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Greetings all.

Now that the FW (experimental) rules have been out for a while, I'm interested in hearing how people are finding them. How are you running your Knights, and what are you supporting them with? I'm looking to run one alongside my daemons so I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

The Khorne one is EXCELLENT and the Nurgle one is alright. Ignore the other two though.

Remember that when you choose a mark,it becomes "Daemon of" from the Daemons codex. So nurgle gets defensive grenades and shrouded, slaanesh gets fleet +run speed, and Tzeentch gets re-roll saves on 1. With a grimoire on the field, the Tzeentch one is stupid insane.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Remember that when you choose a mark,it becomes "Daemon of" from the Daemons codex. So nurgle gets defensive grenades and shrouded, slaanesh gets fleet +run speed, and Tzeentch gets re-roll saves on 1. With a grimoire on the field, the Tzeentch one is stupid insane.

Source? Because the data sheet never say they get the "Daemon of" rules.

Deadza wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Remember that when you choose a mark,it becomes "Daemon of" from the Daemons codex. So nurgle gets defensive grenades and shrouded, slaanesh gets fleet +run speed, and Tzeentch gets re-roll saves on 1. With a grimoire on the field, the Tzeentch one is stupid insane.

Source? Because the data sheet never say they get the "Daemon of" rules.

It's not on the datasheet. It's in the CSM/Daemons codex.

 McNinja wrote:

Deadza wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Remember that when you choose a mark,it becomes "Daemon of" from the Daemons codex. So nurgle gets defensive grenades and shrouded, slaanesh gets fleet +run speed, and Tzeentch gets re-roll saves on 1. With a grimoire on the field, the Tzeentch one is stupid insane.

Source? Because the data sheet never say they get the "Daemon of" rules.

It's not on the datasheet. It's in the CSM/Daemons codex.

I meant your source if they officially gain the full "Daemon of" rules. There is contention against it because it says "Daemon Knight of" and there is no reference to use the CSM/CD codex to know what additional rules they get. As both a Marines/Daemons Chaos player I want them to get the full bonus package but I am not sure myself if they do.

Having been through this once already recently... Can we keep the rules talk out of the tactica? It's debatable and will quickly derail the thread. The OP is after experience of using the knight.

Yes please chaps... I don't consider that they get the full "Daemon of..." rules, and I'm surprised there's any contention, but there you go. For now I'm just interested in hearing how they're working out for you. I'm looking to add a Khorne errant to my daemons, supported by Fateweaver, heralds and screamers, and probably a CSM sorcerer with some Nurgle spawn (more board presence and a shot at invisibility/shrouding).

I've tried the Khorne one in a Daemonkin list and used an escort of flesh hounds to prevent melta guns from getting within melta range which worked pretty well. You could probably do something similar with screamers or hounds also in a Daemons list.

I'm going to try one out in a Daemons list too, for that army I'd maybe take the Tzeentch one to go for the 2++ reroll with Grimoire and Cursed Earth. I don't think you'd need an escort in that situation, probably best to push up into a central area for board control.

If any reference within their rules state "refer to codex -" it is assumed that any rule with said "refer" symbol also means you're gaining said benefits.

Last I checked if there is an asterix next to Daemon of ** like so, which requires you to look in your patroned dex, you gain said rules associated to your patroned god if you are required to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Correcting myself here, since the only asterix referring you to codex CSM or any codex for that matter is highlighted for the dirge Caster, there are no further benefits to gain from any codex rules wise.

If you are referring to the statements under each god, stating "is considered a Daemon aligned with X" that means for hatred purposes only.

Yes I'd be inclined to agree with that.

On topic though... Any decent lists including a knight floating around? I'm weighing up whether it's better to have the "buffability" of a daemon knight, or just have a CTA alliance to get a better knight (warden or crusader).

I would much rather ally 3 knights with my Chaos Marines as Come the Apocalypse Allies and deploy 12" away and never be 1" to trigger One eye open.

The daemon upgrade is nice but just so costly. I would much rather squeeze out points to get more Knights.

One Eye Open is 6"

 Vomikron Noxis wrote:
Yes I'd be inclined to agree with that.

On topic though... Any decent lists including a knight floating around? I'm weighing up whether it's better to have the "buffability" of a daemon knight, or just have a CTA alliance to get a better knight (warden or crusader).

I say buff-ability. Yes it's a little bit more expensive , but the Khorne Knight hits harder in melee, and with a single casting of Cursed Earth becomes much, much harder to take down than it's loyalist counterparts.

The added bonus of having an invul in CC is excellent. Especially with the ability to get it to 2++ with Grimore and cursed earth. It becomes only vulnerable to other D.

Ive had luck running them as Khorne, within a KDK dex consisting of pure War Machines. It's fun, they get the job done and in CC there isnt much that would kill them. The odd WK might blow you away but welcome to 40k and Eldar being the poor mans tactically fun army. They just gak on everything and anyone who cant outright deny D weapons at range.

On a side note, I have also had much luck bringing my Chaos Thunderhawk Gunship, but for some reason, no one wants to play with my Str D flyer.... I wonder why

 CrownAxe wrote:
One Eye Open is 6"

My bad. I what am I confusing 1" with?

either way, my knights are never 6" within my Chaos Marines.

Allies with "Real" Knights probably better but I really prefer to stay within a single codex or battle brother only. As has been said the Invulnerable save in CC is pretty cool too. Worth the points though? Depends on what you fight, seems a little over costed right now and may change when FW puts the full rules in print.

Also it comes down to if youre just looking for the superior options I wouldnt bother to play the CSM portion at all haha. Might as well go full Knights with Imperium allies.

Deadza wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

Deadza wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Remember that when you choose a mark,it becomes "Daemon of" from the Daemons codex. So nurgle gets defensive grenades and shrouded, slaanesh gets fleet +run speed, and Tzeentch gets re-roll saves on 1. With a grimoire on the field, the Tzeentch one is stupid insane.

Source? Because the data sheet never say they get the "Daemon of" rules.

It's not on the datasheet. It's in the CSM/Daemons codex.

I meant your source if they officially gain the full "Daemon of" rules. There is contention against it because it says "Daemon Knight of" and there is no reference to use the CSM/CD codex to know what additional rules they get. As both a Marines/Daemons Chaos player I want them to get the full bonus package but I am not sure myself if they do.

Forgeworld has been putting out emails saying to read it that way. They sent one to the ITC guys so they'll start playing it with that interpretation.


I feel like taking one with your CSM/Daemons is much better than CtA IK detachment. If nothing else, you have freaking Be'lakor putting Invis on it and Grim/Cursed Earth as said before. While more Knights is nice, I'd rather have more Synergy with the rest of the army.

When I used one, it was nurgle, it regened the 1 HP it lost, delt some decent damage, the defensive grenade gave me one more "gun" to shoot, so I could have a closer range target, just in case. (If you play Daemon of, that is)
It was a really big apoc game, and it was a bit overshadowed by a brass scorpion, which was my opponents #1 target.

I plan on bringing it with daemons in the future, so I can get a better feel for it.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
When I used one, it was nurgle, it regened the 1 HP it lost, delt some decent damage, the defensive grenade gave me one more "gun" to shoot, so I could have a closer range target, just in case. (If you play Daemon of, that is)
It was a really big apoc game, and it was a bit overshadowed by a brass scorpion, which was my opponents #1 target.

I plan on bringing it with daemons in the future, so I can get a better feel for it.

How do you think it compares to the Brass Scorpion? I haven't used or seen either yet, though I'm highly considering putting one on the table in the future, especially if the "supposedly forthcoming" Chaos books don't have anything else to deal with the mass GC/SHW influx.

Requizen wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
When I used one, it was nurgle, it regened the 1 HP it lost, delt some decent damage, the defensive grenade gave me one more "gun" to shoot, so I could have a closer range target, just in case. (If you play Daemon of, that is)
It was a really big apoc game, and it was a bit overshadowed by a brass scorpion, which was my opponents #1 target.

I plan on bringing it with daemons in the future, so I can get a better feel for it.

How do you think it compares to the Brass Scorpion? I haven't used or seen either yet, though I'm highly considering putting one on the table in the future, especially if the "supposedly forthcoming" Chaos books don't have anything else to deal with the mass GC/SHW influx.

Brass scorpians are basically two IKs glued togehter

12 total HPs vs 9 HP with daemon save, IWND and higher front and side armor
2d3 total stomps vs d3+2 stomps is on average the same thing
6 total D attacks vs 6 S10 ap2 attacks (at ws3 i3)
A couple large blasts and heavy stubbers vs a demolisher that ignores cover and a bunch of S6 ap3 (both in shots and templates)

The problem though is that not having D weapon attacks is huge. It means brass scorpians can't fight other SHWs and GCs very well. And if its fighting against a D-weapon then you're screwed.

Indeed. Brass Scorpions are "Bully" units - it will slaughter infantry and tanks far more effectively than an imperial knight - the main gun is terrifying and the secondary weapons (ap3 flamers and multishot cannon) put even knight weapons to shame.

Plus, it's much harder to stop from the front and side.

Where it falls apart is if something gets behind it or if it faces something of its own size - I like it in the Hellforged Hunting Pack for that reason, where it can have a pack of maulerfiends to screen it.

Chaos knights are good. The upgrade is expensive but if you're using them as assault units (and you should) they pay for themselves easily - the Daemon rule gives you a save in melee and against crossfire - the two critical weaknesses of normal knights - plus the dirge caster is just awesome. It's almost worth it in a daemonkin army purely as something which can mount the dirge caster - the fact it's bolted onto a massively lethal assault war engine is just gravy.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
When I used one, it was nurgle, it regened the 1 HP it lost, delt some decent damage, the defensive grenade gave me one more "gun" to shoot, so I could have a closer range target, just in case. (If you play Daemon of, that is)
It was a really big apoc game, and it was a bit overshadowed by a brass scorpion, which was my opponents #1 target.

I plan on bringing it with daemons in the future, so I can get a better feel for it.

How do you think it compares to the Brass Scorpion? I haven't used or seen either yet, though I'm highly considering putting one on the table in the future, especially if the "supposedly forthcoming" Chaos books don't have anything else to deal with the mass GC/SHW influx.

Brass scorpians are basically two IKs glued togehter

12 total HPs vs 9 HP with daemon save, IWND and higher front and side armor
2d3 total stomps vs d3+2 stomps is on average the same thing
6 total D attacks vs 6 S10 ap2 attacks (at ws3 i3)
A couple large blasts and heavy stubbers vs a demolisher that ignores cover and a bunch of S6 ap3 (both in shots and templates)

The problem though is that not having D weapon attacks is huge. It means brass scorpians can't fight other SHWs and GCs very well. And if its fighting against a D-weapon then you're screwed.

Not only that but it's Initiative is terrible, like all other Daemonic Vehicles, at a pathetic I3 you wonder why such monstrosities even exist, seeing that their sole purpose in life is to massacre things, you'd think they'd be good in CC, but.. lol

Requizen wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
When I used one, it was nurgle, it regened the 1 HP it lost, delt some decent damage, the defensive grenade gave me one more "gun" to shoot, so I could have a closer range target, just in case. (If you play Daemon of, that is)
It was a really big apoc game, and it was a bit overshadowed by a brass scorpion, which was my opponents #1 target.

I plan on bringing it with daemons in the future, so I can get a better feel for it.

How do you think it compares to the Brass Scorpion? I haven't used or seen either yet, though I'm highly considering putting one on the table in the future, especially if the "supposedly forthcoming" Chaos books don't have anything else to deal with the mass GC/SHW influx.

Brass scorpion has a lot going for it, like others said. No D makes it rough against other superheavies, 7HP makes it hard to take out without superheavies (though its rear armor does suck) It's been a barrel of fun though. It will walk through most all comers armies without too much issue, thanks to its plentiful attacks, tons of stomps, and really useful weapons. The ignore cover blast has been absolutely wonderful. I have used the scorpion at least 5 times, but only used the knight once. I will be trying out the knight a few more times in the future.

I generally forget about the flamers, but they can be really good to tag a nearby unit for an assault if your 10 shot gun blasts something out of charge range. Also decent for busting a line through blocking lines.

The flamers are ***** devastating..... two flamestorm cannons are, as noted, fantastic for clearing a path to a target....

Kytan daemon engine is also quite fun

The reason why i think Chaos knights suck is because you only get 2 variants. The Paladin and the Errant. Then you also get no carapace mounted weapons. You also get no meltagun upgrade from the stubber. You also get no relics.

You do get a bonus of foe reaper chainsword. The only choices are dirge caster and which daemon of x god. Each are 50+ points. For 50pts, a loyalist Paladin/ Errant gets to upgrade the chainsword to an avenger gat cannon. Argue ably the best gun second to the Castigator' gun.

If Chaos had access to the Gallant then it would have the advantage of, daemon of khorne and 5+ invul and a dirge caster for 380pts.

If Chaos had access to an double shot ectoplasma large blast or even 5 small blasts them that would be great. Even better if it ignored the gets hot!

If Chaos gets access to a rival of the Warden Avenger Gat such as a special Helstorm autocannon which is S7 ap4 rending heavy 10 then that would be great.

If Chaos could get a rival to the Crusader whereby the Chaos Knight has 2 arms of maybe Kytan's Gatling Cannons and the top carapace mounted weapon is a storm spear then that would be great.

You do get Relics, they are in IA13 (Khorne bless that book.) so you can have scouting Titans. Plus, don't underestimate the power of daemon Titans.

A daemon titan costs as much as a Crusader. I would rather have the Crusader.

Loyalist Knights can support themselves with more knights. Chaos Knights need daemon psychers and so much stuff to match the killing potential of even Adamantine Lance.