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Are Tie Phantoms a really popular ship right now?

It seems to sell out online really quick.

They've dropped off a lot since the Errata. People have tended to move towards Vader/Soontir, due to a mix of cost a flexibility.

That's not to say that they are bad, just less popular.

They're solid, and are the only ship which comes with the most popular(arguably) crew in the game atm. Tactician.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
They've dropped off a lot since the Errata. People have tended to move towards Vader/Soontir, due to a mix of cost a flexibility.

That's not to say that they are bad, just less popular.

I've been out of X-Wing for quite a while, what's changed to make Vader popular?

 argonak wrote:
I've been out of X-Wing for quite a while, what's changed to make Vader popular?

Phantoms are a hard ship to wrap your head around while playing. Planning for decloak, on top of the brain burn that is an arc dodger makes is very difficult to fly well.
Vader with the Title and ATC is just a beast. Fel with PTL is just so efficient... it's hard to beat.

 Peregrine wrote:

 argonak wrote:
I've been out of X-Wing for quite a while, what's changed to make Vader popular?

I'm brand new to the game, and I have the Tie Advanced.....what ship are these included with?

Those cards are only available in the Imperial Raider expansion. You get 4 copies of those cards along with some others like Emperor Palpatine, an alternate paint Advanced and the Raider itself.
Still... $100+ for the fix, but you can get the cards second hand too.

So far, my searches for those cards it is around $15 for the pair. Too expensive for 2 cards.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
Still... $100+ for the fix, but you can get the cards second hand too.

I don't always advocate this, but it's possible to get it significantly cheaper than $100 on the internet (usually around $60-$70 or so). Considering how much stuff you get with the expansion, it's definitely worth it.

Plus the raider is gorgeous on the shelf!! Mine hasn't even seen the gaming table yet, but I love having it!

Got a question that semi-relates to this topic... well no, but you guys touched on Vader earlier:

Is using Tie Engine Mk II instead of Engine Upgrade on Vader an acceptable solution to both increase available points for other things and try to bid for initiative, or are the downsides too great?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Got a question that semi-relates to this topic... well no, but you guys touched on Vader earlier:

Is using Tie Engine Mk II instead of Engine Upgrade on Vader an acceptable solution to both increase available points for other things and try to bid for initiative, or are the downsides too great?

In my opinion, no.

Vader should have, at a minimum, the title, ATC, and EU. I think Elite Upgrades are optional for him given his pilot talent, but there are a couple of good ones out there.

Question about Echo's ability:

Can I turn the maneuver template so that the ship barrel rolls slightly to the rear?

It simply changes the template to the lesser turn arc for the free barrel roll/boost 2 maneuver. So, can I place the template with a slightly rearward curve to it?

 megatrons2nd wrote:
Question about Echo's ability:

Can I turn the maneuver template so that the ship barrel rolls slightly to the rear?

It simply changes the template to the lesser turn arc for the free barrel roll/boost 2 maneuver. So, can I place the template with a slightly rearward curve to it?

Yes, you can position the template any way you like.

Echo is truly amazing. The only issue he/she (she, right?) faces is dealing with turret guns. If your opponent brings no turrets, having Echo is like bringing a bazooka to a knife fight.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Echo is truly amazing. The only issue he/she (she, right?) faces is dealing with turret guns. If your opponent brings no turrets, having Echo is like bringing a bazooka to a knife fight.

Turrets, and high-PS ships with maneuvering actions. Echo dies very quickly if your opponent can move second and then shoot before you can recloak. This is why Whisper is the default tournament choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
So far, my searches for those cards it is around $15 for the pair. Too expensive for 2 cards.

Is it more or less expensive than never being able to use the TIE advanced?

 Peregrine wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Echo is truly amazing. The only issue he/she (she, right?) faces is dealing with turret guns. If your opponent brings no turrets, having Echo is like bringing a bazooka to a knife fight.

Turrets, and high-PS ships with maneuvering actions. Echo dies very quickly if your opponent can move second and then shoot before you can recloak. This is why Whisper is the default tournament choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
So far, my searches for those cards it is around $15 for the pair. Too expensive for 2 cards.

Is it more or less expensive than never being able to use the TIE advanced?

I can use it. It might not be as good, but when it is one of 7 ships I own, there isn't much choice. I have just started collecting, so which is more important, 2 cards, or another ship with another 5 or so cards? My trial games, it has done okay, but when I am playing against my wife, and only using what I own, I won't get the full effect of everything available to those who have been playing since the beginning, and have access to a ton of stuff I just don't have yet.

I currently own:
The Red Core Box
X-wing
Y-wing
Tie Advanced
Tie Phantom

I bought enough to play 100 point games for both sides, and then decided to focus on Empire until I get all the ships I want, then start getting Rebellion, and then finally Scum. My next purchase will likely be another Tie Fighter, Tie Bomber, or Tie Defender.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
I can use it. It might not be as good, but when it is one of 7 ships I own, there isn't much choice.

The rules will allow you to put it on the table. It is, however, complete garbage, easily the worst ship in the game. It is not at all a viable option. Think of it this way: you're paying $15 to add another ship to your collection.

Alternatively, you could just do what any sane person would do outside of FFG-sanctioned tournaments and proxy the cards you need.

Is the Advance really worse than the Scyk?!

 Lord Corellia wrote:
Is the Advance really worse than the Scyk?!

Without the title? Yes. Scyk is cheaper, and has a better dial.

What makes the Tie Advanced worse? It seems about on par with an X-wing, at least from what I can see. Yes it gets less equipment, but it gets more action options. Defense is slightly worse than offense on the dice. What am I missing?

 megatrons2nd wrote:
What makes the Tie Advanced worse? It seems about on par with an X-wing, at least from what I can see. Yes it gets less equipment, but it gets more action options. Defense is slightly worse than offense on the dice. What am I missing?

The TIE Advanced without the title is one of the most over-costed ship in the game for what you get. It's a essentially a peashooter with it's two attack dice, which is why they added the Advanced Target Computer to up its damage output.

It has the same hull and shields as an X-wing, 1 higher agility, 1 lower primary weapon values.

It has 1 missile slot as compared to a torpedo, and astromech slot.

It has 4 abilities as compared to the X-wings 2.

Using the 21 point version is very close to the 21 point X-wing, at least from what I am seeing. There is definitely an advantage to the X-wing because attack dice are slightly better than defense dice, but to get more abilities the X-wing has to add them. Maybe the available upgrades are better for the X-wing, but that isn't the Tie Advanced problem, that is an upgrade card problem.

Mind you, I have just started, but this is what I see, based on stats, dice, and cost per unit. At least for the basic ship/pilot. I will give that Vader is not as good as Wedge, but then that is an additional pilot ability that is causing the issue, not the ship itself.


Do they run a "no unique character" format for tournaments ever? I know I can do that on my own, but I was curious. Some of the unique pilot abilities are a bit powerful, and some not so much, even on similar priced units.

The difference in attack power is probably the biggest reason. Defense is nice, but offense is what wins games. Hence why Advanced Targeting Computer is so nice.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
It has the same hull and shields as an X-wing, 1 higher agility, 1 lower primary weapon values.

It has 1 missile slot as compared to a torpedo, and astromech slot.

It has 4 abilities as compared to the X-wings 2.

Using the 21 point version is very close to the 21 point X-wing, at least from what I am seeing. There is definitely an advantage to the X-wing because attack dice are slightly better than defense dice, but to get more abilities the X-wing has to add them. Maybe the available upgrades are better for the X-wing, but that isn't the Tie Advanced problem, that is an upgrade card problem.

Mind you, I have just started, but this is what I see, based on stats, dice, and cost per unit. At least for the basic ship/pilot. I will give that Vader is not as good as Wedge, but then that is an additional pilot ability that is causing the issue, not the ship itself.

Compare it to the Academy Pilot TIE fighter, which has a cost of 12 points and is considered the baseline for all ships in the game. A Tempest Squadron TIE Advanced is 21 points and the only thing you get over the cheapest TIE fighter is two shields, the target lock action (which is pretty worthless on a two attack ship), and a crappier dial.

It just isn't a cost efficient ship at all.

Do they run a "no unique character" format for tournaments ever? I know I can do that on my own, but I was curious. Some of the unique pilot abilities are a bit powerful, and some not so much, even on similar priced units.

I'm sure there is some weird tournament formats out there but official sanctioned FFG tournaments won't have restrictions like that.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
Compare it to the Academy Pilot TIE fighter, which has a cost of 12 points and is considered the baseline for all ships in the game. A Tempest Squadron TIE Advanced is 21 points and the only thing you get over the cheapest TIE fighter is two shields, the target lock action (which is pretty worthless on a two attack ship), and a crappier dial.

It just isn't a cost efficient ship at all.

Don't you also get +1 Piloting? But I guess 2 piloting I worth 1 point, Academy to Obsidian, and the target lock is to fire the missile.

It is 9 points more for a missile slot, +1 piloting, +2 Shields, and +1 ability.

The X-wing as compared to the academy pilot is 9 points more for +1 Piloting, +2 shield, -1 ability, +1 Primary, -1 Agility, an Astromech slot, and a Torpedo slot.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
Don't you also get +1 Piloting? But I guess 2 piloting I worth 1 point, Academy to Obsidian, and the target lock is to fire the missile.

Going from PS1 to PS2 is meaningless in the long run. Also, missiles (like most ordnance) aren't worth their points, especially on generics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
It is 9 points more for a missile slot, +1 piloting, +2 Shields, and +1 ability.

Still not worth it for the reasons why I've already explained.

The X-wing as compared to the academy pilot is 9 points more for +1 Piloting, +2 shield, -1 ability, +1 Primary, -1 Agility, an Astromech slot, and a Torpedo slot.

The X-wing is over-costed as well. Comparing two over-costed ships is kind of useless.

Yeah, the X-Wing is another weakish ship to the point of getting a buff upgrade card, so it probably isn't the best comparison. Compare it to the B-Wing, which has 3 attack and a lot more health.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
1 higher agility, 1 lower primary weapon values.

And this is why it is garbage. Red dice have slightly more "success" results than green dice, but red dice are used (almost) every turn while green dice aren't. The x-wing can spend turn after turn taking advantage of its extra red die while the TIE advanced never rolls any green dice. This is why you pay 7 points to add one red die with additional penalties with a HLC, and it's still a really powerful card. But the TIE advanced has the same point cost as if the red and green dice are equal, and that makes it significantly overpriced.

It has 4 abilities as compared to the X-wings 2.

Which doesn't actually matter that much since it can't take multiple actions per turn to use them. Most of the time you're just taking a focus action with a TIE advanced, and occasionally a barrel roll. Having the barrel roll option is nice, but not worth all that much.

I will give that Vader is not as good as Wedge, but then that is an additional pilot ability that is causing the issue, not the ship itself.

Actually you have that backwards. Wedge's ability is good, but Vader's is one of the best in the game.