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Can they be competitive? What are some typical builds and useful units?

They can be competitive, although their competitive list is mostly just some ml3 librarians, with termie troops, and as many dreadknights as humanly possible. This is also the most common list for GK's

We are competitive, but limited.

The best list is to go for 2-3 psykers(usually librarians all ML3, although a Grandmaster with a Psycannon is also good) 2 units of terminators as troops, then as many dreadknights with teleporters, swords, and psycannons as possible. Terminators take psycannons as their special weapons and at least 1 hammer per 5 guys. All in NSF detachments too for 1st turn deep striking and rerolls on the GK warlord trait table.

Going for Purifiers in borrowed drop pods is effective, just not as effective as going for the Terminator force.


Strengths of the first force.

1) Lots of psychic powers. You will dominate the psychic phase, my list typically has a minimum of 14 warp charges and thats before the D6 roll. My tactic is for every psyker to roll on Sanctic, I have a lvl3 libby with the book, a regular lvl3 libby, and a lvl2 grand master. This way you can have a high probability of getting Gate of Infinity and Vortex of Doom. Gate, or multiple Gates, makes your force very mobile. And due to the wording of the power, when you use it you trigger the Rites of Teleportation ability from the detachment. This makes your terminator squads very mobile and you can play scenario well. One favorite tactic is deep striking in turn 1, throwing out Vortex of Doom, then Gating somewhere else and shooting. As a bonus, every power on the Sanctic table is very good, except the Primaris power but meh.

2) Every model has a 2+ armor. Normally terminators are overcosted for their durability, but GK terminators are just on the right side of the cost curve being cheaper than other terminators.

3) Mobility and rapid engagement. I touched on this with the powers, but its worth expanding on. Because of 1st turn deep strike and Dreadknight shunting you can get into melee turn 2 and/or apply your limited shooting at the right spot. We don't have a lot of shooting or a lot of melee, so we need to pick and choose where we do it. Take out key enemy units and let their force crumble.


My preferred HQ builds are lvl Librarian with the Liber Daemonica, a lvl2 Grand Master with psycannon and the Cuirass of Sacrifice, and then another lvl3 librarian. Melta bombs are also a good 5 point filler to help deal with vehicles, and you can master craft their weapons too. My GM usually has a MC psycannon. With the Cuirass the GM is pretty durable, he can tank a few bolter rounds for his squad.

The very limited nature of GK makes them great allies for some comp armies but generally running them solo can be an uphill battle

Though dreadknights are so damn good you can run a decentl ist just maximising them

I play a similar list to what Grey Templar posted, only with Draigo instead of a Grand Master. It guarantees Gate, and comes with a badass combat monster. I also like to take Interceptors, if I have to points.

SJ

Yeah, Draigo is a good choice if you want to guarantee Gate. I don't use him because I'd rather have a MC psycannon that hits on 2+, and with 9 rolls on the table its very unlikely to not get Gate.

Liber and Warlord on the Libby is pretty solid for fishing for Gate, Sanctary, Vortex, and Cleansing Flame. I have on occasion added a BC with Psycannon and Prescience, but a TDA Inquistor is cheaper and brings Servo Skulls.

SJ

Draigo worth fielding @ 1500 point lvl?

Any way of playing them without Dreadknights?

I've got a ton of 1ed GK terminators, and would love to build an entirely 1ed army (with ball dreads, beaky marines, etc)....

 ArbitorIan wrote:
Any way of playing them without Dreadknights?

I've got a ton of 1ed GK terminators, and would love to build an entirely 1ed army (with ball dreads, beaky marines, etc)....

Yes, you can field a decent all TDA GK army based around GKT troops and a Librarian lead Paladin star. I would still recommend Incinerator armed Interceptors to be included, as Shunt and Jump are hugely mobile while TDA, even Deep Striking TDA, tends to be a bit stationary.

And yes, Draigo is great at 1500pts.

Tips and tricks: the 40k points system tends to favor expensive units at lower point games, cheaper units are higher point games due to the effect that it takes a certain number of hits to kill a model, which is harder at lower points but easier at higher points, Because Math. As an Elite low model count army, GK want to take Dreadknights and Draigo as much as they can, while conserving points via point efficient units such as the Librarian and GKT squads. You want to avoid inefficient units like Strikers, Purgators, and Dreadnoughts, or expensive underperformers like Land Raiders or Paladins. A case can be made for any unit having a place in your list, if you are building a strategy around it in your local meta. For example, taking minimal Strikers instead of GKT in order to fit in Stormravens versus opponents that don't field anti-air to protect their Gargantuan Creatures can be a game changer. Another example is building your army around Purifiers, which will require a lot of transport, most likely via allying. Paladin can be great if you build you list around them, but in doing so you need to be very efficient with the rest of your army.

SJ

Thanks once again Jefferson!

( im going to start out with a libby, 3 GKT squads, Draigo and 2 DK and call it the Jefferson ; ) )

That's a good start and it can keep up with plenty of armies.

To grow from there would be using some interceptors. Interceptors always carry their weight in a game.

I have interceptors should I use two squads of them instead of draigo at 1500?

You can fit all of them in at 1500 (shame can't fit in a second teleport homer on the other Interceptor squad)

Librarian Lvl3
10 x Terminators w/ Hammer x2, Psycannon x2
5x Interceptors w/ Incinerator, Teleport Homer
5x Interceptors w/ Incinerator
Dreadknight w/ Teleporter, Sword, H.Psycannon, H.Incinerator
Dreadknight w/ Teleporter, Sword, H.Psycannon, H.Incinerator
Draigo

The scary thing with GK is the personal teleporters and gate gives you the ability to get into CC turn 2 guaranteed. I just fought some tau with some GK and Skitarii, and basically the dreadnights flamers shunted 30 inches and then insta killed the tau with the flamers. Ironically his whole army was warriors and pathfinders and I removed his primary ap 2 turn 1 lol so the dreadnights basically killed his whole army

Shunt/Gate is a very underrated combo. Played a game on Friday vs Tyranids, Shunt/Gated turn 1 into his deployment zone and then proceeded to roll through a couple of Tervigons with the Psychic backlash(es) killing off a load of gaunts.

How would this kind of list fair? I'm not going to include upgrades just yet as I don't know whats good and whats not. I also own IG, SW, and some inquisitors to ally in.


Brother-Captain Stern
Grand Master
Librarian lvl3

Paladin Squad

2x Terminator Squads
2x Strike Squad

2x Dreadknights

I wanted to start up a tyranid force as well but I think I'd rather wait for the updated codex. The appeal of the GK right now seems that I won't have to spend too much to get a decent force as they seem to have low model count builds and I can ally them with my current IoM armies.

I would drop the paladins and strike squads. The strike squads can easily be turned into interceptors which are soo much better. And I my opinion paladins just art worth it. For 11 points more per paladin you can get 2 regular terminators, giving you twice the fire power, no vulnerability to instant death, and nor tactical flexibility.

I would also rather drop one HQ, or split the lid into two Nemesis strike forces. Rites of teleportation are the bomb.

Question: Just played a game of GK vs. CSM/IG at 2500pts. Called the game after turn 1 as a CSM/IG victory. I deployed my CSM/IG in a tight group against my table edge with bubble wrapping Cultists. Felt kinda bad since I guess this would be the optimal counter-deployment?

What I'm wondering is, would there be anything he could have done to deal with my deployment? He DS'd in some Paladins with a Grand Master and Apothecaries. They basically plopped down in front of my guns and got shot off the board when it came to my turn. Should he have kept some of his forces in reserve and wait for my deployment to shift open?

I agree with jedly. Drop the Paladins and Strike Squads for Interceptors and more Terminators. You get more attacks that way. Strike Squads are just dead weight.

How would you outfit your terminator and interceptor squads?

 clamclaw wrote:
Question: Just played a game of GK vs. CSM/IG at 2500pts. Called the game after turn 1 as a CSM/IG victory. I deployed my CSM/IG in a tight group against my table edge with bubble wrapping Cultists. Felt kinda bad since I guess this would be the optimal counter-deployment?

What I'm wondering is, would there be anything he could have done to deal with my deployment? He DS'd in some Paladins with a Grand Master and Apothecaries. They basically plopped down in front of my guns and got shot off the board when it came to my turn. Should he have kept some of his forces in reserve and wait for my deployment to shift open?

Depends on the mission and table set up. GK excel at Maelstrom missions due to tgrir mobility snd ability to bully opponents off objectives. However, as a good melee army, they require LoS blocking terrain. Without more information, it would tough for me to breakdown how I would have played it.

SJ

Personally that's what the tau did that I faced. Idk the armor saves of your guys but he could have shunted his dreadnights 30 inches and torrent flamed your cramped army, anything 4+ and up insta dead, and done similar things with purifiers in drop pods and interceptors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the large blast psycannon would have a similar affect, allowing cover saves unfortunately

I thought the consensus was that teleport homers didn't work with gate. Am i mistaken?

 ColdSadHungry wrote:
I thought the consensus was that teleport homers didn't work with gate. Am i mistaken?

You are mistaken.

SJ

Grand Masters suck, use Draigo, he's basically the best thing in the codex. Also, don't deepstrike in front of high strength barrage blast weapons. Take max teleporter dreadknights, and in this case shunt right in their face. With any luck, you'll survive to reach combat and the dreadknights will kill stuff and keep him so busy that the rest of your army can waltz up.

Grand Masters definitely do not suck.

Anything that is ml2, good in melee, and can have a psycannon that hits in 2+ cannot be bad. And all at a very reasonable price.

They're not bad in and of themselves, you're just paying a ton of points for someone who isn't doing much for you. Without Eternal Warrior, he can't really tank stuff, for his points he's not much of a combat character, especially now when you can take Draigo instead, psycannons aren't nearly good enough in shooting to justify spending that many points to get one more dude with one, and if you want a psychic buff character take a Librarian instead. And, no, having one guy to do all those things poorly is not worth it for the points.

Your HQs are Librarians. Take Draigo. If you want a psycannon character, take an ordo maleus inquisitor (who can get servo skulls and the relic with scout).

 Grey Templar wrote:
Grand Masters definitely do not suck.

Anything that is ml2, good in melee, and can have a psycannon that hits in 2+ cannot be bad. And all at a very reasonable price.

He probably thinks they suck since they don't have the "Cheese Eternal" storm shield that vanilla marines have. Honestly, outside of the shield eternal builds or smashfether in the case of Iron Hands, I would say most Chapter Masters are hard pressed to match GK Grand Master's utility, who have the ability to be a beatstick and force multiplier with their psychic powers.

That's the thing, on a character that expensive that doesn't have much durability, why aren't you just buying more bodies instead. A standard 5-man GK Terminator squad is cheap, has more wounds and isn't susceptible to ID, is better in shooting, hits much, much harder in combat, etc. For the same points, a Dreadknight is hugely, massively better than a Grand Master.

You do need to fill your HQ slot, that's true. But frankly, if you're really trying to be competitive, you're better off keeping your HQ cheap and saving those points for more bodies, allies, or something that counters GKs weaknesses better (having too few units and struggling vs fliers).