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Although synapse is not an issue, a unit of five 'stealers is not a viable unit; it's too easy to take out five of them. Remember, genestealers are glass hammers.
Large broods are necessary to deal with overwatch and the fact genestealers cannot take flesh hooks thus assault last when charging into cover.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/08 18:36:30
I'm not sure what you have, but here are some suggestions.... 1) Get some shrouding, that could help your stealers survive while closing, 2) Get some Screens for them, I reccomend Hormagaunts. If they eat the Overwatch, the Stealers get to party.
Lictors look like a good fit as well, and I always want Zoeys. You are a little short vs AV, so adding in some Heavies or the like might help.
Adding in some Spores, or a Spore Field would also keep your foe busy while you close.. (Biovores?)
So try something like...Assault Group: Hormagaunts, x10 to 15, Zoey, Veno, Two Broods of Stealers, do that twice, then use Lictors and Mawlocs to sting the foe...?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/08 19:20:14
Although synapse is not an issue, a unit of five 'stealers is not a viable unit; it's too easy to take out five of them. Remember, genestealers are glass hammers.
Large broods are necessary to deal with overwatch and the fact genestealers cannot take flesh hooks thus assault last when charging into cover.
I have 45 stealers in total, how would you squad them up TGA?
I have two broodlords too - to fit in?
My plan was to outflank all the stealers so taking venoms etc is a waste?
Spores I lke that idea!
thanks guys
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
TheGreatAvatar wrote: Although synapse is not an issue, a unit of five 'stealers is not a viable unit; it's too easy to take out five of them. Remember, genestealers are glass hammers.
Large broods are necessary to deal with overwatch and the fact genestealers cannot take flesh hooks thus assault last when charging into cover.
IDK, I've found that MSU of genestealers can work against some armies because of target overload.
But I agree it is not optimal points-wise (as much as I wish it were).
I have been toying with using 3 tyrannocytes: one for a T'Fex (acid spray and esg), one for a Flyrant (w/ standard TLdev blw loadout), and one filled with 18 genestealers and a broodlord. That combination might get people's attention.
Although synapse is not an issue, a unit of five 'stealers is not a viable unit; it's too easy to take out five of them. Remember, genestealers are glass hammers.
Large broods are necessary to deal with overwatch and the fact genestealers cannot take flesh hooks thus assault last when charging into cover.
I have 45 stealers in total, how would you squad them up TGA?
I have two broodlords too - to fit in?
My plan was to outflank all the stealers so taking venoms etc is a waste?
Spores I lke that idea!
thanks guys
OP, I'm in the same boat. I have 60+ stealers and 3 broodlords. I am at a loss as to the best way to use them.
I'm definitely not doing screening either. In a competitive list, I am going to fit in as many flyrants as I can. Not enough points for screening units, no matter how cheap they are.
Right now I am torn between MSUs with no broodlord, and one big tyrannocyte stealer bomb loaded to the max (with a broodlord), dropping into my opponent's backfield. Surely that is something that will definitely get their attention!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/08/09 22:00:43
So a few things. First the list is illegal as you can't take an Allued Detachment with the same faction as your primary detachment. So take 2 CADs instead.
There's some pretty bad advice about stealers on here. If you're massing them (which is never going to be a competitive option) then MSU is the only option. Force your opponent to overkill small units. Absorb overwatch with one little unit so you can get in with another 2.
How to optimise the list? Well you're at 1560 at the moment by my maths. So I'd add 2 Venomthropes (single man units) and 2 Zoanthropes (again single man). That leaves enough for a Spore Field Formation. You should NEVER outflank stealers. Infiltrate them along with the spore field that puts 14 separate targets on the enemy lines during deployment. Ensure the stealers are within 12" of a Venomthrope and just over 12" of a Zoey or Flyrant. Turn one GtG from what should be 2+ cover everywhere. Then advance your Zoeys to get the Stealers up plow them forward 6" and do the same. Turn 2 you want to charge with as much as possible. Declare charges with stealer units that have taken casualties or Spore units first to absorb over watch then charge with your full health units. This also nets you 10 psychic dice to throw some Horrors and/or Paroxysms around to support this.
This works very similarly to Lictor shame (though not quite as good) and should do well at any semi competitive level.
FlingitNow wrote: So a few things. First the list is illegal as you can't take an Allued Detachment with the same faction as your primary detachment. So take 2 CADs instead.
There's some pretty bad advice about stealers on here. If you're massing them (which is never going to be a competitive option) then MSU is the only option. Force your opponent to overkill small units. Absorb overwatch with one little unit so you can get in with another 2.
How to optimise the list? Well you're at 1560 at the moment by my maths. So I'd add 2 Venomthropes (single man units) and 2 Zoanthropes (again single man). That leaves enough for a Spore Field Formation. You should NEVER outflank stealers. Infiltrate them along with the spore field that puts 14 separate targets on the enemy lines during deployment. Ensure the stealers are within 12" of a Venomthrope and just over 12" of a Zoey or Flyrant. Turn one GtG from what should be 2+ cover everywhere. Then advance your Zoeys to get the Stealers up plow them forward 6" and do the same. Turn 2 you want to charge with as much as possible. Declare charges with stealer units that have taken casualties or Spore units first to absorb over watch then charge with your full health units. This also nets you 10 psychic dice to throw some Horrors and/or Paroxysms around to support this.
This works very similarly to Lictor shame (though not quite as good) and should do well at any semi competitive level.
So it has to be double CAD or double Leviathan, or double whatever?
What about formations?
I'm not being a naysayer, but when did that rule hit, and where can I find it?
I'm new to this edition, so I may not understand your post.
It doesn't have to be double CAD it could be CAD and Leviathan you can mix and match detachments as you want. However the Allied Detachment has a specific restriction against it having the same faction as your primary detachment. This rule is on the Allied Detachment itself and has been there since 7th started.
broodlords are a must! you gotta land those 'horror' shots.
also, if you're on small units of genestealers, combine a few to make one large unit. they should be fine if they're locked in combat.
even if you do packs of 5, which I don't recommend (7-8 minimum) put a genestealer of each type in each brood; one with adrenal glands and one with toxin sacs. It'll increase their chances of being more viable against your opponent.
but yea, if you have two broodlords...with 3 hive tyrants, i'd make 3 huge packs of genestealers, and fill your other detachment with something like ripperswarms or mucolid spores to help control the battlefield.
when I play em, I give my broodlords AG and TS, and leave my genies bare. If you take out one pack of genies, that's enough points for adrenal glands for the other groups.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/11 11:20:12
poolatka wrote: broodlords are a must! you gotta land those 'horror' shots.
also, if you're on small units of genestealers, combine a few to make one large unit. they should be fine if they're locked in combat.
even if you do packs of 5, which I don't recommend (7-8 minimum) put a genestealer of each type in each brood; one with adrenal glands and one with toxin sacs. It'll increase their chances of being more viable against your opponent.
but yea, if you have two broodlords...with 3 hive tyrants, i'd make 3 huge packs of genestealers, and fill your other detachment with something like ripperswarms or mucolid spores to help control the battlefield.
when I play em, I give my broodlords AG and TS, and leave my genies bare. If you take out one pack of genies, that's enough points for adrenal glands for the other groups.
Sorry but what advantage do you get from a bigger unit? Stealers are a combat glass hammer. That type of unit needs to be MSU. Mixing in expensive unnecessary upgrades just compounds that.
For instance compare 1 unit of 20 vs 4 units of 5. Lets say your charging across the field at a shooting unit. Whch say averages 10 dead stealers a turn (something like Broadsides should easily manage that). 2 turns of firing should result in the entire 20 man squad being dead. It can at most kill 10 of the MSU stealers. The way statistics works is that you'll often under and over perform. So say they spoon it turn 1 and kill 3 then kill 17 turn 2 with some good dice. Still the 20 man unit is dead. Now the 5 men units have only taken 8 casualties and have a 2 man unit to absorb overwatch.
Likewise charge a unit stock full of flamers and your 20 man unit can get burnt alive leaving too few survivors to win combat. The MSU guys throw 5 bodies into the flames knowing 15 are going to be unscathed.
That's why you need broodlords, The Horror makes pinning test with a penalty of -2, if the unit goes to ground, no overwatch, safe charge, anyway, you charge other units not the one full of flamers.
I like larger units, because genestealers are not great at anything. They are not that fast, they have no shooting, a poor save and frankly they aren't that great at combat. You need the attacks to actually win a combat. Prolonged combat means GS die. I would prefer a screen, or have them in a tyrannocyte or come on in a corner outflanking where you're only going to get shot by one or two units. If you have to run them across the board or if you have them in min sized units they get shot to pieces and frankly you may get assaulted. 5 genestealers don't scare anyone. Shoot them with a min size unit and take the over watch and by then you may get assaulted and then wipe them out. Repeat with the next 5 man unit of genestealers. With only two mawlocs and HT in the army to provide support, what are you afraid of? My sisters and even my inquisition armies aren't afraid of this army and they don't shoot that well and don't fight that well.
FlingitNow wrote: It doesn't have to be double CAD it could be CAD and Leviathan you can mix and match detachments as you want. However the Allied Detachment has a specific restriction against it having the same faction as your primary detachment. This rule is on the Allied Detachment itself and has been there since 7th started.
Got it. Found the rule.
I really haven't used allies before, so I guess I never really looked at it close enough.
Thanks for the info!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/08/11 15:33:17
Why are people comparing a 20 man unit with a 5 man? Stealers are easy to kill. So you need MSU just like you do with DE. Big expensive units of stealers make great targets for your opponents. Why do you want to make your opponents decisions easy and why do you want him to get maximum value out of his firepower.
20 genestealers in 1 unit does no more damage in CC than 20 stealers in 4 units. It is just easier to kill and easier to deal with. Why do you want your army easier to kill and easier to deal with?
A few differing views so far on screening and unit size.
But can I take it most are in agreement to infiltrate rather than outflank? Fling, whats the negative to outflank? Just not having them on the board and getting a bad table edge roll?
I could potentially run a few groups of Hormies or Gargoyles as screens - I have 30 of each - any use or should I just stick to Stealer Rush and add some Venoms?
If I run MSU are Broodlords pointless?
thanks so far, its good food for thought.
Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be
By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.
The issue with outflank is that they don't all arruve at the same time. They don't arrive until turn 2 at the earliest whuch means no assault until turn 3 at the earliest and they provide no target saturation or hoard control until they do arrive.
How are you going to grab objectives turn 1. With Mawlocs also in reserve and Flyrants presumably up in the sky? Stealers not only grab midfield objectives with ObSec on turn 1, they also provide a massive no go wall across midfield making grabbing objectives difficult for your opponent. They also apply pressure, pressure that is difficult to deal with as all he can kill is 1 small unit at a time.
Every shot that is going at them is a shot not going at your Flyrants. Screening is not a great strategy for Nids as it bogs everything down and gives your opponent time. You need to put pressure on your opponent as early as possible with Nids. You don't have much early game damage output so you need pressure to help you through that part of the game.
FlingitNow wrote: Why are people comparing a 20 man unit with a 5 man? Stealers are easy to kill. So you need MSU just like you do with DE. Big expensive units of stealers make great targets for your opponents. Why do you want to make your opponents decisions easy and why do you want him to get maximum value out of his firepower.
20 genestealers in 1 unit does no more damage in CC than 20 stealers in 4 units. It is just easier to kill and easier to deal with. Why do you want your army easier to kill and easier to deal with?
I agree.
Lots of MSU genestealers create target overload for most armies, especially if there are a lot of flyrants and other MCs in the mix.
Though I have been considering a max unit of stealers w/ broodlord in a tyrannocyte to cause some havoc in the backfield, I am not yet sold on it, considering the cost.
But a bunch of MSU stealers could probably accomplish the same thing, and while expensive when spammed, is less vulnerable that one big blob, even with a broodlord, venomthrope support, or whatever.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/08/11 21:41:32
Not much to add, but I have had good luck using Hormagaunts as a screen. it is because they are so dang fast. So they don't bog down the units behind, and are just scarey enough to trick a foe into shooting them. With a Veno that gives your Stealers 3+ cover, and they can gtg.
Run a Synapse into range, and go to town. If the screen stays intact, they are OS in a normal CAD. I agree that Outflank is only usefull in small doses. About the only unit I obsessivly Outflank is Tervigon, with a Thorax hive.
I'm surprised to see a Genestealer list without the use of Manufactorum Formation. I would highly recommend that in addition to a Leviathan Detachment. Lose none of the Flyrants, gain defenses and early mobility for some denim bandits.
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What do you guys think of this? I threw in 2x3 Shrikes to accompany the HTs as they go forwards or to DS backfield and a brood of screening Hormies. However the Stealer count is now down to 35. Should you ever biomorph small Stealer broods?
I can't recommend it. The "issue" with Stealers is they cost too much, so making them more expensive is unlikely to work out well.
One Broodlord tick I soon see pulled is using Dominion, it gives a 6" bubble of Synapse, so the unit can pop up from gtg on it's own.
If they eat the Overwatch, the Stealers get to party. 
You are a little short vs 
If the screen stays intact, they are OS in a normal 
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