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So, in one of my army list threads, someone posted that I need some AA fire. My question is, what is the best option? Also, are there more options than what I have listed below?

1. Flakk Missile Launchers in Dev Squad
2. Stalker
3. Hunter
4. Stormtalon

I like the Storm Talon as it does not render your point investment useless if the enemy doesn't bring air units.

 Shadox wrote:
I like the Storm Talon as it does not render your point investment useless if the enemy doesn't bring air units.

Yep, that's something I've never liked about dedicated AA - they offer no flexibility. The Stalker is, strictly speaking, the most efficient AA on this list. But Stormtalons are not much less effective in terms of damage caused vs points spent, and are infinitely more flexible. Likewise, Devastators are not very efficient at AA but do have the advantage of being able to shoot at ground targets on turn 1, and on any subsequent turns where the enemy flyers are not on the board.

The Hunter/stalker are our only dedicated anti-air, but if they're not shooting at air, they pretty much are useless. The Storm Talon can also double as anti-armor.

Remember that Skyfire allows you to shoot Skimmers at full BS as well, and I think ignore their jink save, so if you see a lot of Eldar/Tau then it can come in handy there as well.

But I agree the Stormtalon is probably the best AA available in the codex.

If you're not using a Storm Raven, you're Space Marining wrong.

I use 2 riflemen Dreadnoughts and a Stormtalon. They can reliably bring down 2 average flyers ( as you can reroll all the rifleman hits ) unless your game goes horribly wrong. The good part is the Dreadnoughts can also be used against ground forces.

If you're thinking tournament level anti-air I'd go with 2 Stormtalons, perhaps stick even an Aegis-Quad in there for those pesky 'crons.

Stormtalon or Stormraven are your best bets. The flakk "upgrade" is expensive, weak, and doesn't give your unit interceptor. The Hunter/Stalker are okay but take up a Heavy Support slot, which I'd rather fill with Thunderfires, Predators, and Devastators. Finally, you could take a fortification (Aegis Defense Line or Bastion most likely) with a quad gun, man the unit with Scouts, and try shooting down aircraft that way.

 krodarklorr wrote:
If you're not using a Storm Raven, you're Space Marining wrong.

oh yeah. A well-kitted out SR can definitely lay down some serious dakka, but it also costs a ton of points. Still, with hurricane bolter sponsons and TLLC, you can basically deal with any threat. However, you can almost afford two Stormtalons for that price.

I have read that the Contemptor-Mortis can function as AA as well, is this true? Kinda crappy you can't get some sort of option for a regular dread that gives them skyfire. Might make dreads actually useful.

Contemptor Mortis
Normal Mortis
Hyperios Whirlwinds
Land Raider Hyperios
Hyperios Tarantulas
Fire Raptors
Thunderhawk
Storm Eagles
Storm Talons
Storm Ravens
And anything with twin-linked.

There are pros and cons for everything.

Flack missiles are overpriced, IMHO. Plus it’s only one S7 shot. So to get an effective volume of fire, you need to multiply the overpriced nature by the number you need. Probably 4 for a full dev squad. Which is still probably not going to down a flier. Fist dev squads are a little better then most here, as you get tank hunter.

I like the AA tanks on paper. Don’t own one, so can’t speak from experience. The price is low, but they do eat a HS slot. Although they are stuck on skyfire, pretty much every army has either fliers of skimmers, and they tend to be popular units. And if not, you just snap fire your ~75 point tank at ground targets, happy that the skies are clear. Or just run it about as mobile cover. Feel free to put the pedal down, you hit on 6s anyway.

They flyers are our best bet. Both the talon and the raven. They are well priced, pack a chunk of firepower, and have a number of nice perks. Hard to go wrong with either of them. The ability to switch to ground support as needed with no penalty is very nice these days.

ADL w/ quadgun is still a solid choice. Sure, you snap at ground targets these days, but TL helps with that. And as pointed out with the AA tanks, odds are, there is something floating around out there you can shoot without penalty. The ADL (a/o the bastions or other fort) also brings other things to your army. Like cover or a bunker to hide in.

Massed ground fire is an option, but not the best one. Other chapters can do it better then the fists. Ultramarine’s dev tactic, where they can re-roll all their CT units' snap-shots for a turn helps here. But if you have enough mid/high strength shots in your list, you can just turn then to the sky as needed. You waste a lot with the misses, but you can go right back to shooting at ground targets when the skies are clean.

Some armies, particularly highly mobile ones, can get away with just ignoring fliers. You have all of your army on the table, they have some of theirs in reserve. You just hammer the tar out of them and play the mission. Take advantage of the lack of maneuverability of most flyers to stay in their blind spots. Just take your one or two hits and soldier on. This can backfire on you, and I’d not recommend it. You could get some very bad match-ups.

Am I being dense, but where are the rules for the Aegis defense line? I know it has a quadgun emplacement and all that,, but what does it cost in points and stuff? Looking in both my C:SM and 7e RB, can't find anything on its points cost. Depending on how much it costs, it might be a good place to set up my dev squad and use one of the non-heavy weapon marines to fire it.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Am I being dense, but where are the rules for the Aegis defense line? I know it has a quadgun emplacement and all that,, but what does it cost in points and stuff? Looking in both my C:SM and 7e RB, can't find anything on its points cost. Depending on how much it costs, it might be a good place to set up my dev squad and use one of the non-heavy weapon marines to fire it.

They used to be in the main book. Now you need stronghold assault.

 Nevelon wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Am I being dense, but where are the rules for the Aegis defense line? I know it has a quadgun emplacement and all that,, but what does it cost in points and stuff? Looking in both my C:SM and 7e RB, can't find anything on its points cost. Depending on how much it costs, it might be a good place to set up my dev squad and use one of the non-heavy weapon marines to fire it.

They used to be in the main book. Now you need stronghold assault.

Well, I guess I can scratch that off my list of possibilities. I am not spending $30 on one model and $35 for that one model. I am leaning toward Storm Talon for low points, possibly a second for higher points. I like that they are dual-function. It sucks about the ADL, since most of the stuff I read when I was looking for their rules is that they are pretty cheap.

The Storm Talon is the most effective, but the Hunter and Stalker are beautiful models, so I will always push those.

Contempor mortis with kheres assault cannons. Simply the best. Failing that it's going to be the flyers or stalker

Furyou Miko wrote:The Storm Talon is the most effective, but the Hunter and Stalker are beautiful models, so I will always push those.

I am pretty well set on the Storm Talon. However, I almost want to get a Stalker for a number of reasons. 1. The shot count makes them not completely worthless against ground targets. Also, TL makes it so they don't suck terribly against ground targets. 2. They look cool. 3. They can immediately deal with stuff Turn 1ish instead of waiting until subsequent turns.

I really need to read up more on how the Storm Talon works.

ionusx wrote:Contempor mortis with kheres assault cannons. Simply the best. Failing that it's going to be the flyers or stalker

Yeah, the Contemptor Mortis has a lot going for it, namely that it can basically deal with any threat. Problem is $ and pts costs. I am not certain what the tournament rules are at my FLGS, but I would hate to blow a ton of money on something only for it not to be allowed in play. The fact that there is a Fire Raptor on display and one guy I saw playing had several Contemptor pattern dreads in his case, leads me to believe that they are allowed. Still, some of the other FLGSs in the area I know do not allow FW.

I've always had succes with my hunter. But if no flyers or skimmers turn up it becomes a piece of secery.

 Godeth wrote:
I've always had succes with my hunter. But if no flyers or skimmers turn up it becomes a piece of secery.

You could always put a storm bolter on it for 5 pts so it isn't COMPLETELY worthless without any flyers or skimmers.

It's just a 75 point storm bolter lol

Toofast wrote:
It's just a 75 point storm bolter lol

Well, it is a 75 pt Storm Bolter that grants cover. Like I said, not completely worthless, but it might as well be. It still has twin-linked on its Icarus cannons, so it can still hit stuff on the ground, just not all that often. The fact it gets like four shots with the Icarus cannons also increases the likelihood of hitting at least something. Still, for a mere forty points more, you can get yourself a Storm Talon that can deal with basically everything.

For budget point cost, I would go Stalker. If Flyers aren't present, it can still shoot 4 shots each at two different ground units as Snap Shots (BS 2 if skimmer).

Flakk Missiles for Missile Launcher are overpriced, but I still like to take them on my troops. Not sure if I would recommend for a Dev Squad.

 Farseer Pef wrote:
For budget point cost, I would go Stalker. If Flyers aren't present, it can still shoot 4 shots each at two different ground units as Snap Shots (BS 2 if skimmer).

Flakk Missiles for Missile Launcher are overpriced, but I still like to take them on my troops. Not sure if I would recommend for a Dev Squad.

Why would you only fire at BS2 against Skimmers? Skyfire allows you to fire at normal BS against Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures, and Skimmers.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Farseer Pef wrote:
For budget point cost, I would go Stalker. If Flyers aren't present, it can still shoot 4 shots each at two different ground units as Snap Shots (BS 2 if skimmer).

Why would you only fire at BS2 against Skimmers? Skyfire allows you to fire at normal BS against Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures, and Skimmers.

The Stalker can fire at two different targets at BS2, or at one target at twin-linked BS4.

 Quanar wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Farseer Pef wrote:
For budget point cost, I would go Stalker. If Flyers aren't present, it can still shoot 4 shots each at two different ground units as Snap Shots (BS 2 if skimmer).

Why would you only fire at BS2 against Skimmers? Skyfire allows you to fire at normal BS against Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures, and Skimmers.

The Stalker can fire at two different targets at BS2, or at one target at twin-linked BS4.

Isn't the stalker a sky fire weapon though? The point being it can encage two flyers hitting like any other model or one withe improved BS?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Quanar wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Farseer Pef wrote:
For budget point cost, I would go Stalker. If Flyers aren't present, it can still shoot 4 shots each at two different ground units as Snap Shots (BS 2 if skimmer).

Why would you only fire at BS2 against Skimmers? Skyfire allows you to fire at normal BS against Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures, and Skimmers.

The Stalker can fire at two different targets at BS2, or at one target at twin-linked BS4.

Isn't the stalker a sky fire weapon though? The point being it can encage two flyers hitting like any other model or one withe improved BS?

BS2 is still better than BS1.

 Quanar wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Farseer Pef wrote:
For budget point cost, I would go Stalker. If Flyers aren't present, it can still shoot 4 shots each at two different ground units as Snap Shots (BS 2 if skimmer).

Why would you only fire at BS2 against Skimmers? Skyfire allows you to fire at normal BS against Flyers, Flying Monstrous Creatures, and Skimmers.

The Stalker can fire at two different targets at BS2, or at one target at twin-linked BS4.

I just reread servo-tracking. Thanks for the clarification. Still, that isn't half bad. Does that override Skyfire making all ground shots BS1? It specifically says ALL shots made with servo-tracking are made at BS2.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I just reread servo-tracking. Thanks for the clarification. Still, that isn't half bad. Does that override Skyfire making all ground shots BS1? It specifically says ALL shots made with servo-tracking are made at BS2.

Uncertain, I believe there was quite some discussion about it at the time it came out. 7th added a "if it doesn't mention snap-shots it can't modify snap-shots" rule, which seemingly means that Servo doesn't override snap-shots, but that same rule makes things like PotMS a bit useless, so we're not sure if that's the intent.

I just played a sm list with a stalker, my drakes vector striked it and it did nothing all game. Go talon, at least that can hit ground targets. Raven is too expensive for aa unless youve got something nice and shiny to ferry about. Devs again are too expensive with flakk and are also very vulnerable.

I love the look of the storm talons and they come from an underused slot.

Stormravens are a little better, but come from heavy.