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I'm new to 7th ed tau, and I dont have long before my friend arrives with his Eldar craftworld list, including an avatar and I need a list I can be sure a relative noob like me wont be too badly punished..

Battleforged is driving me nuts, I figure that darkstrider can't be taken in a hunter contingent, which is a shame!

In my collection I have:

1 commander
5-6 crisis
2 broadsides
1 ripe tide (unbuilt)
12-15 stealth suits
2 piranhas
2 devilfish
2 hammerheads
30+ firewarriors
8 count as converted fw pathfinders
20ish kroot + hunter + 2-3 kroot hounds.
6 vesipds
1 ethereal
3 sniper drones,
plenty of gun drones, and various 'count as drones'

So what do I want to do? I'd like to try a 'buffmander' and maybe the stealth formation, firebase for the riptide and broadsides.

I don't know what his list will bring, but he will have a flyer, and he is good at combining things up. He says it is mostly built to fight IG tank armies.

So I'm confused, I kind of want a buffmander, and was thinking of ranking him up with ml drones to use his bs5 while he doesn't shoot, but then any unit he joins can't use those marklights as they'll fire at the same time.

Unsure how to get a load of markerlights pathfinders are so easy to kill... I could put together a skyray but again they dont fit easily into a battle forged army.

While it is cheeky to say here are my models give me a list, what I'm really asking for is advice on how to enjoy and try the new rules!

Honestly Tau are in such a good place that unless your up against some power armies like Eldar or Necrons you should be fine fielding whatever. Stealth Suits aren't all that great outside of their special formations and Vespids are really niche use but other than that most everything should be fine. Just make sure you have the tools to crack open high armor vehicles (Fusion Crisis Suits are my go to vehicle crackers but other things can work), 2+ armor save killers, and multiple sources of markerlights as they tend to be a priority target and the linchpin to Tau's superior firepower.

You don't ha e to take the hunter contingent, you can take a standard CAD. Or take the hunter contingent and take a small CAD to bring darkstrider. I'd build that Riptide though, they're really good for Tau.

DirtyDeeds wrote:You don't ha e to take the hunter contingent, you can take a standard CAD. Or take the hunter contingent and take a small CAD to bring darkstrider. I'd build that Riptide though, they're really good for Tau.

I wanted to really carefully base him and pose him as they don't have many weapons choices, but now i'm out of time, I want his power on the field and the firebase formation looks tempting though that means putiting my broadsides in separate units doesn't it?

Vankraken wrote:Honestly Tau are in such a good place that unless your up against some power armies like Eldar or Necrons you should be fine fielding whatever. Stealth Suits aren't all that great outside of their special formations and Vespids are really niche use but other than that most everything should be fine. Just make sure you have the tools to crack open high armor vehicles (Fusion Crisis Suits are my go to vehicle crackers but other things can work), 2+ armor save killers, and multiple sources of markerlights as they tend to be a priority target and the linchpin to Tau's superior firepower.

Multiply marker lights are my current problem, a small CAD could bring a skyray and darkstrider then either marker drones or pathfiders or both! lol... I wish I had the tetra's I always wanted to buy!

I am facing Eldar and it will be a near competitive list...

MoridinUK wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:You don't ha e to take the hunter contingent, you can take a standard CAD. Or take the hunter contingent and take a small CAD to bring darkstrider. I'd build that Riptide though, they're really good for Tau.

I wanted to really carefully base him and pose him as they don't have many weapons choices, but now i'm out of time, I want his power on the field and the firebase formation looks tempting though that means putiting my broadsides in separate units doesn't it?

Vankraken wrote:Honestly Tau are in such a good place that unless your up against some power armies like Eldar or Necrons you should be fine fielding whatever. Stealth Suits aren't all that great outside of their special formations and Vespids are really niche use but other than that most everything should be fine. Just make sure you have the tools to crack open high armor vehicles (Fusion Crisis Suits are my go to vehicle crackers but other things can work), 2+ armor save killers, and multiple sources of markerlights as they tend to be a priority target and the linchpin to Tau's superior firepower.

Multiply marker lights are my current problem, a small CAD could bring a skyray and darkstrider then either marker drones or pathfiders or both! lol... I wish I had the tetra's I always wanted to buy!

I am facing Eldar and it will be a near competitive list...

The Firebase cadre is meh at best. The only way you benefit from the formation bonus is to have the three units fire st the same target. I'll tell you this, if your buddy has a competitive Eldar list then you'll have a hard time keeping up with him. He'll have everyone on jetbikes shooting you at 36" with str 6 fire with psychic shenanigans and possibly a wraithknight. The models you have either have the range but can't move, or can move but don't have the range. (Especially without a Riptide)

So what models should I have then?

I will have the one ripe tide built by the time he gets here, or will proxy it. T4 do die, I've not been charged with feel no pain nobs since the first time...

This is why i wanted dark strider in the army, preferable in a unit that is part of a hunter cadre, that way his -1 t can be used for firewarriors at range to hurt some jet bikes.

I do not think his whole army is on jet bikes... but he does have a wraith knight, fire prisom tank thingy, flying thingy and an avatar...

Breachers with an ethereal and Darkstrider in Devilfish turbo boosting turn 1 could cause him problem by turn 2, crisis with Plasmas, CIBs or missile pods are you best bet against Eldar. Your Broadsides should have HYMP. Your first Riptide would be good with IA and SMS. Buffmander and Drone commander have their uses, it's up to you to decide which you need more. I highly recommend at least 10 bs 3 markerlight sources.

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Breachers with an ethereal and Darkstrider in Devilfish turbo boosting turn 1 could cause him problem by turn 2, crisis with Plasmas are missile pods are you best bet against Eldar. Your Broadsides should have HYMP. Your first Riptide would be good with IA and SMS. Buffmander and Drone commander have their uses, it's up to you to decide which you need more. I highly recommend at least 10 bs 3 markerlight sources.

I will have to look at that set up, with the ethereal, I'm unbound without the command contingent with the etheral which means a body guard unit somewhere... possible they could be the buffmander as they can have signature stuff.

Breachers worry me, all my 5th ed experience freaks me out with the idea of getting closer than half a board away...

edit: and I'm assuming it's preferable that those 10 bs 3 markerlights aren't in the same unit huh?

MoridinUK wrote:

DirtyDeeds wrote:
Breachers with an ethereal and Darkstrider in Devilfish turbo boosting turn 1 could cause him problem by turn 2, crisis with Plasmas are missile pods are you best bet against Eldar. Your Broadsides should have HYMP. Your first Riptide would be good with IA and SMS. Buffmander and Drone commander have their uses, it's up to you to decide which you need more. I highly recommend at least 10 bs 3 markerlight sources.

I will have to look at that set up, with the ethereal, I'm unbound without the command contingent with the etheral which means a body guard unit somewhere... possible they could be the buffmander as they can have signature stuff.

Breachers worry me, all my 5th ed experience freaks me out with the idea of getting closer than half a board away...

edit: and I'm assuming it's preferable that those 10 bs 3 markerlights aren't in the same unit huh?

It helps to split up the markerlights. I personally prefer a Drone Commander over a Buffmander because I use a lot of Riptides, with an Y'Vahra and Stormsurge, so there's no place to put him. If you do that though, you can save yourself 4 points by purchasing two drones as wargear for your commander and attach a Drone squad later (which could be your auxilary choice for the Hunter Contingent). Keeps him cheap and at a good distance from your opponent.

If you're dead set on the Hunter Contingent, you can still use the breachers as a wall of nastiness. Give them devilfish with disruption pods and rush his back field, it'll keep him occupied while you capture objectives. Remember that you're playing the mission, not your opponent. Their str 6 ap 3 is really nasty and will probably be your best source of AP3+ weaponry you'll have considering your current model options.

aI dont think I have the models for a rip tide heavy army. The hunter contingent appeals with the models I have, though I'm not even very familiar with the CAD.

Do I not need the breachers as troops to capture objectives?

3+ weapons were always too rare.. I guess that's why the breachers are there... to level a few marines..

The CAD is the old force organizstion, one hq and two troops minimum. This gives your troops ObSec. Taking troops in the Hunter Contingent does not give them ObSec as it is not a bonus in that formation. That being said, Obsec is not necessaey, just helpful in some situations. Remember, ANYTHING can score (except drones).

Ok anything can score awesome! hmm a cad and a hunter is 5 troops choices... gulp

You could also take an allied farsight detachment for obsec crisis suits.

First I'd need to look up obsec, and then buy a farsight enclave book!

My thought on an hunter and a cad, was so I could get darkstrider in, and a sky ray..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
hmm ObSec, hold the objective even if it is challenged?

ObSec is objective secured, look in the core rulebook for that.

For Farsight, I'll save you the money. Crisis are troops. The wargear isn't great/really expensive.

Thanks!

So a few thought and rule clarifications please.

If I have a hunter contingent, and a cad to bring in dark strider and 2 kroot units.

If Dark strider joined one of the hunter contingents striker/beacher teams. When that unit then fires, other units in the detachment can add support and they share special rules.

Would dark striders -1t special rule apply to them?

If when doing this the second unit called in two fire also contained a buffmander, would they all get the ignores cover, -1t , re rolls to hits and tank hunter?

If a third unit from the hunter also added, they get +1 bs?

While I imagine this will not make me any friends is it legal? Please remember I'm rather new at this so if I've missed something obvious please point it out and forgive me!

edit:
And neither Darkstrider or a fireblade cadre can be given a drone controller huh? So if they take drones or join a drone team, they can't use their bs 5?

It also says I can take a drone network as my auxiliary attachment. But I see no special rules, so I assume it's just a normal unit of drones?

Edit2:

Drones, ot make use of a shield drone I need to make sure they are closer to the firing unit than the character/model they are assigned to? A riptides shielded missile drones don't give him a +4 invulnerable save, but need to take the shots themselves right?

1) The way you play the Hunter Contingent special rule is up to how cheesy you want to feel. ITC determined that it wad too overpowered to share anything besides Markerlights and the potential for +1 BS. I recommend asking your opponent before you begin.

2) Drone Controller is required to fire at a better BS. If a model can't take it then their attached drones will not get a higher bs. Also, you are correct in your assumption on the drone network. You simply need one unit of drones to fulfill the requirement with no additional benefit.

3) The drones must be in front as they are the units with the Invulnerable save. I highly recommend against taking shield drones on anything as they increase the likelihood of a unit running away. A Riptide is tank enough and does not require a Shielded Missile Drone. Stimulant Injectors would be a better option.

Honestly, Tau are in a position right now where you can pretty much do whatever and as long as you got good target priority and dont do anything dumb, you can win. I've gotten a reputation around here for throwing the traditional Tau armies out the window lol. Had one guy try to list tailor against me expecting Riptides/Broadsides/Buffmander....didnt bring all 3 and wasted a ton of his points in the process because i went with an Ethereal strat lol. I've been doing some really random gak and still either winning or having damn close games. Hell, i ran a Hunter Cadre with 60 firewarriors and a Cadre Fireblade...lost by 1 point rofl

Stealth Suits are the weakest unit we got thats still viable, and personally the only reason i despise them is the weapon options. Wish i could give them all the same damn gun other than a burst cannon.
Avoid kroot/vespid, been bad since they were created and are still bad.
The planes are iffy to me. I dont like them but some people claim theyre fine.

With what you got, Retaliation Cadre to give your broadsides Relentless would be great. You're missing a Ghostkeel for the stealth cadre anyway and fielding both would be pricy pointswise.

Buffmander really isnt needed. Hes powerful, and makes a unit scary as hell while simultaneously making some markerdrones guarantee a ton of hits for another unit, but gotta remember the buffmander strat costs almost as much as another squad of crisis suits.

Also, the Drone Net requires 2 units from its formation to be on the table to get the army-wise bonus BS to drones. Not that hard to do though, if theyre all Marker Drone squads then their 36" range doubled with Jetpacks tends to keep them alive most of the time.

ITC ruled against the whole Unit Rules sharing with the Coord Fire thing, since thats rather insane. If we didnt have access to a buffmander it might be different, but that would literally make 1 unit evaporate every turn regardless of what the hell it is or what were shooting at it....since our entire damn army would shoot at it for +1BS, Ignore Cover, Reroll Hits, Tank/Monster Hunter, and however many markerlights you landed earlier. With that in mind im not surprised it got ruled out - its not an Imperial based cheese after all.
That being said, Darkstrider can still join a unit within the Hunter Cont. and perform Coord Fire with the unit he joined, but his -1T rule wouldnt share. Personally i dont see why people rate him so high, a 100pt deadly as hell model in a Firewarrior or Pathfinder squad is just asking to be removed in 10 seconds flat, and its not that hard to do either. Only reason i use Ethereals even though theyre in the same boat is because of Devilfish trickery (nothing says the effect cancels if hes in a fish ).

What is ITC?

It is clear that the rules were designed, with certain signature systems only working if the model doesn't fire, to share rules via co-ord Fire. Thanks for at least commenting on the Imperial based cheese, it dose seem people pick and choose what is acceptable cheese and what is not. Many of the Imperial codex are cheesey and frankly I liked that some Xenos got some somewhere. But I've no idea what ITC is or why I should care about it, if no one else does in my meta.

Just to be clear, I expect to be facing an avatar, a wraith knight and a bunch of lance type stuff, I can't see how only fielding one ripetide counters that without buffmander. I'm also dissapointed because he would make an amazing buff but simply not worth the points, apart from buffing markerdrones, I don't know what i'd put it with, my ripetide, my breachers, my broadsides, or a crisis unit, maybe a huge one?

I think it would be the huge crisis unit or marker drones... :(

My point is that they don't even pretend it is balanced and I doubt that the ITC has 'ruled' enough to make the system balanced either. GW even admit they dont even try, though I do expect an faq eventually on it.

I'll ask the chap I'm playing against... we don't get together often and so I don't want to ruin a game for him, though in game that only lasts 5-6 turns I'm unsure that losing a unit a turn isn't what is supposed to happen....

edit: the +1bs army wide... why haven't I noticed that?

I would forget about ITC, its pseudo warhammer in my view. Anyways with your models i would suggest the following lists. Mind that my suggestions are not the most competitive since they are based upon the models you have with some minor expansion.

Mont'ka - Dawn Blade Contingent - CORE - Retaliation Cadre
Commander (Plasma/fusion)
3x2 Crisis Teams (Plasma/Fusion)
1x Riptide ION/SMS
1x2 Broadsides HYMP
(Add wargear/upgrades as you see fit etc)

Mont'ka - Dawn Blade Contingent - AUXILIARY FORMATION - Drone Net VX-1-0
4x4 Marker drones

Tau Empire - CAD
HQ
1x Ethereal (embark on the Devilfish)
TROOPS
6x5 Firewarriors w EMP (1 Devilfish transport)
HEAVY SUPPORT
2x1 Hammerheads Ion Cannon
(Add wargear/upgrades as you see fit etc)


(if you can get/convert 1 more unit of pathfinders you could also add)
FORMATION - Infiltration Cadre
3x4 Patfinders w/ Marker Lights
2x3 Stealth suits (2x Homing Beacons for the Retaliation Cadre)
1x2 Pirhanas (Fusion and/or Seeker if you want to)

(Add more units/models/wargear to the infiltration cadre if you have the points etc)

X078 wrote:

Mont'ka - Dawn Blade Contingent - CORE - Retaliation Cadre
Commander (Plasma/fusion)
3x2 Crisis Teams (Plasma/Fusion)
1x Riptide ION/SMS
1x2 Broadsides HYMP
(Add wargear/upgrades as you see fit etc)

Mont'ka - Dawn Blade Contingent - AUXILIARY FORMATION - Drone Net VX-1-0
4x4 Marker drones

Tau Empire - CAD
HQ
1x Ethereal (embark on the Devilfish)
TROOPS
6x5 Firewarriors w EMP (1 Devilfish transport)
HEAVY SUPPORT
2x1 Hammerheads Ion Cannon
(Add wargear/upgrades as you see fit etc)


(if you can get/convert 1 more unit of pathfinders you could also add)
FORMATION - Infiltration Cadre
3x4 Patfinders w/ Marker Lights
2x3 Stealth suits (2x Homing Beacons for the Retaliation Cadre)
1x2 Pirhanas (Fusion and/or Seeker if you want to)

(Add more units/models/wargear to the infiltration cadre if you have the points etc)

But I dont have Mont'ka! :S...

What about:

Mont'ka - Dawn Blade Contingent - CORE - Retaliation Cadre
Commander buffmander
2x1 Crisis Teams (Plasma/Fusion)
1x4 Crisis (Plasma/Missle pod) commander join here.
1x Riptide ION/SMS
1x2 Broadsides HYMP
(Add wargear/upgrades as you see fit etc)

Or leave it as you suggested let that retaliation commander take the pure-tide chip (tank or monster hunter would be handy?), and a mini buffmander in the CAD/Hunter to boost some markerdrones to bs 5?

Any Farsight related detachment (Mont'ka etc) will not be able to take the "buffmander" because they do not have access to the Tau Empire signature systems.

You have several options to get the Buffmander though:
- Take the Retalition Cadre as a Tau Empire Formation (you can still take the Mont'ka drone formation standalone)
- Take the Buffmander as an HQ in a Tau Empire CAD
- Take the Buffmander as an HQ in a Hunter Contingent Hunter Cadre. Probably the most powerful option if you play close to RAW and have the proper units (crisis, riptides, stormsurges etc).
- Take the Tau Empire Signature systems on a Tau Empire Crisis upgraded to Shas'vre (or bodyguard). Quite convenient if you want the "buffs" on another suit than the Commander who can then focus on BS5 Marker duty and shooting.

Anyways i would recommend you get all the books needed, either this: http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/40k-feat/tau-empire-collection.html

Or the mobile edition (ipad\android) equivalents of the above.

X078 wrote:
Any Farsight related detachment (Mont'ka etc) will not be able to take the "buffmander" because they do not have access to the Tau Empire signature systems.

Can a tau (as opposed to the impossible farsight) buffmander not join them on the battlefield, though this would nullify the retailation formation dropping in, though I'm worried about space to deep strike all those units safely anyway...

You have more options to get the Buffmander though:
- Take the Retalition Cadre as a Tau Empire Formation (you can still take the Mont'ka drone formation standalone)
- Take the Buffmander as an HQ in a Tau Empire CAD
- Take the Buffmander as an HQ in a Hunter Contingent Hunter Cadre. Probably the most powerful option if you play close to RAW and have the proper units (crisis, riptides, stormsurges etc).
- Take the Tau Empire Signature systems on a Tau Empire Crisis upgraded to Shas'vre (or bodyguard). Quite convenient if you want the "buffs" on another suit than the Commander who can then focus on BS5 Marker duty and shooting.

The problem with a is finding a core detachment, Probably have to be a Tau CAD as core and a Tau retaliation as aux.

Option d looks promising, especially as a crisis option in a Hunter, if my opponent allows the sharing of rules to stand...

Anyways i would recommend you get all the books needed, either this: http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/40k-feat/tau-empire-collection.html

Or the mobile edition (ipad\android) equivalents of the above.

I have my codex, The thought of spending £90 on books when I play a game about once every 12 months makes me shudder,,, :(

Sure you can join Tau Empire and Farsight units as per Battle brother rules. Formation rules will have to be checked if they confer etc.

The need for Core detachments applies to the "Contingent" detachments like Hunter and Dawn Blade -Contingents.
You can always take as many standalone detachments/formations as you want otherwise e.g. 2 CADs and 3 formations.
Your example of a CAD as Primary detachment and the added Retaliation formations is fine. You can further add as many standalone detachments/formations you have points for e.g. another CAD or the Mont'ka Drone Net VX1-0 or Piranha Firestream etc.

X078 wrote:
Sure you can join Tau Empire and Farsight units as per Battle brother rules. Formation rules will have to be checked if they confer etc.

The need for Core detachments applies to the "Contingent" detachments like Hunter and Dawn Blade -Contingents.
You can always take as many standalone detachments/formations as you want otherwise e.g. 2 CADs and 3 formations.
Your example of a CAD as Primary detachment and the added Retaliation formations is fine. You can further add as many standalone detachments/formations you have points for e.g. another CAD or the Mont'ka Drone Net VX1-0 or Piranha Firestream etc.

Ah so that is how it works!!

Contingents = a group of formations, hence the auxiliary formations also get the contingent rules? So the hunter contingent co-ordinated firepower, will apply to any aux formations and the contingent HQ that make up the whole hunter contingent rather than just the cadre (which also get their own extras; unbreakable bonds and ambushes and feints (very nasty with breeachers huh?) I wish I could get darkstrider into a hunter cadre easily...

With RAW if darkstrider did join a hunter contingent unit, could his -1t sig system be available to other hunter contingent units via co-ordinated firepower (firing at the same unit)? I know ICT doesn't like the sharing of rules I was wondering what a RAW apporach would mean in this circumstance? I like the idea of a breacher unit shooting bikes and calling in some long range (ripetide/broadside) firepower at the same time for some instant death fun.

Yes and you can have up to 10 auxiliary formations per core.

Yes, Darkstriders special rule would work if he was part of a Coordinated Firepower attack.

You could take the Hunter Continent (Cadre + 1 compulsory aux e.g. the small Drone formation) and then a CAD with Darkstrider, breachers etc and use him in a Coordinated Firepower attack.

Combining the above with a tidewall and/or gunrig fortification (in the CAD) is quite fun. Lots of obsec Breachers in Devilfishes and normal Strike teams behind advancing shieldwalls with Darkstrider firing the gunrigs

As you said it a few times before, any independent character cannot join a monstrous creature, this includes the Riptide.

Yeah 7th fixed that loophole. It used to be "they cannot join a unit that only composes of one model" well riptides had 1-3 unit comp thanks to drone rules so he could join.

7th chanced it to no MCs period.

....could you imagine if that was still a thing and the now available 3-Riptide unit? rofl oh the horror

DirtyDeeds wrote:
As you said it a few times before, any independent character cannot join a monstrous creature, this includes the Riptide.

which can be effectively gotten around during shooting with CFP (provided you aren't playing ITC).

I made a list that I wouldn't mind bringing to a game:
2 DBCs with a Culexus(1849 pts):
2x Dawn Blade Contingent
Commander AFP, TL, DC, EWO

3x Crisis Shas'ui 2 Burst Cannons, BKR, EWO

Riptide IA, EWO, VT

Broadside Shas'ui BKR, EWO

Aux Drone Net
6 Marker Drones
5 Marker Drones
4 Gun Drones
4 Gun Drones
Aux Ranged Support Cadre

3x Broadside Shas'ui BKR, EWO
3x Pathfinder Team BKR

DESPERATE ALLY
Culexus Assassin

MoridinUK wrote:
I'm new to 7th ed tau, and I dont have long before my friend arrives with his Eldar craftworld list, including an avatar and I need a list I can be sure a relative noob like me wont be too badly punished..

Battleforged is driving me nuts, I figure that darkstrider can't be taken in a hunter contingent, which is a shame!

In my collection I have:

1 commander
5-6 crisis
2 broadsides
1 ripe tide (unbuilt)
12-15 stealth suits
2 piranhas
2 devilfish
2 hammerheads
30+ firewarriors
8 count as converted fw pathfinders
20ish kroot + hunter + 2-3 kroot hounds.
6 vesipds
1 ethereal
3 sniper drones,
plenty of gun drones, and various 'count as drones'

So what do I want to do?

Some general advice given the list you just posted:
I might suggest a dual CAD. Meaning to take two separate force orgs.
That will maintain your Objective Secured on your Fire Warriors and allow you to play with 5 separate Crisis suits which can drop in.
The riptide: A must given your collection. Build it at once. Plus its really freaking cool looking.

Create a Buffmander with iridium+ Stim +Command and Control + Drone Controller +2 Marker Drones. Add him to six more Marker Drones. Use him to tank wounds with his T5 and 2+ armor while the Markerlights doom anything you want to fire the Ion Cannon at.

Ethereal + Cadre Fireblade (convert one) is boss for Fire Warriors and for Sniper Drones. You have both...

Purchase a Ghostkeel at once. its probably the only thing you "need" to buy that you don't own, to make an effective force out of this. Optimiized Stealth Cadre is just really good.