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Hey everyone,

So I will be attending a 1850pt, anything goes* tournament, in a couple of weeks, but list submission is in a few days, so I want to make sure I've not missed anything or if anyone has input on something I may have overlooked.

A few things to note about the tournament, Purge the alien is either primary or secondary in every mission, 2 scouring missions, 1 big guns, 1 crusade and a modified relic mission (hammer and anvil 3 relics across the centre of the table).

My list:

Tau Primary:
Farsight (Warlord) - 165
Shadowsun - 2 Shield Drones - 175
Enclave:
Battlesuit - 2 Fusion Blasters, Target Lock, 2 Gun Drones
Battlesuit - 2 Fusion Blasters, Target Lock, 2 Gun Drones
Battlesuit - 2 Plasma Rifles, Target Lock, 2 Gun Drones
Battlesuit - 2 Plasma Rifles, Target Lock, 2 Gun Drones
Battlesuit - 2 Missile Pods, Target Lock, 2 Gun Drones
Battlesuit - 1 Cyclic Ion Blaster, Missile Pod, Target Lock, 2 Gun Drones
Battlesuit - C&C Node, PEN Chip, Multi-spec Suit, Gauntlet, Iridium Armour, Neuroweb Jammer, Drone Controller, Vectored Thrusters, 2 Gun Drones - 119

The Bomb - ignore cover, twin linked, tank/monster hunter, 12 gun drones, lots of shots, does the bulk work of the list.

10 Kroot - 1 Hound - 65
10 Kroot - 1 Hound - 65
10 Kroot - 1 Hound - 65

Scoring and outflanking/bubble wrapping if needed.

7 Pathfinders - 77

Scoring in the scouring mission (2 of those, 1 primary, 1 secondary) and lots of markerlight support.

Skyray - Blacksun Filter (SMS) - 116
Skyray - Blacksun Filter (SMS) - 116

SMS and Marker light support for the army, as well as missile to bring down MCs etc.

Space Marine Allies:

Chapter Tactics: Red Scorpions

Sevrin Loth - 205

FW unit - basically he gets to pick his powers from a single table, so thats Gate and 2 others... Fearless and can exchange a Warp Charge for a 2+ Inv save. adds sooo much to the Bomb with a guaranteed chance of gate.

5 Scouts - Storm - heavy flamer - 100

Given these a Landspeeder storm for some mobility, so at least 1 unit can get about the table, heavy flamer to scorch some gribbly unit if required.

Inquisitor Detachment:

Xenos Inquisitor - 3 Servo Skulls - 34

Servo Skull tax which really screws with one of the hard counters to the Farsight Bomb and thats Grav Gun marine bikers and blackknight dark angel armies... both of which won't be in range turn1 thanks to the Skulls... plus things like KrootPathfinders/Scouts etc cannot infiltrate into annoying positions.

1848pts

Have I missed anything, improve anything, what do you think?

* It's also been ruled that Inquisitors cannot join unit that contain anything they cannot ally with, so for me, the Inquisitor cannot join the Farsight Bomb


Updated List Below: 28/1/14

I like it; and as long as FW is allowed I always advocate for Loth. Besides guaranteed gate, he's just a bad man.

I would however just take a 4th Kroot unit instead of the pathfinders. They're scoring in ALL missions and the bomb doesn't need markerlight support.

Also, I've played the bomb all ways you can play it, and I've migrated to the camp of taking a Buffmander instead of Shadowsun. You can get 16 drones, 6 of which I may shield to mitigate against that first Ion Accelerator. The rest are gun drones. Then you just make the IA tide (or other AP2/3 blast) the #1 target priority.

The buffmander is much more resilient from getting barraged out and you won't feel like you're wasting Iridium on a 2W model.

Shadowsun vs Buffmander depends on how much Ap4+ ignores cover and barrage there is in your meta.

Ap4+ ignores cover reduces the benefits of Shadowsun
Barrage makes the buffmander so much more survivable than the support suit.

Other than that I agree Kroot or even Fire warriors would be better than pathfinders. Also I would drop the cyclic ion blaster suit for another plasma suit. I'm concerned by the lack of Broadsides but otherwise it looks pretty much perfect.

Loth is only 175 by the way !

Cheers for the input guys!

So you don't think Shadowsun is worth it, well the UK tournament meta is about ignore cover, with Tau and Eldar most prevalent, so it makes sense to do what you suggest and replace Shadowsun with a BuffCommander, so with that done and with the pts saved by Sevrin Loth (lol FW really know how to make balanced rules lol).

Hmm instead of dropping the Pathfinders for more Kroot, I think a Skyray would add more to the list, more SMS, more Skyfire and still keeps the Marker Light count up...

Here is what I'm thinking:

Warlord Farsight - 165
Commander - C&C Node, PEN Chip, Multi-Spec, Iridium Armour, Drone Controller, Vectored Thrusters, 2 Shield Drones - 197
7 Bodyguards:
2x Fusion Blasters, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Fusion Blasters, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Plasma Rilfes, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Plasma Rilfes, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Plasma Rifles/Fusion Blasters/Missile Pods???, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91 - What do you guys recommend? I'm leaning towards Plasma?
2x Missile Pods, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
1 Missile Pod, 1 Cyclic Ion Blaster, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91

10 Kroot 1 hound - 65
10 Kroot 1 hound - 65
10 Kroot 1 hound - 65

Skyray - Blacksun filter, sms - 116
Skyray - Blacksun filter, sms - 116
Skyray - sms - 115

SM Allies:

Sevrin Loth - 175

5 Scouts in Landspeeder Storm - 100

Inquisition detachment

Xenos Inquisitor - 3 Servo Skulls - 34

1850pts

So with 1 suit I'm not sure what to arm it with.. Fusion means better anti-av13+ and excellent AP, Missile Pods decent rate of fire, good AP and high strength, Plasma better AP, decent strength and good rate of fire up close... not sure which would be most useful. Looking at the counters to this list, Serpent Spam and AV13 Necrons are just that... so I'm feeling Fusions and Missile Pods are the way to go... but then I think Plasma will go through MEQs, TEQs and MC's (with Monster Hunter) hmm

I think I will go Plasma unless someone else can convince me otherwise...

1) As I said, I like the Buffmander over Shadowsun, but I also mentioned you need more than 2 shield drones. People WILL have multiple Ion Accelerators. You have to be able to eat 1 of those blasts. If they bring 2, then position cleverly. But you absolutely have to be able to eat one to the face. I go 10/6 in favor of gun drones.

2) For the bodyguards, I go 10 plasma/4 fusion. If you want to throw in some Missile Pods, go ahead. But literally, 2. You don't want your plasma saturation to get too low; they're the heart of the unit's kill power. Also, Cyclic Ion Blaster? C'mon, this isn't a friendly game at the local shop with some baby seals. Get that outta there.

3) I can stomach the extra Skyray, tho I think you're still overestimating this list's need for markerlights. It really doesn't need any. But Skyrays are still awesome and they DO give you AA which is a significant weakness of the bomb. However, I hope you're practicing because this list requires expert positioning to play well in tournament environs. One wrong move and you are absolutely toast. Having a lack of scoring really compounds your narrow margin of error.

Good luck! I think it's strong with Loth. Definitely better than the much-touted O'Vesastar (which I've also played competitively).

Good luck! I think it's strong with Loth. Definitely better than the much-touted O'Vesastar (which I've also played competitively).

Agreed but for me O'Vesastar is meta dependant. You run into triple Dreadknight or double/triple Wraithknight and your star is toast as its so much easier to hurt in combat. That's why I like the Farsight bomb its counters are generally much less competitive so aren't seen as much. Though I'd lithe so see how triple LotD does against it.

i like it though I would try to squeeze in 1 more troop choice, I'm not sure how much mileage you will get out of the inquisitor vs say another kroot or scout squad.

The Shrike wrote:1) As I said, I like the Buffmander over Shadowsun, but I also mentioned you need more than 2 shield drones. People WILL have multiple Ion Accelerators. You have to be able to eat 1 of those blasts. If they bring 2, then position cleverly. But you absolutely have to be able to eat one to the face. I go 10/6 in favor of gun drones.

It's why I will be taking Telekine Dome as my second psychic power, 5+ Inv save on the unit, almost as good as a 4+ but with the added gun drone fire power, to be honest, I might go all gun drones (16) for 32 str5 and 5 shots... pinning of course all with a 5+ inv save, could be fun!

2) For the bodyguards, I go 10 plasma/4 fusion. If you want to throw in some Missile Pods, go ahead. But literally, 2. You don't want your plasma saturation to get too low; they're the heart of the unit's kill power. Also, Cyclic Ion Blaster? C'mon, this isn't a friendly game at the local shop with some baby seals. Get that outta there.

I do love plasma, but there comes a point where range could become an issue, even with gate, if my opponent just spreads out, I cannot get into range of everything, so the Missile Pods add that range and a chance of glancing things like Anni Barges to death with Tank Hunter support. Cyclic Ion Blaster is the same points as a Missile Pod, but has 3 shots, so it's an easy pick for me.

3) I can stomach the extra Skyray, tho I think you're still overestimating this list's need for markerlights. It really doesn't need any. But Skyrays are still awesome and they DO give you AA which is a significant weakness of the bomb. However, I hope you're practicing because this list requires expert positioning to play well in tournament environs. One wrong move and you are absolutely toast. Having a lack of scoring really compounds your narrow margin of error.

I also like the SMS on the Skyrays, all 3 can gang up on MSU units or units that rely on cover to stay alive etc

No practice games and list submission is tomorrow night lol! gonna practice next week with the list I submit once I get a chance!

Good luck! I think it's strong with Loth. Definitely better than the much-touted O'Vesastar (which I've also played competitively).

Cheers, thanks for the advice so far!

FlingitNow wrote:

Good luck! I think it's strong with Loth. Definitely better than the much-touted O'Vesastar (which I've also played competitively).

Agreed but for me O'Vesastar is meta dependant. You run into triple Dreadknight or double/triple Wraithknight and your star is toast as its so much easier to hurt in combat. That's why I like the Farsight bomb its counters are generally much less competitive so aren't seen as much. Though I'd lithe so see how triple LotD does against it.

LotD? Legion of the Damned? What can they/it do?

Jpr wrote:i like it though I would try to squeeze in 1 more troop choice, I'm not sure how much mileage you will get out of the inquisitor vs say another kroot or scout squad.

Good point, in a 5 game tournament I'm bound to face a White Scar Grav Gun army or a Ravenwing DA army at some point so the for 34pts the Inquisitor is an easy pick for me at least. But I see your point that the additional Scout squad would at a lot to the list... hmmm choices choices!

Embolden40k wrote:
Cheers for the input guys!

So you don't think Shadowsun is worth it, well the UK tournament meta is about ignore cover, with Tau and Eldar most prevalent, so it makes sense to do what you suggest and replace Shadowsun with a BuffCommander, so with that done and with the pts saved by Sevrin Loth (lol FW really know how to make balanced rules lol).

Hmm instead of dropping the Pathfinders for more Kroot, I think a Skyray would add more to the list, more SMS, more Skyfire and still keeps the Marker Light count up...

Here is what I'm thinking:

Warlord Farsight - 165
Commander - C&C Node, PEN Chip, Multi-Spec, Iridium Armour, Drone Controller, Vectored Thrusters, 2 Shield Drones - 197
7 Bodyguards:
2x Fusion Blasters, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Fusion Blasters, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Plasma Rilfes, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Plasma Rilfes, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Plasma Rifles/Fusion Blasters/Missile Pods???, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91 - What do you guys recommend? I'm leaning towards Plasma?
2x Missile Pods, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
1 Missile Pod, 1 Cyclic Ion Blaster, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91

10 Kroot 1 hound - 65
10 Kroot 1 hound - 65
10 Kroot 1 hound - 65

Skyray - Blacksun filter, sms - 116
Skyray - Blacksun filter, sms - 116
Skyray - sms - 115

SM Allies:

Sevrin Loth - 175

5 Scouts in Landspeeder Storm - 100

Inquisition detachment

Xenos Inquisitor - 3 Servo Skulls - 34

1850pts

So with 1 suit I'm not sure what to arm it with.. Fusion means better anti-av13+ and excellent AP, Missile Pods decent rate of fire, good AP and high strength, Plasma better AP, decent strength and good rate of fire up close... not sure which would be most useful. Looking at the counters to this list, Serpent Spam and AV13 Necrons are just that... so I'm feeling Fusions and Missile Pods are the way to go... but then I think Plasma will go through MEQs, TEQs and MC's (with Monster Hunter) hmm

I think I will go Plasma unless someone else can convince me otherwise...

More fusion instead of missiles. If you really want missiles run a squad of crisis suits with missile pods. I ran a list similar to this (and most opponents don't want to face it again xD), but every suit in the ball had fusion guns. It drops supers in one volley, and it even killed two wraithknights at once (with a few markers to give +bs). If you skimp on fusion, you WILL have problems with wraithknights, as the plasma only wounds on a 6 and missiles grant them armor saves.

Also, Shadowsun is just bonkers in this if you decide to run her. 2+ cover sitting in area terrain makes all those drones looks like terminators. Even if they have a bit of ignore cover, not everything they have will ignore cover. Telekinetic Dome will help against ignore cover low AP rounds. You do NOT need to drop her for a buff commander because all the signature systems are available on a bs3 bodyguard. Sure, the gun drones wont hit all the time, but the fusion/plasma in the ball is doing the heavy lifting anyways.

You have the benefit of being able to remove markerlights so that opposing Tau wont get ignore cover (except from their buffmander, which you can just melt). The Tactical Marines from red scorpions are just nuts with their FNP (5+) and are amazingly hard to dislodge, so you can use them as back field objective holders. You shouldn't need a 3rd skyray, but it wont hurt to take it if you're really worried about enemy fliers (of which only the helldrake is the scary one, everything else is ignoreable with a 2+ cover). Also, a 2+ cover makes grav guns cry, as they will wound on 4's (majority save because of drones) and then you will save 5/6th of them easily. A 2+ cover is absolutely needed for this, as the survivability is just bad without it.

LotD have a 3++ so ignore your Ap. They are relentless and deep strike in with a Plasma Cannon, Plasmagun and combigrav all of which ignore cover. 3 units have a decent chance of removing the vast majority of a Farsun bomb in a turn. Particularly if supported by triple TFC which have already sniped out your support suit as you've not taken the buffmander.

I assume it is this type of list that has convinced The Shrike to take the buffmander over Shadowsun.

 FlingitNow wrote:
LotD have a 3++ so ignore your Ap. They are relentless and deep strike in with a Plasma Cannon, Plasmagun and combigrav all of which ignore cover. 3 units have a decent chance of removing the vast majority of a Farsun bomb in a turn. Particularly if supported by triple TFC which have already sniped out your support suit as you've not taken the buffmander.

I assume it is this type of list that has convinced The Shrike to take the buffmander over Shadowsun.

Sure, against that list the buffcommander is far better. Unfortunately (or fortunately) I have never seen such a list before, and we have a good 20+ regulars in my area. I think a list similar to that one would be an outlier for sure. Against barrage the ability to LoS is amazing, but the only weapons that are fielded with barrage are generally TFC's, and their ignore cover shot is str4 (1/2 wounds, 2/3 saves).

3 TFCs is pretty common amongst marines as is 2-3 Manticores for IG. As I said it all depends on how much ignores cover and barrage is in your meta. For instance 20 Kroot have a decent chance of sniping out your support suit. It is something to consider but is meta dependent.

TFCs are indeed what changed my heart on Shadowsun. The combination of having my buff suit sniped out by sheer volume of wounds (enough to routinely fail LOS) and the sheer volume of Tau and Eldar at events who ignore my cover anyway, I just find the Buffmander is better.

If 3 TFCs put 30 wounds on you in a round of shooting you got off easy. The most important model in your army needs more than 2W. If you can use JSJ to spread out sufficiently, then great. But chances are often excellent that you'll need every inch to get further away from dangerous assault threats. Why? Because you gated in within 12" to rapid fire your plasma.

The good news is, not THAT many people take 3. People still like their ravens and grav centurions. Other than preferring the buffmander to shadowsun, I still think this list is super strong with Loth. Even against fortuned Jetseer, you've got a shot.

Yeah definitely going down the rout of the buff commander over buff suit, Shadowsun seems awesome, but I've been thinking about how much stuff ignores cover and/or snipes and it's a hell of a lot of stuff at the top of the meta.

So my list I'm about to submit:

Tau Primary:

HQ1: (Warlord) Farsight = [165]
HQ2: Commander Command and Control Node Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suit Puretide Engram Neurochip Drone Controller Vectored Retro Thrusters Iridium Battlesuit 2 Gun Drones = [197]
HQ1a: Farsight Enclave Bodyguard Team: [637]
Battlesuit Plasma Rifle Plasma Rifle Target Lock 2 Gun Drones = [91]
Battlesuit Plasma Rifle Plasma Rifle Target Lock 2 Gun Drones = [91]
Battlesuit Plasma Rifle Plasma Rifle Target Lock 2 Gun Drones = [91]
Battlesuit Fusion Blaster Fusion Blaster Target Lock 2 Gun Drones = [91]
Battlesuit Fusion Blaster Fusion Blaster Target Lock 2 Gun Drones = [91]
Battlesuit Missile Pod Missile Pod Target Lock 2 Gun Drones = [91]
Battlesuit Missile Pod Cyclic Ion Blaster Target Lock 2 Gun Drones = [91]
Troop1: 10 Kroot 1 Kroot Hound = [65]
Troop2: 10 Kroot 1 Kroot Hound = [65]
Troop3: 10 Kroot 1 Kroot Hound = [65]
Heavy1: Skyray Blacksun filter Smart Missile Systems = [116]
Heavy2: Skyray Blacksun filter Smart Missile Systems = [116]
Heavy3: Skyray Smart Missile Systems = [115]

Space Marines Allies:

Chapter Tactics: Red Scorpions

HQ1: Sevrin Loth = [175]
Troop1: 5 Scouts Boltguns replaced by close combat weapons = [55] (Transport1)
Transport1: Landspeeder Storm Heavy Flamer = [45]

Inquisitorial Detachment:

HQ1: Ordo Xenos Inquisitor 3 Servo Skulls = 34

[Total = 1850]

After swapping out Shadowsun for a buff commander the extra suit is now armed with Plasma, thanks to Shrike and his persistent advice to give most of the suits Plasma, but I'm still keeping the Missile Pods and Cyclic Ion Blaster (3 shot Missile Pod :p) I still want the extra range if my opponent spreads out and the extra strength to put more wounds on things like Daemon Princes.

Sevrin Loth's power I'm thinking Telekentic Dome (5+ Inv save), Gate (jump 24") and Mechanican (Haywire shot or makes unit re-roll 6 to hit and wound) or Crush (2d6 hits at ap d6) depending on opponents list.

So guys, what do you think? Any last minute improvements?

Nope, it's strong. Now, practice practice practice. If you make one wrong move with the bomb it's game over. It's a lot of points but you can't just shove it down people's throats. You have to eat at the periphery, protect and deny objectives with your firelanes, and use LOS to protect you from the worst of the worst.

This is not a plug and play army. It's one of the harder Deathstars to become an expert with. With practice and guaranteed gate though, I think it's viable at the top.

 The Shrike wrote:
Nope, it's strong. Now, practice practice practice. If you make one wrong move with the bomb it's game over. It's a lot of points but you can't just shove it down people's throats. You have to eat at the periphery, protect and deny objectives with your firelanes, and use LOS to protect you from the worst of the worst.

This is not a plug and play army. It's one of the harder Deathstars to become an expert with. With practice and guaranteed gate though, I think it's viable at the top.

Cheers for the advice and input!

So, the tournament came and went last weekend and I ended up a respectable 19th/120!

Brief run through of the games:

Game1 vs 45 Khorne Hound Daemons: At first I was like, get in easy game... I was given turn1, so set up, failed gate, loth was then snipped out by the Warp Table turn1 and things went down hill... still managed to scrap to a 12-8 loss (drew on primary, lost narrowly on secondary and tertiary objectives.

Game2 vs 3 Riptides, 3Broadsides + 4 missile drones, Shadow Weaver, Swooping hawks, Buff Commander and Farseer: Well if ever a list designed to beat mine... well I gave it a shot, gate went off turn1! tried to take out 2 Riptides, but 9 5+ saves and 20 odd 2+ saves later... only a scratch caused on one Riptide.. the bomb was then deleted over the course of 2 turns... then it was mop up time for my opponent, if the game ends turn5 it's a 14-6 loss, but it goes another turn... so I lose 17-3.. was happy just to get points out the game...

Game3 vs MC Nids (old dex): I gave my opponent turn1, he flew off the table, Mawlocks went under ground, I deleted 2 units of Termagaunts, turn2 everything shows up and does some decent damage to Skyrays and the Bomb, 2 Hive Tyrants and a Mawlock die turn2, turn3 Trygons die, turn4, doom + gaunts, turn5, rest of army bar a Tervigon on 2 wound... I lost most of my troops though... leaving me on 2 objectives to 1 and no tabling... 15-5 win!

Game4 vs Biker/Mech marines: my opponent goes first in night fight as does no damage, I gate over and take out Thunderfire and Bike squad, Chapter Master who some how survived on 2 wounds... hits with his Ord strike and takes out loth, the bomb then deletes a squad or 2 per turn, I finish up on 2 objectives to 0, but have killed most of my opponents army for a 17-3 win!

Game5 vs MC Nids (old dex) Swarmlord and Hive tyrant on foot this time, with Hive Guard, Mawlocks and Tervigons... I seize on my opponent who has deployed super aggressive.. I take out the death star turn1, most of the rest turn2, he gets no reserves turn2 (I mean he has like 5 units in reserve and none turn up...) so he calls it quits... 20-0 win! After a length chat about how we would both play the game, he heads off to get an earlier train home, I don't blame him.

So I finished a respectable 19th out of 120. Room for improvement on the list:

Farsight - did okay... took a challenge to the face from a Khorne Herald who rolled instant kill and Farsight failed the 1 4+ save required... no scatter deep strike is essential to the bomb!
Commander - awesome buffs throughout the tournament! only died in one game (Tau game2, was almost tabled so meh..), I think he could be more useful than Farsight tanking out front! so FnP and 4+ inv are needed on him!
Bomb - was great, bar the Cyclic Ion Blaster... was greedy for the extra shot, when AP plasma does the damage... dropped for another Plasma, still keeping 2x1 Missile Pod for range, should have listened to Shrike! (Sorry dude)
Loth - hmm... I keep failing gate on him, even in my practice games and during the tournament a few times, only once did it really matter and that was game1 turn1!!... and not all upcoming tournaments allow FW, so gonna drop the crutch and go for Tigurius! eeek!

Kroot - outflanking Kroot were crap, all tournament... walking on were fine, outflanking I'm not sure if I wasn't using them/protecting them well enough, but they just got killed every game... in the end (game 4-5) I was only out flanking 1 unit and walking the rest on... I think this could be the way to go, saving pts on hounds.
Scouts - The Storm was okay, I guess, game4 that really helped the army out, was cowering behind a wall with 2x10 kroot, 1x10 kroot died outflanking.. so scouts turbo boosted down flank turn4, turn5 killed a scout unit holding that objective and claimed that objective. Still not sure if Storm worth it...

Skyrays - not sure on them... I think 2 will be enough for sure, 3 overkill/not effective enough, did well against the Nids, average against Marines, rubbish vs Riptide/Broadside Tau and did okay against the Daemons... I think 2 is the max I needed.

Inquisitor - didn't really need him in the end... didn't die all tournament, even when nearly tabled lol! But the 34pt tax probably isn't worth it... I was expecting to face lots of white scar bike armies, but I think a lot of people were expecting Servo Skulls so didn't bother... so I think I will drop him and hope the meta protects

So changes...

Dropping Loth, Skyray, Storm, Inquisitor and 2 hounds from the kroot squads frees up a 380pts... enough for a Tigurius, FnP on the Buff Commander and a Storm Raven! Problem is, I want the 4+ inv save on Buff Commander... so he can tank against all armies... the problem is there a way to find those pts?

Bravo, not a bad showing at all for a first time out with a bomb. Like I said, takes finesse and experience.

2 drones and a blacksun filter will do it....but how many drones would that leave you with? Remember, the shield drones have a 4++ as well, so serve a similar function to the buffmander. Do you really want him eating Ion accelerators and lascannons all day? He's the most important model in your army.

I'm on board with the other changes. A stormraven adds a lot. You can just carry the couts who lost their ride inside its belly. They're invulnerable as long as you protect the raven. And you can just kick them out the back door late game.

Cheers! I was happy with that result, had only played about 4 practice games as well. Feel more prepared for the next event in 3 weeks.

Shield Drones are a good shout, I seem to remember you suggested them earlier LOL, should have just followed your advise in the first place

I have 16 drones in the squad to play around with, if I go Shield Drones I could trade 4 Gun Drones for 4 Shield Drones to give the squad a bit more resilience in place of the Shield Generator, that could work nicely!

The Storm Raven adds something different to the list, Scouts will ride along in every other mission than Purge, which makes it a great transport option, with speed and pretty handy fire power with 4 Str8 AP2 Missiles, TL Multimelta and an TL Assault Cannon or TL Lascannon (not sure which yet). Yes, the Scouts can deep strike out as well IIRC if I don't want to get into hover mode, the Raven really does add another dimension to the list, with Tig re-rolling reserves as well! It should come on turn2 if required or hopefully stay off if required.

Most people seem to run LC/MM on the Raven for pure AA duties but I'm not a math guy so you'd have to have someone else run the numbers as to whether AC > LC or vice versa.

Yes you can DS out; gotta take a dangerous terrain test though.

As for the drones, if I was at 14, as I believe you will be after reductions, I'd go 8 gun, 6 shield. With the buffmander's drone controller, those 8 gun drones are now BS5 (TL!) so it makes up a bit for losing firepower on the number of actual gun drones.

Bravo. I believe I will run your new list in my next game. Great job on your placing!

I'm a maths guy and statistically the Assault Cannon is superior to the Lascannon against Vehicles. The ONLY reason to take a Lascannon over an assault cannon is range. Which isn't much of a reason on a flyer, though PotMS on the turret can make a difference as you can engage a more distant 2nd target. Personally I tend to use the MM on PotMS because it has the best chance of killing something on its own. But that is play style. Hope this helps.

The Shrike wrote:Most people seem to run LC/MM on the Raven for pure AA duties but I'm not a math guy so you'd have to have someone else run the numbers as to whether AC > LC or vice versa.

Yes you can DS out; gotta take a dangerous terrain test though.

As for the drones, if I was at 14, as I believe you will be after reductions, I'd go 8 gun, 6 shield. With the buffmander's drone controller, those 8 gun drones are now BS5 (TL!) so it makes up a bit for losing firepower on the number of actual gun drones.

I will go for Assault Cannon, gives a bit of horde control and Multi Melta seems the obvious choice as secondary weapon.

Hmm choices choices haha, go 14 drones, I don't think I will go 6 shield drones, just seems too many to me (but then again you've been right on everything else...) I was thinking with a Shield Gen on Commander and a couple thinking 2 or 3 Shield Drones should be enough...

Or I could drop the Shield Gen on the commander and take an additional 2 or 3 Shield Drones? - but would that be worth it?

I'm facing a nasty list on tuesday evening (UK time), so will post up a report of that. It's a list that finished 5th at the same tournament, basically it's Tigurius, Bike Chapter Master with Shield Eternal, Power Fist and is there to tank the hits, Buff Commander with inv save and fnp, TL, Ignore Cover and PEN Chip, again to tank, then 5 Dev Centurions, Riptide with Ion Accelerator, 3xBroadsides High Yeilds and missile drones then 10 kroot and 3x5 Bikes with Grav Guns. Lots of low AP shots.. so should be a good test either way.

Luckily Dangerous Terrain tests are not that bad now, so DS Scouts out the back of the Raven shouldn't be that much of a risk and could always go into hover mode.

Oscamus wrote:Bravo. I believe I will run your new list in my next game. Great job on your placing!

Cheers

Its a good list! Just trying to finalise the small details, like Shield Drones vs Gun Drones or drop Shield Generator on the Commander for more Drones :p

Let us know how you get on!

FlingitNow wrote:I'm a maths guy and statistically the Assault Cannon is superior to the Lascannon against Vehicles. The ONLY reason to take a Lascannon over an assault cannon is range. Which isn't much of a reason on a flyer, though PotMS on the turret can make a difference as you can engage a more distant 2nd target. Personally I tend to use the MM on PotMS because it has the best chance of killing something on its own. But that is play style. Hope this helps.

Yeah I'm thinking the same, Assault Cannon over Lascannon it is and Multi Melta seems the obvious choice as secondary weapon.

Cheers for the input guys, much appreciated

Ass Can vs Lascan

AV10 1.778 HPs vs 0.889
AV11 1.185 HPs vs 0.74
AV12 0.592 HPs vs 0.592
AV13 0.592 HPs vs 0.444
AV14 0.395 HPs vs 0.296
AV15 0.198 HPs vs 0.148

They are equal against AV12 against any other AV value the Assault Cannon is superior. It is also superior vs infantry and MCs due to number of shots. For damage out put it really is a no Grainger between the two.

Lots of exaltation for FlingitNow and the maths! Haha, thanks man.

Wow, that list your facing is a tough nut. I would certainly play to the mission and eliminate his scoring as quickly as possible. Are you playing book missions or TO design? This is important info.

Give us some details about the game and we can help you stratagize!

FlingitNow wrote:Ass Can vs Lascan

AV10 1.778 HPs vs 0.889
AV11 1.185 HPs vs 0.74
AV12 0.592 HPs vs 0.592
AV13 0.592 HPs vs 0.444
AV14 0.395 HPs vs 0.296
AV15 0.198 HPs vs 0.148

They are equal against AV12 against any other AV value the Assault Cannon is superior. It is also superior vs infantry and MCs due to number of shots. For damage out put it really is a no Grainger between the two.

Wow thats awesome mathhammer! Thanks!

To be cheeky... what damage would each do to current meta MCs, IE Daemon Princes, Wraithknights and Riptides :p

The Shrike wrote:Lots of exaltation for FlingitNow and the maths! Haha, thanks man.

Wow, that list your facing is a tough nut. I would certainly play to the mission and eliminate his scoring as quickly as possible. Are you playing book missions or TO design? This is important info.

Give us some details about the game and we can help you stratagize!

Mission will be randomly rolled before the game. (Same as the tournament)

My opponent is someone who I've played a few times and last time out (Hammer and Anvil deployment) he deployed out of rapid fire range of the plasma, with the Riptide behind, Broadsides a new unit (replacing his Storm Raven), so I guess those will start near his Centurion Bomb (which is armed 2 Grav Guns, 3 Lascannons, 5 Missile Launches), so out ranging him is a no no, tactics? I'm not sure could go after his Death Star or try to hide my death star for a turn or 2 and wait for his reserves and take them out as they arrive, his Death Star is fairly slow, so will struggle to get into range of objectives if I spread mine out? But would mean it had free rain... hmm what do you guys think?

His deathstar isn't optimized but the list is still strong. I would still advise playin cagey and eliminating his scoring. The bomb is great for getting first blood. Ensure you get it; them play defense using gate to out manouver him. It sounds counter intuitive but your best move after getting FB might be to find a nice big hunk of LOS blocking terrain and make him come to you to rest you from it.

He's got you on firepower quite honestly. BUT, the raven is great at eliminating troops (and decent against riptides as well) and your skyrays excel at eliminating backfield troops too.

I'm rambling; few plans survive contact with the enemy. But generally speaking; play this one for the secondaries from the word go.

So game time tonight!

Just to post my updated list in full:

Sticking with the 14 Drones idea, switching to a 4 Shield/10 Gun Drones mix and keeping the idea of a Shield Generator on the Buff Commander to make room for this I'm dropping a hound, which then gives pts for Neuroweb System Jammer and a second Blacksun Filter.

Warlord Farsight - 165
Commander - Command & Control Node, Purtide Chip, Multi-Spec Suit, Iridium Armour, Drone Controller, Vectored Thrusters, Shield Generator, Stimulant Injector, Neuroweb System Jammer, 2 Shield Drones - 215
7 Bodyguards:
2x Fusion Blasters, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Fusion Blasters, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Plasma Rilfes, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Plasma Rilfes, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Plasma Rifles, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Plasma Rifles, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91
2x Missile Pods, Target lock, 2 Gun Drones - 91

10 Kroot - 60
10 Kroot - 60
10 Kroot - 60

Skyray - Blacksun filter, sms - 116
Skyray - Blacksun filter, sms - 116

Space Marine Allies:

Tigurius - 165

5 Scouts - Close Combat Weapons

Storm Raven - Multmelta, Assault Cannon - 200

Total: 1849

Good luck! Be cagey!