Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I got a Necro/Warsphinx kit today, and want to know which is a better choice. The Necrosphinx certainly looks cooler, but I want to know if its really worth it over the Warsphinx. It'll be used in an Undead Legions list, with a Terrorghiest as the only other big monster.

Warsphinges are the gak, T8 gives them the walk it up to any enemy infantry and watch them bounch off, fiery breath is a must though.

Agreed. The warsphinx is just brutal. The only thing better than the scenario above is supporting your warsphinx with a second warsphinx or bone giant. Even Ogres have to roll 6s to wound it.

The problem with the Necrosphinx is that because it cant march it cant make use of its fly special rule and also its heroic killing blow ability is super situational.

Edit: drank alot of ouzo and didnt read the undead leigons part. So maybe it can do a fly march now. I still haven't had a chance to flip though that book.

The necro can fly march, the thing is, why would you want single HKB attack to try and kill characters, when you can just drop a thundercrush on them for S:9 D3 wounds, which is much more reliable?

Does the Necro have ANYTHING over the Warsphinx, or is the Sphinx better in pretty much every way?

It's faster and like that's it.

 Krellnus wrote:
The necro can fly march, the thing is, why would you want single HKB attack to try and kill characters, when you can just drop a thundercrush on them for S:9 D3 wounds, which is much more reliable?

Except that the S9 is never in the first rank, unless you're up against ogres. Remember, thundercrush is only S9 under the template hole.

Remember the only condition on thundercrush is that it must touch my base, it doesn't limit how much of it can touch my base.

 Krellnus wrote:
Remember the only condition on thundercrush is that it must touch my base, it doesn't limit how much of it can touch my base.

You can't target yourself with it. And to get the template hole on a character, you'd have to do so.

If the template touches you it targets you, so you therefore cannot use a thundercrush attack at all.

The warsphinx and necrosphinx have fundamentally different roles.

Warsphinxes have more attacks, and gain even more from attacks that grant additional attacks. The thundercrush attack is also AMAZING against infantry...when it hits. Vanhels can help it do that.

The necrosphinx, on the other hand, is more situational. It's primarily a tarpit whose fly move can help it catch nasty units before they can cause trouble in your lines. It would be a good way to back up something like a BK bus, where your core infantry bricks will struggle to keep up to support the bus. It
s also decent at killing blowing cavalry and infantry characters.

So the question really is what do you want to do with it? The necro might be better at keeping up with the TG if you're running a fast general on a steed or flying mount. Lock it up with the sphinx then scream at it with the TG. Alternatively, a warsphinx could be a good way of dealing with elite infantry in a list that otherwise can struggle with them.
'

Interchangeable with the use of Magnets?

 trollmeat wrote:
Interchangeable with the use of Magnets?

I considered that, but since I didn't have any magnets or GS available to me, and wont for some time, I ended up using a slightly different method of making it count as either sphinx:

The best of both worlds? Multi-beast?

 Krellnus wrote:
T why would you want single HKB attack to try and kill characters, when you can just drop a thundercrush on them for S:9 D3 wounds, which is much more reliable?

Whilst i agree the war kitty is by far the better choice, its stomp attack is a template and therefore, assuming you can hit an enemy character with it, they would get a look out sir from it.

 mixer86 wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:
T why would you want single HKB attack to try and kill characters, when you can just drop a thundercrush on them for S:9 D3 wounds, which is much more reliable?

Whilst i agree the war kitty is by far the better choice, its stomp attack is a template and therefore, assuming you can hit an enemy character with it, they would get a look out sir from it.

With light magic and HKB, the Necrocat has awesome potential. It's a way to keep Nagash/KFA in check, in an army that otherwise struggles to do so.

I think both are good.

The Necrosphinx can't march, but its still M10. Its easy to get in a flanking position.

The Warsphinx is a front line combat unit, the Necrosphinx is a flanking unit. Its also good at taking out other monsters, just watch out for Giants.

 mixer86 wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:
T why would you want single HKB attack to try and kill characters, when you can just drop a thundercrush on them for S:9 D3 wounds, which is much more reliable?

Whilst i agree the war kitty is by far the better choice, its stomp attack is a template and therefore, assuming you can hit an enemy character with it, they would get a look out sir from it.

That only applies to shooting template attacks, a thundercrush attack is a close combat attack and not a shooting one.

This is an interesting question, and comes up reasonably often. The two monsters share a kit, and much of their statlines (especially the T8, which defines them), but they have different battlefield roles as noted by others. You use the Warsphinx as a combat unit, running it into enemy infantry blocks and crushing them with a truly remarkable number of dice rolls. It can also do surprisingly well against Mournfang and other Monstrous Cavalry, as it has enough high strength attacks to put wounds on them, while they really struggle to do wounds back. The reason for this is that they tend to have few attacks but those attacks are high strength; the Toughness 8 makes a mockery of that. I consider it to be about half a combat block, i.e. two warsphinges (correct plural, though it looks odd) should add up to a Tomb Guard or Necropolis Knights unit in terms of killing power. One major benefit that it has over the Necrosphinx is that the thing rolls so many dice, especially when you "Go Nova" with the Thundercrush, Fiery Breath, Crew attacks and Thunderstomp all in one go, that you are much less likely to fluff your attacks and crumble to static combat res.

The Necrosphinx, by contrast, can't really take on big blocks by himself. The simple reason is that he doesn't kill them fast enough. Eventually they'll either nickel and dime him down (since 6s always wound), or he will crumble to static combat res after doing no wounds in a given phase. What he has, however, is a boatload of (H)KB, a powerful mental effect upon your opponents, who will always picture their general pierced by its blades, and speed. Whether you use him in Undead Legions or straight Tomb Kings, the Necrosphinx provides nearly double the speed of a Warsphinx, and terrain/unit ignoring speed at that. I've found that simply flying him directly at my opponent's army on turn one, with a Desert Wind to hasten him on his way, prompts a near-panicked response. That same speed also allows him to get flank charges, or to position to crush enemy chaff / cavalry units, with far greater ease than the rest of the Tomb King army, which tends to go in for huge unwieldy bricks of units (thanks to chariot bases). Games Workshop depicts him as a peerless monster hunter, which is kind of true, though not for the reasons that they say. Basically, unless you fight a Giant (or, horror of horrors, get charged by an Ancient Stegadon), few monsters actually have Strength of 7+. This means that they just can't wound it, as they will, usually, have about 5 attacks at strength 6 or something. So they simply scratch the paint. Meanwhile your Strength 5 attacks are probably wounding on 5s, and that single strength 10 attack can also do some damage, even if the HBK never goes off. Saying that though, I once had the HBK attack trigger twice in a row against a Frost Phoenix - my opponent passed his first ward save, but not the second. Result. So you can tarpit and grind down enemy monsters. As I mentioned above though, don't get into fights with Giants - their special table has some pretty horrible results on it. Oh, and Treemen have some kind of Init-test-or-die effect, which is pretty sad for a Sphinx.

The other two purposes to which you can put a Necrosphinx are to hunt down enemy chaff (which he does pretty well, unless they have poison, like Warlocks) or killing enemy characters. Cavalry units, even heavy or monstrous ones, are pretty good targets for a Necrosphinx as they again lack the S7 or weight of dice needed to kill it. My point above about the Warsphinx and Mournfang applies here equally. You can also use a Necrosphinx as a fairly hilarious assassin, flying him into your enemy's big combat unit and killing his BSB, which can totally swing battles against some opponents. I did that to a Beastman Gor Horde once, and it made my opponent's life much more difficult. This is usually more likely to work on BSBs and Wizards, as combat Lords have too many defences and wounds to guarantee killing them before you get pulled down by the unit. You can get lucky and tie this unit up for a turn or two as well, but generally big hordes and whatnot just throw too many dice out and so the Necrosphinx won't survive for long. But either way, keep this in mind as an option - exchanging 225 points for your enemy's primary caster or his BSB (each of whom will cost about 200+ points each anyway) is an extremely worthwhile trade if it then allows the rest of your army to get an advantage.

I only own one of each, though I just got a second Warsphinx, so I've rarely had a change to see them in pairs. I've seen that some people take great pleasure out of using two Necrosphinges to guard a flank, and it certainly seems that two together might really terrorise enemy cavalry units. But that would be too many points out of Rare to allow you more than a Casket, and many people prefer the ideal of two catapults instead. One mantra that I've seen before on the TK forum (khemri.net) is: "If you have one, make it a Necrosphinx; if you have two, make them Warsphinges". This alludes to the fact, as I noted above, that a Warsphinx is (more so than the Necrosphinx) effectively half of a combat block; taking two, and especially then throwing them into the same unit, makes them an integral part of your battleline.

If you fancy a read, I've got battle reports that feature my Warsphinx and Necrosphinx, which might show you some of the uses (and potential failings) of the two. Either way, always be sure to avoid cannons, poison and Warriors of Chaos Characters, all of which will kill a Sphinx dead faster than you can blink, and remember to cackle loudly as you destroy those who dare to stand against the might of Khemri!

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 mixer86 wrote:

 Krellnus wrote:
T why would you want single HKB attack to try and kill characters, when you can just drop a thundercrush on them for S:9 D3 wounds, which is much more reliable?

Whilst i agree the war kitty is by far the better choice, its stomp attack is a template and therefore, assuming you can hit an enemy character with it, they would get a look out sir from it.

With light magic and HKB, the Necrocat has awesome potential. It's a way to keep Nagash/KFA in check, in an army that otherwise struggles to do so.

Are you kidding? It has ONE HKB attack, that is only WS4. And Nagash/KFA get 4++ against it. The chances of it actually doing anything are infinitesimal. KFA also autowounds and multiwounds, so would blow through that guy in a turn. Nagash is S7 and can have HKB as well. The necrosphinx also has gak initiative so both enemies will strike first and probably blow through it before it even gets to strike. And even if you've buffed it with light magic (which, given the short range, is harder than you'd think) it still probably won't do squat to either model before it gets pulverized.

The necrosphinx is primarily a psychological tool, in that it's bark is WAY scarier than its bite. It's basically just a spirit host that's vulnerable to cannons and costs over 200 points out of your very tight rare selection.

Yes, it only has 1 HKB attack. But all of its other attacks do have regular KB IIRC.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:


The necrosphinx is primarily a psychological tool, in that it's bark is WAY scarier than its bite. It's basically just a spirit host that's vulnerable to cannons and costs over 200 points out of your very tight rare selection.

In TK yes, in Undead Legions however it can march fly for 20" which gives it much more use.

Warsphinx hands down.

in just TK smiting = 5 more attacks, granted it heals 1 wound per cast now, which is pretty cool. It does such a great job eating elite units that would blend, your skellies or tg.

The necro has been awful for me over the years, and is not currently in any of my ul plans.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, it only has 1 HKB attack. But all of its other attacks do have regular KB IIRC.

Which doesn't help it a lick against KFA or Nagash. As has been said by me and other TK players above, the only benefit of the HKB is psychology. The necrosphinx is big and scary, and the CHANCE of HKB can influence how players react. Players who don't know better, that is.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, it only has 1 HKB attack. But all of its other attacks do have regular KB IIRC.

Which doesn't help it a lick against KFA or Nagash. As has been said by me and other TK players above, the only benefit of the HKB is psychology. The necrosphinx is big and scary, and the CHANCE of HKB can influence how players react. Players who don't know better, that is.

Which is where Light magic comes into play. WS10, I10 makes that a major threat.

Well I would kinda hope that Nagash could survive a Necrosphinx attack. At 1000 point he'd better not be likely to die to a monster less than 1/4 his point cost.

The Necrosphinx isn't meant to kill things like Nagash, he's meant to beat up infantry with flank charges. he can also carve up elite infantry too. And if you do happen to be in melee with a character he's got KB to make them nervous.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, it only has 1 HKB attack. But all of its other attacks do have regular KB IIRC.

Which doesn't help it a lick against KFA or Nagash. As has been said by me and other TK players above, the only benefit of the HKB is psychology. The necrosphinx is big and scary, and the CHANCE of HKB can influence how players react. Players who don't know better, that is.

Which is where Light magic comes into play. WS10, I10 makes that a major threat.

No it doesn't. It's ONE attack, that still has to hit, and HKBs 1/6th of the time, and both KFA and Nagash have a 4++ against it. That's even assuming you can get these buffs off (any player worth his salt will see what you're trying to do and dispel/scroll them both), that they're within range (12" is very short), and that you can even catch KFA/Nagash in the first place.

Either model will also insta-gib the sphinx if they survive long enough to whack at it.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, it only has 1 HKB attack. But all of its other attacks do have regular KB IIRC.

Which doesn't help it a lick against KFA or Nagash. As has been said by me and other TK players above, the only benefit of the HKB is psychology. The necrosphinx is big and scary, and the CHANCE of HKB can influence how players react. Players who don't know better, that is.

Which is where Light magic comes into play. WS10, I10 makes that a major threat.

No it doesn't. It's ONE attack, that still has to hit, and HKBs 1/6th of the time, and both KFA and Nagash have a 4++ against it. That's even assuming you can get these buffs off (any player worth his salt will see what you're trying to do and dispel/scroll them both), that they're within range (12" is very short), and that you can even catch KFA/Nagash in the first place.

Either model will also insta-gib the sphinx if they survive long enough to whack at it.

A S7 Banishment has about the same chance of killing Nagash than the Necrosphinx. Yet you praise one and dismiss the other.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

A S7 Banishment has about the same chance of killing Nagash than the Necrosphinx. Yet you praise one and dismiss the other.

Yeah...because failing to cast banishment doesn't mean throwing 200 some odd points down the drain. It's also more likely to chip at least a couple wounds, which Nagash will have to spend spell dice to heal, while the necrosphinx probably does only a single wound then gets cut to ribbons. And you can just try and cast Banishment again next phase.

PirateRobotNinjaofDeath wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

A S7 Banishment has about the same chance of killing Nagash than the Necrosphinx. Yet you praise one and dismiss the other.

Yeah...because failing to cast banishment doesn't mean throwing 200 some odd points down the drain. It's also more likely to chip at least a couple wounds, which Nagash will have to spend spell dice to heal, while the necrosphinx probably does only a single wound then gets cut to ribbons. And you can just try and cast Banishment again next phase.

A S7 banishment also sets you back far more points. The level 4 should cost you the about the same as a necrosphinx if you build it correctly. And the 3 level 1s. The necrosphinx has really come into it's own.

As it stands, you have a 50% chance to hit nagash, 16.7% to HKB him and then a 50% chance for him to ward it. That's a 29% chance of killing him.

A S7 banishment, on average, needs 4 dice to go off. Nagash has a 52.5%(roughly) chance of stopping you. Then you have a 31.82% chance of rolling enough wounds to kill him. Then he has a 30% of failing a ward post rerolls. That translates to a 19.4% chance of killing Nagash.


I rest my case.