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So, my BFF and regular playmate got an Imperial Knight for christmas and has been using it in every single battle since. I'm trying to tell him that i don't like playing against it, because I think it's cheese. What do you guys think?

If you don't want to play against it, then don't.

However, they're just big vehicles. Outflank its shield and melta it to death.

I've come to disdain the word "cheese" as it's warped into something that essentially equates to "a unit I don't like facing" but that's not any one in particulars fault.

Anyway, if you know that he will be bringing it every game then surely you can create a list to deal with it?

its hard to beat it at such low points.

also its kind of the entire army or a huge portion. So at such a small game once it dies the game is pretty much over.

 Ignatius wrote:
I've come to disdain the word "cheese" as it's warped into something that essentially equates to "a unit I don't like facing" but that's not any one in particulars fault.

Anyway, if you know that he will be bringing it every game then surely you can create a list to deal with it?

Yeah, but most heavy weapons I have are MEQ-units, which he destroys immediately. I usually do bring it down mid-game, but he has by then eaten away all of my Anti-Armour weaponry.

 Ignatius wrote:
I've come to disdain the word "cheese" as it's warped into something that essentially equates to "a unit I don't like facing" but that's not any one in particulars fault.

Anyway, if you know that he will be bringing it every game then surely you can create a list to deal with it?

Most armies likely can, but the overriding factor I've found is that IK's simply make the game far too predictable & boring in smaller games of 1500pts and under...

If you kill the Knight quickly, you effective win by default as you've nuked the biggest, angriest threat, and likely taken at least 25% of your opponent's army down in the process.
But if you fail to kill the Knight within a turn or two at most, it simply roflstomps it's way across your entire army with little effort.

Overall just makes for a really dull gaming experience and can leave you feeling like you just pointlessly wasted an hour or two.

edit: Derp.... I merged two topics together in my head :|

I play Necrons, and I even don't like facing IKs in low points, granted I've never faced one. But I'll keep it that way, unless it's like, a 2000 point game. And even then, meh.

If you don't wanna fight it, don't fight it. You have that right.

It depends to an extent what scenarios you're playing, (and what army)

if it's simple kill the opponent with little terrain on the table it's not going to be fun

if you're mixing things up try basically ignoring the knight and killing everything else (he won't have much compared to you) meaning you should be able to outscore him on objectives etc

Is there any way that you can play with more points? Single Knights get a bit more manageable at higher point levels.

Your friend has a new shiny center piece model that he's/she's excited to play with. So give them a bit of lee way for the time being I'd say. Maybe ask to use it a game or two.

If it becomes a problem where they continue to use it for a long time I'd just bring it up with them and see if they will stop using it.

 Ignatius wrote:
Is there any way that you can play with more points? Single Knights get a bit more manageable at higher point levels.

Your friend has a new shiny center piece model that he's/she's excited to play with. So give them a bit of lee way for the time being I'd say. Maybe ask to use it a game or two.

If it becomes a problem where they continue to use it for a long time I'd just bring it up with them and see if they will stop using it.

Well, we're two 13 year olds, the largest playable force I can field is 1800 points. He's been saving money sicne his childhood, selling his old Nintendo DS and stuff like that to buy tons of DA stuff.

What a single IK?

It might be fine if you let your opponent know that such a thing will be there and to not leave there anti tank at home. since invalidating half an army in a friendly game is pretty waactastic.

 Desubot wrote:
What a single IK?

It might be fine if you let your opponent know that such a thing will be there and to not leave there anti tank at home. since invalidating half an army in a friendly game is pretty waactastic.

I'm just going to quote myself here...

my BFF and regular playmate got an Imperial Knight for christmas and has been using it in every single battle since. I'm trying to tell him that i don't like playing against it, because I think it's cheese

Ah well then

A) Stop playing with him
B) Get more Anti tank
C) Quit and go find your self cute girl or boyfriend get a job and come back when you can afford more stuff.
D) Get your own Imperial knight and go make pew pew noises at each other.

Fight fire with fire.
Get your own Knight and have a good old "rock em' sock em' robots" fight.
I got it, you guys are only 13; money's tight. Maybe get out there and hustle and make some money.
Thanks for making me feel old, but when I was your age, I was mowing lawns, shoveling snow, washing cars, etc...It's amazing how much people will pay to avoid doing chores like those.

As for the games: The one thing you have going for you is predictability. You know he's got it, so use strategies to counter it.
Question: is it a Knight Errant or Paladin?

 Matthew wrote:
So, my BFF and regular playmate got an Imperial Knight for christmas and has been using it in every single battle since. I'm trying to tell him that i don't like playing against it, because I think it's cheese. What do you guys think?

you play renegade gaurd right? so do you have orders?

i dont know about points costs, but if you do then heavy weapon teams should solve the problem. mine got rinsed out to lascannon teams when i played gaurd with it. (when it was a paladin).
a legion rapier battery took it out in a single volley. dark angel veterans with meltabombs and power fists did it in CC on the second round after charging it. a wraithknight led it a merry dance around the battlefeild stripping hull points as it went and a WS got round the back.

the common theme of it's demise was having more than one threat to it at different points.
get round the shield and you'll have him worried and making mistakes.
don't try to take it in CC.

tricky to offer proper advice here because we don't know what you have available to you and i don't want to say "buy stuff to handle it" (like a flyer..)


any points cost below that and i'd agree, and even at that points cost i would be feeling a little bit guilty about it. it's going to properly break his heart when you start taking it out..

Dark Angels with Knight? It is not a cheese.

Can you use proxies? If you have legos you can made proxies from them and try different tactics.

Yeah, I wouldn't go so far as to call it cheese, but difficult, sure. If you're not prepared to handle it it really is up to you to make that clear but you also have to understand that your friend wants to escalate force in that way. Take active steps to build your army up in a way to keep the game fun for both of you. Cause I'll be happy to say it. Buy stuff to handle it.

I don't think it's cheese. Unfair, certainly, it's hard to be prepared for any heavy walker at the best of times, especially at 1500 or below.

My advice is to use Flyers (Valkryies are my favorite for this). Knights are awesome but cannot do a single thing VS flyers armed with Lascannons. Both big weapons are Blast Templates, the only other weapons he can shoot you with are Stubbers, and if he does that, he cannot split-fire his battle cannon or melta-cannon at another unit that turn.

The best part of this, is given the rest of his army will be around 700 pts after the knight, the chances he has dedicated anti-air weapons are slim to none, you then get to run around strafing everything to death

If you cannot get a Valk, or dont have one do not fear! Ask your friend if you can proxy 1 or 2 because you want to add one into your list but want to try it out before dropping £40 on one, which is a totally fair way to assess both its effectiveness and to see if it fits your playstyle.

If he is using it every game, and every game you bring some counters for it, then there is no problem.

Dropping a knight or 2 on someones fluffy list unexpectedly is a bit of a that guy move, but if you are expecting it, then 1 can be managed.

if you're playing guard toss a lascanon in each of your squads. they're actually pretty effective vs IKs.

I just had the distinct displeasure of facing 3 of the damn things in a 1850 pt game backed up by wyverns, blob guard and leman russ. Additionally he was using the experience rules and so they where rocking 3++ saves for their shields. 2 Errants and a Paladin. I know I will not accept playing a game against IK again as it was the same case of, I took them down but my army was shredded in doing it. One roll of a 6 is all it takes to drop your equivalently priced wraith knight on its ass with instant death.

Bloody Emperor, just say no. Playing gainst 3 can't be that much fun?

cheese? probably not. Pretty uncool? probably.

Knights have weak rear armour so if you can drop a melta squad behind them or something similar you should be able to make short work of them. Remember, he's spending 370 points on one model. if you can spend less then 370 points to take it out you're golden.

1000pts? Absolutely too much for that many points, I see people struggle against them at 1850 on a regular basis. When people have to design their armies around the possibility of facing them there is a clear issue.

If you are still building up your army and depending on what army you play you might want to add something that deals with that kind of armour.

By your posts it seems you play marines, just load up some combi melta sternguard in a drop pod and go nuts.

That and they have zero anti air, you may want to consider storm talons.

StonedDragons wrote:
I just had the distinct displeasure of facing 3 of the damn things in a 1850 pt game backed up by wyverns, blob guard and leman russ. Additionally he was using the experience rules and so they where rocking 3++ saves for their shields. 2 Errants and a Paladin. I know I will not accept playing a game against IK again as it was the same case of, I took them down but my army was shredded in doing it. One roll of a 6 is all it takes to drop your equivalently priced wraith knight on its ass with instant death.

if ALL his knights had 3++ saves with those rules I'd almost say his dice may have been cooked.

Welcome to die

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/641845.page

Experiment 626 wrote:

Most armies likely can, but the overriding factor I've found is that IK's simply make the game far too predictable & boring in smaller games of 1500pts and under...

If you kill the Knight quickly, you effective win by default as you've nuked the biggest, angriest threat, and likely taken at least 25% of your opponent's army down in the process.
But if you fail to kill the Knight within a turn or two at most, it simply roflstomps it's way across your entire army with little effort.

Overall just makes for a really dull gaming experience and can leave you feeling like you just pointlessly wasted an hour or two.

Experiment pretty much has the problem with a 370 point unit in a 1000 point game. It's not really any different with a Bloodthirster or any high point cost "favorite" MC. I mean, that's 37% of your points in 1 unit

You really have three options: take units that will on average win out on knights for a cheaper point cost -- like BA melta pods, take your own big bad MC, or take extremely durable units that a Knight has trouble with. An invisible deathstar, or go flyer. For 370 points you can have enough flyers to piss the hell out of him, and really, he has no effective way of killing them (assuming he hasn't gotten FW). All of these though, come down to predictable games that I don't particularly relish.

Of course, you guys could agree not to use titan type units in small point games, which is probably going to be a lot more fun. Or, raise the point limit.

I wish someone would take IK against me at 1000. If you know it's coming, it's extremely easy to list tailor, drop it turn 2 and then roll over the rest of his army.

Melta drop pods = dead knights.