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All it says on page74 is: "Nearby units suffer a S3, AP - hit for each model with D6 inches of the vehicle (roll for the distance once, regardless how many times the result is inflicted), as flaminf debris scatterse across the area."

So I have questions:

Does it circumvent los entirely? (IE go through impassable, other vehicles ect)

Is it resolved like a shooting attack?

Is it resolved like a close combat attack?



The reason I ask is if you look at how to allocate when a transport explodes on page 80 it explicitly tells you how.

Yes.

Yes. (Hits circumvent LOS, Wounds do not)

No.

Where does it say it's resolved as a shooting attack? I can't find it anywhere.


If that is indeed the case, that means when a vehicle is blown up in cc you're going to always have to randomize who gets hit?

 Crablezworth wrote:
Where does it say it's resolved as a shooting attack? I can't find it anywhere.


If that is indeed the case, that means when a vehicle is blown up in cc you're going to always have to randomize who gets hit?

Well it's impossible to be a CC attack since you're never locked in CC with vehicles.

And no, casualty removal is still closest to farthest from the vehicle.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Where does it say it's resolved as a shooting attack? I can't find it anywhere.


If that is indeed the case, that means when a vehicle is blown up in cc you're going to always have to randomize who gets hit?

Well it's impossible to be a CC attack since you're never locked in CC with vehicles.

And no, casualty removal is still closest to farthest from the vehicle.

I'd still like to know where it says that in the book, because what happens when I blow up a walker in cc?

Even if it's not a walker, if they're all in base, they're all the closest and if you do indeed use the shooting mechanics it's going to mean a lot of rolling.

The same thing that happens with any other attack, you pull casualties from the closest models to the thing causing the wounds.

It is not a CC attack, so the only other method we have to resolve something like that is the shooting rules.

For embarked models you resolve the hits as shooting except the controlling player allocates the wounds caused. P.80

It isn't resolved as a shooting attack or close combat attack.

It's resolved as a S3 AP - attack. No additional rules.

 Testify wrote:
It isn't resolved as a shooting attack or close combat attack.

It's resolved as a S3 AP - attack. No additional rules.

Right so a unit takes let's say, 3 hits, I can allocate them to any model in the unit?

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Testify wrote:
It isn't resolved as a shooting attack or close combat attack.

It's resolved as a S3 AP - attack. No additional rules.

Right so a unit takes let's say, 3 hits, I can allocate them to any model in the unit?

As there are not any hard and fast rules to cover it, it is probably best to play it as the 3 models closest to the explosion.

Though the passengers treat the explosion as a shooting attack...

Still, it seems really messy when it comes to the unit being in base contact with the vehicle when it blows.

Let's say I've got a full tac squad (7 bolter marines, sgt, flamer, missile launcher) they're all equal distance breause they were in base contact with let's say a rhino when it exploded so the rules for shooting (which again seems to be an assumption) say to randomize to find out who the closest model is. Once he's dead you randomize again... and again, and again and again. Even with a D10 on hand it seems overly complicated.




I'm glad I'm not crazy and it does indeed seem like an oversight when you consider they thought about it when it came to transport occupents and made sure to specify how it worked.

If we're going to assume it works like shooting, I'd say go one further and assume it works in a similar fashion to units in a vehicle that explodes. Either way you're fillin in blanks.










also, if you did go with shooting method, wouldn't los then matter for who gets hit? IE if the model or models are entirely obscurred they aren't hit.

No, because there is no firing model to draw LOS from.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
No, because there is no firing model to draw LOS from.

no what?

no firing model / unit, meaning you have no ability to ever draw LOS to the target

Why would you need LOS when your next to the thing when it explodes?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Testify wrote:
It isn't resolved as a shooting attack or close combat attack.

It's resolved as a S3 AP - attack. No additional rules.

Right so a unit takes let's say, 3 hits, I can allocate them to any model in the unit?

As there are not any hard and fast rules to cover it, it is probably best to play it as the 3 models closest to the explosion.

This. Use your common sense.

And if the unit is wrapped around a Rhino cutting off the access points, they're all equidistant. My common sense is obviously failing me, can you tell me which models are closest?

rigeld2 wrote:
And if the unit is wrapped around a Rhino cutting off the access points, they're all equidistant. My common sense is obviously failing me, can you tell me which models are closest?

Randomise.

page74 : "Nearby units suffer a S3, AP - hit for each model with D6 inches of the vehicle (roll for the distance once, regardless how many times the result is inflicted), as flaminf debris scatterse across the area."

My take on this is that EVERY model (including walkers, other vehicles, troops, etc) within D6 inches of the exploding vehicle takes one single S3 hit (with no armor piercing value).

Closest to, close combat, shooting etc has nothing to do with it. ALL of them within D6 inches take one hit each, friendly and non-friendly alike.

Rorschach9 wrote:
page74 : "Nearby units suffer a S3, AP - hit for each model with D6 inches of the vehicle (roll for the distance once, regardless how many times the result is inflicted), as flaminf debris scatterse across the area."

My take on this is that EVERY model (including walkers, other vehicles, troops, etc) within D6 inches of the exploding vehicle takes one single S3 hit (with no armor piercing value).

Closest to, close combat, shooting etc has nothing to do with it. ALL of them within D6 inches take one hit each, friendly and non-friendly alike.

All units suffer hits (equal to the number of models in range). But how do you determin which models are removed?
That's the question...

 grendel083 wrote:

Rorschach9 wrote:
page74 : "Nearby units suffer a S3, AP - hit for each model with D6 inches of the vehicle (roll for the distance once, regardless how many times the result is inflicted), as flaminf debris scatterse across the area."

My take on this is that EVERY model (including walkers, other vehicles, troops, etc) within D6 inches of the exploding vehicle takes one single S3 hit (with no armor piercing value).

Closest to, close combat, shooting etc has nothing to do with it. ALL of them within D6 inches take one hit each, friendly and non-friendly alike.

All units suffer hits (equal to the number of models in range). But how do you determin which models are removed?
That's the question...

All units suffer ONE hit each.

Any model that is killed by that single S3 hit. All models take one hit from the explosion. Roll to save. Roll to wound (S3). If that wound kills the model, remove it. If it doesn't, don't remove it (ie : model can take more than one wound) but mark it as having taken 1 wound.

Keep in mind, I could be entirely wrong, but that is my interpretation of the rule. It just seems to make sense to me this way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Either that .. or alternate interpretation (after reading again and again) ;

All units within D6 inches recieve X number of hits (where X = number of units within D6 inches) at S3.

This could be incredibly deadly if you have more than 1 unit within D6 inches, but makes much less sense to me (why does the number of models within range make a difference to how much damage they take?)

This sounds like someone is trying to cheat...

It's been said and agreed that ALL models within the range indicated, as rolled 1D6, take a hit.

So just go model by model and roll individually for each one. What? Reason? Rationality? Why is this so hard? The fact that the OP seems to be TRYING to make it difficult is what makes me think someone is trying to cheat to keep their special/heavy/character models alive.

If it takes you so long to roll off for each model that it interferes with the game continuation than it only makes me think someone is trying to cheat, even more...

Rorschach9 wrote:
All units suffer ONE hit each.

Any model that is killed by that single S3 hit. All models take one hit from the explosion. Roll to save. Roll to wound (S3). If that wound kills the model, remove it. If it doesn't, don't remove it (ie : model can take more than one wound) but mark it as having taken 1 wound.

Keep in mind, I could be entirely wrong, but that is my interpretation of the rule. It just seems to make sense to me this way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Either that .. or alternate interpretation (after reading again and again) ;

All units within D6 inches recieve X number of hits (where X = number of units within D6 inches) at S3.

This could be incredibly deadly if you have more than 1 unit within D6 inches, but makes much less sense to me (why does the number of models within range make a difference to how much damage they take?)

All units within D6 inches recieve x number of hits (where x = number of models within D6 inches)
So if a single unit has 6 models in range, the unit suffers 6 S3 hits.

Alright, yes. I was mixing Units and Models.

I'm back to Each model in the D6 inch range takes one hit.
Roll to wound (using a S3 hit)
Roll to save
Apply wounds to models in the D6 range starting with the model closest to the vehicle. If they are all in contact/equally close, simply assign wounds at your choice (as they are all equally close).

If models in the unit are outside of the D6 range only the models within the D6 range take the hits as they are clearly the ones closest to the blast and wounds are assigned to the nearest model first (roll to save against a S3, AP - hit as normal for each model that took a hit).

I try to use the distance measured as a template and only models under that 6 inches can be removed.

 eldartau1987 wrote:
I try to use the distance measured as a template and only models under that 6 inches can be removed.

Only remove models under the template?
Even template weapons don't follow that.

 Crablezworth wrote:
All it says on page74 is: "Nearby units suffer a S3, AP - hit for each model with D6 inches of the vehicle (roll for the distance once, regardless how many times the result is inflicted), as flaminf debris scatterse across the area."

So I have questions:

Does it circumvent los entirely? (IE go through impassable, other vehicles ect)

Is it resolved like a shooting attack?

Is it resolved like a close combat attack?



The reason I ask is if you look at how to allocate when a transport explodes on page 80 it explicitly tells you how.

Didn't you answer your own question here?

 purplkrush wrote:
This sounds like someone is trying to cheat...

It's been said and agreed that ALL models within the range indicated, as rolled 1D6, take a hit.

So just go model by model and roll individually for each one. What? Reason? Rationality? Why is this so hard? The fact that the OP seems to be TRYING to make it difficult is what makes me think someone is trying to cheat to keep their special/heavy/character models alive.

If it takes you so long to roll off for each model that it interferes with the game continuation than it only makes me think someone is trying to cheat, even more...

I don't understand the condescension and accusations being leveled my way. We're discussing a rule, and really, the absence of specificity in relation to a rule. I'm not trying to cheat, I'm actively seeking an answer if one exists. I'm hoping one does somewhere else in the book and another forum member might enlighten me to its location and I haven't seen it. I'd like to know for no other reason than I don't want to have to randomize 10 times to figure out which squad members gets hit when they're all in base to base with a vehicle when it blows. (and honestly, the randomizing method being more lengthy actually reduces the chance of a special, heavy or sgt from getting hit and that method is still predicated on the assumption that it works the same as shooting)

I've seen people suggest house rules, which is all well and good but I or my opponent can come up with that as a stop gap solution. My concern is more about the fact that no matter what, you have to essentially make up a rule to solve this one. Allocating wounds to models in a transport basically works the same way it did in 5th however the book tells you exactly how to go about allocating the wounds.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
All it says on page74 is: "Nearby units suffer a S3, AP - hit for each model with D6 inches of the vehicle (roll for the distance once, regardless how many times the result is inflicted), as flaminf debris scatterse across the area."

So I have questions:

Does it circumvent los entirely? (IE go through impassable, other vehicles ect)

Is it resolved like a shooting attack?

Is it resolved like a close combat attack?



The reason I ask is if you look at how to allocate when a transport explodes on page 80 it explicitly tells you how.

Didn't you answer your own question here?

No, because page 80 is discussing models in a unit that is being transported in a vehicle and how to allocate wounds to that unit if the vehicle suffers and explosion. The rules for what happens to the nearby units outside of said transport is what is lacking in specificity in regards to wound allocation.

Well the guys inside handle it as a shooting attack, I would do the same for the models outside, that seems to be the best way to handle the situation.

Now, does a vehicle explosion hit a Flyer / FMC when zoom/swoop?

Flyer wouldn't really matter because of the S3, fmc on the other hand it could potentially wound.