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So, I'm new to Warhammer 40,000, and I'm looking to build my very own army. I have a fifth edition general rulebook as graciously given to me by a friend, and my chosen specialization(?) is Chaos Space Marines, though I am also considering the Adeptus Astartes as well.

Advice on this would be very welcome, as well as help choosing which Chaos God to further specialize in. Even if this gets no replies, Thanks in advance!

You do not have to choose one god if you don't want to. You can choose an undivided warband that has access to all in different ways if you wanted.

Take this with some salt. But Chaos are not doing so hot at the moment rule wise.

They still have some cool gimmicks and can be fun to play but don't expect to win a lot. I say this as a Chaos player.

Also, WELCOME!

You'll want to get the 7th edition rulebook, for one. While most of the concepts are the same (roll To-Hit, roll To-Wound, Make Saving Throw), there are a lot of differences.

I can't advise you what army to take, but I would suggest you read some of the threads here concerning tactics before buying a lot of stuff.

Also, go through the Painting and Modeling Showcase subforum and look at models from each faction.

Look at models you would like to assemble and paint, what color scheme you would like, etc. To be honest, you'll spend 20x the amount of time building and painting as you will playing. So keep that in mind.

Ask questions here, make lists before you buy models, decide what would be fun for you and go from there.

Happy gaming!

Edit: If winning games is important to you, Space Marines are much stronger than the current Chaos Space Marine codex.

Welcome to Dakka and welcome to 40k!

Given that your chosen faction is CSM, be prepared for people to try and talk you out of it - the CSM codex is (I believe) the oldest codex still in use (it came out just after 6th). If you're aiming to be competitive / go to tournaments, it's going to be tough (up hill, both ways, in the snow). But if you're just aiming for casual games between friends, it should be fine. Are you picking Chaos because you really like the models? Really like the fluff? Or something else?

The 5th edition tome is (if I recall) rather full of good fluff and modelling / painting bits, so even though we're now in 7th it's still useful. I'd recommend looking on auction sites (such as eBay) for the A5 sized softcover rulebook - you should be able to pick it up for a minimum of cash, and it's really portable to take to games. If the people you're going to be playing against will be keeping the 5th edition rules, ignore this paragraph.

You don't have to pick just one Chaos god - you can make an army using a combination of all four. It's really about what you want to do. If you do decide to go mono Nurgle is probably top of the pile (+1T is useful almost all of the time), Slaneesh mark is situational but allows access to a good Icon, Khorne is good for melee-centric units (obviously), whilst Tzeench is the most situational (anything that doesn't ignore your armor isn't going to notice the difference). If you do go with Khorne look into the Khorne Daemonkin Codex, which is sort of a stand-alone spin-off of the CSM/CD codexes based entirely on Khorne.

Another thing to think about is Daemon allies - if you don't go with the Khorne Daemonkin army you can still add standard Daemons to your CSM as an allied detachment.

Well, first, thanks so much for replying!

Second, I chose the CSMs purely because even before I was introduced to The Imperium of Man, I was introduced to The Ruinous Powers. My introductory friend, who promptly decided to disappear on me, was a fan of Slaanesh and the Chaos Space Marines. I personally was enamored by and am still falling in love with the lore, myself, and it is with the lore that I busied myself before being taken by the tabletop game.

A question I'd like to ask, is why is it that people will try to talk me out of CSM?

And also, were I to choose Astartes instead, do I absolutely have to choose the Ultramarines? I and my vanishing friend call/called them the Mary Sue division of the Space Marines.

DeathstrokeSW wrote:
A question I'd like to ask, is why is it that people will try to talk me out of CSM?

Currently the Rules for the CSM are still from the last edition (6th) and have not been updated to reflect new rules as many other factions have. It is considered by some to be very underwhelming and the factions with updated rules can very easily over power you.

People will also talk you out of it for the reasons above and you may not win games at all and become discouraged.

Some Reading for you that may help in unit choices or at least give you an overview of everything.: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Chaos_Space_Marines(7E)

DeathstrokeSW wrote:

1. A question I'd like to ask, is why is it that people will try to talk me out of CSM?

2. And also, were I to choose Astartes instead, do I absolutely have to choose the Ultramarines? I and my vanishing friend call/called them the Mary Sue division of the Space Marines.

1. People that talk you out of it will most likely point out that CSM is a very weak codex. i.e., not very competitive. Anything they can do, Space Marines can do better, and probably cheaper. However, I built a CSM army (about 2000 points) knowing fully well it wasn't that competitive. I like the look of the army, and the fluff.

2. No. I have 3 space marine armies. 1 large Black Templars army (10,000 points painted), a small Crimson Fists army (about 2500 points), and a Horus Heresy Imperial Fists army that I could use in 40k, if I wanted (2000 ponts). I have no intention of ever making an UltraMarines army, but not because of any "Mary Sue" silliness. I'm just not interested in them, and I already have 2 blue armies. They do have a competitive Chapter Tactic, and lots of special characters. Play what you want to play.

2b. You can even make up your own Chaos Space Marine renegades or Space Marine Chapter. Pick a color scheme and back story and go with it!


You can find a ton of Space Marine chapters here: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Space_Marine_Chapters

You can find a ton of Traitor Legion and Renegade Space Marines here: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Traitor_Legions_%26_Renegade_Space_Marine_Warbands

So when it comes to HQ, do I have to use an unnamed HQ character or can I use a recognizable character like Typhus or Khaine?

I ask because the wording of the book is confusing me.

DeathstrokeSW wrote:
So when it comes to HQ, do I have to use an unnamed HQ character or can I use a recognizable character like Typhus or Khaine?

I ask because the wording of the book is confusing me.

The codex for the space marines (or whatever faction) will help you with that. You can use an normal Librarian, Chapter Master, Captain, or Librarian for your HQ or you can use a named one. It's 100% up to you. The named guys are (generally speaking) stronger, but cost more points.

The only real limitation is if you're trying to run a specific formation. Those might have restrictions.

It sounds like your head is in the right place on your reasons for choosing an army. Never buy based on the current power of an army. That can and will change. Put together the models you like and the ones you like to play with. Given your army choices, I'd strongly recommend the Dark Vengeance set. It has a mixture of Chaos units and Dark Angels, so it'll give you an idea of what each side plays like. It also has a mini rulebook. You'll still need to get a full 7th edition rulebook eventually, but it'll get you by.

 EnTyme wrote:
It sounds like your head is in the right place on your reasons for choosing an army. Never buy based on the current power of an army. That can and will change. Put together the models you like and the ones you like to play with. Given your army choices, I'd strongly recommend the Dark Vengeance set. It has a mixture of Chaos units and Dark Angels, so it'll give you an idea of what each side plays like. It also has a mini rulebook. You'll still need to get a full 7th edition rulebook eventually, but it'll get you by.

This is good advice.

You'll also get scatter dice, templates, and whippy sticks!

I honestly am leaning more towards Typhus as my Lord-Commander or Warmaster, backed by a mix of Plague Marines and Black Legion as infantry. Beyond that I don't know what my options are and Daemons don't really appeal to me.

On a side note, I totally have my eye on the Dark Vengeance set.

DeathstrokeSW wrote:
I honestly am leaning more towards Typhus as my Lord-Commander or Warmaster, backed by a mix of Plague Marines and Black Legion as infantry. Beyond that I don't know what my options are and Daemons don't really appeal to me.

On a side note, I totally have my eye on the Dark Vengeance set.

The horde of Zombie Cultists that you can make with Typhus make good meat shields too

As for Elites, And as far as I understand it, Elites are your special forces units or heavy assault? I very much love the Terminators, and will definitely have a squad of them menacingly placed upon the field. I'm also the kind of guy who would personally name every single model he has and create a backstory for them as well as his entire legion as well. I'm an RPer, so weaving a story makes it fun as well.

Also remember, there are solid rumors that CSM will get their new codex early next year, or possibly earlier.

IF this rumor is true, then by the time your army is built you MIGHT have a competitive book.

The new book might still be weak, of course. But at least there is a chance for competitiveness, and in the next 9 months or so you wouldn't win that often anyway no matter what army you picked, as it takes a long time to get good at this game.

You are also in a good spot right now to pick up CSM.

since you take Typhus you can take Plague marines as troops and not elite.

Nice! That means I can put Chaos Terminators in as Elites!

Just keep in mind they are Pricey so you do not want to load up on them too much.

And you may already know this, but the General Rule Book only covers the basics in terms of Army Composition. You will need to pick up a Faction Codex (and potentially a Supplement for more Detachments) to get a real feel for how to build your army. Some Characters/Squads have special rules too (i.e. Dedicated Transports do not take up slots in Force Organization Chart, can combine into one large squad, etc.), so keep that in mind prior to outfitting your Army.

I'd go with the Chapter that seems the most interesting, or one that has a color scheme that you will enjoy painting. You will spend a TON of time building/painting, so there is no sense in being stuck with something you do not enjoy. Chaos adds another level with their Gods, so you have to decide on how you actually want to fight. SM have a similar setup, and even their armies vary depending on which route you go (Speed, Tanks, Rhinos/Drop Pods, etc.).

I managed to get a copy of the Black Legion codex, I hope that counts.

So, as I understand it currently, it goes something like this, and correct me if I'm wrong:

HQ(For me, I'm going with Typhus the Traveler)

Another HQ is optional, says the black legion codex.

Elite Troops (I'm thinking Chaos Terminators)

Infantry(Typhus allows me to have Plague Marines as infantry, I think)

Heavy support (I'm lost on this one)

And something else.

 EnTyme wrote:
It also has a mini rulebook. You'll still need to get a full 7th edition rulebook eventually, but it'll get you by.

I've never heard this before. What exactly is the mini rulebook missing that the big one has?

As far as CSM goes, Nurgle is probably the strongest flavour right now. They're not the most competitive but they've got loads of character. Look to pick up the older Codices if you can find them cheap enough. Some of the old campaign books like Codex: Eye of Terror are great as well. Easily worth the $5-10 you'll pay for the background and fluff alone.

First- the mini rulebook has all the basic rules you need to play. The main rulebook has fluff that the mini rulebook does not have, but has all the same rules.
The Black Legion is a codex supplement, not a codex in itself. You will still need the CSM codex for the special rules and stats for a CSM army. The supplement only gives you a few basic formations and some wargear and warlord traits. Other than that it is all fluff.

I have over 50k points of Chaos. They are not the strongest army by any means, in fact, probably the weakest. They have a ton of flavor and can be real fun to model and play in non-competetive environments.
Don't worry too much about a universal color scheme for your army.. The very nature of a CSM army is that of various warbands banded together... An army of all Berzerkers won't be very good and can be done better with the Daemonkin codex. An army of either all Thousand Sons or noise marines will be way overpriced points wise and will get wiped out pretty easy... An army of plague marines is the only viable option if you are going for a themed army that doesn't contain all different types of units.
Chaos armies that aren't all comprised of the same cult troops are not supposed to have a universal paint scheme, regardless of what loyalist players tell you.

DeathstrokeSW wrote:
I managed to get a copy of the Black Legion codex, I hope that counts.

It all depends where you play. When you say "copy", did you mean you actually bought the book or got a download? Don't reply since the answer depends where you play. You play at home you can do what ever you want but at a GW store you can't use illegal downloads in their store, or at tourneys and most cases Friendly Local Gaming Stores. Now if you bought it or bowered a copy then it's a different story.

I know when I play strangers, it's bring your legal codex since there are a few people out there who like to cheat and you never know if something was "doctored" or "changed" in the illegal book. Also while Battlescribe is great to make armies, don't rely on them unless you have your real codex with you as well since it makes mistakes from time to time. Playing at home, then forget everything I said since it's a moot point and do what ever you and your friends/opponents like.

No, a friend is just letting me borrow her Codices until I can get my own. She normally plays the Adepta Sororitas and was happy to let me borrow her Chaos books.

 Vash108 wrote:
You do not have to choose one god if you don't want to. You can choose an undivided warband that has access to all in different ways if you wanted.

Take this with some salt. But Chaos are not doing so hot at the moment rule wise.

They still have some cool gimmicks and can be fun to play but don't expect to win a lot. I say this as a Chaos player.

Also, WELCOME!

Chaos Marines are the second worst faction by themselves. If your more pan chaos and willing to make a list with Chaos Deamon, Marines, Chaos Knights/Renegade Knights and maybe some Chaos Renegades (army from FW) they really have some options to make a half decent list that you can expect to win with in a casual environment. Just don't be expecting to take Chaos to the ITC unless its a Chaos Deamons list.

Deathstroke,

One very important thing to consider is who you will be playing, and how. There is a rather heavy bias on Dakka for tournament players. Thus everything boils down to "cost vs. effectiveness", list-building, etc. etc.

None of that matters if you want to play with a few friends, have a good time, learn the rules. If you want to play some narrative campaigns or play custom-built scenarios, you can ignore all of the "competitive" speak here on the forums and elsewhere.

If you are anxious to attend tournaments, that's another story - but keep in mind there are many ways to play 40K. Some people play 40K using the models and completely different rules. Some people use 40K models to play older editions (all the way back to 1st edition, or "Rogue Trader"). Some people use 40K models to run skirmish games based off the old GW game Inquisitor (a 54mm scale RPG-heavy game).

If you look at to attend game stores and pick up games with strangers - prepare to meet a fair mix of overly competitive jerks. Find a couple of people who don't seem like jerks and are willing to play and teach you the rules. 40K attracts more younger players than most other wargames of its type.

So, before you get started, what are you looking for in the game? What attracted you to it?

Personally, I'm attracted to the lore and narrative of 40k and I love RPGs, as well as of the few battle reports I've seen on YouTube, the standard game itself.

I'm more of a Khornate kind of player when it comes down to sheer strategy, but I love the Nurglite models, and Typhus in particular has caught my interest. If I was able to find people to play RPG style games, or narrative campaigns, then great! But so far, no one in my area/that I live with plays or is interested in 40k.

Primarily, the lore is what got me into 40k and I'd like to bring the lore and story of 40k into the games I play

do yourself a favor and look on eBay,Craigslist, bartertown,dakka swapshop for used models. People are dropping 40k over the years like a bad habit so second hand models are easy to find. Also some game stores sell used models. A bottle of simple green, bucket, and a toothbrush will save you a bunch of money stripping paint off used models.
There are also lots of 3rd party model companies that produce chaos parts. Don't be afraid to get away from GW,plus makes your army look unique.
If GW paints,tools,glue and such are out of your price range luckily there are a bunch of cheaper and better paints and products. P3, Vallejo model color, vallejo game colors (old GW colors), armypainter, reaper, plus cheap craft paints.
Elmer's glue is white glue used for basing your models.
Sand can be bought at a hardware store by the pound bag

Agreed with Chute.

You can find GW minis at discount at online retailers, and pretty much stay away from ANYTHING in the GW line of modeling tools. Their paints are okay if you need to match a certain colour.

Ebay is great and stripping models is very easy and rewarding. A lot of the cost can be removed from the game if you're just starting. Do you have any experience modeling or painting/assembling miniatures?

If you're feeling really cheap + ambitious, you could probably Green Stuff the entire Dark Angels contingent of Dark Vengeance into some pretty sweet plague marines. Nurgle Bikes, in particular, are pretty nasty, as normal weapons only wound them on 6's.