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I was just curious to know if I'm the only one who thinks that some of the background/lore/fiction is too extreme.

My case is about the primarch Vulkan; I haven't read the material myself, but I understand that Vulkan and others of the same kind are sort of invulnerable, so no matter what you do to them they will re-materialize. In my optics this is a completely different league of "unrealistic" stuff compared to anything else, I've heard about in the Warhammer 40k universe.

Do you have a similar opinion about something else from the Warhammer 40k background, which stands out from the rest of the background?

Vulken is a perpetual, there are several people who are perpetuals so its not that far fetched in 40k.

Nothing really seems too extreme honestly i mean, this is a universe where they travel through pretty much hell to get around the universe and can come out anywhere and any time.

A universe where even the slightest hint of corruption equates to the death of the whole planet.

Most GW stuff from the last 8 or 9 years is pretty garbage and increasingly far fetched. Stuff lime Perpetuals, anything Space Wolves related from the last decade, Kaldor Draigo, Brothers of the Snake, the Harry Potter Gore Hostel that the Schola Progenium is made out to be in the MT book, etc there's a lot of truly bad ideas and writing that GW has pushed out of late.

About Warp travel, I guess that was invented to avoid the situation of moving an object with mass at the speed of light or faster.

Yes, "perpetuals" was the term - to me it sounds like something over super duper fantastic from a Japanese comic.

Yeah, I really don't like the perpetuals either.

Chaospling wrote:
About Warp travel, I guess that was invented to avoid the situation of moving an object with mass at the speed of light or faster.

Yes, "perpetuals" was the term - to me it sounds like something over super duper fantastic from a Japanese comic.

Perpetuals just mean they will reconstitute, one of the stories



Warp travel is just how the imperium gets through the galaxy with out just slow boating it.

The warp and magic/psychic powers in general a rather far fetched, but we suspend disbelief for the sake of entertainment.

The time scale is way off though. I would make more sense and be more realistic if we cut a zero off all the times, but 4k does not sound as cool..

In context though, things that ignore the established natural laws of the universe are the most jarring (can you say Mat Ward?). What comes to mind it that damn GK running around the warp with impunity

I'm not keen on the perpetual fluff. A toned down version that only applies to a handful of humans wouldn't be too bad, but not a primarch.

I don't like exterminatus level weapons either. Effectively destroying surface life on planets isn't unacceptable in itself, but it would be better if that required a very large fleet blasting away at a planet for hours or even days and expending massive amounts of resources to do so. The life eater virus is OP

 Snake Tortoise wrote:
I'm not keen on the perpetual fluff. A toned down version that only applies to a handful of humans wouldn't be too bad, but not a primarch.

I don't like exterminatus level weapons either. Effectively destroying surface life on planets isn't unacceptable in itself, but it would be better if that required a very large fleet blasting away at a planet for hours or even days and expending massive amounts of resources to do so. The life eater virus is OP

HERESY! *BLAM*

But actually 9/10 times they do do orbital bombardments, the one shot weapons are for rare cases.

The most powerful of all is not the Virus bomb, but the two stage Cyclonic Torpedo, they actually explain how it works pretty well. Basiclly they fire it at the planet, it burrows down to the center of the planet then explodes, causing the atmosphere to be destroyed and the planet to crack.

I personally dislike how extremely overpowered some of the fluff makes space marines compared to the multitude of other threats out there. I tend to view it as propaganda that over exaggerates the "reality" of it but the over the top stuff seems to become the gospel for many fans. Feels like lore discussions turn into peen shaking contests or the 40k version of "my dad can beat your dad" about who can pull of the more over the top gak which saps the fun out of the setting.

Also the general tone that 40k is super serious instead of being light hearted or a parody. I love "If the Emperor had a Text to Speech Device" stuff because goes into the lore while not being too seriously and also taking the piss out of it at times.

Either brofisting crons/BA or Draigo.

Is there any explanation for how/why the emperor is getting on for 50,000 years old? Wasn't be supposed to have been born in about 6,000 BC?Seems a bit far fetched to me that he's a human, but has somehow been the only one to live more than 100 (maybe 200) years. And not outlived everyone else by a bit, but by x250 (assuming the longest human life is 200 - arbitrary - and he's about 50,000 - round numbers!!) If he's some kind of mutation, how is there only one and it's so extreme? Maybe I'm missing some fluff on this?

 Whittlesey40k wrote:
Is there any explanation for how/why the emperor is getting on for 50,000 years old? Wasn't be supposed to have been born in about 6,000 BC?Seems a bit far fetched to me that he's a human, but has somehow been the only one to live more than 100 (maybe 200) years. And not outlived everyone else by a bit, but by x250 (assuming the longest human life is 200 - arbitrary - and he's about 50,000 - round numbers!!) If he's some kind of mutation, how is there only one and it's so extreme? Maybe I'm missing some fluff on this?

Thats because he is the reincarnation of every shaman, basically wizard/pyker at the time into a single human body. When shamans fist came to be they could reincarnate them selves. But with the demons and such they needed to all come back in a single body, which is why he is immortal, and if they would ever unplug his ass he could come back because he is a perpetual.

Well it is a science fantasy setting.

they can get away with pretty much anything

except female space marines.

because thats silly

Only a million marines? In the galaxy? The fluff makes sense only if they are in the billions

I draw the line at Space Marine bikes. I absolutely love everything Imperial, I eat up the lore and the absolute insanity of it all but I find SM bikes don't really fit the aesthetic, like they're something that should have gotten axed 20 years ago and replaced with something else.

 legio_ultra wrote:
I draw the line at Space Marine bikes. I absolutely love everything Imperial, I eat up the lore and the absolute insanity of it all but I find SM bikes don't really fit the aesthetic, like they're something that should have gotten axed 20 years ago and replaced with something else.

they might be excusable if they operated more like dragoons, as basically a transport option, or something. Having them operate they way they currently do, essentially as barded heavy cavalry, is ridiculous

I don't draw the line. It's a setting that defies believability in plot and situation. The only time I look at something with the stink eye is when a person or member of a faction acts out of character without sufficient explanation.

Chaospling wrote:
About Warp travel, I guess that was invented to avoid the situation of moving an object with mass at the speed of light or faster.

That's a problem for science fiction, not science fantasy.

Although it's interesting to note that if you did travel faster than light in a proper science fiction universe, the result would actually involve you traveling backward in time to some degree.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 Whittlesey40k wrote:
Is there any explanation for how/why the emperor is getting on for 50,000 years old? Wasn't be supposed to have been born in about 6,000 BC?Seems a bit far fetched to me that he's a human, but has somehow been the only one to live more than 100 (maybe 200) years. And not outlived everyone else by a bit, but by x250 (assuming the longest human life is 200 - arbitrary - and he's about 50,000 - round numbers!!) If he's some kind of mutation, how is there only one and it's so extreme? Maybe I'm missing some fluff on this?

Thats because he is the reincarnation of every shaman, basically wizard/pyker at the time into a single human body. When shamans fist came to be they could reincarnate them selves. But with the demons and such they needed to all come back in a single body, which is why he is immortal, and if they would ever unplug his ass he could come back because he is a perpetual.

Yeah, but the total human population at the time measured only in the tens of millions, the vast majority of whom were not psykers.

Orks that can do anything under the justification of their psychic stuff, Perpetuals, SM supermen.

Everything I've come across in 40k hasn't be seen as far-fetched by myself, and that's partly because of my expectations of the settings.

As for Orks' "I fink it iz, therefore it iz", that can be described via Quantum Sorcery, albeit, it does stretch the capabilities a bit;
[Little bit of prelim on that - Electron experiment that shows electrons behave like particles and waves, they changed to exhibit exclusively one or the other if the experiment was observed]
- What can't be seen can be manipulated with Quantum Sorcery. Things exist in a multitude of Quantum states whilst un-observed.
As soon as something observes the thing in question, it immediately takes up one of those Quantum states.

It's all Schrodinger's cat with this;
My trukk may or may not have a fully functional combustion engine under the hood.
I can't see it, because it's concealed by the bodywork. If enough brain power is applied to the notion of that thing in there being a working combustion engine, it will be a working combustion engine - The parts will be forced to assume the Quantum state that entails them being together to form such a device.

Worth googling Quantum Sorcery. Interesting read regardless of whether you think it works or not.


So yes, whilst Ork magic is still a bit ridiculous, even when explained with something many will consider ridiculous, I don't see it as far-fetched, due to the expectations set by the 40k universe.

I actually like when Space Marines are portrayed as really strong.
There's just a million of them, guys. Cut them some slack.

I don't like when what limitations they do have is brushed over, however. The Marines are a power scalpel to the IG car press; they can deal with things that would make the IG buckle feebly, but ultimately they cannot conquer larger territories alone and they should cooperate with other Imperial troops a lot more than they do.

There were a couple.

The first was when Tau started getting enormous battlesuits even though their existing lore about how they didn't see the point in such things was blatantly retconned into making it so they did see the point.

The second was when Centurions became a thing and some of my Space Marines started wearing power armor over their power armor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Buddingsquaw wrote:
Everything I've come across in 40k hasn't be seen as far-fetched by myself, and that's partly because of my expectations of the settings.

As for Orks' "I fink it iz, therefore it iz", that can be described via Quantum Sorcery, albeit, it does stretch the capabilities a bit;
[Little bit of prelim on that - Electron experiment that shows electrons behave like particles and waves, they changed to exhibit exclusively one or the other if the experiment was observed]
- What can't be seen can be manipulated with Quantum Sorcery. Things exist in a multitude of Quantum states whilst un-observed.
As soon as something observes the thing in question, it immediately takes up one of those Quantum states.

It's all Schrodinger's cat with this;
My trukk may or may not have a fully functional combustion engine under the hood.
I can't see it, because it's concealed by the bodywork. If enough brain power is applied to the notion of that thing in there being a working combustion engine, it will be a working combustion engine - The parts will be forced to assume the Quantum state that entails them being together to form such a device.

Worth googling Quantum Sorcery. Interesting read regardless of whether you think it works or not.


So yes, whilst Ork magic is still a bit ridiculous, even when explained with something many will consider ridiculous, I don't see it as far-fetched, due to the expectations set by the 40k universe.

Regarding real life science, it's interesting that a possible effect of traveling through the Warp in a starship is arriving before you left, since if you could, for some reason, solve the problem of requiring infinite energy and actually travel faster than light, you would actually be traveling back in time and end up at your destination before you were expected. And if you go fast enough, you're not only arriving before you're expected, you're arriving before you left.

The new deathwatch codex has just one example of stupid:



This only seems to add a 'deep' level of grimdarkness that makes absolutely no sense.

 Vector Strike wrote:
The new deathwatch codex has just one example of stupid:



This only seems to add a 'deep' level of grimdarkness that makes absolutely no sense.

That reminds me of the Cyanide and Happiness cartoon where a guy walks onto the scene, there's a sign stating, "Do Not Read This Sign" in one part and two or three cops just standing around glaring at him sternly. The guy glances around a bit, finally looks up at the sign and IMMEDIATELY all the cops tackle him and start beating him up.

Also that's something I could actually see the Imperium doing and being totally serious about it.

Storyline of Draigo, GK killing SoB's, Blood Angels+Necron bro fist, Orks killing Titans single handedly, Angry chaos primarch stopping Titans foot single handedly, Necron's make a death star, Certain Eldar Reaper's killing a whole hive fleet of nids... There are some rrrreeeeaaaallllllyyyyy dumb moments in 40k.

Backflipping terminators. Anything that does something that goes against its fluff limitations and weaknesses.

Oh, and the fact that the ULTRAMARINES are the best at everything simply because they read a book once.
Is a BT duelist better at swordfighting than an ULTRAMARINE? No.
Is an Imperial Fist better at siege warfare than an ULTRAMARINE? No.
Does Pedro Kantor know more about killing Orks than an ULTRAMARINE? No.
If a Rhino from the Blood Angels gets painted blue and given a white toilet seat sigil, does it automatically become better at everything? Yes.

The Bloodtide blurb in the 5th Ed GK codex was the one for me, that small bit of fluff was so reprehensible and utterly unnecessary that even to this day it generates nothing but anger in me towards GW for that complete failure in understanding their own product. Sure, they fired Matt Ward over it, but they should have fired their line editor over it, because at least then they could have hired a competent steward of their IP instead of letting it come to this mess we have to day.

The only other fluff I found that was nearly as unredeemable as the Bloodtide was the entire book "Battle for the Abyss". That book was total garbage. I can completely understand why Ben Couter distances himself from that steaming pile of poo. It's obvious that a committee at Black Library took an unpublished Ben Couter 40k manuscript and butcher the feth out of it to create the worst 30k noval in print.

SJ

I've always thought that the speed and manoeuvrability of big stuff like Dreadknights, Wraithknights, Imperial Knights and those ridiculous Tau mechwarrior suits is just stupid (not to mention the plethora of huge tanks). And then there's the flawless balance of all the aforementioned bipedal monstrosities.

I also seem to recall a line about Magnus Calgar evaluating each individual projectile aimed at him, and deciding whether or not to dodge them. No. Just . . . no.

 Selym wrote:
Backflipping terminators. Anything that does something that goes against its fluff limitations and weaknesses.

Basically this.

 Pouncey wrote:


Yeah, but the total human population at the time measured only in the tens of millions, the vast majority of whom were not psykers.

But all them combined basically created a god. He's no human with lifespan of x human lives where x is number of shamans. He's more of god ljike entity now.