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On the daemon princes+ belakor luls build, you should pick up the FW index and bring a grip of Giant Chaos spawn too. They are less than half the cost of a DP, only T5, with a +4/++5, but they generate wounds and get stronger the higher they go. Very fun unit to use, and with the "daemon" keyword he +4WS isn't that bad with be-lakor around.

For summoning, I am hoping R&H characters can be used, as they have always been exceptionally cheap. For the big FW summons it isn't too bad if your 2 power character dies to get Scabriethrax up in the enemies face on turn 1.

tbonebakker wrote:
What are your thoughts on Skarbrand's aura? For units like seekers and blood crushers. Does his aura apply to the rider and the mount giving them each an extra attack? Or just the rider. An extra 40 attacks for a unit of 20 seekers seems to be a reasonable reason to bring Skarbrand. Any thoughts?

Stat adjustments are on character profile. The mount's weapon is completely detached from the profile. This makes strength bonus from herald of nurgle, nearly useless on plague drones, as most of their damage is on static strength weapons.

Did you give the GUO the +1 to wound wound power? That spell is disgusting with lucky rolls.

 DortmundOutpost wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
They are traitor guard and use a lot of guard units so they got lumped into that book.
Maelific Lords are included there.

Thank you very much!

So what would you suggest for the proxy of Malefic Lord.

Some guy here used Prodos Warzone Miniatures (they look really cool), another guy used AOS Magister or AOS Kairic Acolytes.
Any other ideas?

Crypt horror arms, Flagrant bodies, 3rd party skull heads. Any AoS sorcerer with a decently evil looking head swap should work as well. I usually use these dudes as a psyker coven, but when I need malefic lords, why not?

I was using electro priests as sergeants for my R&H. I chopped off the priest hands and put daemon hands on them instead. Now with sergeants not giving demagogues, or being anything special. I'll probably use them as Malefic lords as well.. if I ever want to be that guy and run more than 10. You can kind of see them in the back of the second picture

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Scabby gives a -1 to hit aura to Daemons of nurgle when you make it into Melee.

I had a recent game with this. I think my list was something like..

Scabbie
30 PB full upgrade
3 nurgle giant spawn
5 malefic lords
3x3 nurglings
3 earthshakers
4 quad launchers

Faced DA+knight.

30PB were -2 to hit in CC, they ran face first into 5 of those mace/shield and 5 powerfist/SB TDA with a chapter master and banner dude backing them up. Dude was only hitting on 6s thanks to the unwieldy rule with PB+scabbie. He rolled a lot of 6s, but PB wore them down, and scabbie cleaned them up. Malefic lords helped quite a lot against those storm shields though. Giant spawn are better than they were in 7th by a large margin, I'm surprised FW didn't give them a point increase. Had 1 die turn 2 to heavy shooting, the other 2 lasted the entire game, chewing up marine squads like it was no ones business. Quad mortars were wasted this game, as everything but the knight was either in CC or out of range. Earthshakers were hit or miss, but when they worked, they did real work.


Has anyone had a chance to try summoning scabbie? Against a gunline army, I feel like getting a malefic lord to summon him would be better than plopping him on the table.

 Ebolatheripe wrote:
Question for anyone that has Imperial Armor Index Forces of Chaos.

Are Plague Toads or Pox Riders any good? I want to give my Nurgle force some more variety in units, but I don't have the Imperial Armor book yet, and can't find any info on those two units at all in 8th edition.

I like them, but I suggest poxriders so you can get icon/instrument and -1 to be hit. They are pretty expensive though, but can put out a large amount of damage and are decently resilient.
I think its for 6 poxriders, you get -1 to be hit, like plaguebearers, a unit of 6 is equal to the days in the year point wise. So they add up. I got to use mine against tyranids with Corbax Utterblight, they did some serious work against warrior, hordes and even hive tyrant.

6 of them will throw out:

6, 7" bolt pistols
12 plagueswords (same as PB)
18 melee heavy bolters that do D3 dmg and on hit rolls of 6s, an additional automatic hit.
Don't forget 5 wounds each either, 30 wounds in a unit of 6. Tough cookies to budge. Also, they have FLY, just a little extra awesome.

I would think of them as an alternative to Plague drones. Slower, more wounds, and less, but harder hitting attacks. 3 drones are about 30pt less than 3 poxriders, but 3 drones is also 6 wounds less than 3 poxriders.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I am really curious to know how Nurgle daemon lists fare well in this heavy shooting environment. Can a nurgle daemon list player explain to me how you don't get shot off the board? Its not about getting off a turn 1 charge right?

Say you are facing a imperium list with heavy shooting, bubble wrapped with cheap conscripts or infantry. How does a nurgle daemon list approach such a gunline?

Tonight will be my second Nurgle list, and my first 100% nurgle list. Previous one had some R&H artillery, which was nice, but didn't change the game too much.

I'm trying epidemius, 30pb, 3x3 nurglings and a grip of nurgle daemon engines, as well as scabbie. It was suggested by another player who has had a blast with it. I considered bringing a herald to summon scabbie with, but I think I would rather have him draw fire away from the defiler, plague hulk, decimator and other scary stuff.

As soon as the point adjustment for Drones is out, I'll be running the 12 of them I have. I am a little bummed they dont get the -1 to hit when in large groups like PB and pox riders get. On the subject, pox riders have treated me well, but with the changes to drones, I'll have to revisit and see if the riders are even worth it.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
Aetaos got 2nd in the biggest GT - NOVA open. He is Top 3 superheavy in the game. You cannot argue against that. You cannot go 12-0(into 12-1 in filnals IIRC) and not be worth it

Out of curiosity, do you know what the other 2 awesome superheavies are? I'm guessing gulliman and magnus?

Some thoughts about what could change with a codex.

Will nurgle daemons the mortal wounds for standing there beasts that death guard can be?
Will the Warp Storm be a stratagem, like the boon table?
Will chaos daemons gain a unique keyword that isn't just DAEMON?
Do you think daemons will resume the role of "Cog in your plans" army that they have been in the past.

I think daemons have a long way to go for their codex. Whatever GW will do with slaanesh, in any event we need a good lot of new sculpts for a huge chunk of the codex. I worry we may be one of the last.

I'm hoping auras become useful for daemons. I could see a chapter tactics thing being that the auras get stronger, or do more, as long as there is not a daemon with a different gods name within X inches.

Daemons are such an odd book. They are a whole army made up of 4 little armies.

Even at 40pt they are a steal. If they perils they basically become daemon princes.

Daemons just need the codex to get more army wide rules and stratagems. They have always been a cog in the system with how they play and their rules in general. I think GW will release them last for balance reasons, because daemons are either going to be OP, or crap.

Losing army wide deep strike is a decent slap in the face, and makes a lot of units pretty bland. PB gained resiliency, but it doesn't matter if they can't get where they need to go!

I'm hoping that nurgle gets some of the mortal wound shenanigans that DG can throw around. No reason why the DG should be stinkier than Nurgle daemons.
Greater daemons really need love, all 4. I think that a lot of our codex hinges on if we get deep strike in any way back, or ability to summon easier. Heralds getting re-worked buffs, as +1s is pretty crap for nurgle and tzeentch.

I've been a nurgle daemon player for a long time, but I havent ran them outside of all daemon engine epidemius list since 8th dropped. DG are tons of fun, I hope daemons end up just as cool.

I think FWs increases on big boys is GW telling them to help keep them out of tournaments. The tournament scene was getting a little overridden by superheavies. Having a warhound at 2K is pretty harsh.
Giant chaos spawn needed it, like last edition they were hilariously cheap, especially with them getting legit daemon marks, that was a huge free buff.
I'm thinking they slacked on daemons because the codex is supposed to be soon. Index daemons, with no allies or FW support, just feel terrible right now to me.


Also, not sure why plague toads went up, sure the -1 to be hit is nice, but it's a huge investment. Wishful thinking is that the codex will have something that makes them worth the points.

Dew wrote:
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/11/new-daemons-codex-great-unclean-one-and.html?m=1

Possible new GUO and sounds like AoS Slimux will be joining 40k

Ok, time to unload my old GUOs! Slimux is an awesome sculpt, super happy we will have him. I wonder if the new sculpt is beasts of nurgle. Height of a PB and bulkier sounds plausible.

Azuza001 wrote:
Anyone have any experience with the plauge drones? The ones that look like giant flies. I got my hands on 3 NOS for 15$ and have not put them together yet, not sure what their roll is really in a deamon army. Are they just flying close combat monsters?

They were excellent in 7th when the leader could take an ap2 mastercrafted weapon and they auto glanced vehicles on 6s. Now? As others said, and like many other daemon units, they are in a weird spot that doesn't really work. I guess they are good at killing other daemons lol.

Power level matched play works for casual games where you still enjoy some sort of balance. The difference between PL imbalance, and casting miasma of pestilence or warp time +1 time per phase is massive. The type of people who enjoy power level games are not the type to exploit it, which is an alien train of thought to those who enjoy WAAC play. Beer and Pretzels 40k does actually exist.

No need to get all huffy because some people are find with power level.


With brimstones, I think it will be a good time to see how much GW still likes to play the "Everyone bought these models, time to make them unusable" card. I think their battlefield role should be similar to cultists, just camp on objectives, speedbump, and light harassment. However when points get that low, it becomes really tough to balance, especially when your model is basically a tumbleweed with an invulnerable save.

I really don't know what GW should do about them.

mmimzie wrote:

ballzonya wrote:
Question do those trees (forgot their name) get placed just like placing other units in your deployment? You don't need the snail to drop them do you?

Yes they are a unit in your army just like any other model. you can even deep strike them. Similarly when summoned they cost points.

By summoned do you mean from the snail character? They don't have the daemonic ritual rule, so they cannot be summoned.

What do you tournament players think about using the stratagem to deep strike the plague tree?

I can't find anything that says you cannot, but it seems like it shouldn't work. Fortifications can't move, and deep strike counts as moving right?

I know the conversation is a few pages back, but plague toads/poxriders already got a nerf in Chapter approved. They both went up 18pt a pop.

No, those powers are only for CSM.

Has anyone looked at Mamon and Corbax? Corbax seems like he is in a bad place. S6, no re-rolls to wound, and can get quite a few attacks. Seems like a good way to go after elite infantry, but I also think that a nurgle talons DP will do the job better. Corbax is more resilient, but I think I would rather have speed and sub 10W character. -1 to enemy psyker is nice, but eh...

Mamon looks a little more appealing now that we can deep strike..,.buuuuut he is 9PL, so it will cost 2. with 5" move I think that is the only way to take him, and he doesn't give re-rolls of 1 to anyone but himself and Necrosius. He has an OK flamer, and some pretty unique weapons. His stomp is kinda crazy, chance at 3+D3 dmg seems excellent for character killing. Fist is S9, but only -1 and 1dmg, with a 50% chance to deal additional D6 dmg.

Personally I feel they just don't bring as much synergy to the table as Codex units. They have nice models, are high toughness, but probably wont ever see a tournament table.

Oh yeah, and Uraka the Warfiend, the Khorne daemon prince. I ordered one planning on giving it wings for my axe DP, but this guy is pretty cool. While he doesn't give any synergy, he can become pretty awesome, and if you can just throw him at tactical marines, he will probably never die. Alike the two above, I don't think it's as good as a codex option, but this dude does look pretty fun. Potential to get to S10 is always cool!

 buddha wrote:
With the demon codex out it seem like the book really encourages combos and thus bombs. I thought it would be helpful to share a few and get other players ideas.

Cheap Horror bomb:
20 pinks
Change caster (with flickering flames)

218 points. Despite being cheap it only costs 2 CP to deepstrike them and it puts out 60 bolter shots. Uses are focused on chaff clearing.


Plague block:
30 plaguebearers: full command
Poxbringer
Scrivener

380 points. Can be deepstruck or just walked. These guys move fast (for nurgle) and hit like a brick.

I've tested both of these together and they are great. What are other people finding effective?

Sounds pretty awesome. Do you do 2 waves, or drop both the Tzeentch and Nurgle units at the same time?

Paikkio wrote:
I'm looking for an aggressive Nurgle list: must have epidemius DP drones gou obl nurglings and gnarlmaw.
I'm in doubt about how invest the test of the point.. mortarion or more body

I've had 2 games with the following. 1 against BA, and the other against infantry DG with poxwalker spam. So I havent had a chance to try against anything slightly mobile lol.

2 battalions
GUO (sword/flail)
Rotigus
Epidemius
Poxbringer
Scriviner
Talons winged DP with horn.
30PB with instrument/icon
5x3 nurglings
1 beast
9 drones with instrument/icon
Gnarlmaw

I start the drones in cover of the gnarlmaw, pointing them at whatever I want to get stuck in with, prince near them as well. Keep the 2 GUO and 30 PB in reserves. Poxbringer and scriviner will advance up to wherever you are trying to drop the PB, poxbringer can also stay close to drones. Both times I've snaked the PB unit into range of the 2 characters, which also helps with DS denial. Prince with horn can do wonders for PB support. Both games my PB havent dropped below 25 because the horn brings so many back. 4 psykers for lots of smite, I give the GUO nurgles rot due to his mobility. Rotigus generally does smite and the nurgle D3 mortal wounds, dealing 2+2d3 mortal wounds a turn, which is pretty nice. I've tried it with the banner for 2dmg on pb, and I don't think they need it. With a herald and scriviner nearby they do plenty. If you really want them to kill something, put the +1 to wound spell on them.

Both games my GUO were above 15 wounds at the end of it. The flail/sword puts out very awesome dmg, and rotigus is no slouch either. You end up with 3 big bullet magnets, enough nurglings to really corner your opponents deep strike, as well as get objectives quick and easy. One game I went first, Drones got a T1 charge, charged as much as they possibly could, PB landed and formed a nice little wall to box his army in. He deep struck a few things to try to get objectives, but nurglings forced them close to a GUO, who cleaned it all up. Second game I got second. Bunch of lascannons into my drones, bolters into nurglings, didn't take much dmg. Second turn I did the same thing and boxed him in. He got up to like 40 poxwalkers, but in one turn I took them down to 5. Drones and PB were doing serious work. Swing with the DP before the PB and you get extra models for more attacks!

Like I mentioned, I havent tried it against any really mobile armies, or faced any fliers yet, only marines on the ground so far. Though it has been very fun!


I've been thinking about Bloat drones, heralds and gnarlmaws. I feel like a list of all that could be really fun. Drop a few gnarlmaws around and you could have a speedy nurgle list, with everything advancing without penalty every turn. Heralds giving the bonus S, epidemius doing what he does, and the spitters dealing some pretty decent dmg.

I think the only use I will ever have for furies is cheap option to make a brigade.

Yeah, DR is a very useful trait, but also consider the possibility of getting the Locus. I hear the Tzeentch one is much better on the table than on paper. Though Furies will probably be shot to death by bolt guns, youll basically have flying poxwalkers with nurgle, right?

Something I hadn't thought of recently with the new book, is looking at the daemon lords again. I know that most everyone here will think they are absolutely terrible outside apoc for fun. With the new greater daemon rules though, are they even worthwhile then?

Look at scabbie, he has +2T, breath attack ++4 invul, +4w an aura and flat 5 dmg.

However I could bring 2 GUO for his price and still have points leftover. I love the model, but it's getting tricky to want to put him on the table when I have a points restriction. I mean, at 10k, sure, who cares, but at 3-6k... eeeh.

orkswubwub wrote:
Is there any way to run Rotigus well? I kind of like the model and he comes out point for point in a similar tankiness to mortarion - Nurgle seems to be able to do no wrong with psychic abilities (-1 tough, -1 hit, heal d3, nurgle rot, etc.) so the casts seem useful and somewhere just under half the time an extra mortal is popping out for psychic (maybe 1 per turn on two casts?). The flamer seems good (even better with nurgle locus) but range 7 is difficult to manage... At the end of the day I can't think of another way of running him besides deep strike - but he will inevitably fail the charge (or be stuck charging chaffe) and get blown of the table by dark reaper spam, commander spam, etc.

At just over 300 points it doesn't seem debilitating even if he gets blown off - should be a reasonable damage sink (18 wounds, 7T 5++ with a 5+++). - the 2 CP on deepstrike is rough for a CP hungry army - should he not deepstrike and sit in the back with miasma and get healed by a poxbringer? It just seems so tasty to run nurgle rot on him though....

Anyone have any luck maximizing use of the model? How did you do it?

Rotigus is a beast and a half. Well worth it over a standard GUO unless you are using the bell with multi wound model unit spam. I've been running a 2 GUO list with rotigus and a sword/flail GUO. After finally remembering everything rotigus has going for him, he is a steal. His staff is pretty terrifying in CC, then he has the D6 mouth attacks to chomp on medium infantry, and the D6 more nurgling attacks to add a little extra oomph. With his mortal wounds ability, have him smite/plague wind every turn to vomit mortal wounds at your opponents. His breath attack is scary enough to make even dreadnoughts think twice about assaulting him.

I highly, highly suggest deep striking him. If you run mono nurgle, you should always deep strike your GUO. 7" move will just have him shot off the table. DS an if you are super worried, the +1 invul strat. I've had them fired at by more than their fair share of lascannons and they have lived. Running 2 is costly, but no one has enough firepower to take 2 in one turn. I've been bringing 2 battalions and only have 3CP to play with, generally burning them all turn 1 or 2 on re-rolling charges from DS, or a stratagem if its needed. Fleshy abundance and the D3 heal strat combined will make a GUO frustratingly tough for an opponent.

From the little slaanesh I have seen, apparently chariots are pretty nice these days.

 lindsay40k wrote:
What do we reckon is the mass of Nurgle Daemons that make Epidemius worth it?

To me, epidemius is an all or nothing model. Don't bring him if you are doing mono god, because the chances of missing out on the tally are too great. Bringing along non chaos daemons units can make the tally really impressive. Oblits are great for the turn 1 tally, bloat drones having S-user weapons makes for a very nice buff.