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I can only assume these codexes are balanced/tested in isolation from one another. There's no way the 15 point difference between a neutronager and leman russ battle tank justifies the differences.

Is FoC specifically a forgeworld 30k to 40k book? I mean there's loads of 30k stuff they could port, but Tau werent even around in the heresy days so everything they get would be totally new. I know there's a whole bunch of 30k models without 40k rules that makes it a much cheaper and efficient means of adding new models to our army. The thing is, the 30k stuff is ALL essentially cult mech, it's virtually all automatons which are largely frowned upon 'these days'.

I'd expect us to get a thallax-like option, just because our 'tank' options are currently the most limited of our offering. Hell i'd accept a weapon upgrade kit for Kastelans. It would be nice for us to have our own properly heavy weapon option, dunecrawlers have a single proper heavy weapon and an icarus array. They're essentially medium tanks. A much bigger heavier dunecrawler would be awesome, like a six-legged heavy walker akin to those in ghost in the shell or something but with lots of weapon options. because really the eradication beamer needs to be 2d6 shots at range to make it worth taking and the twin heavy phosphor option is a waste of space on dunecrawlers. It'sd be nice to get some heavy volkite guns or darkfire etc, the 30k gun technologies brought up to date.

I dont really want more screening options specifically. Thats a want borne from the current meta and not necessarily what I feel the army is all about. I'd prefer to have more options to remove or tie up threats before they get to us. I dont want my army to become a copy of another with a different skin. Again 30k has potential options for this. Be nice if we got vorax with a bunch of spammy weak attacks, like a squad of 20 with 3-4 attacks and some charging shenanegans. Much rather have the option to take the fight to my opponents spam than wait for it to come and try and fight spam with spam (that we dont have)

So I came up with a pseudo-viable pure admech brigade (read: lol) something along the lines of:

HQ
Stock TPD
2 * enginseer

Troops
2 * sniper ranger squads
1 * arc ranger squad
3 * arc vanguard squads

Fast attack
2*3 dragoons
1 * 2 las balistarii

Elite
3 * datasmiths (one for each robot )

Heavy
2 * neatronager
1* 3 robots

I mean it's obviously unlikely to be winning any ultra competitive tournaments any time soon, but it's at least usable against most normal armies. There's a lot of tax in there i admit but it's brainstorming gak like this that brings out those tid bits of usefulness for a more serious list.

gendoikari87 wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
For the record, AdMech is not a bad army. In fact, most armies are much better off today than in 7E (aside from Eldar). The problem is that there are a lot of broken things in Guard; Scions seem okay now, but Conscripts, Elysians, and their artillery are still nightmares.

if they'd take the whole does not need line of site out the artillery wouldn't be as broken. but it would also really be uncouth and unfluffy Maybe "does not need line of sight but if you fire at a unit this model cannot see subtract 1 from the hit roll" would have been a good compromise.

Artillery normally requires a spotter. I'd accept firing without LOS if another unit or model had to give up it's shooting to spot for the artillery.

Ya know if we hadn't lost the power first weapon for Onagers, they'd be just as good in combat as a Fistellan >.<

Had a casual first run out with the admech codex against a friends AM army, low points around 1000 each, I had:

Stygies batallion
2 * TPD with eradication rays and serpenta
1 * 5 sniper vanguard
1 * 5 plasma vanguard
1 * 5 arc vanguard

2 * dakastellans
2 * Neutronagers

he had:

2 * 3 lascannon heavy weapons teams
1 * 10 elysian multi melta
1 * 10 elysian plasma
3 * 10 infantry
1 * officer (1 order)
1 * officer (2 orders)
1 * commander
1 * pask
1 * vendetta with all lascannons and heavy bolters

I paid 1cp to infiltrate my plasma vanguard into cover down one flank where i'd deployed my robots and 1 onager with tpd. They took out one of the heavy weapons teams then died in his first turn. but in discussions afterwards he noted that if that squad didnt have plasma he would have ignored it. So even though it's not doing a huge amount of damage the threat is enough for people to have to deal with them. Same story with snipers, i did a couple of wounds in my first round but he then targeted them because guard needs those officers.

Essentially the result being he threw the towel in on his 3rd shooting round as i had objectives and all he had left were a pask that could only hit on 6s a smattering of infantry and all his officers. I used the robots mainly to take out the elysians that dropped in under the 12" range as well as the stubbers on my onagers. My first round I took 9 wounds off pask with a single volley from one neutronager, which rendered him useless for the rest of the game. The other neutronager picked away the vendetta, i doctrina'd it to 2+ on the first turn and dropped it to a 11 wounds and finished it off by the third with support from double shot robots. By the 3rd round he'd not managed a single wound off any of my robots or onagers or either of the TPD. which is all i had left by that point. The troops had done their job and died instead of my tanks and robots. But he would have ignored them if they didn't have special weapons.

The -1 to hit against a guard army is just so powerful, hitting on 5s for just about everything meant the heavy weapons teams did nothing, same for the vendetta and pask's 2+ bs did him no good after being dropped to lowest wound bracket.

I used the deep strike interupt to shoot an elysian squad when it landed with my plasma vanguard, only managed to drop 3 of them, wouldnt say it's mega useful because our infantry doesn't hit that hard but bit by bit weathering away at the squads they all eventually evaporated.

I honestly thought he was gonna have too many bodies for me to get through but the two robots did most of the heavy lifting there along with the heavy stubbers and a few radium carbines.

Going forward I think i'd add another 2 robots and add a bunch of dragoons as yet again i could only take the objectives i'd strategically placed in my own deployment.

I have 5 ironstrider boxes i'm building atm. At least 3 of them will be dragoons. but I may build the last two as balistarii for 2+ flyer lascannon/autocannon bombard. Eventually i'd like 2 *3 dragoons and 1 *3 balistarii but thats a lot of points. 3 neutronagers would be nice too. balancing the points is the challenge.

If you're only taking an icarus on the off chance of there being flyers, would it not be more prudent to take another neutronager and just doctrina boost a unit to hit a flyer?

 ph34r wrote:
Danny I believe the backup is are standard issue and Skitarii all have them? Not sure what bit the data tether is supposed to be.

Yeah every ranger/vanguard has some form backpack. There is a seperate one for the enhanced data tether, it comes with a different arm holding a little monitor-type device.

Wulfey wrote:
Okay, I finally got my models based coated and washed. The bases are not quite ready yet but they are close. If they do well in tomorrow's tournament then they will get their faces done. The images are large so I am just going to post a link and 1 image. This is my full competitive forge world / on the edge of getting FAQd list.

Cawl / Enginseer / 6 dakkabots / 3x skitarii foot / 2x onager / 1x2 dragoons

3x elysian commander
3x elysian plasma command team
1x elysian plasma weapon team
4x elysian snipers
1x elysian mortars

https://imgur.com/gallery/INXOQ

Spoiler:

Nice! Quick question: how did you go about magnetising your ironstriders? I have a bunch I’m building at the moment and I’ve all but given up on doing it in a ‘nice’ way. I guess at least magnetising the lance arm is easy enough but the arms in general are really badly designed imo.

Wulfey wrote:

Octovol wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Okay, I finally got my models based coated and washed. The bases are not quite ready yet but they are close. If they do well in tomorrow's tournament then they will get their faces done. The images are large so I am just going to post a link and 1 image. This is my full competitive forge world / on the edge of getting FAQd list.

Cawl / Enginseer / 6 dakkabots / 3x skitarii foot / 2x onager / 1x2 dragoons

3x elysian commander
3x elysian plasma command team
1x elysian plasma weapon team
4x elysian snipers
1x elysian mortars

https://imgur.com/gallery/INXOQ

Spoiler:

Nice! Quick question: how did you go about magnetising your ironstriders? I have a bunch I’m building at the moment and I’ve all but given up on doing it in a ‘nice’ way. I guess at least magnetising the lance arm is easy enough but the arms in general are really badly designed imo.

There isn't really an easy way to do the arms. It requires good drill control and experience knowing when you are about to blast through the shoulder plate. Make sure you have at least the following gear:

Little Drill: http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-6V-DC-Mini-Electric-Cordless-Battery-Drill-Variable-Speed-Grinding-Rotary-Tool-/401409130455?hash=item5d75d93fd7:g:e8EAAOSwfrxZw7aK
3mm Magnets: http://www.ebay.com/itm/300-pc-3mm-x-1-5mm-Disc-Rare-Earth-Neodymium-Magnets-Magnet-1-8-inch-x-1-16-inch-/181880923076?hash=item2a58f2a3c4:g:FVkAAOSwEetWA003
Greenstuff: http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Army-Painter-Miniature-Model-Tools-Green-Stuff-Kneadatite-/201887322599?hash=item2f016c11e7:g:bO4AAOSwc49Y697O
1/8inch bit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Irwin-Tools-4935636-Black-Oxide-Hex-Shank-Drill-Bit-1-8-Inch-New-/371948091309?epid=1400682776&hash=item5699d577ad:gKYAAOSw9~5ZVXMW
And super glue.

Drill just enough so that the 3mm x 1.5mm magnet fits into the weapon shoulder. It will fit just right if you drill exactly 1.5 mm in. once you get 1.3mm in, reverse the direction of the drill and turn it to high speed and use it on backwards and slowly grind out that last .2mm. Then wiggle the drill around in the hole while reversed to widen out the hole to match 3mm. Then put in the smallest nibblet of green stuff and a good amount of super glue. Then check the polarity of the magnet with the model. Then push in the magnet after you have confirmed polarity. If you do it right, the magnet won't be sticking out of the model. One of my dragoons is actually pretty wrecked since it was one of my earlier magnetizations. My elysian command squads have secutarii peltast guns that are all magnetized. Those were hard.

I appreciate the effort you’ve put in to this reply, i perhaps should have been more specific lol. As someone that initially started out magnetising all the arms on my vanguard so I can switch them between rangers and vanguard I’m well accustomed to using magnets in the shoulders lol. Incidentally I use 2x1mm magnets.

What I really struggle with on these ironstriders is where the arms attach to the rest of the model. The weird handlebar arrangement they have going on and also the less than optimal surface for magnetising the balistarii guns.

- - -

I’m considering balistarii mainly because they’re reliable heavy weapons fire that doesn’t use a heavy support slot and you can also advance them and still fire at normal BS in a pinch with strategms; Or at 5+ without if you feel like reducing yourself to guardsmen/ork/tau lvl of shooting lol. Point per firepower onagers and robots are easily our best bet, but now onagers aren’t in a squad of 3 the slots soon disappear without adding more hq tax. Add a few balistarii and you have more heavy firepower for a single fast attack slot.

I also plan to use balistarii as my no-penalty anti-air. most non-eldar/non-tau only have a couple of hard to hit models, if those are also stygies/raven Guard/alpha legion/future -1 to hit traits I have the option of spending 1cp to potentially take them out rather than swapping a Neutronager for an otherwise sub-optimal icarus. That’s my experience anyway, makes for a much more exciting battle when you get your 3 neutron shots and wound with all 3, minimum 9 damage from a single model and rolling 6 * 3+ isn’t exactly unheard of.

Even if you took an entire army of Neutronager each still has the option of 6 * stubbed shots to weather the chaff units trying to lock you down. Hell I used an onager as a screening unit for my robots in my last battle, works just as well as 2 dragoons lol.

- - -

On the graia dogma: I read it slightly differently, in that it’s essentially reanimation protocols on single wound models, multi-dmg weapons dmg is wasted once the model was slain. The rule reads:

Roll a D6 each time a model with this dogma is slain or flees, on a 6 that sew to yield; either the wind that slew it is ignored or the model does not flee.

The model has to be already dead for this to kick in, it’s not wound based. so we do have a bit of a conundrum in that if the damage being dealt was multiple mortal wounds at what point do we make the rolls for refusal to yield? If all the models in a unit have been slain then surplus mortal wounds would be wasted; dmg is applied to a unit simultaneously, not in a sequence. So 6 mortal wounds against a 5 man squad would slay all 5 models at the same time, the 6th mortal wound is wasted. Then we roll for refusal to yield. After all the damage has been dealt. It’s slightly ambiguous I guessing depends, it would definitely be a per weapon roll as each weapon applies it’s damage in its own bubble. I read it as:

1, If someone fires a shot that does 6 damage on a dragoon with only 2 wounds left, you fail 2 rolls the model is slain and all remaining dmg is wasted. roll one d6 and on a roll of 6 it survives.
2, If someone smites a group of 5 vanguard for 6 damage, all 5 are slain. You roll 5 d6, 1 for each model.
3, If someone smites a group of 5 infiltrators for 6 damage, assuming they started this attack with 2 wounds each, 3 are slain. you would roll 3d6, 1 for each 2-wound model slain.

Playing devils advocate, you wouldn’t have to make 3 saves for a unit with 2 models if you failed your morale test by 3. In my mind this rule is actually the opposite of what people have been saying. It’s more powerful against multi dmg attacks and mortal wounds, but just as good against attacks on single wound models as a regular fnp.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I said I wasn’t gonna do this, but I have a bit of a reputation for magnetising models now, so I pretty much have to now lol



Other weapons:
https://imgur.com/gallery/PCuSI

Also what engine does this forum use? Can’t figure out how to resize img tags

Wulfey wrote:
Also, Cawl. Cawl gives up 4 "put 2 wounds on a designated character" points. So Cawl is this giant liability in ITC. Magnus can get the same rule, but requires 3 wounds to get 1 secondary point since he is a 'monster'.

What the hell kinda batcrap rules are they making up now? Can’t we just play the game normally? It’s barely been out a few months and they’re already messing with it?

Why can’t they just use the existing objectives? Why invent more unofficial ones when the existing ones are fine? I guess it reduces the random nature of getting good or bad objectives. But if that’s the intention, just use the existing objectives in the same way they’re using their made up ones.

gendoikari87 wrote:
.
Basically tac squads exist to be a threat, not the biggest threat, and sit on objectives. They do that job adequately. Not good. Not super bad. Adequately. If they had report cards they'd get c's and d's for every thing. That's their purpose. They are the core unit the game is designed around

I’ve been working on a similar principal for vanguard. Everyone and their dog ignores a bare 5 man squad. Put 2 plasma calivers in there however and suddenly they’re more of a threat. If only arc rifles were a bit better, though I guess against light vehicles they’re not bad, then we could do it cheaper.

Though an autocannon balistarii is only 2 points more than a plasma vanguard squad...but we have to take troops, we don’t have to take fast attack. Bleh. I’d rather have the iron striders. I’d field a whole army if I could lol.

 ph34r wrote:

Octovol wrote:
I’ve been working on a similar principal for vanguard. Everyone and their dog ignores a bare 5 man squad. Put 2 plasma calivers in there however and suddenly they’re more of a threat. If only arc rifles were a bit better, though I guess against light vehicles they’re not bad, then we could do it cheaper.

Well, yes they become more of a threat and/or an easy target. Adding 2 plasma calivers ups the cost of the unit from 5 vanguard to 8 vanguard, but still has the survivability of 5.

EDIT: Also, why not take rangers to carry your Calivers? They are cheaper.

Them being an easy target is kinda the point though. With or without the calivers they are easy to take down, it’s incentivising your opponent to target them before your other stuff and using them to control the flow of battle. Virtually every battle I’ve played so far if I have anything left at the end, it’s onagers and TPD, sometimes robots. The stuff that died was supposed to die. 8 vanguard with no calivers is just as easy to ignore as 5, but the calivers give you options both in dmg output and strategy.

My first game with the new codex my guard friend conceded his turn 3. I had 2 Neutronager, 2 TPD and 2 robots left, he didn’t even manage to wound any of them; stygies -1 to hit is very strong against guard. In that battle I actually infiltrated my caliver vanguard to within range of his heavy weapons squads, if they didn’t have calivers he wouldn’t even have bother with them and just put more firepower elsewhere.

I would use rangers but if your gun range is 30 they tend to be targeted before you can get the calivers in range; plus you can advance and still fire the radium carbines and calivers. And the carbines are just plain better than galvanic rifles. the number of times I’ve rolled 2 dmg against a vehicle or character is worth having 9 radium shots to go with the 4 caliver shots. Both guns rely on rolling 6s to be mor effective, the carbines is just more worth it.

It’s funny because both the Eldar and IG threads are also whining that they’re not competitive and that their codexes are useless to them lol.

All the -1 to hit traits are a cop out if you ask me, way too powerful.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
@tsol
Kataphrons, Ruststalkers and servitors aren't slightly overpriced... Their cost needs to be cut in HALF. I'm not joking, I did math on most of these

not quite sure about half on destroyers 45-55 maybe. servitors need something more than just a point reduction. they need expanded unit selection I.e. larger units and more can take heavy weapons. Ruststalkers are horrible and infiltrators did NOT need that reduction in attacks

I’d like to see both kataphrons get double their current wounds before I consider them worth their points. I mean a destroyer with a culverin is 70 and 73 with a heavy grav, plus the phosphor blaster (which if you ask me should replace all phosphor serpenta and just get rid of that pos) they’re not expensive as an option, they’re only expensive because they can’t do their role of heavy ranged infantry well enough. An autocannon Ironstrider is 75 points, has double the wounds, more attacks and toughness, more movement, better shooting ability, a better save, better synergy with our strategms and comparable dmg output. ~5 points difference.

FYI dunecrawler points cost is absolutely fine. Leman russ, Falcon grav tanks and fire prisms are all now within 10-20 points of each other, ours being the cheapest of all of them.

*edited to fix my stat inaccuracies.

This is an interesting development. Really enjoyed Wulfey's write-up, even the knee-jerk doom and gloom conclusions

The big question is, if conscript screens are so doomed as you say, what is the rest of the imperium going to use for screening? They're no better off than us.

My conclusion to this is essentially that GW doesnt want us screening. At all. The idea that an army would intentionally wrap it's heavy support in garbage to prevent it being charged only fits fluff-wise for very few armies. Most armies of the imperium would charge out to meet them head on. Ironically it fits for us perfectly, admech wouldnt even think twice about throwing cascades of bodies at any objective, we just dont really have the bodies or leadership support to do that. Anyway what i'm getting at is, and what i'm happy about, is the gravitating away from spam buffers. Because what that means is they want us to properly deal with assault units. Counter an assault with another assault, or shoot it before it gets to you. That is a far more epic and exciting scenario for our battles than ramming a bunch of spongey flesh into a wall of metal. Or vice versa.

The annoying thing about that is we only really have dragoons that fulfil that charge role effectively. Our one truly nasty melee unit is hampered by costly and/or inconvenient delivery mechanisms. If we could get priests to where we needed them, we'd be fine to counter assault units attempting to tie up our shooting. Though I guess if we held them back and wait for assault units to get to us and used staff priests and a truly singular purpose of being counter charge against our heavies then we dont really have to worry about their delivery. if only they had some way of moving a decent amount of distance to charge effectively.

Infiltrators might do this job pretty well, bit pricey though.

What we're still boned on is the psychic phase. C'est la vie. If we can handle assault and shooting i'm absolutely fine with not being able to handle psychic armies; If that becomes our main downfall, i'm ok with that. No army should have an answer for everything.

Iago40k wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Wulfey wrote:
Heyyy, so I have a tournament report from SoCal open. It has gossip. Hopefully I won't get banned and this doesn't go viral beyond this thread. I ran the Celestine + Cawl + Robots + Earthshakers list. This is my effort to write up some notes. I placed 23 at 4-2 and got best admech.

Good work. Nice write-up...

Now to go sell my effing army.

I was on the fence as it is, because while it was a labor of love building and painting, I can't stand getting steamrolled and honestly, with what I am seeing from Eldar and knowing IG do what we do better, what is the point?

what did I miss about Eldar that is so painful to us?

Basically they're decent again now. Fire prisms can fire twice the same as leman russ and banshees can race across the field into combat. They have even better access to -2 to hit and everything they have is now fair. It's the best codex so far imo, in that it actually gave the army what it needed.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Jesus Christ just ran the numbers on the vanquisher and demolisher vs neutronagers

Vs t7 3+

Demolisher 22points per wound per turn.
Vanquisher 28 points per wound per turn
Neutronager 39 points per wound per turn

This is with the leman russ tanks kitted out with plasma cannons and a hull lascannon


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also .... leman russ punishers are now better at kastelans job than kastelans and twice as tough

Do me a favour and run those numbers at absolute minimum dmg and maximum damage. People seem to ignore the fact that every unsaved wound from a neutron laser is 3 wounds min, all the others have a much greater variance.

Leman russ are also much easier to kill, despite their t8, which also means nothing to our neutron laser or even a regular lascannon. A russ also gets no save vs a neutron laser.

Seriously one of my neutron laser shots meant a leman russ couldn't even shoot me outside 12". Sure their potential damage is greater but they are rendered harmless or destroyed just as easy.

What are these numbers again? points per wound? So many unquantified numbers it's getting confusing understanding what we're actually measuring lol

All i see in my mind comparing these is:
Both the plasma and battle cannon variants of the russ you list are 190 and 192 points each. Neutronager with 2 heavy stubbers is 145. If those russ didn't out perform it at something they would be severely gimped.

Imagine what we could do with 2d3 neutron shots lol I mean for every 3 russ and neutronagers we get an entire neutronager for free. How do 4 neutronagers compare to 3 of the russes? You almost have to reduce the comparative effectiveness of the russ by 1/3 to account for the extra points you're spending.

Presume kastellans in this example is for 2 of the robots btw? I dont recall anyone specifically saying, especially considering 2 robots is almost comparable to a single one of those russ variants points-wise.

---

Also if someone could just clarify the GEQ, MEQ and TEQ terms for me? I mean my assumption has been that GEQ is essentially a guardsman/eldar guardian/ork, MEQ is a standard marine and TEQ is heavy infantry like terminators and wraithguard but the terms have never made any sense when i've tried to figure out what they stand for lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also i just realised in looking at those points costs the eradication beamer and twin heavy phosphor are even worse options if you compare points. 30 points each!? all those russ options are all 20 or less bar one. scandalous lol

My guard friend would be parroting, ah but those weapons are mounted on a bs3+ tank instead of a bs4+ tank. To me, doesn't make the gun any better! lol

gendoikari87 wrote:
Points per wound inflicted i.e. Unit cost divided by wounds inflicted.

GEQ: t3 5+
Meq: t4 3+
Teq: t4 2+

They literally mean guard equivalent marine equivalent and so on

Thanks! Not quite as straight forward as I thought.

I’m currently building 5 ironstriders, intending 3 to be dragoons and 2 to be balistarii. The +2 to hit. On 4 lascannon shots isn’t to be sniffed at. I’d consider autocannon too for sure, they also have the advantage of being much much cheaper and 8 * str 7 -1 2dmg shots on 2 decently survivable units seems like a bargain. At least as effective as dragoons but at 48” range

4 balistarii with autocannon is also a comparable cost to dragoons, shame they can’t move and fire with no penalty though.

I can see me always running at least 6 ironstriders.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
They do have the forgeworld keyword. But anyway, elite choice, no point.

I'm just blind. I thought you said he doesn't have forgeworld and has admech derp derp.

If they're 10 points cheaper they might be viable to fill elite slots in a brigade if you werent planning on taking priests or infiltrators. I mean that puts us up to 6 units able to repair anything per turn. That is if the AM version has the same Master of machines rules. *

* edit: It does.

gendoikari87 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

gendoikari87 wrote:
so question. which is tougher to kill an onager with a 5+ invuln or a leman russ with +1w and T8

Depends on what is shooting at them. It factors in more when it is S7 and up weapons, which are usually what is being aimed at them. T8 means that S8 needs 4+ to wound, not 5+ for S7. Enemy S7 against Dunecrawlers needs 4+. So we would take more wounds in theory, but have a 33% chance to stop them.

I feel like this one has just too many variables to answer easily as is. We would need to break it down into specifics.

yeah that's my feeling too. and it probably depends a LOT on meta. if -2 weapons or less are the rage the 5++ doesn't matter -3 it matters some -4 it matters a lot. right now i'd say with plasma spam being prevalent it's probably a wash between the -3 (point in favor of the crawler and str 7/8(point in favor of the russ)

You've also got the 5++ re-roll on crawlers if two are next to eachother. anything -3 and above puts the russ at a distinct disadvantage imo, saving on a 6 on -3 or getting no save on a -4. But as you say str 7 and -3 is the standard for plasma which is extremely accessible compared to -4 weapons. technically a crawler can be repaired more effectively than a russ, if it survives the round. A dunecrawler also has no penalty in firepower for moving to retreat.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
They do have the forgeworld keyword. But anyway, elite choice, no point.

If they don't have the "Ad Mech" Keyword, the entire detachment they are in wouldn't benefit from canticles, it wold end up being an "Imperium" detachment

Spoil sport it has the cult mechanicus keyword, so if you wanted to be pure cult you could still use them as elites.

based on the numbers posted here, the difference between an icarus and neutron onager isnt significant enough for me to pick an icarus over neutron. UNLESS i know there's a boat load of tough fly units to be shot. It's just too marginal considering the icarus is at penalty to non fly.

Danny slag wrote:
Anyone try rust stalkers with stygie? Seems like their strategam eleviates the one big flaw they have of no transport to get them up the board. I know they aren't .000000001% most effective by spreadsheeting in a vacume that doesn't account for actual tactics and army composition, but I'm not interested in taking an army that's cawl+12 robots *yawn*. so I'm wondering if anyone has actually tried it who can comment.

I ran some today as a counter charge unit and all they succeeded in doing was allowing my opponent to tie his venoms in combat with them so I couldn’t shoot them. They lasted 2 rounds of combat and did virtually nothing, about 3 wounds on a venom. They’re essentially vanguard that can’t shoot for double the cost.

I only took them to be a target and fill points. I won’t be taking them again, snapping them and making them Infiltrators next chance I get....or I might leave them because they look badass in the hopes they somehow get a buff later. Unlikely. I’d go staff priests if I wanted to infiltrate a melee unit that wasn’t dragoons. Which incidentally my 3 strong unit of dragoons took out and entire incubi unit in one round, but that’s largely down to conqueror strat. Exploding on 4s at str 8 -1 and 2 dmg is probably better than the priests could do anyway.

Wulfey wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
Ruststalkers are probably the worst unit in AdMech. I would sooner take Servitors than them. >_>


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ugh, finally finished another Dragoon. These things take forever, and I've been in crunch time at work all month.

Spoiler:

So, i had a match over the weekend with my friend's dark eldar army; 1500 points roughly.

The odds were stacked against me, mission was contact lost and 5 of the objective markers were his side of the board. So needless to say i lost on points turn 5 with half my army still intact and most of his destroyed.

What I'm really struggling to cope with is the FLY keyword, to me it seems absurdly underpointed. A flying unit can move where ever the hell it likes, land where it likes, fallback and shoot in any direction. For what seems like no additional points.

What it boiled down to is he had:



Every single unit moves at least 16 inches, the flyers up to 72. So no matter how I deployed there was no stopping them getting wherever they wanted to go. Numerous times he would land a venom behind a ruin and charge through it immune to overwatch.

Everything he had was deployed out of sight, they can all move and fire at no penalty, not that it mattered because he went first.

So I mean I didn't struggle to deal damage and take stuff out, when i could see it and my stuff wasn't tied in combat, but I couldnt get anywhere near his objectives without just ignoring everything.

I ran:




essentially this was my entire collection, just to make up points.

He dropped his warriors on backfield objectives out of LOS and then flew the venoms forward shooting and harassing. This is the first time i'd used dragoons and balistarii, both performed great, less so with the las balistarii because everything he has has an invulnerable save. Either way i could have done with more dragoons I think as he got some lucky shots and rolled 6 for dmg on 2 of them, otherwise i could have done a lot more with them.

Has anyone any advice for going against DE? His other army is Tyranids and foresee similar issues there lol