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Hello,

I was just wondering since Jink needs to be decided before any rolls to hit are determined how it work if I shoot say an appoc blast targeting skimmer A but also hit skimmer B,C,D, and E?

Would they get to jink even though they are not the target?

Also with a Large blast as I nominate 1 target and I shoot a large blast and scatter onto another skimmer instead rules as I understand it indicate on both cases that t hey can't Jink as they are not the declared target.


I am looking for other people's opinions regarding this particular rule abuse as my friends and I have been debating it back and forth for a few days and now looking for a larger communities thought regarding it.

thank you.

The way it was described to me when I asked, only the initial target can take the Jink, so say your shot scatters and hits other bikes instead, they are not being targeted so they cannot try and jink. The ruling on Jink I believe states when they are targeted, I could and hope I am wrong otherwise my bikes can die on pure accident now

If I had a unit that was in scatter range of another target and I was worried about this, I would just elect to jink before he rolls to hit/scatter. No rule forbids you from jinking early. You could argue that the target area of a weapon that scatters is technically any point within the radius of it's scatter. There is room for interpretation of what it means to be a unit that is a selected target. You may also want to elect to jink before you fire any of your blast weapons near any of your own skimmers. Friendly fire isn't. Though I guess it could then be argued that you can't fire a weapon that scatters within scatter range of friendly units since you are not normally allowed to target friendly units. Though in practice that sounds like a pretty good rule to follow, I killed a bunch of my cultists the other day when my blastmaster scattered.

I think as long as you decide to jink before any To Hit rolls have been made you are golden.

No there isn't actually

You may only junk when told you can. You are told you can do so when targeted. Being in scatter range is not the same thing as being targeted.

It isn't ambiguous at all, just counter intuitive and probably up for a FAQ

Nothing rolls saves until it's hit. You jink when hit. I'm not sure what I'm missing, but I've not seen anything saying other units hit by the blast can't take cover or jink saves.

 Lobukia wrote:
Nothing rolls saves until it's hit. You jink when hit. I'm not sure what I'm missing, but I've not seen anything saying other units hit by the blast can't take cover or jink saves.

Nos answered this right before you posted.

Also Jink needs to be declared when a target is picked, a scatter shot veering off course is not a target its more akin to a fall out.

"When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink. The decision must be made before any To Hit rolls have been made." (Jink Special Rule, BRB)

With the current version of the Rules, only the unit being Targeted can Jinx, but the interaction with Scatter Rules and Jinx is likely an oversight.

 Lobukia wrote:
Nothing rolls saves until it's hit. You jink when hit. I'm not sure what I'm missing, but I've not seen anything saying other units hit by the blast can't take cover or jink saves.

Jinks grants you a cover save. You can ONLY declare you are junking when targeted. Different timing, similar to evade from 6th being declared before rolling to pen armour. It is very clear in the rule book,and is not ambiguous

 Lobukia wrote:
Nothing rolls saves until it's hit. You jink when hit. I'm not sure what I'm missing, but I've not seen anything saying other units hit by the blast can't take cover or jink saves.

"When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will jink. The decision must be made before any To Hit rolls have been made."

Bold emphasis mine.

The rules are pretty clear that not only do you have to be selected as the target, you also have to declare Jink before your opponent rolls any To Hit dice.

JinxDragon wrote:
With the current version of the Rules, only the unit being Targeted can Jinx, but the interaction with Scatter Rules and Jinx is likely an oversight.

Or working as intended as if the scatter moves, anything else hit wasn't the target.

You shoot a Missile at someone, you miss, the missile is going to keep going until it hits something, the initial target was what you were aiming at, everything else it hits is accident or coincidence.

When firing a blast weapon, models do not roll to hit. Instead just pick one enemy model visible to the firer and place the 3" blast marker with its hole entirely over the base of the target model...since blast weapons only roll to scatter, and do not roll to hit. The moment the template scatters over your unit you can elect to jink since you have now been selected as the target and there has not yet been a roll to hit. So technically you can always wait for your opponent to roll for scatter and then elect to jink if it hits you. The BRB pretty clearly states that they do not roll not hit.

I'd say this is a clear win for the jinkers. Likewise barrage weapons use the rules for blast weapons, with a few exceptions of its own. However it too does not roll to hit.

Incorrect. Selecting a unit as a target happens long before placing the blast marker and scattering. Since Jink must be declared when a unit is selected as a target, by the time the marker scatters the opportunity is long past.

rigeld2 wrote:
Incorrect. Selecting a unit as a target happens long before placing the blast marker and scattering. Since Jink must be declared when a unit is selected as a target, by the time the marker scatters the opportunity is long past.

No the decision must be made before any To Hit roll is made.

I guess the only thing is does having the blast marker being put over your unit count for being selected.

Tenacio wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Incorrect. Selecting a unit as a target happens long before placing the blast marker and scattering. Since Jink must be declared when a unit is selected as a target, by the time the marker scatters the opportunity is long past.

No the decision must be made before any To Hit roll is made.

I guess the only thing is does having the blast marker being put over your unit count for being selected.

Then since you never roll to hit with blasts/templates, the decision to jink can never be made.

 erick99 wrote:

Tenacio wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Incorrect. Selecting a unit as a target happens long before placing the blast marker and scattering. Since Jink must be declared when a unit is selected as a target, by the time the marker scatters the opportunity is long past.

No the decision must be made before any To Hit roll is made.

I guess the only thing is does having the blast marker being put over your unit count for being selected.

Then since you never roll to hit with blasts/templates, the decision to jink can never be made.

When looking at Blast markers as not needing to Roll to Hit then no they cannot Jink.

Tenacio wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Incorrect. Selecting a unit as a target happens long before placing the blast marker and scattering. Since Jink must be declared when a unit is selected as a target, by the time the marker scatters the opportunity is long past.

No the decision must be made before any To Hit roll is made.

I guess the only thing is does having the blast marker being put over your unit count for being selected.

Really?

When a unit with any models with the Jink special rule is selected as a target for a shooting attack, you may declare that it will Jink.

Does your BRB say differently under the Jink SR?

Could one argue that targeting an area is targeting a unit nearby? Of course you'd have to snapfire even if missed.

 Lobukia wrote:
Could one argue that targeting an area is targeting a unit nearby? Of course you'd have to snapfire even if missed.

You can't target an area.

 Lobukia wrote:
Could one argue that targeting an area is targeting a unit nearby? Of course you'd have to snapfire even if missed.

Targeting an area is targeting an area. For example, I declare a piece of the board within my range to shoot at an empty spot, I am targeting that area. Technically a Blast targets an area, not a unit and as Jink requires a unit to be targeted, they cannot Jink for a Blast.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Could one argue that targeting an area is targeting a unit nearby? Of course you'd have to snapfire even if missed.

You can't target an area.

Nothing prevents a Blast from targeting an area. In fact, that is exactly how a Blast templates work. They are for area attacks, or in common gaming terms, area of effect attacks.

Blasts are required to be centered over an enemy model in a way that does not hit a friendly model. You have to target an enemy unit, not just any spot on the board. You effect everything under the blast, but you target what it is initially centered on.

Zodiark wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:
Could one argue that targeting an area is targeting a unit nearby? Of course you'd have to snapfire even if missed.

You can't target an area.

Nothing prevents a Blast from targeting an area.

Really? Where in the Shooting Phase rules are you allowed to fire at an area? All I can see are rules for targeting units.
And the Blast rules say:

Instead, just pick one enemy model visible to the firer and place the 3" blast marker with its hole entirely over the base of the target model (see diagram), or its hull if the target is a vehicle.

So.. actually there are things that prevent a Blast from targeting an area, as you must place the marker over an enemy model.

 erick99 wrote:
Blasts are required to be centered over an enemy model in a way that does not hit a friendly model. You have to target an enemy unit, not just any spot on the board.

Then Blasts target and a Jink is allowed. If they do not target, I can shoot at a blank spot on the board.

Zodiark,
Actually there is something which prevents an "Area" from being targeted: The requirement that the blast marker is centered around a Model from the Targeted Unit.
Compare that to weapons like that Necron Ray which contains instructions stating to Target any spot on the table within range of the Weapon... deliberate Targeting of an Area, not just hitting it as a by-product.

Zodiark wrote:

 erick99 wrote:
Blasts are required to be centered over an enemy model in a way that does not hit a friendly model. You have to target an enemy unit, not just any spot on the board.

Then Blasts target and a Jink is allowed. If they do not target, I can shoot at a blank spot on the board.

No is saying they don't target. Perhaps you should read all of the thread?

The unit that is targeted can Jink. If the blast scatters, the unit it scatters onto cannot Jink.

Zodiark wrote:

 erick99 wrote:
Blasts are required to be centered over an enemy model in a way that does not hit a friendly model. You have to target an enemy unit, not just any spot on the board.

Then Blasts target and a Jink is allowed. If they do not target, I can shoot at a blank spot on the board.

They target as normal for shooting. A unit hit by a scattering blast was not targeted and cannot jink.

One could argue that even a targeted unit could never jink as that choice is made before rolling to hit. As noted, blasts don't roll to hit. (Not HIWPI.)

JinxDragon wrote:
Actually there is something which prevents an "Area" from being targeted: The requirement that the blast marker is centered around a Model from the Targeted Unit.
Compare that to weapons like that Necron Ray which contains instructions stating to pick any spot on the table within range... that is targeting an Area, not just hitting an area as a by-product.

No I know, sarcasm is hard to convey in a forum.

Either a Blast has to target an enemy model, thus allowing Jinks or it does not have to thus allowing me to place it anywhere I want.

 erick99 wrote:

Zodiark wrote:

 erick99 wrote:
Blasts are required to be centered over an enemy model in a way that does not hit a friendly model. You have to target an enemy unit, not just any spot on the board.

Then Blasts target and a Jink is allowed. If they do not target, I can shoot at a blank spot on the board.

They target as normal for shooting. A unit hit by a scattering blast was not targeted and cannot jink.

One could argue that even a targeted unit could never jink as that choice is made before rolling to hit. As noted, blasts don't roll to hit.

No - it's made when the unit is targeted. So you can't argue that.

 erick99 wrote:

Zodiark wrote:

 erick99 wrote:
Blasts are required to be centered over an enemy model in a way that does not hit a friendly model. You have to target an enemy unit, not just any spot on the board.

Then Blasts target and a Jink is allowed. If they do not target, I can shoot at a blank spot on the board.

They target as normal for shooting. A unit hit by a scattering blast was not targeted and cannot jink.

One could argue that even a targeted unit could never jink as that choice is made before rolling to hit. As noted, blasts don't roll to hit.

Jinks require being targeted, not a roll of hit being required.

In short - the original target can Jink. Units that suffer because of scatter, or that happen to be caught under a blast that's targeting another unit, cannot Jink.

rigeld2 wrote:
In short - the original target can Jink. Units that suffer because of scatter, or that happen to be caught under a blast that's targeting another unit, cannot Jink.

Correct, and was stated earlier on in the thread.