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I'm using citadel right now, but should I use Vallejo instead? I've heard way too many good things about it.

I have used both, both are good. Buy a couple Vallejo and decide for yourself. Personally I use a mixture of brands, whatever works!

All the brands have good and not so great options. Some folks just make some colors better than others.

I personally use paints from VGC, VMA, VMC, Reaper HD, P3, Tamiya, and I still have a few of the old GW line.

I would recommend trying different brands on the paints you aren't happy with.

Thank you all! I will be also trying out Reaper, Coat d'Arms, and Rakham. Please feel free to keep posting your opinions on and I will still be reading all further posts.

Darefsky pretty much already hit the nail on the head: all the major brands are more or less the same and each have their good options and not so good options.

Use whatever you can most easily acquire and that won't kill your wallet.

Vallejo is good. Vallejo Model Air is my favourite range, and I use it when it has the colour I want, unless a different range has a certain paint with better properties for that role, for example Citadel Ceramite White has great coverage for a white. VMA lacks vibrant colours however, so Vallejo Game Colour fills that role for me - except Vallejo has just launched a "Vallejo Game Air" line which reviews are very promising of so it'll be the best of both worlds - small pigment, smooth airbrush paint with vibrant sci-fi and fantasy colours. Vallejo bottles are also much better than GW tubs imo, especially when using a (wet) palette or airbrush and are much less likely to cake and dry out. They're also substantially cheaper per volume than GW paints and have large support online for paint schemes and tutorials.

Some of the downsides are some VGC colours can separate and require stirring, no amount of shaking will be enough, and some VGC colours (a couple reds and yellows) have low coverage. That's about it really.

 Yonan wrote:
Vallejo is good. Vallejo Model Air is my favourite range, and I use it when it has the colour I want, unless a different range has a certain paint with better properties for that role, for example Citadel Ceramite White has great coverage for a white. VMA lacks vibrant colours however, so Vallejo Game Colour fills that role for me - except Vallejo has just launched a "Vallejo Game Air" line which reviews are very promising of so it'll be the best of both worlds - small pigment, smooth airbrush paint with vibrant sci-fi and fantasy colours. Vallejo bottles are also much better than GW tubs imo, especially when using a (wet) palette or airbrush and are much less likely to cake and dry out. They're also substantially cheaper per volume than GW paints and have large support online for paint schemes and tutorials.

Some of the downsides are some VGC colours can separate and require stirring, no amount of shaking will be enough, and some VGC colours (a couple reds and yellows) have low coverage. That's about it really.

You have to stir?!

I've heard that a ball bearing in the bottle is a good remedy to that, been meaning to try it out myself.

I have agitators in my VGC bottles - it helps but a couple (only ~4 iirc of the 100+ line) need to be stirred. No VMC or VMA that I know of need to be stirred. VGC is still a really good line imo, though the VGA line will virtually replace it for me.

A couple reviews of the new Vallejo Game Air line: here and here.

Can you still get Rackham paint!?

I wouldn't bother replacing any of your GW paints, but definitely try some other brands as you can get your hands on them. They all have good and bad points. I really can't fault GW on their "base" range. I also like their washes, but over time their washes tend to thicken up a bit which means if you wash a model now and another one in a year, they may not have the same effect (which may or may not be problematic). I've mostly switched to Army Painter for their washes.

If you are doing airbrushing, I can REALLY recommend Gunze, they are the best acrylics I've airbrushed. They tend to be a bit too translucent when it comes to hairy brush painting, but they go on really smooth and when airbrushed they just look great and blend really well.

I've got nothing exceptionally good to say about the Vallejo paints I've used, they work fine. Their main strength is that they come in dropper bottles which are so much nicer to use than GW's pots. At first I really like the Vallejo Model Air range for airbrushing, but these days I'm happy airbrushing any paint so I don't bother getting the "Air" line of paints other than the aforementioned Gunze.

I use the Old citadel, new citadel, P3, Vallejo model colour, model air, humbrol, Game colour and xtracrylic, daler rowny and W&N in varying amnounts for painting miniatures. All model paints have their own different strengths and weaknesses, except for Tamiya acrylic which I think is overrated gak.

 Vermis wrote:
Can you still get Rackham paint!?

Only on ebay.

I completely switched to Vallejo, both Model Air and Model Color. I got sick of GW changing their entire paint line, terrible paint pots, and overpriced for what you get. Lead-free (Tin) fishing weights are my agitators of choice, cheap and really makes mixing those dropper bottles easy. Adding acrylic mediums and using a wet palette makes vallejo the best paint I've ever used

Speaking of GW changing their paint range, Vallejo Game Air is 90% of the time a 100% match to Vallejo Game Colour, and the others are damn close. They put a lot of effort in which is great and worth supporting. Many (most?) of the new GW range do not exactly match the previous range which is a pita if you were using them.

Hmmm... I tried testors and they work well... They're cheap too.

Vallejo is pretty much all I use now, the only GW paints I still use are the washes.

I use a little bit of everything - including a line of artist acrylics called Jo Sonja that I discovered about 10 years ago.

lliu wrote:
Hmmm... I tried testors and they work well... They're cheap too.

Testors paints are oil-based enamels, not water-based acrylics like Citadel, Reaper, Vallejo, et al. Because they're oil-based, you need white spirits for thinning and cleanup. If you try to use water with Testors paints, you'll just make a mess.

DarkSoldier wrote:

lliu wrote:
Hmmm... I tried testors and they work well... They're cheap too.

Testors paints are oil-based enamels, not water-based acrylics like Citadel, Reaper, Vallejo, et al. Because they're oil-based, you need white spirits for thinning and cleanup. If you try to use water with Testors paints, you'll just make a mess.

Testors also makes water based acrylic paints branded "Model Master Acryl" that are pretty much in line with most other hobby acrylics.

I generally use GW paints. Like like their layering system, consistency, and the fact that I can pick them up at a half dozen hobby stores within driving distance. For me, P3 is the only other brand easily accessible; Vallejo, Reaper, Army Painter are only available in 1 store that's a little far away.

There's no way around noticing that GW has holes in their paint range. For instance, there is no purple between Xerxeus and Genestealer, and a huge gap between Genestealer and Lilac (edge). There is also no red darker than Khorne, which is not that dark.

When blending, I prefer wet-on-wet rather than feathering (or layering) from a color darkened with a wash, which seems to be the Citadel method. Mostly, this is because if I mess it up or want to move the transition point, I can fix it a lot easier if I have the darker color. Incidentally, I use Reaper to get my darker reds and purples, and VMC to fill in some of the lighter gaps. Each brand also has a different metallic range, and these are very helpful, as you don't really want to be mixing your own metallics.

Color range aside, some of the paints are simply superior. For instance, GW Leadbelcher is an amazing metallic that just goes on way thinner and easier than any other brand. Likewise, white is a pain to paint, but VMC White is just much better than P3 or GW (they also have a superthick Foundation White, and a white paint-on primer). VMC Gold is also much superior to Auric Gold, in my opinion, and Army Painter has nice metallics.

I like Citadel washes the best, by far. Not only is the color range and product consistency great, but I vastly prefer the pots than eyedroppers for washes, because if you're only washing recesses, one drop in a palette will be 75% wasted. For paints, I prefer pots, but I do hate cleaning the back part of the current GW pots. Again, though, other brands will offer colors that may be desirable for a project.

For non-paint stuff, some of the Citadel technical paints are cool, Vallejo Retarder is nice gel retarder and various mediums, and Reaper makes a liquid retarder. However, you can get mediums that do the same thing from Liquitex in bottles that are ten times the size and just transfer them into smaller dispensers.

Don't forget that Army Painter has paints that are a 100% match to their colored primers, which are conveniently colored to paint many GW themes (Wolf Grey, Ultramarine Blue, Angel Green, Goblin Greenskin, etc.). This is a huge time and paint saver if you're looking to paint a large number of units without an airbrush for basecoat.

I guess the short answer is just that every manufacturer has some cool stuff, and if you really like painting miniatures, there's really no way around getting some stuff from each

Talys wrote:

I guess the short answer is just that every manufacturer has some cool stuff, and if you really like painting miniatures, there's really no way around getting some stuff from each

i must be one of the few people who paints almost exclusively with P3...
i've tried other brands, but the colors don't do it for me in the same way that P3 does...
i find a lot of the tones to be very unique compared to the rest of the brands out there...

i love the slightly satin finish...
the coverage is amazing...
the 2 washes never dry with the slight white residue i've seen with GW washes...
the inks are great, too, and really bring all the transitions together when glazed on...

there is even a chart floating around that details exactly how the line was produced to work together, i.e. base, shade, and highlight...

of course, some people really hate the pots...
i'm in the other camp, i'm just not a fan of Vallejos droppers, and find the majority of their colors to be a bit boring in comparison to P3's tones , and i think Reaper is just too matte a paint for my tastes...
i don't airbrush so have no need for those specialist brands...
i like what different brands are doing, like the Vallejo sets Angel (painter for Infinity the game) is making for NMM and such...
companies like Andrea and Scale 75 are doing the same, with kits for NMM golds or steel, reds, blacks, skin, and things like that...
it's a great idea, but not something i feel i need...

at the end of the day, i really enjoy the challenge of recreating the work of the different studios using my P3 paints...
can i paint a Yu-Jing Domaru like Angel using P3???
can i paint a Space Wolves Marine to look like the studio shade of blue-grey using my P3???
that challenge is fun for me...

every one will approach painting differently, and there doesn't really seem to be any right way, except what works for you...
the hard part is finding YOUR way...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:

i must be one of the few people who paints almost exclusively with P3...
i've tried other brands, but the colors don't do it for me in the same way that P3 does...
i find a lot of the tones to be very unique compared to the rest of the brands out there...

i love the slightly satin finish...
the coverage is amazing...
the 2 washes never dry with the slight white residue i've seen with GW washes...
the inks are great, too, and really bring all the transitions together when glazed on...

I actually like the P3 pots... they are like the retro (90s) GW pots I have almost all of the P3 paints, and use the Menoth White set instead of GW Ushbanti Bone/Screaming Skull. Their AR, or wash is cool as well, leaving a much shinier finish (nuhln oil makes everything really matte).

My biggest issue with P3 is that there aren't enough colors. All the blue units look like Cyngar, for example. The blues, greens, and browns for GW are really nicely synergistic. Also, I like to have at least 4 paints that are close enough together in hue, so that I can have 3 shades for wet blending, and 1 for edge highlight. One more for highlighting the edge highlights is nice too.

In a way, P3 reminds me of old Citadel paints in terms of variety.

As you say, they are nice paints!

I like the droppers because I can fit more paints on my table hahahahaha

I've completely switched to Vallejo. Quality-wise it's the same with GW paints, but you get more paint for less money. And it has more colors. For inks I use both P3 and Vallejo.

I switched to Vallejo and others when GW decided to rename, reformulate and rebrand their paints the last time. I was in a bit of a tizzy becaise Agrax Earthshade was brown but had completely different properties to Devlan Mud, and their reds changed colour and I was painting Behemoth Tyranids.

In my explorations through different paints, I've been relatively happy with Vallejo. Massive range of colours. But I dabble in other ranges as well - P3 has some unique colours that I like, like Thrall Flesh and Jack Bone, which are just different enough to the rotting fleshes and bones of other ranges. But I use Army Painter washes/inks, and I've started looking at Secret Weapon inks as well.

Yeah that colour change from GW would have aggravated me badly Loki. Thankfully Vallejos Game Air looks to be so much better in colour matching - and it's not even replacing the Game Colour line, it's just adding a range with different properties to your repertoire. I've already ordered 10 from the UK heheh, really looking forward to them!

I also picked up AP and SW washes this year and find them both great - sadly I also picked up Nuln and really like its properties -_-

See, I've been through I think every paint range change GW have done. So it's not new to me. I've seen certain paints go through formula changes that makes it hard to keep going with your army.

But the mst recent change, they not only did formula changes, they renamed paints to completely nonsensical themed names in what appears to be an effort to be able to trademark them, tried to implement a base/layer/highlight system without doing the logical thing and informing people what 'groups' were intended to go together, and then released a chart telling people which new paints matched old paints with no thought to if they actually did. Some paints they recommended were completely different.

It was a complete clusterfeth of a range change. However, I do still have some of the new range. They're not bad for spot colours I can't find elsewhere, and their technical paints really are good.

Some of the bases are really good too - ceramite white I really like, I have the red and yellow too but forget their names because as you say, they're ridiculous.

I use a variety.

Also, do a search - really.

This type of topic comes up about once a month - you will find more info than you can read in a day.

Final note: do not use a METAL agitator ball in your paint (stainless steel does corrode, just not as fast).

use ceramic or glass beads if you use anything at all.

Find a friend with different paints, borrow them, see what you like.

 -Loki- wrote:
and their technical paints really are good.

Plot twist: Vallejo is doing a line of technical paints similar to GW.

DarkSoldier wrote:

lliu wrote:
Hmmm... I tried testors and they work well... They're cheap too.

Testors paints are oil-based enamels, not water-based acrylics like Citadel, Reaper, Vallejo, et al. Because they're oil-based, you need white spirits for thinning and cleanup. If you try to use water with Testors paints, you'll just make a mess.

Uh... On the box it says Water-Based Acrylic paint.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jah-joshua wrote:

Talys wrote:

I guess the short answer is just that every manufacturer has some cool stuff, and if you really like painting miniatures, there's really no way around getting some stuff from each

i must be one of the few people who paints almost exclusively with P3...
i've tried other brands, but the colors don't do it for me in the same way that P3 does...
i find a lot of the tones to be very unique compared to the rest of the brands out there...

i love the slightly satin finish...
the coverage is amazing...
the 2 washes never dry with the slight white residue i've seen with GW washes...
the inks are great, too, and really bring all the transitions together when glazed on...

there is even a chart floating around that details exactly how the line was produced to work together, i.e. base, shade, and highlight...

of course, some people really hate the pots...
i'm in the other camp, i'm just not a fan of Vallejos droppers, and find the majority of their colors to be a bit boring in comparison to P3's tones , and i think Reaper is just too matte a paint for my tastes...
i don't airbrush so have no need for those specialist brands...
i like what different brands are doing, like the Vallejo sets Angel (painter for Infinity the game) is making for NMM and such...
companies like Andrea and Scale 75 are doing the same, with kits for NMM golds or steel, reds, blacks, skin, and things like that...
it's a great idea, but not something i feel i need...

at the end of the day, i really enjoy the challenge of recreating the work of the different studios using my P3 paints...
can i paint a Yu-Jing Domaru like Angel using P3???
can i paint a Space Wolves Marine to look like the studio shade of blue-grey using my P3???
that challenge is fun for me...

every one will approach painting differently, and there doesn't really seem to be any right way, except what works for you...
the hard part is finding YOUR way...

cheers
jah

Privateer Press P3 is that good?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 heartserenade wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
and their technical paints really are good.

Plot twist: Vallejo is doing a line of technical paints similar to GW.

COPYCAT!!!!!!!