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I'm about to do markings for one and I'm curious if I should fit it into my guard's regimental numbering scheme or create a naval one.

Navy. Although I believe they're a full part of some regiments, like the Elysians.

All aircraft that aren't Space Marine or the like are operated by the Navy, but there are exceptions to this rule. Notably the Elysian Drop Troops and Stormtrooper Companies both independently operate Valkyries/variants.

I don't think there's any sources to indicate either way. Modern armies incorporate aircraft, as do the US Marines, I see no reason why the IG couldn't incorporate Valkyries as part of it's structure.

I'm wracking my brain, but I can't think of anything definitive.

On the one hand, the guard codex does not state that valkyries are part of the navy, like it does explicitly state of the officer of the fleet. Likewise, most things that come from other organizations are noted. Commissars and stormies from the schola system, primaris psykers and astropaths from their respective ministries, etc. That valkyries aren't said to come from somewhere else, I would assume that they're used as close support vehicles in the guard itself, like russes or sentinels. Perhaps in their own regiment (but perhaps not), but still guard.

Of course, the imperial navy undoubtedly also keeps valkyries. Their primary fighters are thunderhawks, but there are lots of other things that valkyries can do other than dogfighting, which would render them still useful to the imperial navy.

My homebrew regiment has a squadron of Vendetta gunships permanently attached, so they were folded into the regimental TO&E.

Imperial Armor I states that all aircraft (including Valkyries) are operated by the Imperial Navy. I believe it is in keeping with separation of Imperial Navy and Imperial Guard.

For unclear situations, I use this rule of thumb:

Can it operate in space? If yes, Navy. If no, Guard.

The Mad Tanker wrote:Imperial Armor I states that all aircraft (including Valkyries) are operated by the Imperial Navy. I believe it is in keeping with separation of Imperial Navy and Imperial Guard.

True. But there are examples of imperial Guard units being aerial units. Dan Abnett's Double Eagle shows an example of this. The Phantine Air Corps are an Imperial Guard Regiment, but since their home world is all high altitude cities they learn to fly. So they are allowed to operate as allies and don't really fall under the Imperial Navy chain of command.

Quotes for the Quote Throne, Fluff for the Fluff God

"With a few notable exceptions, Valkyries are under the control of the Imperial Navy and are attached to Imperial Guard regiments on an as need basis. Whilst the Valkyrie is operating in concert with the Imperial Guard, the aircraft's pilot reports directly to the regiment's senior officer."
- 5E C:IG

"Organisationally, most Valkyrie formations are part of the Imperial Navy and based on naval assault carriers. They are called on to transport infantry regiments, and rarely serve alongside a ground-based army beyond the scope of a single campaign."
- Liber Apocalyptica : Valkyrie

"The Storm Trooper regiment is one of the few to have a permanent pool of Valkyrie Assault Carriers to carry them into battle."
- Apoc Datasheet : Strike Force

"The Skyshield landing pad used by the Imperial Navy, though originally purpose-built to accomodate Valkyrie and Vendetta gunships, is robust enough to serve even the Thunderhawks of the Adeptus Astartes."
- 5E C:PS

Disclaimer: All of the above is quoted directly from GW studio sources. Due to the franchise's lack of a clearly defined canon, outsourced/licensed material was not consulted. It should be kept in mind, however, that deviating interpretations are equally valid and that it is up to the individual gamer to decide which version of fluff he would prefer for him- or herself.

Wow, there you have it.

I mean, it would still make some sense to have valkyries in guard colors for various reasons, but I guess when in doubt, fleet it out...

In the future they still have Navy??? dont they all hover atleast? 0.o....

Oh, yeah - it doesn't seem to be hard to justify one's own regiment having its own Valkyries. Check out the Liber Apocalyptica article, there's some backstory about a Catachan Valkyrie flight!

Yep, just in space. Space Ships.

n0t_u wrote:Yep, just in space. Space Ships.

But their cockpit doesnt look like it can stand the space vac

LunaHound wrote:

n0t_u wrote:Yep, just in space. Space Ships.

But their cockpit doesnt look like it can stand the space vac

Neither does the rubber seal of a space marine helmet.

Or an Ork wearing a bucket with eyeholes punched in it.

But this is 40k were typing about here.

So to double check, Valkyrie and Vendetta belongs to "space" navy?

All their ships do besides the Space Marine ones. Valks/Vendettas can also fly in from orbit, but they apparently handle much better in atmosphere.

I would have thought that the ground support flyers, like the Valkyrie and the Vendetta, would be owned by the Imperial Guard. The fighters and bombers would be Navy planes.

To be honest it can go either way. A regiment raised on a world/in a system where Valkyrie's, Vendetta's & Vulture's are manufactured may have access to them in lieu of other vehicles such as Chimeras or Leman-Russ tanks, or they may be integral to the way the regiment operates (as others have already mentioned, Elysian Drop Troops).

On the other hand Navy units may be attached temporarily to Imperial Guard units in order to give them additional transport or aerial support.

In other words paint them up however you wish - there is no wrong answer.

They're like titans really; not part of the main force, but people will usually ignore that and paint them as if they were anyway.

n0t_u wrote:All their ships do besides the Space Marine ones.

Nah, there's more. The Adeptus Arbites have their own fleets, and Sororitas fleets have been mentioned as well. And then there's the Astra Telepathica Black Ships. And the Inquisition. And the Adeptus Mechanicus' Explorator vessels.

The Guard is just (by far) the largest branch of the Imperium's armed forces, and as such notable for being completely reliant on the Navy for transportation. Compared to all the other aformentioned adepta with their own ships, Navy vessels carrying Guard elements probably make up about 90% of Imperial interstellar transportation.

Sparks_Havelock wrote:To be honest it can go either way. A regiment raised on a world/in a system where Valkyrie's, Vendetta's & Vulture's are manufactured may have access to them in lieu of other vehicles such as Chimeras or Leman-Russ tanks, or they may be integral to the way the regiment operates (as others have already mentioned, Elysian Drop Troops).

Guard regiments "owning" their own dropships is an exception from the rule, though. Not important for TT gameplay, but still good to keep in mind for the fluff (if one were to go by what it says in the GW books).

But as you said, there is no wrong answer. After all, one's regiment can perfectly well be one of those exceptions, too.

From the various novels and also from the codex, nothing is ever mentioned about Valkyries being able to transition from space to atmosphere. I could be wrong, as I haven't read every IG book there is. Lynata brings up a good point about the Navy troopships, in addition to those, aren't there assault landers/army landers that ferry men and equipment to and from planetside? I'd assume they'd bring down Valkyries and Vendettas in stowed form and unpack them after a beachhead was established.

As for the Valkyries being Navy, I think the consensus is that , while being a rare occasion, IG regiments can sort of 'adopt' Valkyrie wing (Elysian regiments being the prime example.). The IG codex mentions also that during a campaign Valkyries/Vendettas that were assign to a regiment add additional armor, along with various other upgrades. One can figure that along with the armor, the pilots would take it upon themselves to camo their flyer or perhaps regiment command would order the flyers repainted in regiment colors.

I think the salient point is that it doesn't really matter. If you want your Valkyries and Vendettas flying Navy colors, cool. If not? No one is going to jump up your ass about it.

I remember reading somewhere, probably the IG codex, that Units assigned to a Regiment will adopt the Uniform and the paint scheme of the Regiment. To help build a bond with the Regiment and to cut down on friendly fire. However IIRC it was talking about Armored Fist detachments, but the same logic should hold for Valkyries and Vendettas.

Might also be the most sensible colours for the theatre of operations - when you're flying about without terrain to hide you so effectively, it's a good idea to blend in with the sky or terrain you're most likely to fly over.

ObliviousBlueCaboose wrote:I remember reading somewhere, probably the IG codex, that Units assigned to a Regiment will adopt the Uniform and the paint scheme of the Regiment. To help build a bond with the Regiment and to cut down on friendly fire. However IIRC it was talking about Armored Fist detachments, but the same logic should hold for Valkyries and Vendettas.

In the Codex, I've read the exact opposite - that IG regiments begin to look less and less uniform the longer they're on active duty, because casualties are not replaced with troops from their own homeworld but from other planets. A particularly old regiment might have a Cadian platoon standing next to a squad that is made up of 7 Mordians and a Valhallan, for example!

Perhaps what you read was just another version of the fluff, though. As mentioned before, the various books do not have to be, and indeed often are not 100% compatible to each other. Just pick the interpretation you prefer, I guess.

On the other hand, I suppose it would also be possible to bring these two seemingly conflicting statements in line by assuming that the "parent regiment" still has spare uniforms, whilst adopted stragglers now lack a proper supply chain, so the only uniform they'd be able to get to replace their own is the one from their new unit. So it might just be a question of how well supplied that individual regiment actually is. A Valhallan may have to wear his one flak coat for his whole life, whereas Mordians might keep three spare uniforms around to make sure they look as shiny and ... well, as uniform as possible.

Gotta love the IG fluff for allowing such a high degree of customization!

Frankenberry wrote:From the various novels and also from the codex, nothing is ever mentioned about Valkyries being able to transition from space to atmosphere. I could be wrong, as I haven't read every IG book there is.

The Liber Apocalyptica article I linked above mentions this:

"Valkyries are also capable of atmospheric insertion, being launched from Imperial Navy carriers in low orbit. Such formations are at great risk from interception by enemy fighters during these operations, for the Valkyrie is much less manoeuvrable in space. As such, assault formations are often accompanied by Imperial Navy fighter squadrons in order to defend them against enemy fighters."

I think that quote may also be in the IG codex, but I'm not really sure.

Considering the Valkyrie uses what appears to be atmospheric engines (and thus need air to function) it's debatable whether they are inherently capable of even limited spaceflight. Thats why Thunderhawks carry a reactor, to allow them to use non-atmospheric engines whilst in Space. Aeronautica versions of thunderbolts and Marauders and such need rocket assitance to reach orbit (and thus you'd probably need that for Valkyries.) The only example of an 'orbit capalbe' Valkyrie I can think of was the Spectre variant from Redemption Corps, but that may be particular to that variant alone.

As far as whether Valkyries/Vultures/Vendettas and all the 'gunships' are part of the Guard or the Navy, they're 'technically' part of the Navy as far as things go despite that making no sense (The whole point of the Guard/Navy separation was to keep the Guard from having access to ships that allow them to get into space/other planets. I'm guessing its basically politics dictating that - eg Anything that has wings must be part of the Guard.) But this being 40K that rule is far from absolute and it is possible for the IG (unofficially) acquire things through various (unnoficial, illegal) means.

Bear in mind that simply acquiring the vehicles is not enough. Being able to maintain them is just as important, and logistics is key here. It may actually be quite easy for the IG to acquire stuff they wouldn't normally have in the region of space they occupy, but since technology is not uniform throughout the Imperium it may become difficult or impossible to maintain (so those nice fancy gunships you got on world X may not be utilized on world Y and thus unless you have a secure source for spare parts and such they may become useless sooner or later.)

Another peculiar possibility is that at least some PDF forces don't seem to adhere to the Guard/Navy distinction and the PDF might incorporate combined air/ground forces, so the IG commander might be able to poach aircraft from that. It's been known that Garrison regiments have poached spacecraft and even the occasional grav vehicle from local worlds they may be attached to (3rd edition IG codex gave a breakdown of one such regiment I think.) A variation of that is the world in question has a high technological/industrial level that allows them to raise/maintain vehicles not normally accessible, and it could provide its PDF forces (and any regiments it raises) with the sorts of vehicles and craft the Guard might not normally have.

The short answer is: aircraft are officially Navy-owned, but it doesn't have to be Navy if you don't want it to.

Connor MacLeod wrote:Considering the Valkyrie uses what appears to be atmospheric engines (and thus need air to function) it's debatable whether they are inherently capable of even limited spaceflight.

It's not debatable if you want to stick to GW fluff. You can say it's dumb, but that's what was written.

That being said, I also don't see much of a visual difference between a Valkyrie's engines and those of a Thunderhawk or an Aquila Lander.

Kaldor wrote:I don't think there's any sources to indicate either way. Modern armies incorporate aircraft, as do the US Marines, I see no reason why the IG couldn't incorporate Valkyries as part of it's structure.

5th Ed IG codex specially lists Valkyrie/variants as being piloted by the Imperial Navy, but it isn't unprecedented for individual Regiments to have Valkyries if it matches their fighting style. Same with Inquisitorial Storm Troopers and Arbites, according to Imperial Armour.

There was even a Regiment that used fighter aircraft, though I forget its name. They were aerial warfare specialists.