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Hello,

Ive recently made my first purchase from wayland games (sick of paying gw prices) ordered quite alot of new stuff, at first they 'lost' my payment for a few days, now my order has been listed as 'Awaiting stock' for 3 days. I checked through the their website and all the items i ordered are lists as 'In stock' I placed my order exactly a week ago and it still hasnt been posted.

I was just wondering if other users have experienced issues like this? Or if im just unlucky

Thanks

Did you try raising it with them?
They have a ticket system that you can use to notify them of any issues.



GW have stupid re-ordering limits on the larger independents - and if it sells out before they can reorder again, then you have to wait longer.

How did you pay - was it paypal? I've had fun with that too, as my paypal account uses a different email address to my wayland account, but the guys are always sound as a pound with the actual orders.

As for the rest, you're not the first to mention the stock indicator thing, but I'll say the same as I have every other time - the indicator doesn't say "We have these in stock", it says "We can get these from our suppliers easily / not easily / etc"

As for the reason its not been posted, besides potentially awaiting stock, they've had their big free shipping promo on, so they've likely got a big order back log. It's worth remembering that Wayland have a big footprint and client base, but not necessarily the highest numbers of staff to get every order despatched within their desired time frames.

Essentially, this sort of thing happens with every company you order from at some point. Wayland have always been fine from my point - my latest order took about 10 days to arrive, but we all need to consider it a trade off, their discounted prices for a slightly longer lead time, and that's something I'm willing to accept.

You're not unlucky, yes other people do say this sort of thing, but its best to remember that, at the end of the day, if we want something now now now now now, we're best buying directly from a retail store at the full price. Hell, even GW's own mail order guys aren't as fast as I'd like so given the choice, it's Wayland all the way

I payed directly with my debit card, I have just rang them and the guy explained that they are waiting for a delivery as you suggested.

Glad to Have this resolved,

Thanks again

Wayland games are generally good I have had a few "awaiting stock" issues which can be annoying as they don't tell you.

They very helpful and friendly if you phone them though.

baxta182 wrote:I payed directly with my debit card, I have just rang them and the guy explained that they are waiting for a delivery as you suggested.

Glad to Have this resolved,

Thanks again

I'm pleased this has been resooved to your satisfaction, Wayland are a great resource IMHO.

But the reason why I posted is that using a debit card online is daft in the extreme. Although Wayland are a stand up business there are many that are not so it is always best to use a Credit card. Why risk your own money when a bank will do that for you.

Plus if you ever have problems its great to have a CC company on your side to recover/insure your transaction, not all bank will give a fig if it is a debit card.

Sorry for the OT, just some useful (hopefully!) advise for those that may not be aware.

But the reason why I posted is that using a debit card online is daft in the extreme. Although Wayland are a stand up business there are many that are not so it is always best to use a Credit card. Why risk your own money when a bank will do that for you.

Plus if you ever have problems its great to have a CC company on your side to recover/insure your transaction, not all bank will give a fig if it is a debit card.

Sound advise, CC are best (although here in the UK legal protection with them only kicks in at £100+ spends)

but remember not everybody has a CC to use either through choice, age or previous debts (I'm NOT saying any of the above applies to the OP)

I personally have come to expect Wayland orders to take at least a few weeks even if its supposed to be in stock.

Place big order, told will be shipped Thursday, Thursday comes and goes and turns into next Thursday so I cancel and apparently now they're having problems refunding me through Paypal.

They asked if my debit card is expired, but PayPal is linked to my current account, no debit details there at all.

Not happy at all. Might be easier just to put it to the resolution centre. Half of the time they talk to me like I'm stupid anyway.

Avoid Wayland Games at all costs. A quick search of google found me three cheaper alternatives.

EDIT: Told them I'd keep raising critical tickets after I noticed them put a "low" priority on my refund ticket = suddenly a refund appears.

Davylove21 wrote:Place big order, told will be shipped Thursday, Thursday comes and goes and turns into next Thursday so I cancel and apparently now they're having problems refunding me through Paypal.

They asked if my debit card is expired, but PayPal is linked to my current account, no debit details there at all.

Not happy at all. Might be easier just to put it to the resolution centre. Half of the time they talk to me like I'm stupid anyway.

Avoid Wayland Games at all costs. A quick search of google found me three cheaper alternatives.

I am the owner of Wayland and I have investigated your post and I would suggest that you are being a tad unfair.

You placed a previously order that you wanted to have changed, we advised you that we cannot amend orders currently and you would have to cancel and replace the order which you did.
You used a voucher code which clearly states in its terms of use that you should allow some extra processing time (high order volumes).

Today you asked for the order to be cancelled as you received an updated eta on the order. My staff member was courteous. You make a claim that we are talking to you like you are stupid? That's not how I read the tickets, and I listen to staff calls all the time and that is simply just not the case. My guys and girls involved in customer service are professional.

Regarding your refund, the young lady dealing with your ticket, attempted the refund and was presented with an error, the refund error is usually associated with expired cards, (customer support staff have limited access to payment data so cannot see the payment detail) hence the request to you to check, just in case. At the same time she also forwarded the error screen print to one of our techies who also investigated with PayPal. It wasn't her being evasive or slow it was an error message that required investigation with the most likely cause presented to you. Unfortunately we do not control PayPal support. and sometimes tickets take a few hours for them to investigate.

We don't pretend to be perfect but we work incredibly hard on tiny margins sending out hundreds of orders a day. You are frustrated about a delayed order, which is understandable but I feel you are being unfair to us.

If I'd have known that paying for shipping would have meant improved service, I'd have paid for the shipping. Nobody reads T's & C's and it's hard to assume that free shipping promotions = B category customer.

You can imagine how being unable to get a refund would make somebody seethe with rage I'm sure, so it's then even more irksome to see that the ticket dealing with that refund had become 'low' priority on a Friday afternoon. Whilst I'm sure you all work very hard, I don't care about that and don't want to be without my money all weekend.

Out of curiosity, do GW limit the amount of stock you can order on top of limiting orders to once a week? I e-mailed Gifts for Geeks this morning and asked them when they would ship the same order to me, and they said "if you order by 2.15PM, it'll ship today". Is it just a case of scale, or putting carefulness with money ahead of customer satisfaction?

At any rate I decided that if I'm going to wait another week anyway, I might as well take 30% off RRP at Total Wargamer. Hell, I'd wait two weeks

Davy Love21, we are bound by terms and conditions. You cannot use the no one reads them mantra. That is unreasonable. If we run a promotion that we tell you in advance that its going to be really busy and bear with us, is that not a reasonable thing for us to do?

You were simply asked if your card had expired based upon the error message we had, it was the first part in resolving the issue. It was no attempt to hang on to your money in any way as you are suggesting. You may think rage is an appropriate response to being asked a question when someone is trying to help you. I don't.


GW limit our orders to once a week, today our order arrived on 4 Pallets.Some items are limited supply, some items are unavailable and we only find out when we order.

Regarding the low priority, that's the default when you create a ticket. No one has altered the priority on your tickets.

rich1231 wrote:Davy Love21, we are bound by terms and conditions. You cannot use the no one reads them mantra. That is unreasonable. If we run a promotion that we tell you in advance that its going to be really busy and bear with us, is that not a reasonable thing for us to do?

You were simply asked if your card had expired based upon the error message we had, it was the first part in resolving the issue. It was no attempt to hang on to your money in any way as you are suggesting. You may think rage is an appropriate response to being asked a question when someone is trying to help you. I don't.


GW limit our orders to once a week, today our order arrived on 4 Pallets.Some items are limited supply, some items are unavailable and we only find out when we order.

Regarding the low priority, that's the default when you create a ticket. No one has altered the priority on your tickets.

Going to have to side with the retailer on this one....puts down pitchfork and extinguishes torch.

rich1231 wrote:GW limit our orders to once a week, today our order arrived on 4 Pallets.Some items are limited supply, some items are unavailable and we only find out when we order.

Just to back this quote up, I work in the fishing industry and this kindof thing happens all the time, it frustrates the hell out of everyone. I realise this doesn't change the end result of your order, though I wouldn't have believed that a distributor (in this case GW) could operate in such a way, and say so to reinforce the truth behind Rich's comment as believe it or not it does happen.

Written communication can be misinterpreted Davy, it is often best on the "offended's" part to simply forgive and move on.

Incidentally, I ordered on the same promotion, was made aware of the extended lead time by Customer Support, and received the order a few days later than I expected. This wasn't a problem, it didn't negatively impact my life in anyway, so I had no reason to kick off. Thefact that I missed the bit saying "this could take longer to ship out" was not and still is not Waylands fault. Secondly, the fact that Wayland are able to process refunds the same day is a great deal more than most companies would do. If you paid for something by card in a brick and mortar store, cancelled the order and requested a refund, it would take at the absolute best, 3-5 days for it to even be processed.

Chill out and forgive man (we need a hippy orkmoticon with peace signs!)

kitch102 wrote: Secondly, the fact that Wayland are able to process refunds the same day is a great deal more than most companies would do. If you paid for something by card in a brick and mortar store, cancelled the order and requested a refund, it would take at the absolute best, 3-5 days for it to even be processed.

You can get anything back if you're right in a brick and mortar store. I've seen people get their deposits back on cars they no longer wanted (considering how far a car depreciates after a week's ownership, that's almost unheard of) and shopkeepers sent to the bank to get someone's money back out after they deposited the shop's takings. My father is a classic for that, I can't see any shop keeping his money from him for more than 10 minutes no matter how he paid.

I just think it shouldn't take 14 days to get hold of something you're selling when it's A) One of the newest 40K armies and B) When you know you'll be really busy. Free shipping promotions would be one of the few times you could afford a backlog of popular items I'd have thought, especially when smooth service could result in new customers. You could have kept my money by saying something like "Hey, we have 50% of your order, give us £reasonable amount and we'll send this half to you now and the rest later", because I can't build a whole army that fast anyway. You're probably too large an organisation to realistically give those levels of service though.

I went off the hinge a bit when I thought I might not get my money back until Monday, but I can never know that I would have had I not persevered, especially with how busy Wayland are.

On the positive, it all got resolved and everyone's happy but I couldn't recommend going back to them in the wake of the excellent Dark Sphere. After Total Wargamer's sale ends I'll be tempted by Triple Helix Wargames because they're pretty local to me and run the same level of discount as Wayland with eternal free shipping.

It would be nice if their claims of ROW shipping came true....

Just sayin...

Davylove21 wrote:
I just think it shouldn't take 14 days to get hold of something you're selling when it's A) One of the newest 40K armies and B) When you know you'll be really busy. Free shipping promotions would be one of the few times you could afford a backlog of popular items I'd have thought, especially when smooth service could result in new customers. You could have kept my money by saying something like "Hey, we have 50% of your order, give us £reasonable amount and we'll send this half to you now and the rest later", because I can't build a whole army that fast anyway. You're probably too large an organisation to realistically give those levels of service though.

annoying yeah, but it's industry wide. I was watching a video by miniwargaming last week and they said they've the same issues; and they're in Canada. Likewise a lot of the GW products they sell is in stock but in stock at the distributor level, and they have to order "blind".

Basically we're spoiled by Amazon speed of dispatching; but Amazon didn't show a profit for their first 6 years I think; and they lost like 3billion US in the process iirc.
GW has a Market cap of 200 millions.
I wouldn't expect real time stock anytime soon tbh.

btw, wayland uses "awaiting stock" also to mean an order is in the packing queue.

and I currenty have an order awaiting stock at wayland

 Davylove21 wrote:

kitch102 wrote: Secondly, the fact that Wayland are able to process refunds the same day is a great deal more than most companies would do. If you paid for something by card in a brick and mortar store, cancelled the order and requested a refund, it would take at the absolute best, 3-5 days for it to even be processed.

You can get anything back if you're right in a brick and mortar store. I've seen people get their deposits back on cars they no longer wanted (considering how far a car depreciates after a week's ownership, that's almost unheard of) and shopkeepers sent to the bank to get someone's money back out after they deposited the shop's takings. My father is a classic for that, I can't see any shop keeping his money from him for more than 10 minutes no matter how he paid.

I just think it shouldn't take 14 days to get hold of something you're selling when it's A) One of the newest 40K armies and B) When you know you'll be really busy. Free shipping promotions would be one of the few times you could afford a backlog of popular items I'd have thought, especially when smooth service could result in new customers. You could have kept my money by saying something like "Hey, we have 50% of your order, give us £reasonable amount and we'll send this half to you now and the rest later", because I can't build a whole army that fast anyway. You're probably too large an organisation to realistically give those levels of service though.

I went off the hinge a bit when I thought I might not get my money back until Monday, but I can never know that I would have had I not persevered, especially with how busy Wayland are.

On the positive, it all got resolved and everyone's happy but I couldn't recommend going back to them in the wake of the excellent Dark Sphere. After Total Wargamer's sale ends I'll be tempted by Triple Helix Wargames because they're pretty local to me and run the same level of discount as Wayland with eternal free shipping.

I understand that you're trying very hard to paint yourself as the victim in this scenario, and in the technical sense of the word you are, but your latter posts have framed you as what can only be described as petulant. The store responded to you adequately, and as for your unwillingness to read about and accept the possible circumstances of your purchase, that is no one's fault but your own.

 Neconilis wrote:

I understand that you're trying very hard to paint yourself as the victim in this scenario, and in the technical sense of the word you are, but your latter posts have framed you as what can only be described as petulant. The store responded to you adequately, and as for your unwillingness to read about and accept the possible circumstances of your purchase, that is no one's fault but your own.

That's just a load of rubbish really. I'm in a thread called 'Wayland Games issues' talking about my issues with Wayland Games honestly. I'm not melodramatic enough a person to term myself a victim.

I understood fully that they'd be busy, which I've said a couple of times now, but I reject that as an excuse. They aren't busy because they got hit by lightning - they set up the busy period for themselves. If one order can be done by a set time, as I was told, why can't a very similar order be done by that time? I don't care about T's & C's because I set my own:- If I'm not happy, I'll take my money back. I don't care about being some sort of shopping paragon and I'm not going to sit here and say "I'm really unhappy with this service, but the terms and conditions say it might take ages and that you'll get inferior service if using a promotion code". You do that with your money.

I will not be using Wayland again. 7 orders. 3 cancelled after waiting an unreasonable amount of time for high availability items, 3 orders at least a week over the the time frame they gave me. and only one arriving in within a week of ordering.

Customer service is a bit of joke, getting differing excuses on what was holding up an order depending on who responded to my enquires.

seems to be par for the course with all the online retailers i have used apart from ebay.

I actually sympathise with the retailers because I've heard first hand of the various ways GW mess them around and supply them with what they think they should get instead of fulfilling specific orders.

If you want your order fulfilled quickly then order full price from GW. After all, they manage distribution to prioritise themselves so should almost never be out of stock.

Yeah, I won't be using Wayland any longer since my last order.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I actually sympathise with the retailers because I've heard first hand of the various ways GW mess them around and supply them with what they think they should get instead of fulfilling specific orders.

If you want your order fulfilled quickly then order full price from GW. After all, they manage distribution to prioritise themselves so should almost never be out of stock.

If it was just GW stock i would sympathise but it's not.

pitboy2710 wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I actually sympathise with the retailers because I've heard first hand of the various ways GW mess them around and supply them with what they think they should get instead of fulfilling specific orders.

If you want your order fulfilled quickly then order full price from GW. After all, they manage distribution to prioritise themselves so should almost never be out of stock.

If it was just GW stock i would sympathise but it's not.

The challenge that Wayland has is prioritising which items to stock (I'll say it for you: the ones that have existing orders for them, I know. However, I also know this industry very well and its not always so easy - GW won't be the only company to miss-manage their retailers). It's great to be a one stop shop for the products that Wayland supplies, but remember that also means your order might be waiting on stock from 2, 3, 4 or more suppliers. If they're all being a pain in the ass to Wayland, that affects your order. Is it Waylands fault? No, how can it be.

From a Customer Service stand point, again something I have a gak load of experience in, as a retailer you don't want to say "it's not our fault, it's theirs" as it can make you seem unprofessional. Is not saying this the right thing to do? That depends on the customer, but bear in mind that handling this stuff over the phone with someone you've never spoken to before is harder that it seems as you have no idea how they'll react to certain news. Some can be understanding, some the polar opposite. It's not as cut and dry as we end users may think. As has already been said in this thread, we're spoilt by Amazon.

Amazon works thusly:

- customer places order on Amazon website
- Amazon sends PO to retailer with the instruction to supply within a set time frame
- retailer sends goods to Amazon
- Amazon repackages and sends to end user

Order completed within 1 week. The suppliers in this instance however are the retailers, all of which are doing everything they can for business right now, so they'll supply as quickly as possible.

GW in this instance is not the retailer though, and they do not seem to operate in such an efficient manner. It seems everything they do is set to a) make things as easy for themselves as possible and b) promote their products online without actually selling them as c) end users buy direct from GW when they find out their order could be 2 weeks off if bought from the retailer due to the policies put in place by GW.

Who wins? GW. Every time. Other manufacturers, I don't know them well enough to truly comment, though theoretically they won't be anywhere near as big as GW, so they probably have their own supply and demand problems that then affect the retailers, and consequently (y)our orders.

It all boils down to this:

- do you have to have it now or within 3 days? If absolutely yes, buy at full price from the manufacturer
- do you want to save money, for the same product, and can wait to receive the items ordered? If yes, order from the likes of Wayland who, imo, do a sterling job with limited resources for no praise from the very people they aim to serve.

And now, the white knight shall ride off in to the sunset.

Tally ho!

I wouldn't mind the waiting so much if they were up front about delays.

I am not unsympathetic to the problems they face. I wish them all the success in the world. But my experiences with them have not been great.

Hopefully they improve, and if they do i will use them again.

I have had positive experiences with Wayland games with the 3 (or was it 4) times I bought through them. They're okay in my book.

 kitch102 wrote:

pitboy2710 wrote:

The challenge that Wayland has is prioritising which items to stock (I'll say it for you: the ones that have existing orders for them, I know. However, I also know this industry very well and its not always so easy - GW won't be the only company to miss-manage their retailers). It's great to be a one stop shop for the products that Wayland supplies, but remember that also means your order might be waiting on stock from 2, 3, 4 or more suppliers. If they're all being a pain in the ass to Wayland, that affects your order. Is it Waylands fault? No, how can it be.

From a Customer Service stand point, again something I have a gak load of experience in, as a retailer you don't want to say "it's not our fault, it's theirs" as it can make you seem unprofessional. Is not saying this the right thing to do? That depends on the customer, but bear in mind that handling this stuff over the phone with someone you've never spoken to before is harder that it seems as you have no idea how they'll react to certain news. Some can be understanding, some the polar opposite. It's not as cut and dry as we end users may think. As has already been said in this thread, we're spoilt by Amazon.

Amazon works thusly:

- customer places order on Amazon website
- Amazon sends PO to retailer with the instruction to supply within a set time frame
- retailer sends goods to Amazon
- Amazon repackages and sends to end user

Order completed within 1 week. The suppliers in this instance however are the retailers, all of which are doing everything they can for business right now, so they'll supply as quickly as possible.

GW in this instance is not the retailer though, and they do not seem to operate in such an efficient manner. It seems everything they do is set to a) make things as easy for themselves as possible and b) promote their products online without actually selling them as c) end users buy direct from GW when they find out their order could be 2 weeks off if bought from the retailer due to the policies put in place by GW.

Who wins? GW. Every time. Other manufacturers, I don't know them well enough to truly comment, though theoretically they won't be anywhere near as big as GW, so they probably have their own supply and demand problems that then affect the retailers, and consequently (y)our orders.

It all boils down to this:

- do you have to have it now or within 3 days? If absolutely yes, buy at full price from the manufacturer
- do you want to save money, for the same product, and can wait to receive the items ordered? If yes, order from the likes of Wayland who, imo, do a sterling job with limited resources for no praise from the very people they aim to serve.

And now, the white knight shall ride off in to the sunset.

Tally ho!

The problem is, though, that Wayland SAY something is in stock when it is clearly not and they want to blame everyone but themselves. They want to pass the blaim. If they say "out of stock, expected in X" then fine, but they keep on with this stupid ass thing of "In stock (unless its not)". When I'm ordering something I don't give a crap what there relationship is with suppliers, I just don't want to be lied to. They tell you something is in stock which to most people means they have it in there warehouse, when they do not.

If they gave a delivery time of 5-10 days, and actually made that, then fine, but they don't.

Amazon do as well as they do by not messing about with suppliers and passing the blame. When something goes wrong they try and sort it out. They also work with there suppers to ensure that the whole system runs as well as possible. Having worked for a supplier to amazon I can say there system is really impressive. It can be a complete pain in the ass for suppliers at times, but it is all worked out so the customer has the best experience they can at the lowest price. Wayland seem to be completely incapable of running a lean efficient business. They are like the bricks and mortar stores that won't hold any stock but will tell you they can order anything you need, but then forget, or take for ever to tell you when it is in. Which is a shame. Wayland also need to sort out there website.

You know, this is the only bug bear that I have with Wayland, and it's not reeeeally their fault, as it's down to their customers interpretation. I can't count how many times I've pointed this out... lol. If anything they just need to underline the fact that this says "if", and not "we guarantee", the 2 things are polar opposites.

The stock alert system specifically says:

"High Availability: If in stock should ship in 1-5 working days, if not then 3-9."

The key there is the word if, which people always seem to ignore or miss somehow. It's hard not to sound rude or flaming when I say this in written communication over the interwebz, but seriously, how hard is it to read that? We all know what if means, it means that there's a chance of something not going as planned. Simple!

Amazon do as well as they do by being a massive multi million (billion?) pound corporation. All they are, is a hub. I supply Amazon now, it's... fun. Their systems are a pain but it works well for the end user as the buying power behind that company is phenomenal. Anyway, we digress (I know, my fault).

I really don't see why you say "Wayland seem to be completely incapable of running a lean efficient business". What, because some orders take longer to despatch due to a promotion? It happens. I run promos all the time, it encourages further business, all of a sudden you've got 3 or 4 times the orders that you normally have, but the same 2 hands to ship them with, so of course things take longer to send. And as already said, how can they tell you when something will be in, when they don't know themselves, purely down to how their supplier operates? I'm on the receiving end of this kind of supplier -> seller treatment and it's really rough from a retailers stand point as customers obviously want to know when they'll get their orders, but you can't always tell them as you don't always know!

What's wrong with the website? Or are you just talking about the aforementioned stock legend?

I've heard from Wayland that live stock systems and next day despatch are on the cards for the end of this year. Bear in mind they've just had that massive warehouse move as well, I'm sure that we're going to see a lot of the problems people are having gradually fall away.

The traffic light system is wrong basically. I understand 'High Availability', but that green light will always imply that they have it in stock regularly. Why have a massive warehouse if you only order what you've sold?

I would only have sympathy if GW/suppliers limited the amount of stock you could order. It doesn't matter if it's once a week only because proper analysis and planning can overcome those obstacles. Why not, if you know you're running a promotion next week, place a big order beforehand?

It's compounded by the amount of times I received items the next day when Dark Sphere still delivered. Maybe they spoiled me with truly excellent service but I don't believe that growth should be traded for customer service.

Wasn't live stock levels supposed to be implemented by now? And the new warehouse was supposed to fix these long-standing issues, but it hasn't so far. I don't see the pattern changing.

It is easy to post a few complaints on an internet forum and imagine that is how everyone feels.

We shipped over 200 orders yesterday that were placed over the weekend by customers. Some items for other orders are out of stock and will be delayed a few days until the items are back in stock or we find out they are no longer available.

Our same and order day plus 2 ship rates have climbed from over 60% 18 months ago to close to 70% now. They are always improving but the level of investment to close the gap to 90% + is huge and I would guess that most people wouldn't understand or appreciate how massive an undertaking it s for a small business with small margins and product supply like it is in this industry. No supplier communicates product information and availability in any way that other more sophisticated industries do. We have grown in spite of these issues.

We are far more open than any of our competitors and I take a lot of time to understand customers requests and complaints.

We just moved warehouse.. a few posts say a few negative things about that.. The warehouse move cost us approximately £500,000 all in and that excludes ongoing costs. Many of those that have visited us since the move are blown away by the space. It is the enabler for a huge amount of activity that were held back whilst we were located elsewhere. Next we have the TTN venue which is forging ahead. At the same time we are preparing the live stock levels and new website these are imminent. All of these things take resources, not just money. For example our new website has cost over £100k, the back office infrastructure another big investment. These all are enablers to improve everything else. We also have a US arm opening soon and work continues on that too.

We have 2 full time customer service people now and another part time. They are there to help. They help people all day long from order issues to Hobby questions, to what seems the latest fad of asking them to draw pictures for customers to be added to orders.

All of the improvements take time and money, they are complicated, even if on the outside they appear simple. But I made a commitment to the business a long time ago to not stop investing.


We do place huge orders with GW in advance of promotions but we are unable to predict what will be popular in a particular period and as our margins are small, tying up money in stock that doesn't sell is death to many businesses and we wont be making that mistake.