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Hey guys. So I finally got the CSM codex and added all the points together so here we go... P.S.I have not played a game with these guys yet...

HQ:
Chaos Lord w/ Power Sword and Plasma Pistol (95 Pts)

Troops:
CSM squad of 10 w/ Flamer, AC has Power Sword and Plasma Pistol (175 Pts)
Same as above but w/ Heavy Bolter (180 Pts)

Elites:
Squad of 6 Possessed w/ Mark of Nurgle (180 Pts)
Squad of 6 Thousand Sons (173 Pts)

Heavy Support:
Land Raider w/ Combi-Flamer and Havoc Launcher (252 Pts)

TOTAL: 1055 Pts


So what should I get for my army? I know all of you are going to say "GET THE DARK VENGEANCE BOX!!!!" Well, NO. I just dont like buying the Battalions/ Battleforces for some weird reason. So what should I get and what tactics would work? And yes... I will get a Heldrake no matter what anyone says...
So if you have any suggestions please post them. Thank You in advance. P.S. I feel like I added the points incorrectly, if someone were to check that would help.

More. Just more. Pick up a battleforce to supplement what you have, I know you said you don't like them, but it would build on what you already have. I usually run 15 or 20 man CSM squads just to get them where they need to be. I recommend getting some fasy attack elements if you like rip and tear, or maybe some Noise Marines if you like making anything in cover disappear like a parlor trick. I still proxy a lot as I branched into needs recently, but defilers are also very nice to scare the hell out of someone. Problem is its a huge fire magnet with that big cannon in his chest.

Cultist blob and heldrake

Obliterators, plague marines, spawn and havocs. It really depends on what kind of list you want to run. So what type of list are you trying/wanting to run?

What are you trying to accomplish here? Possessed are over costed and terrible. 1k sons aren't very good either

MoT on lord to make 1ksons troops. use your possessed as champions that take gom.

MoT on Sorc makes 1k sons troops. But if you can afford to fit enough in a list, most SM are gonna just cry (I grat you they are expensive)

POKEYtheBIG wrote:
Obliterators, plague marines, spawn and havocs. It really depends on what kind of list you want to run. So what type of list are you trying/wanting to run?

I like the idea of having a little bit of everything (that my eldar side talking, damn those aspect warriors). But that is what I want to do really. So I know for a fact that I HAVE to get a Heldrake (btw, bale flamer or hades autocannon?) I was also thinking of getting Abbadon (I have a Black Legion army) and a Sorcerer w/ mark of tzeentch so Chosen and Thousand Sons are troops. And I dont want to do a double-force-org than I would have to drop the lord. For troops I would probably get 1 or 2 squads of chosen. for elites I was thinking of a squad of Termies and 1 squad fo KB and 1 squad of noise marines. Fast Attack: Heldrake, Raptors, and MAYBE Warp Talons. And for heavy support Obliterators amd a Forge Fiend.

So if I could only get 3 things from this list, what should I get? P.S. Anyone know where I can get a squad of noise marines for cheap?

Baleflamer.

That last game I played with one, I had a single drake averaging over 11 killed Tau Firewariors a turn baleflamer alone. And the results would be the same against Space Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS that result is above average, as my friend was running max size Firewarrior squads and stuffed them into cover to protect them against my Autocannon/Heavy bolter Predators.

 Georgefancy wrote:

POKEYtheBIG wrote:
Obliterators, plague marines, spawn and havocs. It really depends on what kind of list you want to run. So what type of list are you trying/wanting to run?

I like the idea of having a little bit of everything (that my eldar side talking, damn those aspect warriors). But that is what I want to do really. So I know for a fact that I HAVE to get a Heldrake (btw, bale flamer or hades autocannon?) I was also thinking of getting Abbadon (I have a Black Legion army) and a Sorcerer w/ mark of tzeentch so Chosen and Thousand Sons are troops. And I dont want to do a double-force-org than I would have to drop the lord. For troops I would probably get 1 or 2 squads of chosen. for elites I was thinking of a squad of Termies and 1 squad fo KB and 1 squad of noise marines. Fast Attack: Heldrake, Raptors, and MAYBE Warp Talons. And for heavy support Obliterators amd a Forge Fiend.

So if I could only get 3 things from this list, what should I get? P.S. Anyone know where I can get a squad of noise marines for cheap?

Definitely get a Heldrake w/baleflamer. Then I would go with either Chosen or Termies. Look through your codex and really decide what role you want that Elite slot to serve and then which unit you think would best fill it. Personally I wouldn't even fool with Raptors or Talons and go for bikers. Lastly OBLITERATORS. They are one of my favorite units. I usually try to work at least 2 units of 2 in all my lists--very versatile and tough as nails w/ MoN.

Heavy Slots -

Oblits are not nearly as good as they use to be because you can not fire the same weapon two turns in a row. That is not something you want from your heavy weapon support, you want consistent fire every turn, what you need when you need it. I would take a Predator over Oblits any day of the week. They are cheaper than two Oblits and produce more firepower, specially with LC Sponsons. Preds are also AV 13, which is nothing to sneeze at. Mixing and matching Oblits (for their versatility and survivability with MoN and VotLW for +1 Ld) can be very effective if you have the points to dedicate to heavy slots. Havocs with a IoV and properly kitted out can also be effective, but you can no longer go with a minimum unit and expect them to stick around when shot... if you keep them cheap, expect them to run.

Fast -

Heldrake with Bale Flamer (AP 3) and Bikes are head and shoulders the best selections.

Elite -

Cult troops are all good, but Nurgle and Noise Marines are the best choices IMO. Terminators are great, as 6th is the Terminator edition. Everyone is running them if they can and everyone is out to counter them. Same with flyers really. Everything else is kinda expensive for what they give you to really be worth it. Take Chosen... sure, you can have 4-5 special wepaons, and the champ can have a combi-weapon, but all you have is a Rhino or Land Raider to get across the board to make use of all of those special weapons. Since they are so expensive, you can't spam them. IF Chaos had drop pods, and these guys could use them...would be one of the best units.

Troops -
The best troops are cult troops made into troops by having a Lord or Sorc that makes them such. Otherwise cultisits are... Gretchen. You buy a big mob and camp them on a home objective and hope they don't run. CSMs have the same issue they had in 5th... you need to kit them out properly with VotLW or IoV to keep them from running. Since Rhinos have two firing points, 10 man CSMs with 2 special weapons, Plague Marines with 2 special weapons (for only 5 guys) and Noise marines (also 5 guys) are the best choices for rhino/mech lists. Foot lists need larger mobs or Tougher mobs, so Nurgle and 1kSons are good foot units. Noise marines and CSMs are best for a Gunline (get a ADL as well) because of their weapons and the CSM getting a heavy weapon. Assault is Bezerkers, though CSMs and Noise Marines can be good if kitted out. Plague marines with their Blight nades and poisoned weapons (plus bolt pistol, so they get the extra +1 attack) are surprisingly good at CC... thus why they are by for the most popular troop choice. I think they are better at taking a charge than delivering, where the Zerkers and Noise Marines kinda shine.

Hope this helps.

HQ -
Lord with a Mark (if you buy one, it is on pg 91) to make cult troops 'Troops'. He is a great beat stick, and throwing him in Terminator armor or on a bike with Terminators or Bikes makes a death star. Sorcs should buy +2 mastery levels and also should be in Terminator armor or Bikes. A Lord without a Mark does nothing... but a Sorc without a Mark allows you to roll 3 times on Biomancy, Pyromancy, or Telepathy... otherwise he has to roll at least /once/ on his God's list of psyker powers. Personally I take a Mark (to match my Lord) and roll 1 on his list and 2 times on Biomancy. I then add him to the Lord's unit, as any buffs he rolls buffs everyone in the unit and everyone gets the benefit of a Icon (say Icon of Excess). After that, named characters and DPs come after this. You have to really love one, be making a fluff list, or have the points to blow on them.

Note...
All Champ equipment for units are bought separately . For example, Terminators... they are listed as 'Chaos Terminators' and a 'Terminator Champion'. Under where it says you can buy extra chaos terminators, it gives a list for war gear saying you can buy for 'any Chaos Terminator'. The 'Terminator Champion' is not a 'Chaos Terminator', they are different names, even though they are all wearing Terminator armor. The Champ's gear is listed under the Terminator options on pg 91 and he can also have a melta bomb. People mess this up for Chosen a lot as well, but the Champion has his own equipment list, even though it says 'Any model' for the special weapons. The champ can only get combi weapons as those are his options. I am sure this will start some flamers, so you can ask the people you play with their take and come to a agreement before you play if you use Chosen.

As a personal choice I actually use more Havocs than I do Oblit's. More wounds, and you don't have to swap off that lascannon every other turn to take out that Land Raider. I usually out fit them with 2 autocannon and 2 lascannon. Good for medium anti vehicle. Put the Champ up front to take the first two and then the 2 autocannons to protect the lascannons (or vice versa if you really need the extra shots).

I would suggest a Heldrake with Baleflamer backed up by a second Heldrake with Hades Autocannon.
The Hades-drake takes out fliers/vehicles, while the Bale-drake rapes the infantry.

Can't Chaos use a drop pod in the form of a dread claw? Pretty sure I sure it listed in one of the imperial Armour books (6 I think)

Becareful With Abaddon. He is great but he is expensive. Chosen have changed greatly from not having infiltrate and by extention outflanking in a rhino. If you do decide on Abby and his Chosen, then I recommend only a few squads of Chosen supported by any regular CSM and Cultists.

Couldn't you just run your lord as a Mark. of Tzeentch? Give him a blue rubber band around his neck, paint his shoulder paldron blue. Drill a hole into his base and insert the Icon of Tzeentch behind him as if he is carrying it. Turn that Icon of Tzeentch into a necklace and put it around his neck. You do not need to buy a Sorc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chosen+5 Flamers= BBQ

 Satan's Little Helper wrote:
Can't Chaos use a drop pod in the form of a dread claw? Pretty sure I sure it listed in one of the imperial Armour books (6 I think)

Im going to tell you right now. I will not use FW stuff. It just gets to complicated... And yes, I have tried it IA rules.

Plague-spam is often a staple for tournament armies.

(Just writing in ideas)

 Selym wrote:
Plague-spam is often a staple for tournament armies.

(Just writing in ideas)

WHAT IS SO AMAZING ABOUT PLAGUE MARINES!?!?!?!?!?!?

 Georgefancy wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Plague-spam is often a staple for tournament armies.

(Just writing in ideas)

WHAT IS SO AMAZING ABOUT PLAGUE MARINES!?!?!?!?!?!?

Toughness 5, 3+, FnP, can bring more plas/melta per man than CSM. Thematic. Made troops by Typhus. Look great. Perfect number + weapons for putting in a Rhino. Excellent vs Infantry. highly effective against armour with their weapons.

So any opinion on Abaddon and/ or noise marines?

 Georgefancy wrote:
So any opinion on Abaddon and/ or noise marines?

Personnally, I prefer Noise Marines over Plague Marines but that is debatable.

If you get a MoS Lord, then you can go pretty crazy...

Noise Marine: 5 w Blastmaster 125
Noise Marine: 10 w Sonic Blasters 210

Both of these are firepower units with the Sonic Blaster unit being more mobile. (Too big of a hit on blastmasters in my mind.)

Noise Marines: 10 w CCW, VotLW, Champion w Siren and Lightning Claw 220
Noise Marines: 10 w extra CCW, VotLW, Champion w Siren and Lightning Claw 240

Both of these are HTH units... with the second still being able to fire at range because they have their bolters.

Noise Marine: 8 w CCW, 2 w Blastmasters VotLW, Champion w Siren and Lightning Claw 280

This is the unit set up for being in a Rhino... 2 Blastmasters that can fire out each turn.

Of course you have the option of adding the Icon to gain FNP.

I like them because they can do all pretty well. Plague Marines - due to cost - never are cost effective to provide you with numbers. Usually you see Plague Marine lists with 5-man or 7-man squads. A little too tight in numbers for my liking...

Berzerkers just too short ranged and 1000 Sons just too much shooty for my liking.

Here's my take:

HQ:
- Daemon Princes rule. They can't unlock Troops like a Lord can, but with a Black Mace they can wreck faces, and can provide good Psyker support (MoT re-rolls armour and invul saves of 1)
- Lords are good for unlocking Troops. A Nurgle Lord with MoN, Burning Brand of Skalathrax, and Sigil or Corruption is a good start.

Troops:
- Plague Marines beat all. T5, FnP, two special weapons in a squad of 5. They are a great place to start.

Elites:
- none worth mentioning

Fast Attack:
-Heldrakes. Get two

Heavy Support:
- Defilers do well in 6th with 4 hull points. Give it a Dirge Caster and go gobble troops, shooting as you move.
- Oblits have always worked well for me. Deep Strike with a TL-Melta and watch AV14 go boom.
- Forgefiends aren't anything to laugh at either. Hades Autocannons do very well against troops.

 Mizzri wrote:
Here's my take:

HQ:
- Daemon Princes rule. They can't unlock Troops like a Lord can, but with a Black Mace they can wreck faces, and can provide good Psyker support (MoT re-rolls armour and invul saves of 1)
- Lords are good for unlocking Troops. A Nurgle Lord with MoN, Burning Brand of Skalathrax, and Sigil or Corruption is a good start.
-Abaddon and Typhus are useful force multipliers, and are rape train melee characters.

Troops:
- Plague Marines beat all. T5, FnP, two special weapons in a squad of 5, and come with Plague Knives (Poison 4+). They are a great place to start.

Elites:
-Terminators can be useful for deep strike
-Raptors/Warp Talons help break gunlines.

Fast Attack:
-Heldrakes. Get two. But not both Baleflamers, give one the Hades Autocannon for slightly more anti-armour, and to prevent proclamations of "Cheese!".

Heavy Support:
- Defilers do well in 6th with 4 hull points. Give it a Dirge Caster and go gobble troops, shooting as you move.
- Oblits have always worked well for me. Deep Strike with a TL-Melta and watch AV14 go boom.
- Forgefiends aren't anything to laugh at either. Hades Autocannons do very well against troops and some vehicles.

Fix'd

DAaddict wrote:

 Georgefancy wrote:
So any opinion on Abaddon and/ or noise marines?

Personnally, I prefer Noise Marines over Plague Marines but that is debatable.

If you get a MoS Lord, then you can go pretty crazy...

Noise Marine: 5 w Blastmaster 125
Noise Marine: 10 w Sonic Blasters 210

Both of these are firepower units with the Sonic Blaster unit being more mobile. (Too big of a hit on blastmasters in my mind.)

Noise Marines: 10 w CCW, VotLW, Champion w Siren and Lightning Claw 220
Noise Marines: 10 w extra CCW, VotLW, Champion w Siren and Lightning Claw 240

Both of these are HTH units... with the second still being able to fire at range because they have their bolters.

Noise Marine: 8 w CCW, 2 w Blastmasters VotLW, Champion w Siren and Lightning Claw 280

This is the unit set up for being in a Rhino... 2 Blastmasters that can fire out each turn.

Of course you have the option of adding the Icon to gain FNP.

I like them because they can do all pretty well. Plague Marines - due to cost - never are cost effective to provide you with numbers. Usually you see Plague Marine lists with 5-man or 7-man squads. A little too tight in numbers for my liking...

Berzerkers just too short ranged and 1000 Sons just too much shooty for my liking.

Im sorry. I have to agree with this one. Plague Marines just arent my style. And think I will use my possessed as my assaulty guys but I might keep my TS though. And 2 (frickin 2!) Blastmasters shooting out of a Rhino sounds AMAZING to me. So if I were to get them would I need to get (for actually building them) 1 squad of CSM, the Noise Marines Upgrade pack and the Noise Marines Sonic Weapons sprues? I know it would only make 1 squad of ten but its better than nothing. and I throw that in a rhino?

Page 99 – Noise Marines, Wargear.
Add “Close combat weapon (Champion Only)”

Page 99 – Noise Marines, Options.
Change the third bullet point to “One Noise Marine may
replace his boltgun with a blastmaster at 30 pts/model. If the
squad numbers ten or more models, an additional Noise
Marine may replace his boltgun with a blastmaster at 30
pts/model..”


I figured I would throw this up for clarification. This is the errata from the GW site. With things like this, you can not run just one unit. If you did, it would make them to big of a target. Having at least 2 ten man units makes it hard for your opponent to focus fire (well, they are in rhinos). But I would look at running 4 five man units with a single blastmaster in rhinos, with the goal being to overwhelm them with rhinos and blastmasters. This also makes them pretty cheap so you can get more. Make note that a Blastmaster used as the Str 8, AP 3 shot counts as a heavy weapon, so your snap shooting if the rhino moves.

 BlkTom wrote:


Note...
All Champ equipment for units are bought separately . For example, Terminators... they are listed as 'Chaos Terminators' and a 'Terminator Champion'. Under where it says you can buy extra chaos terminators, it gives a list for war gear saying you can buy for 'any Chaos Terminator'. The 'Terminator Champion' is not a 'Chaos Terminator', they are different names, even though they are all wearing Terminator armor. The Champ's gear is listed under the Terminator options on pg 91 and he can also have a melta bomb. People mess this up for Chosen a lot as well, but the Champion has his own equipment list, even though it says 'Any model' for the special weapons. The champ can only get combi weapons as those are his options. I am sure this will start some flamers, so you can ask the people you play with their take and come to a agreement before you play if you use Chosen.

I'm sorry, but my OCD simply demands that I say something about this. Its great that you bring this subject to light, but you've made one big error:
There is no way that a termie champ can take melta bombs, all he gets is equipment from the Terminator Weapons section, and the possibility to buy a Gift of Mutation. Nothing more.
Phew, good to get that monkey of m back.

Back on topic, I think Plague Marines are slightly overrated, and will always take Noise marines before them.

Blakman wrote:

 BlkTom wrote:


Note...
All Champ equipment for units are bought separately . For example, Terminators... they are listed as 'Chaos Terminators' and a 'Terminator Champion'. Under where it says you can buy extra chaos terminators, it gives a list for war gear saying you can buy for 'any Chaos Terminator'. The 'Terminator Champion' is not a 'Chaos Terminator', they are different names, even though they are all wearing Terminator armor. The Champ's gear is listed under the Terminator options on pg 91 and he can also have a melta bomb. People mess this up for Chosen a lot as well, but the Champion has his own equipment list, even though it says 'Any model' for the special weapons. The champ can only get combi weapons as those are his options. I am sure this will start some flamers, so you can ask the people you play with their take and come to a agreement before you play if you use Chosen.

I'm sorry, but my OCD simply demands that I say something about this. Its great that you bring this subject to light, but you've made one big error:
There is no way that a termie champ can take melta bombs, all he gets is equipment from the Terminator Weapons section, and the possibility to buy a Gift of Mutation. Nothing more.
Phew, good to get that monkey of m back.

Back on topic, I think Plague Marines are slightly overrated, and will always take Noise marines before them.

Thank you for the correction. I was thinking Lords and Sorcs in Terminator armor can have Melta bombs.

some people have suggested taking two heldrakes, but taking the hades auto cannon to avoid cheese.... dont avoid cheese, cut cheese into thick slices and put n everything!

take two drakes and baleflamer on both.

 zachwho wrote:
some people have suggested taking two heldrakes, but taking the hades auto cannon to avoid cheese.... dont avoid cheese, cut cheese into thick slices and put n everything!

take two drakes and baleflamer on both.

Then balance with some good anti armour (Preferably Str 8+)

 Selym wrote:

 zachwho wrote:
some people have suggested taking two heldrakes, but taking the hades auto cannon to avoid cheese.... dont avoid cheese, cut cheese into thick slices and put n everything!

take two drakes and baleflamer on both.

Then balance with some good anti armour (Preferably Str 8+)

So if I got 2 Heldrakes w/ Baleflamers and got a Forgefiend w/ 2 Hades Auto Cannons would that work? also after I get the NM w/ Rhino would it be a good idea to get Obliterators? or should I get a Heldrake? Perhaps even a squad of Termies?