks out.

Watch out for Wookies!

I don't think those were ever GW models. I am prepared to be proven wrong, though.

-cgmckenzie

Twiqbal wrote: It's an older code, sir, but it checks out.

It was a reference to this

For all i knwo they might be GW though, from back when they made stuff for all sorts of systems

Wow, I feel bad for not catching that reference. :(

-cgmckenzie