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eflix29 wrote:
The Lead Artist for CSM needs to stop playing Yu Gi Ho. Belly canon, really ?
Big monolith ? why not something new, instead of a cheap and quick conversion ?

big disapoinment...

Cheap and quick?
Did you actually look at the model and have you ever seen a Monolith?

That thing looks as much as a Monolith as a Terminator looks like an ASM.

Hmm..
Who is willing to bet that they'd make a 50 Euro Apocalypse book and that every army gets a supplement for their units and formations for another 30 or so?

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
If you honestly feel like that, you won't mind if I replace your miniatures with My Little Pony toys, right? All toys are essentially interchangeable, right?
Right. Thought not. Your argument is knaveish and dishonest.

Ofcourse he minds, because Warhammer is much more expensive than MLP-toys.
But in the end it are both toys.

Well, this thread seems to have a few pics: http://boards.4chan.org/tg/res/25678136

The case is really amazing, makes me wish I had the money.

Well, the /tg/-thread has more Tesseract Vault pictures.
Once again GW managed to make me poor

 insaniak wrote:
A while back, people were joking that when GW finally realised that equalising prices would be a good idea for keeping customers happier, they would do it the GW way, and lift everyone else's prices to match ours, rather than going the other way.
Sadly, going by the last few releases, this does indeed appear to be the way they choose to go.

We also joked about the 'one-click deals' being more expensive than doing it the "slower" way.
Maybe we should start joking about them lowering the prices?

 tarnish wrote:
You would be surprised how much money teenagers can manipulate out of their grown-ups....

Is that a new trend on the internet: "I don't like it, therefore it's marketed towards 14 year old kids!" ?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Technically impossible. Scarabs are part of the Necron Warrior sprue, so you'll get them regardless of whether it says they're included. They mightn't give you any 40mm bases, but that's a different issue.

But it's a one-click deal.
Don't they just send you 10 boxes of Warriors?

I really doubt that creating a new mould or repacking them would save them enough money to make it worth it.

orc master wrote:
When having a look at the more troop heavy IG formations i noticed your actualy getting more bang for your money when not ordering the one click deals....
catachan ambush patroll => 3 troops with HW + HQ
or battleforce + troop = same money + free sentinel ( and 6 left over troopers)

Could we please stop mentioning this before GW reads it and decides to "fix" it by removing Battleforces from their website?

 mjl7atlas wrote:
So any sightings of the fabled "terrain large enough to hide a wraithknight behind?

It's probably the Aquila Strongpoint

I agree on some points.
The D6+6 seems too strong unless you are fighting Phantom Titans with 24 HP.
It’s even worse when we look at wounds! Seeing as wounds can only go to 10, you have a 1 in 12-chance to one-shot any non-vehicle model when you hit it. (6 followed by 4+)
Not quite fair if you think about it.
Remember that the C’tan is rumoured around 1k points Or the Tyranid Bio-Titan at around 1k points.
In my opinion it should have been D6+3 on a 6 or they should give GMC more than 10 wounds.

It’s really sad that inv-saves mean nothing to a D-shot.
Why pay 40 for a terminator if they die just as easily as a 6 point Ork-Boy?

Yeah, everything has a counter if you have enough money. Which is the fundamental problem: people who buy specific armies for Apocalypse have a huge advantage over people who just bring their normal-40k collection.

Don’t invite that person and laugh as his 2k dollar collection is collecting dust.
Life is pay to win, you cannot stop that behavior.
It’s useless to complain about that behavior in a game like Warhammer 40k.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
What good is 3000 points of Guard infantry?

You missed the part where you and your friends are going to have an awesome time with 3k points of infantry!
Apocalypse isn't about you spending money to win games, it's about you and your friends spending money to have a great time.

Who doesn't want to see a Tesseract Vault wiping away 50+ guardsmen, followed by those guardsmen firing everything they got at it while it crashed down on a pack of Orks?

So now formations are lazy and stupid because you feel forced to buy models you will probably never use in 40k since you desperately want to win at a game of Apocalypse?

Me. Why do I care about 50+ irrelevant guardsmen dying and their survivors trying to shoot the latest "buy a $150 model and win 40k" toy?

The vault will probably be around 800 points.
800 points of Guardsmen will wipe that thing off the table AND they cost more.

So now who is paying to win?
I'm actually spending 100 Euro on a model that I cannot use in a normal game ánd that gets easily tabled by models that can be brought to a normal game.

(Not that I'd bring the infantry in the first place, since the last thing Apocalypse needs is more tedious movement and dice rolling for giant horde units.)

In that case you really don't get the spirit of Apocalypse:
Apocalypse is a new way of playing games of Warhammer 40,000. Allowing you to field as many miniatures as you like, in any combination, there really are no limits to what you can do.

I hate how they didn't make pictures of any model-rules :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 juanjopotro wrote:
Hey guys!
You can find a lot of pics of the Apocalypse's Rulebook at this site
http://forofreakfactory.mforos.com/1035375/11241774-rumores-y-fotos-de-apocalipsis-en-julio-novedades-a-dia-09-julio/#103049376

I love you

 Vaktathi wrote:
Having to deal with deploying and then quickly removing 50 guardsmen en-masse due to a necron thingy and then having a horde or orks come from nowhere doesn't sound much fun or very thematic.

to me.
You forgot two words at the end of that sentence

I would also advice you against buying anything Apocalypse-related, as it's obviously not the game-mode for you.

 BrassScorpion wrote:
It seems that all the new datasheets in the new Apocalypse book are just sheets for stock models, there aren't really sheets for converted builds. There's no encouragement therefore to go crazy kit bashing. It wasn't necessary before for people not up to it as there were plenty of datasheets for stock models, but there were also sheets for those of us nutty hobbyists who like to make wild conversions. It doesn't appear there's any encouragement via datasheets to do that now.

Well yeah.. ofcourse they do that.
Could you imagine how pissed off SoB-players would be if they don't bother making formations for them when they DO make rules for stuff they don't even have models of?

Eyjio wrote:
Also, that Infinite Phalanx for Necrons looks a little OTT. Fearless (so always allowed RP unless wiped or D weaponed) plus relentless (because why not) plus it all counts as a blob unit? Mental. That's BEFORE the buffs to RP...

With the added downside of spending around 2k points on Necron Warriors
It's quite fluffy and I like it, there is nothing I would fear more in RL than facing 150 killer robots!

That's why you should add at least 5 Lords!

Extra fun: Put 150+ Warriors on the Tomb Citadel with a Res Orb.
You have RP2+ and you can reroll the 1's.

Nevermind, the Orb doesn't lower the number you need.. It tells us they pass the test on a 4+

But still: 3+ RP with rerolls on the 1.
If 36 Warriors die, you will have 6 who stay dead and 2 who fail the reroll.
So 28 out of 36 get back up!

It's a secret GW might sue them!

demontalons wrote:
Has there been any word on the regular 40k Fortification rules?

On some websites I have seen people unpacking the Vault and Mr Evil-Tracks, so we should probably see those rules within the next 12 hours.

Blast: 3"
Large Blast: 5"
Massive Blast: 7"
Apocalyptic Blast: 10"
Apocalyptic Mega-Blast: 5/10/15"

You can go to his Gallery and zoom in on them, the Weapon Batteries are quite awesome.

He can, he just chose to go Digital

meh_ wrote:
So this means they can't be manned and they are automated only?

Well, the Batteries can't have models in them at all and the Redoubt has a special rule to stop them from using it.

BS2 isn't that bad!
Heavy 20 means that you'll hit 7 rounds and against T4 that are around 5 wounds.
Heavy 2 with Twin-Linked results into 1.11 hit on average. You also have two of them, so you have 2.22 hits from the entire thing.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't buy it. If that was the case, why start now? Why weren't they doing it earlier?

They had to fire the one board-member who wanted to lower the price because of this save on plastic.

It targets flyers, what else would you want from it?

 pretre wrote:
There are three night scythes on the table. Two are empty (having deposited their troops). One has 5 immortals in it and is positioned to drop them off on an objective on your side of the board on its turn. I would love to shoot the important one.

Well, very easy: You can't have that for 200 points.

Let's compare it to the new IA12 - Sentry Pylon with Gauss Exterminator
Pylon has 2 more BS, but no Twin Linked so it slightly wins.
This bunker has AV14 vs T7, the bunker clearly wins.
The bunker can also carry and give cover to 20 models.

135 points vs 200 points, so yeah.. making it automated fire is the least they could do to prevent it from being included into almost every list.

Good luck shooting fliers with your S7, AP4 :')

Let's focus on the Icarus Lascannon, Twinlinked would make it 50 (TL-weapons are usually 50% more expensive)
That would set it at 175 points.
So you are paying 25 points to actually have that amount of firepower and it's automated.
Downside is that you cannot use manual fire.
Another upside is that it semi-ignores the "shoot at closest target" by still preferring enemy fliers if they are within range.

Let's say I spend 200 points on each:
Bastion gets a tactical squad and one shot at BS4, that's 0.67 hit.
Redoubt gets 4 shots at BS3.5 which comes down to 2.22 hits.
That are 3.33 as many hits.

So again: Making it unable to be manually fired is the right thing to do.
It would be overpowered if you could give it BS4 AND pick your own targets.

 Kirasu wrote:
Yeah except that automated fire makes it completely ineffective as a firing platform except against bad opponents or those with 1 flyer (You shouldn't base your armies around your opponent being bad). Not being able to target units is makes this not worth using at all, sad really GW ruined a cool piece of terrain but not surprising.

Then don't buy it?
Not every new model has to be an auto-include in every army-list ever made.

 pretre wrote:
Umm, no, it would still be 125. Bastion is 75.

You forgot the part where the Redoubt has TWO of those cannons.
GW values a S9, AP2, interceptor/skyfire weapon at 35 points.
Twinlinked usually adds 50%, so that makes it 50 points.
Ooh, did I mention you have four of those shots?

The Bastion is 75 points for AV14 and 20-model capacity.
Add 200 points for the weaponry and you'd be at 275.
But since the thing is automated only, you get a gigantic 75 points discount.
That is fair.

No, you're paying 75 for 2 extra shots. It shoots at closest flier/fmc first and then at closest enemy. Still not good.

See my comment above!

At a target you can't choose.

Yup, it's dedicated anti-air. Don't expect it to bring down everything in the game for you.

No, it'd be worth taking for 200-250 points.

Hahahaha, it would be an auto-include for every army at 200 points.

Hmm, that Finest Hour is interesting.
Personal buffs are nice, they really help when your Warlord is about to Assault.
Commander seems weird.. Relentless, Stubborn and Crusader seem really out of place! I guess I will never use that table.
Examplery is great indeed Although seeing the super-overwatch makes me go "Meeh."

 pretre wrote:
I see where you get your math now. I just don't think it is worth it for 200. Automated is a BIG disadvantage.

I know it is, but giving it manual fire would be insane
Imagine that thing with a Dev-squad on it, with the Sgt manning it..
It would make almost every other anti-Tank/flyer look bad.
You don't want stuff like that with a fortification that everyone (except Nids) could use.

I don't get this. Would you accept a 'dedicated anti-tank' unit in your army that could only shoot at the nearest tank? Oh yeah, there's already one of those: Tankbustas. Those things are certainly flying into lists across the country. lol

Yes, I would accept that.
And I would even play it sometimes, but it would not be an auto-include in every list I make.

Agreed. Which is why I would pay 250.

If you could man the gun, I wouldn't settle for anything less than 350 to prevent the impact this would have.

You can activate Finest Hour at the start of any of your turns.
It lasts until the start of your next turn
He gets 3++, Eternal Warrior and can order an All-out Attack.
But when he dies during Finest Hour, the opponent gets an additional VP.

All-out Attack is when you pick a unit you own and you triple the movement
It cannot shoot or run, but is not affected by difficult terrain (treat it as dangerous instead).

Space Marines can choose to 'channel the power of their Primarch through their Warlord' instead of rolling on those tables.

 pretre wrote:
Because it would be so horrible to cut back on flyers a bit?

There is a difference between cutting back on fliers in competitive play and completely annihilating their use in any game whatsoever

So yeah.. Am I the only one pissed of with the formations?

Examples:
Green Tide needs 10 units.
Cron Phalanx needs 10.
The Monolith one NEEDS 8!

I already miss the days where I could play Formations without spending another 300 Euro on models I will never use outside of Apoc. Eight liths, seriously -_-'

 Squigsquasher wrote:
If you want to, yeah. At the end of the day, if you're playing in a club/at home with a bunch of friends, you can do what you want. It's only with tournaments where it matters, and even then they're a lot more "for the lulz" than most tournaments.

Yeah, I know.. but still..
Do you really want a book where you have to House-Rule 90% because nobody can field that amount of models?

I was very hopeful, since the Cron-thing had a line with "if at least 100 models". It made me believe that the minimum was 50 or so.

And I would really like to do the Wings of Sanguinius.. Then I read that I need at least 100 Assault Marines with JP's =/
When I read the one-click deals, I saw this line:
"This One-Click Collection contains all you need to field the Wings of Sanguinius Apocalypse Formation. It includes: 1 Blood Angels Vanguard Veteran; 1 Chaplain with Jump Pack; 1 The Sanguinor; 1 set of Sanguinary Guard; and 20 Assault Squads."
I thought they were greedy by instantly offering the maximum for that formation. Seems they were extra greedy since that crap is actually the 'minimum'!
Would it be that bad to make it "2-10" Assault Squads instead of "10!"?

It's not that I am opposed to buying models to finish a formation, but the minimum needed for those formations is just way too big.
And don't forget that the new book has over 100 of those! My entire group can probably ignore 90 out of those 100.