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I have, so far, run a pretty standard Mech Guard list with pure vet squads, LR's, and vendettas but I've been looking through the codex and online for ideas on how to mix it up and surprise my opponets. Since the Guard codex is one of the older ones, looking up ideas is rather confusing as I seem to run into -alot- of older styles/lists from 5th edition.

I got some ideas to either nix my vet squads entirely or not to have as many of them and instead put mechanized platoons in with al'raheem. I thought about adding creed and an astropath into my list with hellhounds to outflank both the platoon and hellhounds. I'd probably have a vet squad or two in back supported by LR's, rolling up slowly or hanging back.

I also have a theme for my army, an armoured fist/panzer division, so I tend to stay away from Vendettas even though I have them and even most of the artillery as I like the idea of the blitzkrieg... but the vets + LR's haven't been able to move up fast enough for my liking.

What do you think of this idea? I don't need maximum viability I just need to not get my face smashed in every time so I can have fun with my theme. If you have any better ideas to mix up the mech guard list I'd be happy to hear them as well especially if it fits my theme. Thanks!

There's a lot you can do to mix up mech guard. If you traditionally take Russes and chimeravets and play fairly defensively, then you might enjoy going completely the other way and having a mechvet/Hellhound Charge of the Light Brigade, get right to the midfield fast and start blasting. This will end up being more manoeuvrable than Russes, at any rate.

With meched platoons, there are pros and cons. Pros are that you can get EVEN MORE multilasers and Heavy Bolters/Flamers, and add to the armour saturation in the list. Scoring units are also cheaper. Cons are that this gives you more Kill Points to lose, and that instead of having 3 plasma/melta firing from the top, you only get one. So you're getting less bang for your buck, but more HP/AV/wounds. It does shift the focus of the list to the HS and FA slots for killing power if that's something you're looking for. You get more points for the Russes and Hounds.

Of course, you could always take a mech platoon in place of a couple of Vet squads and have a mix, which could be a nice middle ground. If you take Creed/Al'rahem and outflank a platoon of 3-4 Chimeras it will certainly be different, and probably fairly effective. For a purely competitive game it's too random/inefficient, but for fun it might be cool if you have enough chimeras to pull it off.

Another option for a flanking force is Stormtroopers in Chimeras outflanking, you pay a little more than carapace vets but it's not that bad, and gives you more firepower than outflanking platoons.

Hope that gives you some ideas.

Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it... will have to digest some of the ideas you've given me.

For the stormtroopers, would you use a full squad in chimeras or just take the standard 5 mans to limit the point sink? I've never had much luck with stormtroopers.

I am a huge fan of Stormtroopers en masse, mostly in a DS capacity, but as part of a mech force I would advise taking minimum squads with max special weapons, to limit the points cost like you say. Just don't expect them to live more than a turn outside of the Chimera.

You could also make use of the other Special Operations, maybe by scouting them forward to keep up with Fast Hellhounds to really put the pressure on early. You could also use them as suicide melta DS units while using them to get more Chimeras to add more mid-S guns and AV12.

Don't bother with the outflanking in this case. Just take the hellhounds and chimeras, put them up on the front of your deployment zone and move everything flat-out straight forward on turn one. Or, well, don't with the hellhounds proper if you don't have to.

I'll link you to these games here, here, here, here, here, here, and here. There are various weaknesses, of course, but it certainly is fun to play. Plus, it looks pretty sweet when you charge your entire mech army across the table in one turn.

Otherwise, if you want to mix up a mech list, you could consider taking stormtroopers in chimeras, either to outflank with al'rahem, or to just take advantage of their scout move. Likewise, if you wanted to use creed, think about scouting, rather than outflanking, a pair of punishers, or something.

Also, not as a strategy, but as a single unit, 5x ogryn with a lord commissar in a chimera is hilarious. The chimera rolls forward 6" and then suddenly outputs 21 S5 shots. Plus, overwatch is a beast, and if things do come to physical blows, ogryn aren't bad in close combat against most things, and a powerfist lord commissar with two characters for challenge management means that you've got a lot to tangle back with.

Yeah, I forgot to mention an Ogryn Squad. They can add a very unexpected CC threat (and unlike most things in these lists are still dangerous after the chimera is popped, and take very little damage from the explosion). As mentioned above, they are also very shooty at short range. With the volume of shots, you'll be a terror to both light vehicles and infantry of all stripes.

Furthermore, if you have a spare HQ slot, try adding a Primaris psyker to this squad as well. An extra 2d6 mid-strength shots is never a bad thing.

Well, at least I feel like I had the right idea with the minimum squad size then for mech lol. The scouting sounds better than the outflanking... more reliable then waiting for it to come in from reserve I guess.

For the HQ spot, would you say the CCS is mandatory? I was trying to run a Lord Commissar to cut down on points so I could squeeze in as many Troops, FA and HS as possible since it feels like IG HQ slots aren't as decisive/powerful as other armies.

Throw some artillery in there. Snag you some stormtroopers or something.

i would take a ccs simply because it's 90 points for four meltas vs 130 points for three meltas in a veteran squad.

Obviously you have to be sensible and bring enough vets, but ccs are a great way of bringing cheap special weapons to the table.

Only bring a lord commissar if you want the people he's with to get into close combat, a mech list has no use whatsoever for him otherwise.

What about the Primaris Psyker instead of the LC then? You're right that it's a cheap four meltas but put them in a chimera it turns into 145 points. That's an entire vet squad.

I'd personally take a Primaris or Lord Commissar for mech lists, yes a CCS is good for the points but the orders are wasted and you're probably better off just going with a vet squad.

Primaris comes with better shooting and a power weapon off the bat, rather than having to pay. The opportunity to get some good buffs on Biomany is also amazing if you get Endurance or Enfeeble, and both are awesome with Ogyrn. Give him a force staff for the +2S and he adds some attacks that synergise well with Ogryn, and Lightning Arc matches ripper guns fairly well.

So for me, Primaris edges it over the LC as Leadership is less important for mech lists and other than that, the Lord Commissar also needs more points invested in him to make him effective, requiring a power fist or plasma pistol to be useful.

The CCS is one of the best units in the game, generally. Interestingly enough, though, not in a guard mech list. Because you can't give orders to units that are embarked on a transport (including his own unit), and because a regimental standard doesn't work while the CCS is in the can (and leadership is less of a problem), that leaves the fact that you get a bunch of BS4 plasma or melta... which you already get from all those mechvets you're bringing.

A CCS does allow you to take another chimera, and they're not a BAD choice, of course, but it does feel like I could just take a primaris psyker for a fraction of the cost and spend those saved points on something else...

Harker is a psudo chimera that, with forward sentries, gives your vets +2 to their cover saves. I've heard of two ways of running him, either with plasma guns to outflank, or with snipers and a second heavy bolter to infiltrate into cover and be a forward fire base that is hard to get rid of (unless they ignore cover).

Depending on what your opponent runs, Harker might even give your vets more durability than a chimera would, and they can hold objectives while still benefiting from the defense that he brings. Plus, if you're charging your tanks forward, then your opponent probably has more pressing concerns than a hard to move vet squad.

If you want to spam some cheep chimera troops you can Cotaez as an ally from the new codex Inquisition. He is a battle brother from this codex so can cast his divination powers on your guys. He also adds a bit of deepstrike defence for your army which mech guard can have a problem with. He also has the option of getting a few Land Raiders which could be useful of you want to spam AV14 though its generally better to try and Spam AV 12.

If you want to switch up the mech army I would suggest just dropping the number of vets you have an increase the russ and hellhound variants you have. How many points are you playing at?

I would use maybe 4 vet squads and 3 hell hounds. Then I typically take ccs in chimera with plasma but whatever you want. After that just throw in some russes to have some big guns.

I've realized mech lists can seem pretty repetitive and hard to change up. But sometimes you just have to try some fun stuff. Maybe try out the creed and Alrahem combo and outflank a mech platoon with a squad of hellhounds keep russes on the board as they have the best range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also ontop of how many points you play at what exactly is your list so we can tweak it and see what different options there are.

My normal list was something like... (these aren't exact numbers)

CCS - 4x melta, chimera

CCS - 4x melta, chimera

Elite - N/A

Troops

Vets x2 - 3x Plasma, chimera

Vets x2 - 3x Melta, chimera

Fast attack -

Hellhound

Heavy Support -

2x - LR Exterminators + Sponsons

2x - LR Executioners + Sponsons

Again, not exact as I think I'd cut a little here and there but that was generally the list, I'd mix up the LR variants and such.

I just had alot of fun the other in a smaller 2v2 game running a list with double hell hounds + a mechanized platoon with Al`Rahem, the outflanking platoon actually won us the game.

Any specific point level you play at? because without sponsons on the executioners you are just under 1850 points so if you go at higher points the list is deffinitly viable.

What I would do is maybe drop one of the CCS and 2 of the vet squads and then see if you can put in an out flanking al rahem mech platoon. I believe from that you could get maybe the PCS and 3 PIS all in chimeras. Im not sure how much al rahem costs as I dont have my codex on me.

I have been running mech/vets for a long while now. Not saying I am the best player or authority over all that is the Imperial Guard, there are others who will eventually post saying whatever they say is scripture. However;

1. I don't run alot of russes, If I do, i usually run two exterminators in a squadron. I just like those tanks.

2. Stormtroopers. I run them in groups of 5. Two speacial weapons, melta x2 or plasma gun x2 w/ a plasma pistol.

3. Deepstrike your storm troopers. I feel it works better than them in a chimera.

4. Harker, as others have stated, infiltrate. I use sniper rifle x3 w/ a heavy bolter team. Give them forward sentries, and, well, they can sit pretty well. However, with all the ways to ignore cover now, it seems they might get phased out of the list.

5. If you decide to play a more defensive game, look for a way to get an ADL w/ quad gun. That is 100 points of greatness. I use my CCS behind it, and sometimes hide my two manticores behind it, to help get that save.

6. If you are looking to vary it up a bit, I do suggest that running a squadron of three scout sentinels, either with multi lasers, auto cannon (i prefer) or lascannons. You can either scout, or outflank with them and get some good side/rear armor shots. The high strength weapons help, however, the poor BS doesn't.

Trying this list out when I play today.

CCS - Creed, Astropath, Chimera

Troops -

Platoon -
PCS + Al`Rahem, Chimera, 4x Melta
IS, IS, 2x Flamers
SWS, SWS, Chimera, Chimera, 3x melta, 3x melta, 6x Demo charges

Vet Squad - 3x Plasma, Chimera

Vet Squad - 3x Plasma, Chimera

FA -

Hellhound

Hellhound

Heavy Support -

Exterminator - HB Sponsons

Exterminator - HB Sponsons

Punisher - HB Sponsons

Comes out to 1850 exactly unless I missed something.

Look solid list-wise. The only thing I'd advise against is Creed, as his extra and better orders are wasted in this list with so few eligible recipients.

Also, that loadout for the SWS is not legal, I think you can only take 3 upgrades per squad, and can't have demos+meltas on the same guys.

Other than that, it's fine. The points you'd save from dropping Creed and legalising the Demos could grab you another vet squad.

I read the SWS load-out thing a couple times as well and the way it was written, it seems legal. I could definitely be wrong though.

It says they "three guardsmen must choose one of the following options". I read that as "they must take an upgrade" but it doesn't strictly limit them to one only. I'm probably messing with the language too much but that's how I read it haha.

I took Creed for the sole purpose of outflanking the squadroned Hellhounds WITH the platoon, with the astropath that should make that possibility fairly likely. If I wasn't doing that I'd do exactly what you recommended and remove him.

If the demo guys aren't legal... which one to keep then. The meltas or demos lol.

Yep, just checked the SWS, it says that 3 guardsmen MUST choose ONE of the following options, so it is only one gun/weapon and on only 3 guardsmen. So you're stuck with 3.

I'd take the meltas, as Demo Charges are hard to get into position and use effectively, even in Chimeras. The meltas are more useful and easier to use. You're also a little short on Anti-AV14, so they are more useful there.

I see the plan with Creed now. It still seems like weighty investment for a trick that may or may not pay off. Try it out and see, and if it works, great, but if not, then don't be afraid to swap it out. This and the Demos gives you around 220 more points to play with, which could grab you a lot of stuff. If you do swap them out, I'd grab one of these:

Another vet squad. Nice and reliable.

A Vendetta if you see a lot of fliers (although by the look of the list that's not a concern)

An infantry platoon to babysit a home objective with Lascannons

Some Stormies for melta DS/outflank.

Can you even buy Chimeras for SWSs? IIRC they don't have that option, and they would have to climb into someone else's on turn 1. That list also seems like it is a little lacking in serious anti-vehicle capabilities to me. You might want to consider adding more melta weaponry, lascannons, etc.

If the people you play with don't mind FW, you could get autocannons on your Chimeras for 5 points each (or twin-linked heavy bolters for 10 points, but why would you do that?). That could help you glance AV 13 to death, especially if you bring lots of them. And RL armoured divisions have organic helo support (as in, the helicopters are a part of the division), so taking a pair of Vendettas wouldn't be too much of a stretch.

 Talore wrote:
Can you even buy Chimeras for SWSs? IIRC they don't have that option, and they would have to climb into someone else's on turn 1. That list also seems like it is a little lacking in serious anti-vehicle capabilities to me. You might want to consider adding more melta weaponry, lascannons, etc.

You buy the Chimeras for the IS and with the new rules you just give the Chimera to the SWS while they're in reserve.

 Paradigm wrote:
Yep, just checked the SWS, it says that 3 guardsmen MUST choose ONE of the following options, so it is only one gun/weapon and on only 3 guardsmen. So you're stuck with 3.

I'd take the meltas, as Demo Charges are hard to get into position and use effectively, even in Chimeras. The meltas are more useful and easier to use. You're also a little short on Anti-AV14, so they are more useful there.

I see the plan with Creed now. It still seems like weighty investment for a trick that may or may not pay off. Try it out and see, and if it works, great, but if not, then don't be afraid to swap it out. This and the Demos gives you around 220 more points to play with, which could grab you a lot of stuff. If you do swap them out, I'd grab one of these:

Another vet squad. Nice and reliable.

A Vendetta if you see a lot of fliers (although by the look of the list that's not a concern)

An infantry platoon to babysit a home objective with Lascannons

Some Stormies for melta DS/outflank.

All that sounds good, I'll probably go with the platoon or vendetta. Without Creed I would probably drop the CCS entirely as well unless I put in the platoon. I'd be tempted to put in yet another Leman Russ as well, an Vanquisher for some armor killing power before all the melta goodness arrives maybe.

So... reporting back on my test of the list. I made a small modification in instead of hellhounds I took banewolves. I assumed since I'd be outflanking I'd be able to get in quickly and roast people without worrying about having to travel like the banewolfs normal weakness is. With the demo charges lost I used the 120 extra points on marbo and upgrading a vet squad to demolitions.

The plan worked AMAZINGLY well! In the beginning I was getting rocked by his dev squad/master of the forge/razorback lascannons because I had scarcity of targets for him.. deployed very offensivly and he seized the initiative. Then both Al`rahems entire platoon, the banewolves and Marbo came in right at turn 2 and with the help of astropath I rolled a 5 for both choosing where to come in. My buddy plays iron hands marines, I overloaded his flank where he had sat his master of the forge, devastator squad, a dreadnaught and a tac squad in a razorback in the back to hold an objective. Meltas absolutely destroyed all the armor and one banewolf took out the -entire- dev squad, the other one took out the entire razorback squad after I popped it. Mass multilaser/lasgun shots brought down the master of the forge.

I'm sure this wouldn't work every time but I ended up tabling him and it was really quite a bit of fun to be right in someones face instead of worrying about how to get my tanks across the board. The Astropath really makes all the difference. Creed was expensive but without him those banewolves wouldn't have done much... they survived the entire rest of the game and kept mopping up tac squads.

Congrats on the win. Playing aggressively with Mech Guard is certainly something different, and if you enjoyed it, then it worked.

Mass reserves is always an interesting tactic, either you'll get half your army in the enemy DZ straight away, or you'll end up waiting for them to come in one at a time. I swear, most of the time I use Al'Rahem he ends up coming in on entirely the wrong side, but if you bring and astropath and get lucky with outflanking you can pull off some great stuff.

Have you considered adding Harker to a vet squad at all? With 3x plasma, a HB team and Harker, in a chimera, you get: 9 HB shots, 3 Multilaser shots, and 6 plasma shots at short range. Pretty fearsome to most light-medium infantry units. I think that infiltrating this into cover could give you very neat firebase early on. You'd need to protect it, but I can see it paying off.

Would Inquisition but a good addition to a mechvet list or a mechair list? If so would you take henchmen or leave them at home?

 GreenWarMachine wrote:
Would Inquisition but a good addition to a mechvet list or a mechair list? If so would you take henchmen or leave them at home?

Unless you're bringing Henchmen or a blob, they're probably not worth it. They can't ride in a transports with the IG units, so their buffs would be wasted there.

What they can add is:

Cheap Prescience if you are using a blob with the mech-vets.

Some pretty shooty henchmen in Chimeras. Setups like 8 psykers and 1 acolyte in a Chimera gives you a S10 AP1 blast. 3 plasma acolytes and a monkey or two is pretty good.

Crusaders and DCA in a Land Raider give you some decent counter-assault units.

But on the whole, they add far more to foot-guard than mech. You're probabaly better off staying inside the codex or looking at SM for mech guard allies.

Thanks for the advice :-)