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It's a mockup. I can tell you, the craft shown in the images there will NEVER fly, and on the off chance it somehow does, its definitely NOT a stealth aircraft (unless its stealth qualities are derived solely from the use of plastics to build the entire thing... gonna suck when the engines inevitably melts through the fuselage... if it even has an engine...). Even if its a mockup for a legitimate aircraft currently in development... its a joke...
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Seemingly the aviation community have been laughing their asses since the photos were released. Here are some of my favourite claims:
The afterburner will melt the aircraft!
There is no cockpit seal!
They'll have to be careful flying it in case the papier-mache comes off!
The outline of DIY store hinges can be seen on the rudders!
It's so small it was clearly intended to be flown by the space monkey!
Iran have invented the worlds first stealth kamikazi!
I'm no expert, but it sounds like a bit of a hoax.
I will play devil's advocate and say It's not too far off from what they could be capable of.
The Iranians are not incompetent, but what could all this grandstanding really mean? Iran is not North Korea, cut off from everything with a starving population. Far from it, Iran's population has a middle class, has the smarts, and the connections to do some of the things they claim. Not everything and certainly not on par with other nations with greater resources and clout, but do you think they are far away from the technology America has fielded since the 1980's?
WarOne wrote: I will play devil's advocate and say It's not too far off from what they could be capable of.
The Iranians are not incompetent, but what could all this grandstanding really mean? Iran is not North Korea, cut off from everything with a starving population. Far from it, Iran's population has a middle class, has the smarts, and the connections to do some of the things they claim. Not everything and certainly not on par with other nations with greater resources and clout, but do you think they are far away from the technology America has fielded since the 1980's?
I would say they are behind China at indigenous aircraft production. The Iranians have had plenty of opportunity to keep their jets in the air since embargoed and like I said earlier, their other jets are based upon the F-5 freedom fighter, a proven airframe.
I would think their training would let them down quicker than their fighters would. More concerning would be if Russia exported SSM's and hi tech SAMS such as the S-400 along with the supposed tricky dicky decoys they are supposed to have.
WarOne wrote: I will play devil's advocate and say It's not too far off from what they could be capable of
There's a difference between having the money to do something, the knowledge to know how it should work, and the technical skills to pull it off. Iran, imo, fails in the last one. They have the money and the knowledge to make some fancy toys if they want to, but they have neither the experience nor the facilities I think to build a stealth aircraft or send monkey's into space. And it goes beyond the aircraft itself. I doubt they have the technical experience to really put together an effective production or training system.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/11 17:37:09
I'd be interested in this if they showed us some video of it in flight. Iran has a habit of staging elaborate military shows of strength, including badly photoshopped images of missile launches.
In the unlikely event that it is an actual fully functional aircraft (doubtful given the sanctions in place for many years) I can't see it competing with fighters at high altitude, maybe it is intended as a low level support platform to provide more cover for infantry?
KalashnikovMarine wrote: I'd happily take that thing on with a rifle out of a paratrooper door, if it even makes it off the deck.
Are you going to give it a sporting chance and use an airsoft gun?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks like Iran does indeed have footage of it flying:
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/02/11 17:52:10
LordofHats wrote: The footage is supposedly of a remote controlled model as the proportions in the footage are off.
The footage isn't clear, but at several points in the film the flying object appears to start tumbling in mid air quite dramatically; I wonder if that was a rocket-propelled model that needed the boost to remain stable during flight?
Honestly, the more I look at it, the more I think "This is what would happen if the F-35 and the F-4 produced a bastard child. All the worst features of both planes, and very little of the already minimal positives."
Personally, the only next gen fighter that really worries me is the Russian T-50, between Russia's missile technology and their emphasis on maneuvarability (and their ability to seemingly build very large numbers of everything in a very short time) it could be a deadly opponent. Chinas J-20 doesnt really bother me, they couldnt build a decent jet engine if their lives depended on it and to be honest, it looks more like a strike fighter/penetration bomber, except until they improve their air refueling ability and their support systems their ability to actually reach the intended targets is minimal (at least as long as the Navy doesnt sail a Carrier into the Strait of Taiwan...). The Indian PAK-FA might be interesting though...
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Russia can mass produce everything by inducing debt that makes ours look good and building everything to a "minimal" QC standard. Their engines are famous for having issues as well. (Wonder where China learned it from?)
Door on the right there is the paratrooper door for those that don't know.
And Dreadclaw I could engage it with my sidearm I suppose, M-9 is kinda like an airsoft pistol
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Russian engines are still far superior to China's, and last i had heard Russia is trying to develop superior quality control standards etc. in its defense industry to do away with the reputation of their gear being "held together by rust and bird gak."
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Russia can mass produce everything by inducing debt that makes ours look good and building everything to a "minimal" QC standard. Their engines are famous for having issues as well. (Wonder where China learned it from?)
[img of a C-130]
Door on the right there is the paratrooper door for those that don't know.
And Dreadclaw I could engage it with my sidearm I suppose, M-9 is kinda like an airsoft pistol
Let me get this straight.
You think...Hahaha...You actually think that their plane can keep up with a 130?
"You are judged in life, not by the evil you destroy, but by the light you bring to the darkness" - Reclusiarch Grimaldus of the Black Templars
d3m01iti0n wrote: All I got from this thread is Mr Burning has Gianna as his avatar. I think. Nice.
She's a classy lady.
She is indeed.
This reminds me of a song. Gather round chillins and behold
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
chaos0xomega wrote: Honestly, the more I look at it, the more I think "This is what would happen if the F-35 and the F-4 produced a bastard child. All the worst features of both planes, and very little of the already minimal positives."
Personally, the only next gen fighter that really worries me is the Russian T-50, between Russia's missile technology and their emphasis on maneuvarability (and their ability to seemingly build very large numbers of everything in a very short time) it could be a deadly opponent. Chinas J-20 doesnt really bother me, they couldnt build a decent jet engine if their lives depended on it and to be honest, it looks more like a strike fighter/penetration bomber, except until they improve their air refueling ability and their support systems their ability to actually reach the intended targets is minimal (at least as long as the Navy doesnt sail a Carrier into the Strait of Taiwan...). The Indian PAK-FA might be interesting though...
The rest of the world are cottoning onto the fact that Western Airpower and force projection as a whole relies on C4, EW aircraft, and Tanker aircraft.
I think most of the current LO tech from Russia and China is being developed with getting to these assets first or using the threat to negate them.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Yeah, that is a major weakness we have.
Probably the next thing to do to counter them shooting down our refueling planes is to develop a fighter that can leave orbit. And then have orbital refueling stations/carriers.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
As for your assessment Burning, I would agree with you, especially since most plausible scenarios involve the west projecting power into a rivals backyard. Russia, China, et al. Are mostly posturing themselves as regional powers with military capabilities to match rather than global, and are building all sorts of great anti-access/area-denial weapons to match.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Its better than getting attacked by an interceptor. Plus it would certaintly mount an anti-missile laser.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Grey Templar wrote: Its better than getting attacked by an interceptor. Plus it would certaintly mount an anti-missile laser.
Well, refuelers would be less vulnerable if the Pentagon would pay more heed to Boyd and design lighter planes with higher fuel fractions. Theyd prolly be cheaper, more effective and lower maintenance too since you would do away with much of the unnecessary gold plating and ideally focus on specific roles rather than the multirole approach currently favored.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
What are down-swept wings normally for? And why would a plane have two sets of wings, or whatever. Since I am more intrigued by the crashing and blowing up of planes (waaagh), I know nothing about such things.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
They give you more lift on a smaller surface area IIRC.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
BLACK TEMPLARS - 2000 
0RkZ - 2000 
NIDZ - WIP 
STEEL LEGION - WIP 
~4100
