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Just was wondering what ways orks generate highly competative armies these days. Yes you probably won't see them win NOVA or something but I am having a little bit of a hard time building a strong list for them. Any insight would be very helpful!

acidlemon wrote:
Just was wondering what ways orks generate highly competative armies these days. Yes you probably won't see them win NOVA or something but I am having a little bit of a hard time building a strong list for them. Any insight would be very helpful!

basically it requires you to use imperial armor books and either do nob biker spam (because you can make them troops), or get your hands on the big stompas that are inside there. beyond that your not going to get very far with the ork codex

Greentide's doing great at GTs.

 ionusx wrote:
basically it requires you to use imperial armor books and either do nob biker spam (because you can make them troops), or get your hands on the big stompas that are inside there. beyond that your not going to get very far with the ork codex

There's nothing accurate in this post.

Nob bikers are too expensive to be used in large numbers. And nothing in the IA allows them to be taken as Troops.
Normal Warbikers can however, they're a much more effective unit due to lower cost. Making them Troops is only useful if you're using CAD's though.

Kustom Stompa is decent, but can still get very expensive quickly. Still an "eggs in one basket" approach.

There's much more useful stuff in the Formations then in IA currently.

I still find truck boyz to be a good buy for maelstrom missions.

 ionusx wrote:

acidlemon wrote:
Just was wondering what ways orks generate highly competative armies these days. Yes you probably won't see them win NOVA or something but I am having a little bit of a hard time building a strong list for them. Any insight would be very helpful!

basically it requires you to use imperial armor books and either do nob biker spam (because you can make them troops), or get your hands on the big stompas that are inside there. beyond that your not going to get very far with the ork codex

I laugh at this statement.

Nob Bikers are not king anymore. Being troops means nothing. Their cost is no longer justified, when average Warbikers are so cheap, and their unit sizes have increased. Stompas are not a competitive unit to begin with, due to their obscene point cost. A lot of HP yes, but with the vast S8 AP2 out there, the thing is going to blow very easily, and typically right on your own guys. Unless IA has something that takes the risk of a Strength D explosion out of the equation...

As for what is in JUST the Ork codex/Waagh Sup: The green tide is one of our best formations right now. You can make it as small as 101 models, or as large as 301 (Though I've yet to test it at anymore than 150 models max). You can essentially get a massive blob of boyz with hidden PK nobz that are fearless (by giving the warboss the Big Bosspole), and then add FNP for 50 points by adding in a Painboy from your CAD or Ork Hoard detachment. The Tide can kill fliers just by denying them anywhere to fly. It can flip tanks due to the PKs within. Most anything they get into base contact with WILL DIE. And your opponent is forced to deal with it or they will end up losing a lot of units to the sheer weight of the Boyz. If you run it cheap enough, you can still bring a boatload of support. Mek Gunz, Bikers, Deff Kopters/Buggies, Manz Missiles, etc. Very strong, very scary if not handled properly.

Mek Gunz are by far one of our gems this time around. Lobbas were already considered some of the best things in our old codex. But with the ability to upgrade them for only 12pts per model into a 36" (So a loss of range) S8 Ap 2 (massive boost from the previous S4 Ap5) and you can take them in batteries of 5...these things will destroy infantry, tanks, and MC alike. General all purpose and they start at T7 with 2 wounds. More if you bring extra Grots. The Mek Gunz can also laugh at fliers with the (arguably) best AA gun in the game. The Traktors can take out a flier with very little effort due to forcing crash tests with every hit they make. Stupid good for stupid cheap.

Warbikers are easily replacing Nob Bikers in my army. They are insanely cheap now, can be in bigger squads which means more damage output, and you can take a Painboy on bike as an HQ, meaning the big selling point for Nob Bikers is not exclusive to them anymore. Yes, we lose a wound per model, but we get MORE bikes, meaning MORE shots. That's the key difference. I don't regret downgrading to normal bikers. I don't miss paying 500 points or more for only 6 or 7 Nob Bikers with all the fixings when I can get roughly 27 Warbikers for the same cost.

Deffkopters got cheaper in points and the coveted TL Rokkits are now free. Buggies got cheaper as well if you prefer those. Our great outflankers can be taken a little more gratuitously, giving us surprise attack options. Can't complain there.

Trukk Boyz still prove decent for mission games, especially with the Trukks becoming Objective Secured when they are taken as a Dedicated. Trukks also got cheaper by a few points. Every few points helps.

Mega Nobz, now coming by default with a character, are not as easily shooed off the board, since they can take boss poles and now benefit from the new mob rule. This is a HUGE boon, making Manz Missiles even more of an enticing option. Mega Nobz still wreck virtually everything they touch.

Tankbustas got cheaper, their rules got improved, and they are almost auto include now, making our Elite choices no longer just Mega Nobz.

Ork's biggest problem, in terms of competitive, is we have a rough time making a TAC list. Ork Units are so specialized. So it makes it tough to cram enough of everything we need in one list without some things becoming either useless or not taking enough of the things we needed for specific enemies.

Mogrok's Bossboyz is a favourite formation of mine.

Lots of HQs to play with.

acidlemon wrote:
Just was wondering what ways orks generate highly competative armies these days. Yes you probably won't see them win NOVA or something but I am having a little bit of a hard time building a strong list for them. Any insight would be very helpful!

Check this out. http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-ork-bowling-ball.html

Orks are so dang fun. Everyone wins...everyone...when an ork was involved. =)

 Jancoran wrote:

acidlemon wrote:
Just was wondering what ways orks generate highly competative armies these days. Yes you probably won't see them win NOVA or something but I am having a little bit of a hard time building a strong list for them. Any insight would be very helpful!

Check this out. http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-ork-bowling-ball.html

Orks are so dang fun. Everyone wins...everyone...when an ork was involved. =)

It's really true though. The Ork player (typically) has a blast wrecking things, while the other player has a great time splatting Ork blood everywhere! It's hard to be salty on either side when gak WILL go boom every turn :p

My orks are sitting in a box with their new codex, waiting to be sold. That's what I think of competitive ork meta.

why would lay them for any reason other than the sheer joy? I know I can win more assuredly with other armies but I doubt itll be more fun.

darkcloak wrote:
My orks are sitting in a box with their new codex, waiting to be sold. That's what I think of competitive ork meta.

I get slightly confused by the idea of competitive meta. I mean if everyone wanted purely the most powerful, most likely to win army then there will be 1 build that due to current rules and codex's is the best - that is simply statistics.. Then everyone in tournaments in a WAAC environment should all be running the same thing

As with a tournie you cant tell what else will be there, so with that uncertainty you should then run the strongest possible list anyway. Then you can factor in that others will think the same and A) either gamble, run a list that isn't the number 1 list in an attempt to have a one up on players who will be running it, or B) run it anyway as everyone else will be.

Imagine if everyone who went to tournies all played the exact same serpent spam build? your then massively removing the factor of units and how they function from the equation of who wins. The player who then wins is the one who; A) probably goes first/which ever turn is preferred for that 'Competitive' list, B) the one who rolls well and C) the one who draws good objective cards and so forth. I know some people say that the fun they have is actually down to the fact it is WAAC, but imo, the difference between a WAAC pleasure and a pleasure for playing is this; WAAC you could go and simply play a game where two players roll a dice and the highest wins. By drastically limiting your choices within a codex to the 1 cheese unit you reduce the factors of variance within the game - which results in an increase in the effect of luck and who goes first; to me that is less 'competitive' than a environment in which everyone brings truly wild and varying lists.

Imo, tournaments that aim to limit spam/ increase variance of actual good generals - by this I mean someone who can actually make good decisions and put stuff in his favour through tactical use of units within scenarios outside of their typical comfort zone; and isn't simply rolling 10 * D6+1 dice every turn to calculate whether he is a winner.

D6 + 1 = 2!! your not a winner!
D6 + 1 = 5 Your a winner! Ding Ding Ding!

That being said, I think fluffy/fun games are way more competitive, because you are still trying to win, but just with something that isn't the best. It would be like if the goal in football was massive, you could score from half way with ease, you have the 'best' goal to play with. But if the goal was smaller, yes you've got a lower chance of 'winning' but in order to score and 'win' you have to be a 'better' player. Obviously that is a very simple analogy.

Being a better player... I'm being honest here... Does NOT seem to register asa goal in a very large segment of the 40K population.

It resonates with me a lot, as you can see in my blog, but I mean I dont even think any human can count how many times someone gets on Dakkadakka and says they won with a list that isn't an APPARENT juggernaut (read: contains a deathstar and assurances to make sure it gets to do its thing) and gets all kinds of grief for building a list in the "not Juggernaut" way.

Its a hilarious trend. I've outplayed people and lost. they knew it and I knew it. The list was probably a little to blame in those instances but that's how you figure out how to refine the list.

So if you LIKE the discovery process, 40K is pretty fun. If all you dwell on is losses... It's a hard road.

 Jancoran wrote:
So if you LIKE the discovery process, 40K is pretty fun. If all you dwell on is losses... It's a hard road.

Absolutely! Too many people field the best list they can find on the Internet, loose, complain the army isn't competative, then put them in a box with the codex waiting to be sold.

It's one of the saddest downsides to the Internet in this hobby. Things just don't get field tested. New players just look at forums like this, take the "best internet list" and think that's all you need. Tragic loss follows and it's all the Codex's fault.

The Ork codex is probably the only one in the game where every unit in it truly has a place on the battlefield. There are no auto-rejects, and no auto-includes. It's not an easy-mode force like Tau or Eldar, some skill is needed.

You know what both of you guys are right with the armies being made today. Like people look to forums and tournaments for meta and not their own gaming stores meta. I think that all armies can win and yes there are a some that are easier to use or win with than others but that doesn't mean they're bad. Orks are now one of the tougher armies to LEARN not play but learn and get a feeling for. They used to be an easy army because of the auto pilot LD with fearless by I find now that they need to be buffed or controlled with their LD. But yeah you guys hit this right on the head. Awesome posts!

darkcloak wrote:
My orks are sitting in a box with their new codex, waiting to be sold. That's what I think of competitive ork meta.

Do you literally *only* play tournament games?

Ah im glad that it atleast touches base with some of you

I ran a single kan and single dread the other day (because they are the only walkers ive made for my walker list so far), they died horribly and fast to a IG autocannon/las or whatever team, Initially i thought, just dont run em, take bikes or more vehicles, but then I thought, 'no, stick it out' so my next list now includes 3 kanz and a dread.

Jancoran: im glad you've felt like a better player and lost, because in real life sometimes armies know they cant win, but a good general will still give the enemy hell. I mean if i ever go to a tournie I think im gona run something so abstract and orkish just to see the look on their face. They've probably play tested against all those Net lists out there to ensure they have a reasonable list, then they come face to face with SAG spam, or a complete list of pure KMK's how about the look on mr serpent spams face when you whack out your 40 tracktor kannons?

When I play my fluffy lists I aim to win, little disheartening when I dont, but you learn way more from a loss than a win, with a win you discount most of your mistakes and give them an air that actually they did contribute and they weren't as big as you thought. When you lose you critically analyze almost every move and workout what you should have done in each situation.

Solar Shock wrote:

When I play my fluffy lists I aim to win, little disheartening when I dont, but you learn way more from a loss than a win, with a win you discount most of your mistakes and give them an air that actually they did contribute and they weren't as big as you thought. When you lose you critically analyze almost every move and workout what you should have done in each situation.

If i had a true-meter device, it'd show 100%.

Solar Shock wrote:
Ah im glad that it atleast touches base with some of you

Jancoran: im glad you've felt like a better player and lost, because in real life sometimes armies know they cant win, but a good general will still give the enemy hell. I mean if i ever go to a tournie I think im gona run something so abstract and orkish just to see the look on their face. They've probably play tested against all those Net lists out there to ensure they have a reasonable list, then they come face to face with SAG spam, or a complete list of pure KMK's how about the look on mr serpent spams face when you whack out your 40 tracktor kannons?
.

I'm good at 40K. Very good. As an example, i am going to a Highlander Tournament on Saturday and just to spice it up, I had one of my potential opponents both choose my faction AND my list. Lol. That's how confident I am, for better or worse.

I will be doing my damnedest to overcome that disability and I think playing that way and getting a 4-1 mark will say more about me than a 5-0 mark using an army I know very well. NOT WINNING the tournament isnt going to make me sad because my paint isn't very good. So I'm going in to see how high I can place, given adversity and I like it. The loss won't sting that much, I don't think, unless the guy is just a jerk. and who goes in assuming that will be the case?

I promise you: no loss is going to make me suddenly drop the army i was playing. If I go 0-3 I wouldn't even consider it. It's a dice thing and sometimes bad things happen to good dice. Sometimes you learn something. And sometimes you really did get outplayed. You cant maintain laser like focus in every game. Some days you just don't have it.

Orks are just a great codex and they were before this one. As was said, nothing in it sucks. Nothing. You can use the whole codex if you want to. Just don't try to play it like a Space Marine army. So far as I have seen, TONS of people stop playing Tau Empire because they heard the CODEX was strong and they wanted in on the wins but they quit because it just wont DO what Space Marines do. If you expect orks to do anything but orky things then reset your sights and discover new ways to play it. I find that part of the game rewarding.

Great point about all the models being good and having their purpose, I think this is why I am having trouble finalizing my list for a small tourney tomorrow.

Also, is the Supplement important to being competitive? I kind of wish I had 2 more BWs to be able to run the 5 wagon list. But what I am really wondering if it is worth it to take the WAAAGH detachment (the deepstrike one) just to be able to access the Orkimedes Gifts.

That mega force field, the big boss pole, and even the ultimate cybork all look pretty useful. But I am going to be facing a tyranid army AND an AV13 necron list with wraiths and spiders (armor eating ones)

I'm thinking about running this list. The terrain is supposed to be pretty light so the Mega field will give my 8 lootas a 4+ save no matter where they are deployed. Against the tyranids I may try to get the deepstrike to come in behind the lines and take out the guy's Zoans.

Warboss, Ultimate Cybork, pk, bp, bike
Big Mek w/ shokk attack gun, bp, Mega Field
Mek
Mek
Mek w/ megablasta
2x Battlewagons w/ ram, and 2 big shootas
2x 19 shoota boyz, nob, pk, bp
8 lootas
5 warbikers, nob, PK
Dakkajet w/ extra supa shoota and flyboss
5 tankbustas w/ 3 bomb squigs in trukk, ram
Snikrot formation
Boss Snikrot, 5 kommandos, 2 burnas
1598

The other option would be the 3x battlewagon list with regular nobs. I think regular nobs can still do well.

Warboss, big bosspole, pk, ‘eavy
Painboy
3x battlewagons w/ ram 1 big shoota
2x 20 shoota boyz, nob, pk, bp
5 nobs, ‘eavy armor, kombi skorcha, PK
6 warbikers, nob, pk
8 lootas
Dakkajet w flyboss and 3rd supa
5 tankbustas, 3 squig bombs in trukk w/ ram
1605

 Icculus wrote:
Great point about all the models being good and having their purpose, I think this is why I am having trouble finalizing my list for a small tourney tomorrow.

Also, is the Supplement important to being competitive? I kind of wish I had 2 more BWs to be able to run the 5 wagon list. But what I am really wondering if it is worth it to take the WAAAGH detachment (the deepstrike one) just to be able to access the Orkimedes Gifts.

That mega force field, the big boss pole, and even the ultimate cybork all look pretty useful. But I am going to be facing a tyranid army AND an AV13 necron list with wraiths and spiders (armor eating ones)

I'm thinking about running this list. The terrain is supposed to be pretty light so the Mega field will give my 8 lootas a 4+ save no matter where they are deployed. Against the tyranids I may try to get the deepstrike to come in behind the lines and take out the guy's Zoans.

Warboss, Ultimate Cybork, pk, bp, bike
Big Mek w/ shokk attack gun, bp, Mega Field
Mek
Mek
Mek w/ megablasta
2x Battlewagons w/ ram, and 2 big shootas
2x 19 shoota boyz, nob, pk, bp
8 lootas
5 warbikers, nob, PK
Dakkajet w/ extra supa shoota and flyboss
5 tankbustas w/ 3 bomb squigs in trukk, ram
Snikrot formation
Boss Snikrot, 5 kommandos, 2 burnas
1598

The other option would be the 3x battlewagon list with regular nobs. I think regular nobs can still do well.

Warboss, big bosspole, pk, ‘eavy
Painboy
3x battlewagons w/ ram 1 big shoota
2x 20 shoota boyz, nob, pk, bp
5 nobs, ‘eavy armor, kombi skorcha, PK
6 warbikers, nob, pk
8 lootas
Dakkajet w flyboss and 3rd supa
5 tankbustas, 3 squig bombs in trukk w/ ram
1605

Definitely dont need the supplement to be competitive, no.

I like the Mek list more but might suggest a Wierdboy be added for Psyker defense in place of one of the Meks if you can. One for each Boyz squad would be cool.

I think you have 1 too many meks in the first list, its 1 per HQi thought, but other than that, I found lootas pretty darn useful last necron game i played, same with tankbustas, bustas are great for doubling them out to prevent the re-animation, and lootas provide some nice high str fire for whittling down wraiths. Although both your lists are pretty close,

A potential point, id stick with regular dex, for either DLS or da finkin cap, I think bringing the big mek with shokk and MFF seems like a lot of points for giving only your lootas a 4++ save, almost 9 points a model. Id keep the mek, drop the MFF, grab the painboy over, run the standard dex FOC, although you'd need another troops choice :/ but either way I think the 75 pts for the MFF could be spent better elsewhere, same as cybork.

got any other units? as both lists are close, so not much to think of.

yeah there was one too many meks in that first list haha.

Anyway. I also own
2 deffkoptas
3 warbuggies
a looted wagon
3 killa kans
1 deff dread
5 burnas
2 trukks

I think my big problem is that I want to run 3 HQs but I only have like 40 boys. So i would have to split up one 20-man squad in to two 10-man squads in trukks.

That would give me 20 boyz in a wagon, 10 boyz in trukk, 10boyz in trukk, and then if I wanted to field the other wagon I could put the tankbustas in there or the nobs.

In higher points game orkz feel like they really need more than one CAD.

-Too many things are just 100% Better with a KFF and Painboy, or Mega Armored HQ and Painboy.
-The Heavy Slot has our good transport and our best fire support.
-Tankbustas really need a Wagon to succeed (See Heavy Support Trouble) or have to act disposable in small numbers in trukks (Then you get trouble with any AV based opponent prioritizes them and then takes there chances with your Power Klaws.)

Our one shining point in Single CAD seems like Warbikes. They free up the HS nicely and have the saves handy to not necessarily need an HQ.

Once a competitive meta opens up multiple CADs or even a formation you can have the Battlewagon formation which can solve most troubles with our stuffy heavy support and allow you to have a nice dakkabase with transports for a few troops and tankbustas then completed with your flavor supporting fire, Lootas, Mek Gunz, or Flash Gitz.

Of course once you have a formation you could have the tide. A slow moving dice-check against your opponents guns in edition dakka. Certainly the best unit for our HQ's to stand in and a threat large enough to protect any supporting fire you'd like to bring. Suceptiple to problems in rules like not having a character close enough for a challenge, having a ton of boyz get wiped out in CC at higher Initiative and then not being able to maintain base to base for combat after bumping in at initiative 2. Still nobody brings the kind of CC dedicated units it takes to do something like that. (Also don't let someone bury a walker in a side that doesn't have a powerklaw, you might get stuck having nobody in range to krump it.) Things like this can trip up the tide and you have to be wary of it in a competitive game.

yeah they really do need multiple HQs. The fact that they made the painboy an HQ kind of sucks. They should have done the Painboy the way they did the Mek, You can have one for each HQ choice or if you want to you can take one as their own HQ slot.

Passing out that much FNP would solve alot of my problems.

Of course I was working on the Nob Biker deathstar unit.

Bikerboss, PK, BP, Big Bosspole
Big mek, Mega force field, warbike
Painboy, warbike, grot orderly
3+ Nob bikers with a few PKs.

fearless, 4+ armor, can jink for 4+ cover or 3+ if turbo, 4++, FNP, lots of wounds and powerklaws. But then you have all 3 HQs in one unit and end up spending over 500 points on it.

 Rismonite wrote:
In higher points game orkz feel like they really need more than one CAD.

-Too many things are just 100% Better with a KFF and Painboy, or Mega Armored HQ and Painboy.
-The Heavy Slot has our good transport and our best fire support.
-Tankbustas really need a Wagon to succeed (See Heavy Support Trouble) or have to act disposable in small numbers in trukks (Then you get trouble with any AV based opponent prioritizes them and then takes there chances with your Power Klaws.)

Our one shining point in Single CAD seems like Warbikes. They free up the HS nicely and have the saves handy to not necessarily need an HQ.

Once a competitive meta opens up multiple CADs or even a formation you can have the Battlewagon formation which can solve most troubles with our stuffy heavy support and allow you to have a nice dakkabase with transports for a few troops and tankbustas then completed with your flavor supporting fire, Lootas, Mek Gunz, or Flash Gitz.

Of course once you have a formation you could have the tide. A slow moving dice-check against your opponents guns in edition dakka. Certainly the best unit for our HQ's to stand in and a threat large enough to protect any supporting fire you'd like to bring. Suceptiple to problems in rules like not having a character close enough for a challenge, having a ton of boyz get wiped out in CC at higher Initiative and then not being able to maintain base to base for combat after bumping in at initiative 2. Still nobody brings the kind of CC dedicated units it takes to do something like that. (Also don't let someone bury a walker in a side that doesn't have a powerklaw, you might get stuck having nobody in range to krump it.) Things like this can trip up the tide and you have to be wary of it in a competitive game.

That was what almost defeated my Tide once. A blood angel player dropped two dreads down and charged my Tide. One end didn't have any PKs in it, so I lost a couple Boyz a turn until my Klaws could get down that way and assist. Luckily, I had a Trukk full of Nobz in reserve who came on board the next turn with a couple PKs and Big Choppas, zoomed in, jumped out, then the following turn, proceeded to rip the dread appart to free up the back end of the tide.

I was hoping the same thing for Painboy HQs, in regards to Icculus' above post. But, honestly...i think it might have been TOO good. 3 slotless FNP for 50pts that can also ride bikes and use bosspoles? Pretty nasty and a bit too good to throw around willy nilly.

And for Biker Star, I really think that the Nob Bikers are a bit...retired. Warbikers cost so much less, and they they may not get as many PKs, but you get so many more attacks, more bodies, and generally more killy.

My favorite units that feel the most "dangerous" in the orks codex are:
Mig Mek with the enormous gun.

Flash Gitz inside an AV 14 Wagon

Meganobz

Those three are scary and if you were really looking to win some games and play the hard role, you could do SOOOOO much worse than to try those outin an army.

Jancoran wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
Great point about all the models being good and having their purpose, I think this is why I am having trouble finalizing my list for a small tourney tomorrow...Also, is the Supplement important to being competitive? ...the big boss pole...

Definitely dont need the supplement to be competitive, no.

Jancoran wrote:My favorite units that feel the most "dangerous" in the orks codex are:
Mig Mek with the enormous gun... Flash Gitz inside an AV 14 Wagon... Meganobz. Those three are scary and if you were really looking to win some games and play the hard role, you could do SOOOOO much worse than to try those outin an army.

Jancoran, most of the things you've said i agree with 100%, but the things i don't agree with are really annoying.

I haven't seen many lists in the competitive scene which uses JUST the Ork codex. Perhaps I'm just looking at the wrong tournaments. But the 3 lists I've seen were:
1. Ork Warbikers (lead by Zhadsnark for scouting) - typically a single CAD list
2. The Green Tide formation (which is only accessable via the Supplement)
3. The Bullyboyz formation (5 units of Meganobz) transporting them all in trukks.
Points 2 and 3 have easy/instant access to fearless via the formation rule (as per pt.3) and the big bosspole (in pt.2).

An artillery list, as much as i love the idea, struggles against Tau and Eldar who can out shoot them. Is there a golden "only Ork Codex" list which you have found to be competitive?

If yes, then you really need to look up one of the challenges on Dakkadakka. Make a list of Orks for 7th ed, show that you can win in a competitive scene 3 out of 4 times (i think? this isn't my challenge) then you'll get a stompa. There's a battle report just now in the forum which talks about it.

As for Flash Gitz, I've never been impressed with them. There are far better heavy support options which I would take over it. They, unfortunately, fall under the limited slot issue.

What would you suggest is a good "competitive ork codex only" list? I've yet to see a success competitive ork list with Big Mek's SAG (I assume this is what you mean by "enormous gun"?

Sketchyfk wrote:

I haven't seen many lists in the competitive scene which uses JUST the Ork codex. Perhaps I'm just looking at the wrong tournaments. But the 3 lists I've seen were:
1. Ork Warbikers (lead by Zhadsnark for scouting) - typically a single CAD list
2. The Green Tide formation (which is only accessable via the Supplement)
3. The Bullyboyz formation (5 units of Meganobz) transporting them all in trukks.
Points 2 and 3 have easy/instant access to fearless via the formation rule (as per pt.3) and the big bosspole (in pt.2).

An artillery list, as much as i love the idea, struggles against Tau and Eldar who can out shoot them. Is there a golden "only Ork Codex" list which you have found to be competitive?

If yes, then you really need to look up one of the challenges on Dakkadakka. Make a list of Orks for 7th ed, show that you can win in a competitive scene 3 out of 4 times (i think? this isn't my challenge) then you'll get a stompa. There's a battle report just now in the forum which talks about it.

As for Flash Gitz, I've never been impressed with them. There are far better heavy support options which I would take over it. They, unfortunately, fall under the limited slot issue.

What would you suggest is a good "competitive ork codex only" list? I've yet to see a success competitive ork list with Big Mek's SAG (I assume this is what you mean by "enormous gun"?

I think we get what your saying, but in general I find the orks main dex is just too full of randomness for it to fall into the competitiveness catagory.
Take for example Flash gitz as already mentioned;

D6 AP. In general, due to the fact the outcome is too unpredictable most players will not take these competitively as it leaves too much chance to dice. However, had it been a straight AP2, but with a price hike on the unit cost to reflect this I could imagine them being run almost as an auto-include due to being able to threaten 2+'s from range.

This is something quite typical across the board with orks i feel. SAG's, zzap, bubble, smasha and so forth. Many 'competitive' players do not want to put their faith into something which they cannot control. So as you can see the formations and so forth that appear popular and most competitive are those that minimise these; greentide, removes the mob rule effectively with BBP, denies alot of the board and in general is a very control centred list. While still pretty orky, its not random orky. Bully boyz. Well thats just a very deadly setup that is given fearless. Manz are pretty killy and your given 3 units of utter killy. They conform to the elitist end of orks to some extent.

Going off of another thread called 'reliability of hordes' which I commented in earlier.
Hordes off-set extreme rolls through number of rolls.
Elitest lists rely on never rolling those 1's in general. But when you consider that, his deathstar may completely ignore 1 turn of your shooting, say because you pumped 60 boyz of shootas into his draigostar, statistically you probably should have put like 2-3 wounds on him, yet in truth he saved all 3, as it only required a little shift above average.

So in this case, he has already off-set all your shooting with 3 rolls that statistically shouldn't have saved. Therefore; for an elitist army it is easier to start pulling ahead each turn as you only require a few rolls to be better than statistically average. whereas; as an ork player to achieve the same feat im probably looking at rolling 10-12 dice better than average.

Sketchyfk wrote:

Jancoran, most of the things you've said i agree with 100%, but the things i don't agree with are really annoying.

I haven't seen many lists in the competitive scene which uses JUST the Ork codex. Perhaps I'm just looking at the wrong tournaments. But the 3 lists I've seen were:
1. Ork Warbikers (lead by Zhadsnark for scouting) - typically a single CAD list
2. The Green Tide formation (which is only accessable via the Supplement)
3. The Bullyboyz formation (5 units of Meganobz) transporting them all in trukks.
Points 2 and 3 have easy/instant access to fearless via the formation rule (as per pt.3) and the big bosspole (in pt.2).

An artillery list, as much as i love the idea, struggles against Tau and Eldar who can out shoot them. Is there a golden "only Ork Codex" list which you have found to be competitive?

If yes, then you really need to look up one of the challenges on Dakkadakka. Make a list of Orks for 7th ed, show that you can win in a competitive scene 3 out of 4 times (i think? this isn't my challenge) then you'll get a stompa. There's a battle report just now in the forum which talks about it.

As for Flash Gitz, I've never been impressed with them. There are far better heavy support options which I would take over it. They, unfortunately, fall under the limited slot issue.

What would you suggest is a good "competitive ork codex only" list? I've yet to see a success competitive ork list with Big Mek's SAG (I assume this is what you mean by "enormous gun"?

Fair enuf. I borrowed my friends orks a while ago, the guy who ghot me into the hobby (he no longer plays). I built a list which is somewhere here on Dakkadakka and it got a lot of conversation. It had Zzap Guns, tons of Gretchen, 10 orks, 10 meganobz and buggies. I cant recall the list off the top of my head but that was the essential pieces. Warlord and of course the cool Bigmek cannon.

The list went 8-1. I lost at a top table with it, although the weird home brew mission was definitely a part of the equation. Still. 8-1 is pretty good. I know of no one who wouldnt accept that record as compelling just on its own. Then i had to return the orks.

So I mean, I guess i have to say that yes, i have used an ork list and had it do exceedingly well. The army I finally lost to was a necron/Ork Abomination, and it won the tournament so hey. Plus he's a really good General too, one I respect a lot.

scope the blog out for it or I will if I can find it, post it. There's no magic pill though. Even with a great list, you still gotta play on infinitely variable terrain and against nigh infinitely different armies and skill levels. So I cannot make any grandiose claims but the record stands up on its own two feet, i think.