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Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Mars Spearhead Detachment - 950

HQ - 250
1x Belisarius Cawl

Heavy Support - 700
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
4x Kastelan Robots - Heavy Phosphor Blasters, Twin Heavy Phosphor Blasters

Stygies VIII Battalion Detachment - 1048

HQ - 104
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer - Warlord: Necromechanic, Autocaduceus of Arkhan Land
1x Tech-Priest Enginseer

Troop - 120
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle
5x Skitarii Ranger - 5x Galvanic Rifle

Fast Attack - 544
2x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
2x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
4x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance

Heavy Support - 280
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser, Cognis Heavy Stubber, Broad-Spectrum Data Tether

Total: 1998 points
7 Command Points

Mars Spearhead

Belisarius Cawl: I chose not to make him my warlord because a 6" aura is plenty. Furthermore, it allows me to use him aggressively without painting a target on his back; he's already extremely valuable to my army.

Icarus Crawler: Best mobile anti-air unit in the game; not bad against MEQs and below either. Much more consistent than Neutron Crawlers against infantry, comparable against flying transports and gunships, and strictly superior against jetpacks, hover bikes, speeders, and battlesuits. Don't forget: Crawlers can move and shoot, so hide these out of LOS on turn one, and don't be afraid to form a second the gun line once your Kastelans are rooted. (In front against a CC army, behind against a shooting army.)

These two are placed in the Mars detachment because their -1 to hit against non-flying can really hurt without rerolls. Plus, they're your best choice after Kastelans finish Wrathing to finish off Celestine, Mortarion, or Magnus.

Kastelan Robots: My dedicated anti-horde and anti-character. No Datasmith because I expect to move these guys in range of multiple objectives then use Binharic Override to immediately shoot twice with the Wrath of Mars. Protect at all costs from charges! Layer Cawl, Crawlers, Skitarii, and Dragoons to create castle formations.

Stygies Battalion

Tech-Priest Enginseer: Cheap. Take them for the CP. I selected one as my Warlord to get the Necromechanic trait and also gave him an Autocaduceus; this allows him to heal 1 + rerollable D3 (2.33) wounds. You can use the Tech-Adepts stratagem to burst heal 6.67 wounds, which is useful in matchups where your Neutron Crawlers are taking focused fire.

Skitarii Ranger: Again, cheap. Take them 5x for the CP. Aside from this, they have no real purpose but to stand in front of your artillery as a last-ditch screen; -1 to hit helps them absorb random bolter and stubber fire, but don't expect them to last. Be sure to adjust where they stand based on your enemy. The minimum distance is 2.1" plus the enemy model's base size; for 25mm, this means 3.1". This is to prevent an enemy from killing your Skitarii then consolidating within 1" of your artillery and thus, tying them in CC without actually charging them.

Sydonian Dragoon: These guys were our best screening and skirmishing option pre-codex, but they got buffed SOOO much by the codex.

To recap:
1) Taser Lances are now AP-1, which helps a lot against transports.
2) Conqueror Doctrina Imperative essentially doubles one unit's attacks for 1 CP.
3) Stygies dogma gives them -2 to hit past 12". Orks can't even hit you, and plasma guns have a 50% chance to explode.
4) Stygies stratagem lets you infiltrate a unit for 1 CP. Dragoons are a natural choice.

I run two 2x units to maximize coverage early game. Paired Dragoons are ideal because you can deploy them "in line" stretched to maximum coherence (turned sideways to the enemy, 2" apart). Past two Dragoons, you will have issues properly piling in, as a Dragoon's base is longer than 3". (Remember that detail when you body block.)

The 4x unit is ALWAYS deployed last, either infiltrated on the opponent's flank or deployed in a "square" (two rows, each turned sideways to the enemy, 2" apart) on your own flank. Its role is to serve as a battering ram to instantly kill transports and artillery with 24 S8 AP-1 D2 attacks.

Neutron Crawler: One of the best mobile anti-tank units in the game. It's a nasty weapon that can potentially kill anything in one shot.

Tough call, but I decided to place these in the Stygies detachment. This is because the weapon is already inherently inconsistent, and a lot of what Neutron Crawlers do is trade with enemy artillery. But with -1 to hit and one dedicated Enginseer repairing it at all times, it's pretty much never going down. You can move it into the Mars detachment, of course. This improves their shooting as well as frees up the warlord trait and relic, but comes at the cost of 104 dead points.

This message was edited 27 times. Last update was at 2017/10/06 03:47:38


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Just a thought and it might not even be the best idea, but have you thought of maybe ditching one neutron lazer onager and a dragoon for another unit of 2x kastellans? I think they'd get out more damage/utility than 1 dragoon + 1 onager. Just a thought. Might not be enough points though, but worth thinking about perhaps.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/27 20:31:09


 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Mm... I would not for these reasons:
1) 143+68 = 211 < 220. I would need to cut 9 more points.
2) Crusader already complements Kastelans for 36" artillery
3) Running an odd number Crawlers limits their movement; you have to keep all three close together for the save bonus.
4) I only have one Datasmith, so I won't be able to change protocols or repair one of the units in a pinch.
5) It's harder to screen the entire front with only 3 Dragoons.

In fact, if it weren't for the fact that these Kastelans were so amazing against MEQ and below, I would cut them, since they are pretty much the only thing I have that cannot move and shoot without penalty.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




3 neutron lasers + kastellans is vehicle overkill. Kastellans with phosphor blasters are probably the singular best unit in admech (cawl only 2nd because his primary use is to buff the crap out of kastellans and onagers anyways).

I'm with Jackal for adding another kastellan pair, but you could also just add 1 more kastellan to the existing unit since you can split fire all 9 of the blasters in that unit as you choose.

Be careful using protector mode with a list like this. If they get into melee against protector mode kastellans those guys are disabled for 2 turns seeing as you can't fallback until protector mode wears off.
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






If I weren't running the Crusader, I would be running 2x2 Kastelan and a bunch of Vanguard to keep them out of CC.

However, I was thinking of keeping the Crusader and Kastelan close together for mutual support. They both have 36" range, but the Crusader has Titanic Feet to stomp anything that gets past the Dragoons, and the Kastelans mow down hordes.

That being said, your point on 3 Neutron being vehicle overkill is well taken. Would 2/2 Neutron/Icarus be better? I mean, Icarus are not as point efficient as Kastelans, but they are still pretty good against most of the targets Kastelans are good against, only with more range. Also, they make Eldar and pure flyer armies cry pitiful tears.

Yeah... Kastelans do not want to get into CC for sure. That's why the Dragoons are in the list to screen enemies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/28 07:24:15


 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Updated my list. I decided to go with 2/2 Neutron and Icarus, though having that third Kastelan is also an option.

No idea what to do with the spare 13 points. I guess I can give two of my Dragoons Phosphor Serpenta? xD

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/30 18:41:28


 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Someone suggested to me that I cut a TPD for 2 additional Dragoons. Not so sure about this, since the TPD aura and repair are nice to have when you split your artillery up. (Your Crawlers effectively have 2+ BS while at near-full Wounds.)

Any thoughts?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/05 18:28:49


 
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest






This list looks pretty cool

How's it faring in games so far?
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Depends on the matchup. It will mop the floor against any shooting army, doing especially well against Tau and Eldar because Icarus Crawlers outranges and outshoots practically everything that flies; Coldstars are scary though. Against assault armies and hordes, it can be tough, especially Daemons and Conscript spam. I might seriously consider dropping the Crusader if the trend continues for more Kastelans and some Arquebus Rangers.
   
Made in gb
Fully-charged Electropriest






Interesting.

Also excuse my ignorance here but is this list legal. Spearhead detachment states 0-2 fast attack units so are you running 2 units of 3 dragoons yeah?

Or have I read it all wrong. (Probably have haha)

Cheers


   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





WA

Ideasweasel wrote:Interesting.

Also excuse my ignorance here but is this list legal. Spearhead detachment states 0-2 fast attack units so are you running 2 units of 3 dragoons yeah?

Or have I read it all wrong. (Probably have haha)

Cheers




You are right. He needs to fix that.

Suzuteo wrote:Depends on the matchup. It will mop the floor against any shooting army, doing especially well against Tau and Eldar because Icarus Crawlers outranges and outshoots practically everything that flies; Coldstars are scary though. Against assault armies and hordes, it can be tough, especially Daemons and Conscript spam. I might seriously consider dropping the Crusader if the trend continues for more Kastelans and some Arquebus Rangers.


I was not impressed with Arquebus rangers thus far, but let me know how they do for you if you run them. Dakkastelans are solid gold. I figure they will get a gnarly nerf when the Codex hits.

   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Oops. When I dropped the TPD for 2 more Dragoons, it seems I messed up. I have been playing an illegal list for a bit. Haha. I fixed the problem, but I am not sure if 2x3 is flexible enough for deployment. (I usually expect to go second anyway.)

Yeah, the Arquebus Rangers can't seem to kill stuff like Commissars fast enough.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/04 17:21:40


 
   
Made in us
Fully-charged Electropriest






Haha.
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






It's the number of squadrons that matters. You need to deploy them in such a way to deny deep striking. You have to have as many turns of shooting as possible. Every turn you shoot, you open your point lead with your opponent. Point-for-point, NOTHING outshoots Kastelans or Crawlers.

Blandguard are just bodies. If you really want just bodies, Conscripts are better.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/05 04:00:52


 
   
Made in us
Fully-charged Electropriest






So out of curiosity of your putting down dragoons in a unit how far apart can they be spaced. Say I had 3 in a unit, how much of a distance could they occupy? (Newish to the game)
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Ideasweasel wrote:
So out of curiosity of your putting down dragoons in a unit how far apart can they be spaced. Say I had 3 in a unit, how much of a distance could they occupy? (Newish to the game)

This is the concept of unit coherency. To explain it, every unit must be within 2" of another unit horizontally and 6" vertically. You must be able to link every model in a unit together in a chain in this manner at the end of every movement phase. If you fall out of unit coherency, your models must re-establish it at the end of a movement phase to make a legal move. If you cannot re-establish it, you flat-out cannot move.

So if I have a unit of three Dragoons, they will look like a battleship formation of the 19th century. All of them face the enemy sideways and follow each other in a straight line 2 inches apart.

Remember that the key is to deploy them in such a manner that they deny your opponent the ability to Deep Strike. Since you are new, I will explain this further: imagine a 9 inch bubble around each Dragoon, following the shape of the base. Enemy units cannot deploy into this area from reserves. So placing your Dragoons and Knight 16-18 inches apart from one another as well as your vulnerable Kastelans/Crawlers will force them to either deploy early 24-27 inches away from your Kastelans/Crawlers or to hold them in reserve. If the former, they will have to take at least one turn to get into range of your Kastelans, another for the Crawler, during which time you can position them to cover objectives or shoot their army. If the latter, you are shooting their army while a good chunk of his forces are sitting in space with their hands in their pants.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alright. I went back to my original build with 4 Dragoons. It's really hard to keep my entire deployment zone covered with only two squadrons of Dragoons that are forced to remain 2 inches apart, especially Front-line Assault.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/06 08:17:33


 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Going to try a new build with a fifth Crawler. Might be a disaster though...
   
Made in gr
Stalwart Tribune





Greece

We uave been talking for some time now and i jut wanted to contribute some more experience might help.

1) if you taking only dakkastelans a unit of 3 is viable for one datamith. 2*2 for dakka-melee ones.

2) i find 2*2 dragoons part of my fast unit count . Efficient enough and inside me spewrhead .

3) 5 onagers are must.

4) i always try now to consider ll units tax. Let me explain. If i take a unit i prefer to benefit as much as possible. So your patrol detachment with 3 troops can be a +3 cp with a simple commnder form30 points or even greyfax. Why have so many units in patrol.

5) you seem to be focusing entirely in screen units once more. Ok dragoons are the best. The issu though e try to adress is not hpw to screen for tow rounds. Then what?. You will fall back where with Cawl onagers robots dragoons all gathered up. Our army got superb counter cheap cc units for a reason. Vs a good heavy cc alpha strike bla bla enemy the point is to use canticles for 1-2 rounds and kill some soften enemies. Cant have a 2+ 3+ invu char roaming in you lines for 2-3 rounds . Game can go 5-6 rounds Cawl has 2d6 att. Knight no sword again anti horde. Dragoons as well. So either tar pit imperium or mortal wound -fist option. As always only tryng to help
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Updated for the codex. Almost 3 months running now.
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





WA

I worry about that Warlord Enginseer being an easy VP if they manage to get to him or shoot him with snipers or some such. Having a different trait is nice, because Cawl locks you into the aura buff, but he is much harder to take out.

Loving the bulldozer unit of Dragoons, btw. Pop Conqueror Doctrina Imperative and watch people weep as you go from 3 attacks to 7-9ish with ease! I really want to try that... but I hate HATE painting Dragoons and don't want to make more. I have a few NIB too, just can't bring myself to paint any more right now!

   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Ugh yes. I have to make 2 Dragoons, 2 Enginseers, and 15 Rangers.

If they want to snipe my -1 to hit Enginseer, they can go for it.
   
Made in gr
Stalwart Tribune





Greece

I like your lists you know it but you sacrifice so much.

4 onagers too many especially with the new stubber 145 point neutron and 2*3 gaks stubbers more than enough for hordes. Not to mention if you have neutron with cawl 4+ reroll is robot bs. Will take air better. If you worry for skirmish lower units with air then 3 reroll will still kill them. Icarus wont kill an knight
Robots with mortals might neutron might . Neutron can shoot hordes with stubber neutro n on heavy teams sergents leaders. Thats why we getting 2* stubber. Its a cost decision. Same goes for dragoons

Cant have such detachments you loosing cp s and warlord.and actually you can dombetter andmbuff what you got with simple steps.

Onagerx with neutron on Mars will provide vs any target. With out having to sacrifice so much. One neutronager in stygia can survive well enough on its own. Tpd as your warlord will also provide rerolls of 1 both in onager and anything else. Loose an onager and buff the ones you got. 3 neutron are enough. Amd 2 in mars one with tpd not only you ll save your warlord but you ll buff your lines. Create another stygia outrider detachment. You ll gain one cp. Drop 2*2 dragoons and put an lascannon balistarii to hold your back field and tpd will also provide rerolls next to onager and balistari while you retain outer defnce in your flanks gun line. Your skitarii will even become more of a threat they got 30" shooting 3+ bs and with reroll ones from tpd can be horde killers they vot the best troop rifle. Use it. And this will be default. No need to spend nothing to and no cp. The extra engiseer in stygia equip with omnicient mask drop him with your dragoons. Since you invested 4 they will surelly gain from reroll all miss. Again gain extra power for 52 points you need for later rounds since you got no reall cp s either for robots or buffing dragoons or rerolls or explode dragoons. You wont always need more hits but the ones you got to get to the target.

So again we have debated enough i know what you planning to do here but there are options that will help for 5 rounds not 1-2. And youmwont change your play style. So

New stygia outriders +1 cp
Engiseer omn mask

Balistarii lasc
2* dragoon
4* dragoonz

Switch engiseer to tpd warlord for reroll ones on stygia units. Balistarii 1* onager rangers.

Remove one onager for either a robot an exta balistarii points missing snipers.

As always your lists are with a clear plan and its good. We are almost the same in lists i use 2 battalions and a spearhead though i prefer more troops atm. I still cant decide the tax is big so i stll trying to count exactly the number of cps i want in fights.

1-2 inflitrations if not more. 1 reroll 2*2 wrath of mars 1-2 for dragoons almost 9 for max two rounds? Might get serious issues vs clear focus armies like 4 knights spamms etc. And with the new lists i see more issues with heavy tank armors thatn hordes. So yes try balistarii and min 3 neutronagers. And might be close for armies with lots tankish 7-8+ toughness

Tip : datasmith is an issue we must seriously consided after playing some games. I believe he need to be there else we risk robots being dead w8. From bikers long range guns etc. Its a matter to be seen with more experince. I m already trying to have one in my lists but i still want to see himalso as hq option from a faq. Wont happen but i wish

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/22 11:20:05


 
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






Thanks for the feedback.

From my calculations, adding a Battalion or Outrider is not worth it, especially if you don't split up enough vehicles for repairs. And Dominus is not worth it if I am just rerolling 1s for two Crawlers. Remember that when you don't have enough vehicles for an Enginseer to repair, that Enginseer becomes a tax.

You bring up good points about the Stubbers and a lone Ballistarii though; if I do make changes, it will be to cut an Icarus, convert the other to Neutron, move all Crawlers to Mars, and add a Lascannon Ballistarii.

I agree with you that the new paradigm of rooting the Kastelans with Binharic Override is risky. It's basically making them into a fortification. It makes me worry that I might run into another shooting army that has more >36" guns than I do. I am counting on my Dragoons and Crawlers as insurance against that.

Not a fan of Omniscient Mask. Not only is it tricky to get the HQ in range, Dragoons don't get shooting rerolls, and you are only rerolling 1s because the Dragoons usually get +2 to hit.

Anyhow, I admit that my list is a compromise, but I am confident that it is the compromise that uses points most fully, at least on paper, anyway. The principles are that this army should spend the least points possible for 7 CPs, that every point be fully utilized, and all other points go into either making wounds or repairing them. I probably will change it down the road with some playtesting and the FAQ.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/22 22:01:11


 
   
Made in pl
Snivelling Workbot





Hmm,
but thats only 3 troops. How does securing objectives go with this list?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-search.jsp?u=52285
Greetings Jendi
Painted: 5500 Dark Elves 
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





WA

Jendi wrote:
Hmm,
but thats only 3 troops. How does securing objectives go with this list?


It kills all the enemy ObSec units.

   
Made in gr
Stalwart Tribune





Greece

Still believe you ll get better results with

Balstarii
Balistarii
1*5 dragoons.
And extra points upgrade dominus.
And since you gonna take data tether all over with so many dragoons and onagers you can make your rangers units of 6-8 with 2* arc each more effective screeners obj etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/26 15:35:51


 
   
Made in us
Snivelling Workbot





Minor question: why wouldn't you put the Autocaduceus on the Warlord? Particularly with the stratagem allowing you to repair twice, that would be 2 + 2D3 wounds (with re-rolls) restored. I understand spreading the repairing abilities around for durability, but I find that more often my opponents try to target fire one vehicle instead of spreading damage around. There have been a few situations I've had a crawler on 1-3 wounds and the prospect of recovering 8 at once would be spectacular.
   
Made in us
Quick-fingered Warlord Moderatus






An update:
I am making my two Ironstriders. The leg cables make my blood boil. I already got rid of the roll cage (I like cutting up the Ballistarii gun shield and strapping it in front instead), but those cables are a nightmare that can't be avoided. Why the front cable has the middle bit detached makes no sense to me. Also, I screwed up and glued the leg plates on. I forgot I'm supposed to paint those separately. Ugh, going to be a mess painting that portion...

Sorry, had to vent, but the Tactica is locked. xD

 Regis Terzieff-Godefroy wrote:
Minor question: why wouldn't you put the Autocaduceus on the Warlord? Particularly with the stratagem allowing you to repair twice, that would be 2 + 2D3 wounds (with re-rolls) restored. I understand spreading the repairing abilities around for durability, but I find that more often my opponents try to target fire one vehicle instead of spreading damage around. There have been a few situations I've had a crawler on 1-3 wounds and the prospect of recovering 8 at once would be spectacular.

Hm. That's a good point. You can burst heal an expected value of 6.67 wounds with that combination.
   
Made in us
Moustache-twirling Princeps





WA

Yuuuup. That is why I complain so much about the Dragoons. Such an annoying kit to build and paint.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Hey, I've read a lot of your posts over the months about AdMech and it has been really helpful. Do you have any pictures of your own army Suzuteo?
   
 
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