11 year old shoots toddler, Father convicted of manslaughter

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**d-usa**

Via CNN:

Accused child shooter's father convicted of manslaughter

(CNN) — It was a shocking case that drew national media coverage. An 11-year-old Detroit boy was accused of fatally shooting a 3-year-old last year with his father's gun.

On Wednesday, the 11-year-old's father was convicted of involuntary manslaughter and a felony firearm charge, a prosecutor said.

Curry Bryson will be sentenced on April 20, said Maria Miller, an assistant prosecuting attorney for Wayne County, Michigan.

Bryson was acquitted of second-degree child abuse.

"Bryson was shocked when he heard the verdict," Bryson's attorney, Jerome P. Barney, told CNN. "We didn't expect conviction."

Bryson's son, police said, shot the 3-year-old boy in a car parked behind his father's Detroit residence in August.

Barney told the Detroit News last year that Bryson was not home at the time of the shooting; two other adults were there, the attorney said. Bryson is a good father who takes care of his son, Barney told the newspaper.

"The facts of the case are ... Curry wasn't at home when this happened," Barney told CNN. "He was at work and got a call (about) what happened."

Prosecutors said last year that the boy took the handgun from his father's bedroom closet, threw it out a window, retrieved it and got in the car.

A short time later, the 3-year-old entered the same vehicle, prosecutors said.

It's unclear what happened after both boys were inside the vehicle, but the younger child was shot once in the face and killed.

"He always had a smile on his face, always smiling, and he loved his sisters," Denishia Walker, mother of 3-year-old Elijah Walker, said in August.

She described the older boy's family as friends of her family.

The 11-year-old initially faced manslaughter and felony firearm charges in connection with the death, but he was cleared of the charges after he was diagnosed as developmentally disabled, Barney said.

**oldravenman3025**

The father is getting exactly what he deserves. He needs to pull felony time for leaving a firearm where that kid could get to it. Especially, when the guy wasn't home to supervise the kid.

I would say it's just another day in the Detroit Demilitarized Zone. But carelessness knows no geographical boundaries.

**Ouze**

d-usa wrote:
Bryson's Lawyer wrote:Bryson is a good father who takes care of his son, Barney told the newspaper.

Is he, though? Is he?

**d-usa**

Ouze wrote:
d-usa wrote:
Bryson's Lawyer wrote:Bryson is a good father who takes care of his son, Barney told the newspaper.

Is he, though? Is he?

Didn't you notice that the charge of child abuse did not stick, so he must be a good parent.

Unlike these guys:

(CNN) — The parents of a toddler have been charged with child abuse after their 3-year-old son shot them both, according to a New Mexico criminal complaint.

The shooting happened last Saturday afternoon at a motel in Albuquerque, New Mexico. The couple was shot apparently after the child grabbed a .45-caliber handgun from his mother's purse and fired one shot, striking both his father and his pregnant mother.

Both parents were arrested Thursday on a charge of child abuse without great bodily harm, according to a state criminal complaint. The boy and his 2-year-old sister, who also was in the room, were not injured in the incident.

**Vaktathi**

Hrm, not sure I agree with this verdict. Yes, he did an irresponsible thing with a firearm, but there were other adults there at the time who should have had far more responsibility concerning the child's actions, and the kid went out of the way to plan how to obtain possession of the firearm, the latter fact is what really nicks me here, if a kid is going to wait till the father is gone, retrieve the weapon, get it outside without the other adults noticing, and go play in a car with it, kid probably could have figured out where a key for a lock was at some point too. If someone is aware of something, really wants it, and has physical access to it, locked up or no, they can probably eventually get it. Same reason no IT professional or Locksmith is going to guarantee data security against someone with physical access to a device. Had the kid been alone and immediately accidentally shot himself or the like, then I'd say the verdict might be just, but when there's multiple other adults there that missed everything, and the kid knows about and *really* wants the gun, it's hard to stick it to the father like this, to my mind at least.

**sebster**

Vaktathi wrote:
kid probably could have figured out where a key for a lock was at some point too. If someone is aware of something, really wants it, and has physical access to it, locked up or no, they can probably eventually get it. If someone is aware of something, really wants it, and has physical access to it, locked up or no, they can probably eventually get it. Same reason no IT professional or Locksmith is going to guarantee data security against someone with physical access to a device.

No set of locks is going to prevent break in, but insurance companies will still require locks before they insure you, because those locks are effective in greatly reducing the likelihood of break in. That's the central principal here - increased measures will never reduce the chance to zero, but they will greatly reduce the overall chance.

What you're arguing, in effect, is that it becomes okay to make no effort, or minimal effort, at prevention, because it's possible that greater prevention might not have worked anyway. I don't see how any legal system, or society in general, can work on that concept.

Instead I think this establishes a pretty reasonable standard – if you bring a gun in to a situation and take little to no measures to ensure that gun doesn’t end up in the hands of a child, you’re responsible for what the child does with that gun.

**Howard A Treesong**

It's not clear what 'developmentally disabled' is a euphemism for here, but stuff like this tends not to just happen completely out the blue. If the 11 year old had 'issues' then the gun should have been more secure because he couldn't be trusted not to do something crazy. The thought that went into stealing the gun and getting it outside without other adults seeing it seems very concerning to me.

**Dreadclaw69**

I agree that the father should be held responsible for negligently leaving his firearm where a child had ready access, but are the other two adults who were in proximity (the father was at work) when the child was shot being charged with anything?

**ScootyPuffJunior**

Dreadclaw69 wrote:
I agree that the father should be held responsible for negligently leaving his firearm where a child had ready access, but are the other two adults who were in proximity (the father was at work) when the child was shot being charged with anything?

It could be possible that they were unaware of the firearm being stored unsecurely.

**djones520**

Very sticky topic... but I guess this mother should be charged with manslaughter as well then, based on the postings here.

http://www.people.com/article/teen-boy-shoots-kills-burglar-south-carolina

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

The 11-year-old initially faced manslaughter and felony firearm charges in connection with the death,

Don't you guys have laws in the USA that says that children don't get charged for this sort of thing, because they're minors and thus not legally responsible for their actions with regards to crime.

Seems totally different to how we handle this sort of thing in Britain and Europe...

**djones520**

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The 11-year-old initially faced manslaughter and felony firearm charges in connection with the death,

Don't you guys have laws in the USA that says that children don't get charged for this sort of thing, because they're minors and thus not legally responsible for their actions with regards to crime.

Seems totally different to how we handle this sort of thing in Britain and Europe...

No, they are just handled differently. Being below 18 doesn't give you a free pass.

**Do_I_Not_Like_That**

djones520 wrote:
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
The 11-year-old initially faced manslaughter and felony firearm charges in connection with the death,

Don't you guys have laws in the USA that says that children don't get charged for this sort of thing, because they're minors and thus not legally responsible for their actions with regards to crime.

Seems totally different to how we handle this sort of thing in Britain and Europe...

No, they are just handled differently. Being below 18 doesn't give you a free pass.

Not saying that it gives anybody a free pass, but comparing other first world nations, the age of criminal responsibility ranges from 14-18 depending on the country.

With the USA being a first world democracy, I thought they would have something similar, which was why I expressed surprise at it being lower in the USA.

**djones520**

I'm not boned up on the specifics, but it seems to be a case by case basis. I've seen a lot of minors charged as adults for the more egregious things.

In this case, by the kid throwing the gun out the window before going downstairs to retrieve it, shows he knew he was doing something wrong, since he didn't want the other adults to see him with it. He totally should be facing charges for this.

**Guildenstern**

normally don't post in these things but I do have a serious question. I realize they most likely can't release the 3 yo's identity and I'm the first, as a mother of three boys, to understand that sometimes your kids are just seriously good at escaping your care... but really, where were this child's parents? This is what is really most upsetting to me. Yes, guns can be bad and kids playing with guns as we've seen time and again, is horrible. But knowing how the 3 yo was left unsupervised, that's important.

Talking about unsupervised, I dislike the way the father is reported in the above. It implies he should not have been at work. How else do you provide for your child? Maybe the other two adults were supposed to be watching the 11 yo. Who knows.

I just really really dislike the way our media tends to 'report' the news. Sigh. This is only one example.

**CptJake**

Guildenstern wrote:
normally don't post in these things but I do have a serious question. I realize they most likely can't release the 3 yo's identity and I'm the first, as a mother of three boys, to understand that sometimes your kids are just seriously good at escaping your care... but really, where were this child's parents? This is what is really most upsetting to me. Yes, guns can be bad and kids playing with guns as we've seen time and again, is horrible. But knowing how the 3 yo was left unsupervised, that's important.

Talking about unsupervised, I dislike the way the father is reported in the above. It implies he should not have been at work. How else do you provide for your child? Maybe the other two adults were supposed to be watching the 11 yo. Who knows.

I just really really dislike the way our media tends to 'report' the news. Sigh. This is only one example.

I too was wondering why a 3 year old was playing in a car with an 11 year old. Not a lot of potential good available in that scenario at all. Who ever was supposed to be supervising that poor 3 year old kid failed miserably.

**treslibras**

djones520 wrote:
I'm not boned up on the specifics, but it seems to be a case by case basis. I've seen a lot of minors charged as adults for the more egregious things.

In this case, by the kid throwing the gun out the window before going downstairs to retrieve it, shows he knew he was doing something wrong, since he didn't want the other adults to see him with it. He totally should be facing charges for this.

I agree TOTALLY, he should get locked away for 10 years minimum. That will surely help A KID realize he did something wrong. Because blowing away his toddler brother's face surely did not much of an impression...

On topic: "Easy access to unsecured firearms is a deciding factor in a majority of unintentional child gun deaths," [...] "These tragedies are entirely preventable, but many states have yet to adopt policies that would make it harder for children to access negligently stored firearms." (http://everytown.org/)

**CptJake**

treslibras wrote:

On topic: "Easy access to unsecured firearms is a deciding factor in a majority of unintentional child gun deaths," [...] "These tragedies are entirely preventable, but many states have yet to adopt policies that would make it harder for children to access negligently stored firearms." (http://everytown.org/)

Okay, so if the law mandated the gun owner kept the gun unloaded in a safe locked up inside another safe locked up inside a steel vault of a room, and the ammo stored separately under similar conditions, how would tragedies like this be prevented? Do you think law enforcement should be able to come into the homes of all gun owners and spot check their storage methods?

The reality is, some feth head will leave his/her gun accessible and some kid may die as a result. In this particular case, even if the law had mandated some storage mechanism even you would approve of, if the parent does not follow the law, all the law does is give the prosecutor something else to charge. Being convicted of manslaughter and a felony weapon charge ought to be enough to cover that, no?

The key to how dumb the argument is in this part of what you quoted:

make it harder for children to access negligently stored firearms

It will never be harder for children to access negligently stored firearms. If they are negligently stored, kids can get access. No policy or law is going to make it harder to access a negligently stored firearm. Negligently stored already implies some liability if some event occurs due to the method of storage, hence the term 'negligently'.

**Silent Puffin?**

CptJake wrote:
Do you think law enforcement should be able to come into the homes of all gun owners and spot check their storage methods?

Do they not already? If not why not?

**kronk**

Guns should never be left where anyone can get to them except for the owner, let alone an 11 year old with developmental issues.

Sad story, all around.

**Nostromodamus**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
CptJake wrote:
Do you think law enforcement should be able to come into the homes of all gun owners and spot check their storage methods?

Do they not already? If not why not?

No they don't, because they can only come into your home with good reason and a warrant. If the police suspect you are leaving loaded firearms in easy reach of children they are welcome to try to get a warrant, but otherwise they are required to keep their nose out of your business. This isn't the UK where you have to agree to police inspection in order to own a firearm.

Also due to little or no requirement for firearm registration, there's often no way they would even know who owned a gun and who didn't. Even if there was a registry, it would be a huge cost in terms of finances and manpower to have officers constantly going around checking people's houses, due to the large number of firearm owners in the US compared to the UK.

**Chief Tugboat**

I was about to post pretty much what CptJake said.

The only way to reduce these kinds of incidents, is through proper education (read parenting) where if you decide to be a gun owner, involve your children from an early age on gun safety. From my first cap gun my dad bought me, I was in training. He watched and observed how I handled it, and reprimanded me when I misused it. Instilled a great amount of respect for firearms, and to this day, I'm still not comfortable with my guns.

Of course there will always be people who don't take owning firearms seriously, and we will have to read about them in the news.

Proper education, it really is that simple.

**Kilkrazy**

What is the NRA's advice on gun storage?

**Silent Puffin?**

Nostromodamus wrote:

No they don't, because they can only come into your home with good reason

That's a very good reason.

**CptJake**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
Nostromodamus wrote:

No they don't, because they can only come into your home with good reason

That's a very good reason.

Not good enough to override the 4th amendment to our constitution.

**Nostromodamus**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
Nostromodamus wrote:

No they don't, because they can only come into your home with good reason

That's a very good reason.

Like I said in the part you didn't quote, if the police suspect you are letting kids get hold of loaded firearms, they are welcome to try to get a warrant.

**kronk**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
Nostromodamus wrote:

No they don't, because they can only come into your home with good reason

That's a very good reason.

We have this thing called Due Process in the US. If the police want to come into my home, they certainly can IF they have a search warrant or have established probable cause.

**CptJake**

Kilkrazy wrote:
What is the NRA's advice on gun storage?

From: https://eddieeagle.nra.org/parents/

We encourage you as a responsible parent and citizen to reinforce these ideas by repeating this message and discussing it with your child. According to federal statistics, there are guns in approximately 40% of all U.S. households. Even if you do not have a firearm in your home, chances are that someone you know does. Your child could come in contact with a gun at a neighbor's house, when playing with friends, or under other circumstances outside of your control. We encourage you as a responsible parent and citizen today to...

Make sure all firearms cannot be reached by anyone who should not have access to them without your consent. Store guns so they are not accessible to unauthorized persons, especially children.
Keep ammunition securely stored where a child or any other unauthorized person cannot reach it.
Talk to your child about guns, and gun safety. By removing the mystery surrounding guns, your child will be far less curious about guns, and more likely to follow safety rules.
Make sure your child understands the difference between a toy gun and a real gun, and the difference between "pretend" and real life.
In a home where guns are kept, the degree of safety a child has rests squarely on the parents and gun owner. Parents who accept the responsibility to learn, practice and teach gun safety rules will ensure their child's safety to a much greater extent than those who do not. Parental responsibility does not end, however, when the child leaves the home. That is why it is critical for your child to know what to do if he or she encounters a firearm. The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® program has no agenda other than accident prevention -- ensuring that children stay safe should they encounter a gun.

And: https://eddieeagle.nra.org/faqs/

What are Gun Owners’ Responsibilities?

Most states impose some form of legal duty on adults to take reasonable steps to deny access by children to dangerous substances or instruments. It is the individual gun owner’s responsibility to understand and follow all federal and state laws regarding gun purchase, ownership, storage, transport, etc. Contact your state police and/or local law enforcement agency for information specific to your state.

It is the parent’s responsibility to ensure that guns are stored safely. NRA’s longstanding rule of gun storage is to store your guns so that they are inaccessible to any unauthorized users, especially your children and the children that visit your home. Gun shops sell a wide variety of safes, cases, and other security devices. While specific security measure may vary, a parent must, in every case, assess the exposure of the firearm and absolutely ensure that it is inaccessible to a child.

**Nostromodamus**

Kilkrazy wrote:
What is the NRA's advice on gun storage?

http://training.nra.org/nra-gun-safety-rules.aspx

**Kilkrazy**

There you go. NRA advice is to store the guns and ammo inaccessibly to children and unauthorised persons (i.e. locked up.)

This guy obviously failed to follow the proper advice.