The Lost Primarchs?

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**Retrogamer0001**

Do you guys ever think that GW will eventually expand on the two lost Primarchs? I'm about halfway through the Heresy and am somewhat familiar with most of the backstory of the WH40K universe, but I would personally love to see at least one of these guys discovered somewhere to lead the Imperium into battle. Any chance of it happening?

**j31c3n**

In short, no.

Those primarchs and legions are left deliberately unknown so that players can come up with their own stories about them.

**McNinja**

As cool as it would be, I'd wager no. GW is too lazy to move the plot forward, and so neither the lost legions nor their primarchs will be discovered.

**Retrogamer0001**

j31c3n wrote:
In short, no.

Those primarchs and legions are left deliberately unknown so that players can come up with their own stories about them.

Though I understand that, and to some degree it makes sense, I think a lot of players would love to see one of them discovered and brought into the main storyline.

**Musselman**

Perhaps they could release details about what they did. If there was a way to divulge what happened without giving too much detail on who they were, then people could still use them to create DIY chapters/war bands.

But again it has been hyped to the point that no explanation would be good enough. So probably no.

**Retrogamer0001**

Musselman wrote:
Perhaps they could release details about what they did. If there was a way to divulge what happened without giving too much detail on who they were, then people could still use them to create DIY chapters/war bands.

But again it has been hyped to the point that no explanation would be good enough. So probably no.

Maybe Dan Abnett could cook something up? Actually, I just finished Legion and hated it, so maybe he couldn't...

**Lagfest**

I could see GW doing something with them, if interest in SM started to wane badly. They leave them "lost' atm so people can make up their own chapters.

**Omegus**

They were sanctioned, so it seems like they be dead.

**The Grumpy Eldar**

I thought there were little nudges in the HH books. And some rumors that the Space Wolves had something to do with one of them(This one is just a rumor I thought). Not so sure as of why. As for the other. Empy seemed to be rather sad as of what happened to him but they wont tell what became of him in the books, but it had nothing to do with betrayal. But one thing is sure, they're both dead as can be.

Plus they get mentioned by other primarchs from time to time.

**j31c3n**

I know, I know... 1d4chan. But still:

1d4chan wrote:...Or there may simply be no missing Legions. According to a source who allegedly worked for Games Workshop for five years (seen here), Rick Priestley (who helped write the first Rogue Trader) read about the Roman notion of Damnatio Memoriae, and simply threw in the idea of two "missing" Space Marine Legions as a "nod" to Imperial Rome (specifically, the three Roman legions whose numbers were never used after they were wiped out in the disastrous Battle of the Teutoburg Forest. So, nothing significant can ever be revealed about them, because they never really existed in the first place. Except they totally existed in the current canon, even if they started as a joke. Also, the real reason that they were kept around between Rogue Trader and recent revelations was so that people could make up their own pair of Primarchs for model painting and personal fanon (although this has lost its effect as doing so is a step in sending them down the path of the Mary Sue)...

**Lagfest**

Uhgghh Why do they take the Mary Sue route?

**cincydooley**

j31c3n wrote:
I know, I know... 1d4chan. But still:

1d4chan wrote:...Or there may simply be no missing Legions. According to a source who allegedly worked for Games Workshop for five years (seen here), Rick Priestley (who helped write the first Rogue Trader) read about the Roman notion of Damnatio Memoriae, and simply threw in the idea of two "missing" Space Marine Legions as a "nod" to Imperial Rome (specifically, the three Roman legions whose numbers were never used after they were wiped out in the disastrous Battle of the Teutoburg Forest. So, nothing significant can ever be revealed about them, because they never really existed in the first place. Except they totally existed in the current canon, even if they started as a joke. Also, the real reason that they were kept around between Rogue Trader and recent revelations was so that people could make up their own pair of Primarchs for model painting and personal fanon (although this has lost its effect as doing so is a step in sending them down the path of the Mary Sue)...

I mean, if you ignore the fact that in the HH books they make it pretty clear the wolves were unleashed on one of them.....

**j31c3n**

You are aware, of course, that I'm talking about fluff that was written in the 1990s, not the more modern Black Library novels?

The two lost legions were originally a reference to the battle of Teutoburg forest.

**cincydooley**

j31c3n wrote:
You are aware, of course, that I'm talking about fluff that was written in the 1990s, not the more modern Black Library novels?

The two lost legions were originally a reference to the battle of Teutoburg forest.

So now defunct garbage fluff? Got it.

**j31c3n**

I love how you're disingenuously ignoring my point just to "win" the discussion.

**Retrogamer0001**

I personally think the rediscovery of a being like a lost Primarch would have a tremendous impact on the 40K universe (obviously) and not necessarily even for balance or modelling purposes. I don't need to see a playable Primarch model for IG or SM armies, nor do I need his stats printed out in a codex. I would be far, far more interested on his take on the condition and future of the Emperor in the Golden Throne, the invasion of the Hive Fleets, and the division between SM chapters. Would a Primarch be capable of uniting the Imperium?

**McNinja**

No one really knows who they are. Only the highly known and regarded would be capable of changing anything. If gulliman or whatever woke up, he could have some pull, but some random giant claiming to be a primarchs from a Legion scratched from from the for some unknown reason? Likely.

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

Well Roboute Guilliman certainly thought he could.

**cincydooley**

j31c3n wrote:
I love how you're disingenuously ignoring my point just to "win" the discussion.

I'm disregarding it because it conveniently ignores ALL the new information we have in a universe that's far more developed than the scribbles from 1990.

**j31c3n**

cincydooley wrote:
j31c3n wrote:
I love how you're disingenuously ignoring my point just to "win" the discussion.

I'm disregarding it because it conveniently ignores ALL the new information we have in a universe that's far more developed than the scribbles from 1990.

I'm not "conveniently ignoring" anything. I'm saying that originally, the two missing legions were a historical reference to the Roman legions lost at the Battle of Teutoburg Forest. New fluff does not change that fact. I've been discussing the missing legions from an out-of-universe perspective for the entire thread.

**DEUS VULT**

It's likely they'll flesh them out and the reason they were banished/killed once the HH wraps up. It's a good way to bring all the primarchs back and start another monster series of books, now examining the recovery of the primarchs and the beginning of the great crusade, because, yknow, money. They'll never lead the Imperium into battle, though. They're dead and gone by the start of the HH.

*edited to clarify and expand*

**Retrogamer0001**

DEUS VULT wrote:
I'm sure they will, once the HH wraps up. It's a good way to bring all the primarchs back and start another monster series of books, now examining the recovery of the primarchs and the beginning of the great crusade, because, yknow, money.

I would be fine with this, though I doubt many could be recovered...

**Brother Payne**

It's not going to happen.
Basically GW's stuck in the 13th Black Crusade and is currently using Matt Ward as a bulldozer to rewrite currently existing fluff.
Exhibit #1: newcrons
Until they move on from the 13th BC I doubt we'll be seeing any decent new plot development (unless Ward is somehow removed from the equation).
So basically no.

**DEUS VULT**

Brother Payne wrote:
It's not going to happen.
Basically GW's stuck in the 13th Black Crusade and is currently using Matt Ward as a bulldozer to rewrite currently existing fluff.
Exhibit #1: newcrons
Until they move on from the 13th BC I doubt we'll be seeing any decent new plot development (unless Ward is somehow removed from the equation).
So basically no.

But that's exactly it, they wouldn't be moving the plot along. They'd be expanding on what we already know, and revealing why the two primarchs got banhammered. They'd be able to expand the fluff and make money while still maintaining the status quo. Not saying it will happen, but I can sure see why it would. Again, no new fluff past the HH.

**cannoncocker**

I agree with the no. In know no fear, Roboute Guilliman said they were destroyed, or something to that content. This is not the exact words, but did not follow Emperor. So they were destroyed at least that's what I got out of it.

**Brother Payne**

DEUS VULT wrote:
Brother Payne wrote:
It's not going to happen.
Basically GW's stuck in the 13th Black Crusade and is currently using Matt Ward as a bulldozer to rewrite currently existing fluff.
Exhibit #1: newcrons
Until they move on from the 13th BC I doubt we'll be seeing any decent new plot development (unless Ward is somehow removed from the equation).
So basically no.

But that's exactly it, they wouldn't be moving the plot along. They'd be expanding on what we already know, and revealing why the two primarchs got banhammered. They'd be able to expand the fluff and make money while still maintaining the status quo. Not saying it will happen, but I can sure see why it would.

If think if it happens (very big if), it will be at the same time as Guilliman and/or the Lion rocks up.
Plus maybe some of the others - maybe even the DP Primarchs... - in a massive "present day" Primarch release (like what FW are doing know)

**Iron_Captain**

I highly doubt GW is ever going to advance any plots. They have made it pretty clear that it supposed to be a setting for their game (and thus has to be static to prevent issues things like squatgate from pissing people off)
They are even retconning the whole Storm of Chaos in WHFB after it accidently advanced the plot.

**MWHistorian**

I dont think they'd be welcomed back, there is reason to believe that Russ destdestroyed one and what ever happened to the other one probably wasn't good because it makes the other primarchs uncomfortable.

**Retrogamer0001**

In that case, they might as well pull the Emperor from the Golden Throne and see if the "Star Child" theory is correct or not

**Shadow Captain Edithae**

It kills me that with a static plotline, we're never going to see a conclusion and answers to the...

- The Star Child theory
-Lost Primarchs and Legions
-fates of the remaining Loyalist Primarchs (wtf is my Primarch Corax doing, flying into the Eye of Terror? Committing suicide?)
-the truth about the Dark Angels past and current loyalties
-the truth about the Alpha Legion's current loyalties and intentions (is the main faction lead by the surviving Alpharius/Omegon twin still trying to fulfill the prophecy of destroying Chaos through the extinction of humanity, or have they just given up and pledged themselves altogether to Chaos?).

These are all fascinating and would make for incredible stories.