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Adeptus Mechanicus Forgeworld tactics where less powerfull than marines ones because they affected everything (Ignoring the -1 to hit in 12", that souldn't exist as a Forgeworld Tactic if its affect everything in the army, maybe now isn't a problem but in the future with vehicles...)

This Catachan one is sure more powerfull than some Chaos and Loyalist space marines chapter tactics, so maybe we have a problem here...

Personally I'm a little hupset about the fact that Tempestus Scions have become a totally separated thing when in the past Stormtroopers where just Elite units of their regiments... I miss my Karskins

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Personally I'm a little hupset about the fact that Tempestus Scions have become a totally separated thing when in the past Stormtroopers where just Elite units of their regiments... I miss my Karskins

Havent they been a totally separate entity for some time now?

Yes, but I was hoping they reversed it here.

Pseudomonas wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Personally I'm a little hupset about the fact that Tempestus Scions have become a totally separated thing when in the past Stormtroopers where just Elite units of their regiments... I miss my Karskins

Stormtroopers have always been separate, its just that some regiments happen to employ elite heavy infantry with hellguns and carapace armour.

They are as separated (In the fluff) as Dark Eldar Kabals, Wych cults and Hoemunculos Coves. And those are now too separated and totally incompatible from a buff and mixing rules perspective. Personally I don't think thats a good thing.

Well, at those low points everything that offers you a good enough chaff is good. A 25mm base unit with literally no offensive capabilities and no armour but with 1 wound for 1 point would be probably one of the most useful and best units in the game.

Tempestus Scions with plasma spam are really OP, yes.

But Veterans are fine to use. They suck

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
When have I said anything about the rules for the Stormraven?

All I said was I find 8th to be quite lazy, with Auras'o'Plenty and every man and his squig being able to cause mortal wounds through some rule or stratagem.

To be honest I find the number of Mortal Wounds in 8th much less numerous than in AoS. And thats something because 8th has more models with invulnerables and 2+ saves. Personally I like it this way.

Yeah, its not like Leman Russes where OP. For now it appears they are gonna nerf the broken stuff and buff and fix (Or try to fix) the weak stuff in the Imperial Guard army. So, basically, what one should expect from balance changes.

 ph34r wrote:
Fingers crossed that scions don't get the nerf hammer, else all my "scions" will magically become "elysians"

I run 30 Scions with my Inquisitorial list and they need the nerfhammer. At least, the spammy plasma ones.

So will be 8th the dead of the people that shame you and call you TFG if you use White Scars rules with your Ultramarines?
I hope so. Is obvious that with all armies having this kind of bonuses, nobody is gonna keep a trait for their army that they don't like just because they picked that army before when there were no rules for it.

Damm Catachans! They have so much personality. Now they only need a decent plastic infantry kit!

Hm. Then probably is just a difference in personal experience. I have meet many people that put very fast the label of TFG if you use different rules than the ones that GW has arbitrarily put to your paint scheme.

Oh yeah I'm totally cool with that, but I have encounter people that has strong opinions agains't it, thats why I wrote the previous comment that have been quoted.

Wow, I love the Valhallan rules, they are so fluffy and... fun to use.

The problems with Conscripts isn't the conscripts alone. The problems are the parking lot+Guilliman they have behind, and the Plasma-Scions they have in front.
A bunch of good cannon fodder (Something IG should have) with a properly balanced army behind them, isn't that bad.

And, something to think about the Conscripts nerfs. We hare accustomed to the GW swinging balance-bat. When the only balancing change you do is one every 4-5 years, you go big or go home. Thats why many times, very good units become unplayable because they over-nerfed them.

With this new FAQ's, living document, etc... mentality, I'm glad to see that GW is trying a more humble approach. They want to balance Conscripts, not make them totally useless. So even if those changes don't are enough to make them balanced and they are still more powerfull than they should, I think GW will eventually with Chapter Approved, FAQ's, etc... balance them with small nerfs-buffs.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/09/29/regimental-focus-armageddon-sep29gw-homepage-post-2/

Ogryn Bodyguard! A generic HQ (Or elite?) Ogryn hero! This inconsistence is a little baffling even if I prefer it to a strict no model-no rules policy. So you have Ogryn Bodyguard and Dreadknight Grandmaster but your possessed can't have DR or your BLightlords can't take Powerfists

Yeah, I suppose one can look at it that way.

I doubt that the Warhammer Community guys are the same as the ones that writte the rules.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Yeah, I suppose one can look at it that way.

It's not looking at it any way. They explicitly say that in the article.

Looking at all this discussion I dont knonw anylonger if what they said is right or not.

Hmmm, this Codex appears to be pretty damm good, and I'm not talking about stuff that probably is still more strong than it should, but it appears that.... a surprisingly percentage of the Imperial Guard roster is actually competitive and usable. Yeah, probably Tempestus Scions+Conscripts is still the way to go to the most hard edge competitive tournament players.... but many of the other things seem much nicer now. This seems to be one of the codexs with best internal balance GW has released. (This probably will bite me back after the min/maxers put their hands in the codex )

And to be honest with troops having back Obj Secure (I know this is old news), I'm loving the importance of troops in this edition (My favourite unit in the game!)

I think they need to put significantly stronger nerfs into Conscripts (And probably in Infantry squads, and more buffs on veterans), but I think the rest of the codex is balanced-strong. I'll love for the idea that other posted said about making the Grav-Chutes in Tempestus Scions optional like the Primaris Reivers. I have 20 tempestus Scions that I run in two Tauroxes Primes with my Inquisition army, and it always feel like I'm doing just a stupid thing instead of just deep striking them whenever I want.

I love how the Codex allows for very variety of play stiles. Whant a movile mechaniced force? Tallarns for you.
Close and dirty with flamers, sentinels, hellhounds, and even meele fight? Catachans for you.
Do you want a defensive gunline? Cadians or Mordains, one more focused in standing still and the other in using your orders in the best way.

And I can totally understand why some people feels they have received the short end of the stick, this codex is great, the GK and AM not so much. And I'm waiting here for the Tau one... please GW , give me something more than Commander+Drones spam

 Stus67 wrote:

Bullgryn Slabshields are now "add +2 to your saves"

In what way this is different than before? I know before it whas "Your armour save is 2+"(The slabshield is the 2+ armour save no?)

Don't celestine gives a 6++ buble, not a 6+ buble? Why it interacts with this shield?

Oh, wow. Ok, thats a pretty strong buff. It makes the 4++ invulnerable shield a little weak in comparison, no? My inquisitorial army with Celestine and my squad of Bullgryns is gonna love this

SilverAlien wrote:
I already got my codices, CSM, admech, and DG. You know, the balanced ones that managed to mostly avoid codex creep.

I'd rather not imagine codex creep getting worse. I'd rather we actually had a balanced edition. I actually had hope they might manage it as well, which in retrospect was silly. This is wardian levels of cheese across most of the army, which honestly is something even tau/eldar didn't quite manage, you still had to cherry pick units there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lone Cat wrote:
Wow! Napoleonic regiments is LIVE!

Will Rough Riders get carapace armor upgrade and swap their lances with lasguns like in 3rd Edition?

Rough riders aren't even in the codex and don't benefit from any of the regiment doctrines from what I can tell.

If they have the Regiment keyword they'll benefid from the regiment doctrines. (But I don't know if they have it)

No problem guys, they'll make Conscripts 4 points and Infantry Guardsmen 5 points with Chapter Approved.

Now with Veterans to be honest I don't know what can be done with them to make them worthwile. I'll love if they add the option to have Scions without deepstrike for 2 ppm less.

I agree with you Gainsay in the part about the perception of the units,but for me Veterans and Leman Russes where pretty disappointing. Many times I have seen that in the internet theres only three states for a unit: OP (This is for a unit that is really, really OP. Like, God-Tier) Usable (This is a euphemism for OP) and Crap (This is for the rest of the units, both for units that are balanced and units that are actually pretty bad).

And personally I find redundant to call tournament players WAAC. Yeah, thats why you go to a competitive tournament, to win. Theres nothing bad about that. Even chasing the meta with the most OP flavour of the month doesn't has nothing bad about it, as long as is used in a competitive tournament.

I think the problem with Veterans are Tempestus Scions. Is like having Tactical Marines, Better Tactical Marines, and then Sternguard. They basically occupy the same role.

SilverAlien wrote:

 Galas wrote:
No problem guys, they'll make Conscripts 4 points and Infantry Guardsmen 5 points with Chapter Approved.

Weird question, why do people assume this?

These codices clearly have been responding to input for the wider community, they have been responding to balance issues... up till now. They even "responded" to issues with conscripts by fundamentally misunderstanding the problem with them. If they haven't realized what the issue is by now, why would they in the future? It's like they listened to one of those WAAC guard players on dakka who kept trying to deflect from the issue with their durability by bringing up how order efficiency was "the real issue". Which frankly means they just aren't up to the job, if someone fed them that line and they bought it.

People were talking about how they'd be fixed in the codex when people were wanting a FAQ nerfing them. Now people are talking about chapter approved because the codex fell through. At a certain point we just have to accept GW's design team is to stupid to properly do basic unit point efficiency comparisons, and thus we probably aren't getting a lot of issues fixed.

Why I assume and expect for them to improve? Because thats at least for me the option that I prefer.
The other options are:
-Stop playing W40K alltogether and go to play other games. (I already play other non-GW games, and I like W40K still.)
-Start saying how W40K is unbalanced gak and totally unfixable in the internet with the objetive of ... of what? Free my frustration? I dont take all of this that seriously.
-Give GW feedback in social media. (I already do this)
-Use the flavour o the month OP hotness. Personally I don't chase the meta, for me is a job of futility.

We can say all day that GW rule writers are bad, and to be honest, personally even if I believe that they have some cool and fun ideas they are mediocre at best when they need to implement them. But what after that? What do you expect is gonna happen, SilverAlien, after 5 months of repeating 5-10 times a day that Conscripts are OP on the internet? Give GW constructive feedback, and wait for the better. Or don't, and play other games, but theres a point where just assuming that GW games are gonna be always unfixable isn't good enough for a sane person. Is a toxic relationship with something that should be a hobby.