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It's been a very long while since I last posted anything on these forums, and this is a thought that I have had for a long time now but can't recall seeing any threads about it...

I've been into 40k since 1995 and I still have my first miniature! My god does it look awful with its 12 layers of paint, but hey, it's a big learning curve for a kid of 10 years old at that point... I'm 31 now, I've had a few breaks from the hobby but each time that I've come back, my painting has become more and more refined which has won me a few local and GW store competitions. I've practiced a lot, trial and error, honed my skills and have become a pretty good painter.

Now a days I see some commission painters that knock armies out left right and centre that are purely airbrushed, as a collective photo of each army, don't get me wrong but it looks pretty good... However, when you look at the individual figures, they're pretty naff... sure you can do a quick glow and a spot highlight for some metallic parts in next to no time but, it just looks off. You can clearly see a big green circle with a slightly smaller, slightly lighter green circle inside that and one final brighter circle. There's no skill in that, there's no blending, there's no trial and error, there's no stumbling across a new paint effect. You do usually get some edge highlighting, of poor quality mostly though imo...

Of course there are some exquisite users of airbrushes, that do intricate work and finish of with a brush, such as faces and freehand designs, hair etc. That's great, I'm all for that. My main gripe is these 'Commision Painters' that do armies, mega quick, sell them to people who probably can't afford their own airbrush and they just look the same, there's no individuality to them. It's just the same generic paint scheme, with some of the worst OSL I've ever seen, on everything, changing colours to what they think looks cool.

I doubt I'm allowed to mention names or companies but hopefully some of you know who I mean. It just bugs me that some people think that everything these people produce is better than they could ever achieve... You can't be great over night...

Thoughts?

Well ...I'm also not a fan of the super "airbrushed look" like you see in the BOLS cheater-kid videos; BUT -- there is tons of skill involved in airbrushing, lots of blending, and LOTS and LOTS of trial and error, and discovering new effects too...

The learning curve for airbrushing is quite a bit steeper than hand brushing.

It's just another tool... but yeah the cranked out "airbrush look" armies are kinda lame. But I think paying someone to paint your army is a bit lame to begin with, airbrushed or not.

We have had this discussion several times in the past. The short and skinny of it is...

1. Airbrushes are just tools. In the hands of a skilled artist they produce good results, in the hands of an amateur they produce.... amateur results. Sometimes they don't even speed you up, if I want a good looking vehicle model with a 3 colour camo pattern I'll spend ages airbrushing it and then still go back with a hairy brush to fix things up anyway.

2. What looks good is subjective. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean other people don't. Some people like the soft blended ultra-contrast airbrushed models, some people don't. Some people prefer soft-blended but more reasonably contrasted airbrushed models, some don't. Some people don't like soft blends at all and prefer a hairy brush.

It may be hard to swallow, but some people actually like the look of an uber-contrasty army because it stands out more on the table top, and they're happy having an army that looks good *as an army* vs something that looks good when you look at each model up close.

3. Commission painters will do what makes them money. If someone is willing to pay you $200 to pump out an airbrushed army that you can do in a week, that makes more sense than if someone is willing to pay you $200 to paint a hairy brushed army that is going to take you 2 weeks to do. Supply and demand, if people stop liking the look of those "bad" armies and stop wanting to pay money for it, the commission painters will shift their style.

4. Don't assume there's "no skill" involved. Just because a commission painter is pumping out quick and dirty armies doesn't mean they can't produce a high end model as well, it's just a completely different customer that wants a display piece vs one that wants a whole army painted to play with. And even if it doesn't look like there was any skill involved, it may be that the skill was being able to paint it fast. Sure, I can airbrush, I still can't pump out an army in 1 to 4 weeks in order to be a commission painter.

5. " It just bugs me that some people think that everything these people produce is better than they could ever achieve" Some people don't have the time or desire to become whiz at painting and maybe it is better than they can realistically achieve on the scale of a whole army. Most people who are half decent at painting can already identify quickly painted armies vs ones that had a lot more effort put in to them. For someone who just wants to play a game and doesn't have the time to paint it themselves, the difference between paying a commission painter to do a quick airbrush job vs something far higher end might be paying $500 and waiting a month or two vs paying $3000 and waiting a year.

6. Some effects just aren't possible or are prohibitively time consuming to do without an airbrush. c'est la vie.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
We have had this discussion several times in the past.

Yep. And here's a LINK to the most recent discussion if the OP wishes to read it for himself.

All valid points, thanks for your input. I think I may just have gripe with one particular studio... I saw one of their new armies on facebook about half an hour ago and the work is so poor, on one figure you can see that a gun has a part sprayed with the colour used on the hand.

Thanks for the link Ghaz

I did substantial amounts of this (still WIP) Rhino with an airbrush. I'm not sure you could tell?

I think your objection is to high contrast, low detail, paint jobs?

Apparently there was a massive finger print on my camera lens when I took this! Still, point remains the same.

 Reptile(5iN) wrote:
My main gripe is these 'Commision Painters' that do armies, mega quick, sell them to people who probably can't afford their own airbrush and they just look the same...

So youre upset that there are commission studios who provide a service that people want and pay money for? Thats the long and short of it?

I dont know if youre aware of what the going rate for getting an army painted by some of the more well known studios is, but its definitely more than the cost of a good airbrush and compressor setup.

 Reptile(5iN) wrote:
All valid points, thanks for your input. I think I may just have gripe with one particular studio... I saw one of their new armies on facebook about half an hour ago and the work is so poor, on one figure you can see that a gun has a part sprayed with the colour used on the hand.

Thanks for the link Ghaz

One bad Airbrush job doesnt make all airbrush work bad

"not all airbrushs"

I personally hate the over done OSL and sloppy contrast work. but damnit if it isnt nice for painting large amounts of yellow and varnishing without the risk of frosting.

It's a recurring discussion. You watch talented people make it look easy on youtube and assume it's easy. It took me two years to really develop a good understanding of the relationship between psi, paint/fluid ratios, cone size and distance to achieve a half decent blend. Three armies painted as practice. That's a lot of trial and error. As for selling to people who can't afford an airbrush? That's just incorrect.

I paint better with a bristle brush, but I work 60+ hours a week. I'll use any tool that maximises the efficiency of my limited painting time, and so far an airbrush has been by far the most helpful.

@ az you've done a great job on that chain around the edging of the plates. Very neatly applied.

 Reptile(5iN) wrote:
All valid points, thanks for your input. I think I may just have gripe with one particular studio... I saw one of their new armies on facebook about half an hour ago and the work is so poor, on one figure you can see that a gun has a part sprayed with the colour used on the hand.

Thanks for the link Ghaz

This has nothing to do with the airbrush. If he had used a brush and made the same mistake, would your title be "Does anyone else think that paintbrushing is bad? " ?

 JamesY wrote:
It's a recurring discussion. You watch talented people make it look easy on youtube and assume it's easy. It took me two years to really develop a good understanding of the relationship between psi, paint/fluid ratios, cone size and distance to achieve a half decent blend. Three armies painted as practice. That's a lot of trial and error. As for selling to people who can't afford an airbrush? That's just incorrect.

I paint better with a bristle brush, but I work 60+ hours a week. I'll use any tool that maximises the efficiency of my limited painting time, and so far an airbrush has been by far the most helpful.

@ az you've done a great job on that chain around the edging of the plates. Very neatly applied.

Nothing more complicated than planning where it needed to go in the build stage and liberal application of glue, but thanks!

OP, Betteridge's law of headlines is definitely at work here in your thread title. If you aren't familiar with the it, Betteridge's law is a journalism adage that states: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."


Anyways, airbrushed aren't easy or bad or cheating or whatever else. So a person paid for some work that think isn't that good... So what?

I don't know, it's all art to me. Airbrushes, brushes and paints are all just tools to be used as the artist sees fit.

I've only been painting since January or so, and am in absolute awe of people that can do what they do on this site with an airbrush, paint brush and/or combination of both.

I'm working up the nerve to consider starting to learn to airbrush, but I still have so much to learn with my painting with a brush yet, I think it's better to focus on one thing, get really good at it (or at least satisfied to a point) then move on to something to compliment the skill.

Meh i would rather see a bad air brush job any day then people putting shim-shams on there black armour with grey and saying detail...... No it looks like black armour with no depth with a grey trim now a shine just a gakky shim-sham.

Err.... what's a shim-sham and how are people putting them on black armour?

I use an airbrush to apply the base colours to all my armies before going into the detailed parts of the model with a brush. I can't imagine not having an airbrush now that I've used one for about 2 years. It makes the initial painting stage so much easier and quick. I can base colour an entire army in a single night. The rest of the painting takes months, sometimes years.

Also have you seen the size of miniatures these days? I could never imagine painting flat surfaces that large and not having it come out super chunky.

Also I would never even attempt to paint White or Yellow without the use of an airbrush.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Err.... what's a shim-sham and how are people putting them on black armour?

apperantly it is a swear word.... Go figure, rim work? Maybe that will be allowed lol. I tried it with job first.

Long story short putting a bright colour contrast along the rim makes your models look like toys or cartoons.

Shim-sham?



OP, It's just down to taste, I don't like certain painting styles just like I don't like certain styles of music. I airbrush but I airbrush to match my own painting style.

I always do my base-coats with the airbrush, but you'd probably never know...

OgreChubbs wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Err.... what's a shim-sham and how are people putting them on black armour?

apperantly it is a swear word.... Go figure, rim work? Maybe that will be allowed lol. I tried it with job first.

Long story short putting a bright colour contrast along the rim makes your models look like toys or cartoons.

Oh I see, the bad language filter kicked in

Edge highlighting has it's place and can be realistic, because light does naturally pick up on the edges of an object, but like anything it takes some practice to get it right and it's best combined with other forms of shading and weathering.

Airbrushing is a tool or technique, like magic dip or dry-brushing or weathering powders.

If commission painters can use it to get more stuff out the door quicker to willing paying customers, surely it's better for everyone.

IDK about most people but if I buy painted armies it isn't for the quality, it's for the saving of time. I paint very basic stuff for myself, and I"m happy with it.

 Desubot wrote:


I personally hate the over done OSL and sloppy contrast work. but damnit if it isnt nice for painting large amounts of yellow and varnishing without the risk of frosting.

This a thousand times. I think that the 'glow' is way over done. Some do seem to make every port or cable or depression glow, and violently. Half the time it isn't applied right, "Light Doesn't Work That Way!" seems to be something that I wish to shout sometimes, but it's something that people seem to think is right, like the GW Red period. Oh well, it is what it is.

 Desubot wrote:
but damnit if it isnt nice for painting large amounts of yellow and varnishing without the risk of frosting.

Just to destroy your confidence, I've had 2 bad pots of Vallejo acrylic varnish that caused frosting probably about 50% of the time even when sprayed in nice weather with my AB. It's why I ended up swapping to their polyurethane varnishes.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
but damnit if it isnt nice for painting large amounts of yellow and varnishing without the risk of frosting.

Just to destroy your confidence, I've had 2 bad pots of Vallejo acrylic varnish that caused frosting probably about 50% of the time even when sprayed in nice weather with my AB. It's why I ended up swapping to their polyurethane varnishes.

Oh darn... I was just starting to LOVE the Vallejo Air Gloss and Matt Varnishes through my airbrush... I'm not certain the 'Air' version is Acrylic though is it? ...I always thin it with Vallejo thinner, haven't had an issue yet but I haven't gone through too many bottles either.

The Vallejo Game Varnish (paint on) version is definitely acrylic and I mix that with water, works fine.

This was just labelled "Gloss/Satin/Matte Varnish" with "100% acrylic resin" written at the top. The matte is listed as 70.520. I always thinned it with Vallejo thinner and mixed it well before use.

Maybe the "air" range is more reliable, I haven't tried it. I now use their polyurethane varnish, which I believed is designed more for RC cars, sprayed through my AB thinned reasonably heavily with Vallejo thinner.

Oh yeah the line that starts with 70 is that odd black-background white-letters Vallejo, not Air, not Game and not Model...

Game is definitely water-based and mixes great with water, but I've never used in airbrush. The Air version I'm not sure, but works great with Vallejo thinner.

I use liquidtex with no issues as well as lacquer with no issues

Oh good, this thread again.

I look forward to the following groups;

1. People too poor to buy an airbrush who then think they're ~elite~ for using only a brush
2. People who point to obviously horrible OSL jobs and blame all airbrushes
3. People that try to explain it is just a tool who then get brow beaten by the above groups.

Unfortunately, rational people that don't care tend to avoid these threads - you're better off comparing religions.

EDIT: Sorry, wasn't having a go at any previous comments or posters, but god these threads end up ugly. I'm also tired and grumpy.

 JamesY wrote:
It's a recurring discussion. You watch talented people make it look easy on youtube and assume it's easy. It took me two years to really develop a good understanding of the relationship between psi, paint/fluid ratios, cone size and distance to achieve a half decent blend. Three armies painted as practice. That's a lot of trial and error.

This sums it up so well for me. This is why my airbrushing skills are pretty average, Set and forget my psi and basically just mix some paint and thinner until it comes out without spattering everywhere.

Another thing that has really got me back into painting is my airbrush. Is it because of the nice clean blends it can do? Hells no, its because I can now do a tank in less than 15 hours instead of painstakingly layering colours bit by bit with scraggly brush marks over my tank panels.

Theres definitely a skill involved with airbrushing but imo (weather it be bristle or air) 75% is all about knowing which colours compliment what and how to layer the correct colours to achieve the correct effect. Part of the problem the op may have too, is that the majority of what i see in the showcase forum is all warhammer which is all nice and vibrant and brightly coloured. Which allows for these strange super contrasting schemes that you see. I like some of the "that looks like it hasz never seen a bristle" and some of it just looks out right odd but it all looks cool.

You can do some real zaney things with an airbrush that the scale military modelers rarely get to try.

I still cant stand airbrushed osl stuff. Not because i think it looks crap but because when i was about 14 i saw a pic of some osl which had been done with all sorts of different shades and glazes and it looked freaking cool and deep. 1 colour airbrushed osl falls really flat and thats the only real criticism i have with some of the comission work i see. But saying that, im sure a lot of them could paint real sharp osl if thats what the customer asked for.

kb_lock wrote:
Oh good, this thread again.

I look forward to the following groups;

1. People too poor to buy an airbrush who then think they're ~elite~ for using only a brush
2. People who point to obviously horrible OSL jobs and blame all airbrushes
3. People that try to explain it is just a tool who then get brow beaten by the above groups.

Unfortunately, rational people that don't care tend to avoid these threads - you're better off comparing religions.

EDIT: Sorry, wasn't having a go at any previous comments or posters, but god these threads end up ugly. I'm also tired and grumpy.

There, there. Do you need a big hug??