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This isn't going to be a thread about what is going and why it is going (although feel free to discuss this here). I'm more concerned about how FW and GW are handling this last chance to buy stuff. I'm going to be honest! I think it's a plot or at the very least an awful thing to do to fans who have spent hundreds if not thousands on your products. By not telling anybody why these things are going off sale you are potentially going to maake some enemies if you have plans for plastic replacements. In addition, customers are unable to be of the right mind when purchasing these objects as they're unsure if it really is the last chance (someone may spend hundreds then find them staying or they might hold off to see and lose them for ever). From my sales experience I was always told this was a wrong thing to do (there is a fine line between encouraging a customer to buy stuff and perhaps cheating them out of money. We were trianed to tell people why the objects are going and if they really are the last objects in stock).

So what do you guys think? Is this the right way to do business or wrong? Will you buy anything or leave it?

Context: FW is removing a bunch of HH and 40k stuff (some only put on sale within the last year or two) but they're not telling the consumer why these items are being discontinued. By doing so they are potentially encouraging mass panic buying while having plans to re release some of the objects or put them back on sale. Or they might have plans to never out them on sale meaning players will be left out and turn to recasts.

Gw has been putting models out of sale and far more critical ones. So do many others. Why should fw be forced to pay for few to be able to buy?

Of course one option might be made to order but price would reflect it. Double might not cover it. Want to pay say 4x instead?

The FW stuff that's on sale right now is all torsos and heads.

Most people don't use tacticals in 40k anymore.

How could this possibly make a difference?

tneva82 wrote:
Gw has been putting models out of sale and far more critical ones. So do many others. Why should fw be forced to pay for few to be able to buy?

Of course one option might be made to order but price would reflect it. Double might not cover it. Want to pay say 4x instead?

This isn't about them no longer producing models. This is about them mass stopping production on some important peices and not informing the consumer why. If they informed everyone why production was stopping it was ease the tention but we have no idea so can't tell if we should bulk buy or wait.


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 techsoldaten wrote:
The FW stuff that's on sale right now is all torsos and heads.

Most people don't use tacticals in 40k anymore.

How could this possibly make a difference?

You mean most competitive players? There is still a huge narrative and open ppayer base who like to make fluffy armies. I personally have 30+ tactical marines in my force and 15 of them are hh models.

Moulds are expensive. If FW aren't making enough profit to justify recasting a mould or whatever I can see why they'd take stuff down.

Honestly though i'd like to see more FW stuff be converted to plastic and added to the main armies like the trygon and contemptor dread were.

I won't insult anyone's intelligence by suggesting they think FW is their "friend" and is betraying them with their business decisions, but they really don't owe anyone any explanations for their actions.

Would it be better "PR" if they did? Maybe, I guess. They are responding to e-mails with a more or less generalized response they give when they discontinue any product. How detailed of a response are people expecting? They're not going to present a graph of all their products and how they're selling over time to somehow justify to their fans that had no other choice but to discontinue certain things.

As much as the folks working at the company care about the game, they care about having a job more than our ability to plan future projects or have a certain variant of shoulderpads on our little toy soldiers. They know better than we do what keeping their business afloat entails. Maybe there is the odd individual out there who really does know better than they do, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here.

Such is life. If you want something and you can afford it, buy it. Nothing lasts forever. GW and FW will both go out of business or transform in some way eventually. Enjoy it while you can, let go of the things you can't control. If you care or worry so much that you're considering buying parts in bulk, just do it and be happy with your hobby.

There's precisely one reason they would stop producing a whole range: they aren't selling well enough to justify the upkeep of the moulds and the shelf space.

It's totally understandable for them as a business to not outright state it.

Stux wrote:
There's precisely one reason they would stop producing a whole range: they aren't selling well enough to justify the upkeep of the moulds and the shelf space.

It's totally understandable for them as a business to not outright state it.

I'd understand but would be nice to just clear up these objects will be gone for ever with confirmation they're not coming back. I personally know a lot of people who feel pressure to buy thesenitems now but scared they'll make a you turn. Like this is a ploy by GW to just mass sell items and they're not really going to remove them forever.

They've removed a lot of their products over time, never to return. I think it's more likely than not they'll be gone gone.

 lolman1c wrote:

Stux wrote:
There's precisely one reason they would stop producing a whole range: they aren't selling well enough to justify the upkeep of the moulds and the shelf space.

It's totally understandable for them as a business to not outright state it.

I'd understand but would be nice to just clear up these objects will be gone for ever with confirmation they're not coming back. I personally know a lot of people who feel pressure to buy thesenitems now but scared they'll make a you turn. Like this is a ploy by GW to just mass sell items and they're not really going to remove them forever.

You are insane.

They are not coming back. FW has discontinued tons of items over the years and only a very small number have come back because of high demand. The "last chance" stuff is almost certainly gone forever, and it it does come back it was because the financial picture changed, not because it was some bizarre attempt to boost sales.

 lolman1c wrote:

Stux wrote:
There's precisely one reason they would stop producing a whole range: they aren't selling well enough to justify the upkeep of the moulds and the shelf space.

It's totally understandable for them as a business to not outright state it.

I'd understand but would be nice to just clear up these objects will be gone for ever with confirmation they're not coming back. I personally know a lot of people who feel pressure to buy thesenitems now but scared they'll make a you turn. Like this is a ploy by GW to just mass sell items and they're not really going to remove them forever.

Simply, they probably don't know for absolute certain. They might one day want to rerelease some of the kits, and don't want to close that door, however unlikely it might be.

I’m glad they at least give us a heads up

I spent my wargaming budget for the next three months, but between the sale on the Dreadnoughts and buying shoulder pads and weapons that I might want to use down the road I have everything that I want from them For just upgrade pieces for all of the stuff that I want to do with my army.

I would’ve been somewhat upset if they just pulled the shoulder pads not told anyone.

 Peregrine wrote:
They are not coming back. FW has discontinued tons of items over the years and only a very small number have come back because of high demand. The "last chance" stuff is almost certainly gone forever, and it it does come back it was because the financial picture changed, not because it was some bizarre attempt to boost sales.

And even if they are they won't be the same.

I mean it's possible (unlikely imo) that we'll get plastic Elysians but they won't match the resin ones exactly.

Hard to care. I never built a legion-specific army and even if I did, the additional cost of getting upgrade packs would make it tougher to afford just to add some spiffy designs. A lot of them look cool, but it's just more marines.

Let's be real, the Horus Heresy book series is coming to a conclusion soon. The game has run its course and 8th edition is out. People that went to 30k to escape 7th edition are now coming back to 8th edition, and most of them are able to use all the same models.

Should FW have communicated with us? My answer to that is: Haven't they? They're telling us now. By putting these as 'last chance to buy' they're telling us everything we need to know. Either the molds are old and damaged or the kits just aren't selling as well as they used to.

A lot of people point to the fact that the Space Wolf upgrade pack came out not long ago and they're already pulling it. Well, wouldn't you if you released something and it didn't sell very hot? Space Wolves already have specific tactical boxes and many Space Wolf players have already converted up their armies with those. I bet they released that upgrade pack, saw it didn't sell nearly as well as some of the others, and said 'well, that's that, it's silly to keep producing them at this rate' and decided to pull the line.

This also opens FW up to make other things. Their space and machines are not limitless. In order to keep making new sculpts for all this Necromunda and Blood Bowl shenanigans, as well as new projects in the future, they'll need to make room for them. Getting rid of 18 upgrade kits and Elysians that aren't selling is a great way to do that.

The fact of the matter is that someday your favorite kit won't be on the shelves any more. This goes for Warhammer, Lego, Bandai, tons of toys, models, kits, and other things. If you want them, buy them. If you didn't get a chance to buy them, oh well, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

It would be nice if FW told us why the Legion kits are being discontinued.

I guess you could hope for the EXACT REASON, but I have a hard time saying this isn't good enough:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
I guess you could hope for the EXACT REASON, but I have a hard time saying this isn't good enough:

That looks like a boilerplate answer though. There's nothing specific about why they removed it, just a list of possible reasons.

 meleti wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
I guess you could hope for the EXACT REASON, but I have a hard time saying this isn't good enough:

That looks like a boilerplate answer though. There's nothing specific about why they removed it, just a list of possible reasons.

What other reason do you really expect than "FW decided they make more profit without them"?

Conspiracy theories on to maximum if you think that's not the reason.

tneva82 wrote:

 meleti wrote:

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
I guess you could hope for the EXACT REASON, but I have a hard time saying this isn't good enough:

That looks like a boilerplate answer though. There's nothing specific about why they removed it, just a list of possible reasons.

What other reason do you really expect than "FW decided they make more profit without them"?

Conspiracy theories on to maximum if you think that's not the reason.

I'd like some real communication, yeah. If these kits weren't selling well enough to justify shelf space, say that. If there's a plastic kit coming in the future, say that. Whatever the reason is, just communicate it. I don't even care why they did it.It's just ridiculous that Forge World is some monolithic company that never speaks to its customers. They could learn a lot from themselves (Games Workshop) about how to do that properly.

 meleti wrote:
I'd like some real communication, yeah. If these kits weren't selling well enough to justify shelf space, say that. If there's a plastic kit coming in the future, say that. Whatever the reason is, just communicate it. I don't even care why they did it.It's just ridiculous that Forge World is some monolithic company that never speaks to its customers. They could learn a lot from themselves (Games Workshop) about how to do that properly.

Ummmm...GW has done exact same thing in the past. Funny you say they should take lesson from GW when this is basically 100% what they have done.

But yeah that's logical. Let's demand FW do it better than GW and other companies! FW should pay money to keep happy few customers! Forget profits! FW should be in it for charity!

If I would get dollar for every model GW has put out of sale I would be a rich man. At least here FW gives you fair warning and not just pull the plug in silence like GW has done.

 meleti wrote:
It's just ridiculous that Forge World is some monolithic company that never speaks to its customers. They could learn a lot from themselves (Games Workshop) about how to do that properly.

This is hilarious, given how in the past people have complained that GW never speaks to their customers and needs to learn from FW. And no, they aren't refusing to speak, they're just refusing to give you private financial information on the inner details of their business. They've told you that the kits are being removed as they are no longer a viable product, and they've given you one last chance to buy them if you're interested. You don't need to know if they're being removed because of damage to the master molds or simply because they don't sell well enough to justify continued warehouse space. The information has no practical value to you, it just feeds your desire to know those private details.

The only legitimate complaint you might have is if they're replaced by a plastic kit, but that's pretty unlikely. GW doesn't do kits like that, and very very few FW models get plastic kits.

tneva82 wrote:

 meleti wrote:
I'd like some real communication, yeah. If these kits weren't selling well enough to justify shelf space, say that. If there's a plastic kit coming in the future, say that. Whatever the reason is, just communicate it. I don't even care why they did it.It's just ridiculous that Forge World is some monolithic company that never speaks to its customers. They could learn a lot from themselves (Games Workshop) about how to do that properly.

Ummmm...GW has done exact same thing in the past. Funny you say they should take lesson from GW when this is basically 100% what they have done.

But yeah that's logical. Let's demand FW do it better than GW and other companies! FW should pay money to keep happy few customers! Forget profits! FW should be in it for charity!

If I would get dollar for every model GW has put out of sale I would be a rich man. At least here FW gives you fair warning and not just pull the plug in silence like GW has done.

What on earth are you on about?

This is hilarious, given how in the past people have complained that GW never speaks to their customers and needs to learn from FW

GW has gotten a lot better. FW can too.

tneva82 wrote:
FW should pay money to keep happy few customers! Forget profits! FW should be in it for charity!

Nobody is expecting FW to be a charity, we just want them to keep stuff in stock. Resin casting is a process that scales very easy with sales volume. You can run it as "cast on demand" and only produce a copy of a kit if someone has bought it, guaranteeing a profit on every sale. And that lets you maintain the diversity of product options that keeps people buying and allowing FW in normal games. The only "cost" is the storage space for the molds, but unless the UK is completely different from the US in terms of property values I find it inconceivable that the storage space for the molds has any meaningful price. So there's a lot of frustration that the people running things just don't get it and are making product decisions that make sense in other markets but not in the gaming industry.

 meleti wrote:

What on earth are you on about?

This is hilarious, given how in the past people have complained that GW never speaks to their customers and needs to learn from FW

GW has gotten a lot better. FW can too.

GW has dropped models out of sale. There's hundreds of models if not thousands they have made you can't buy anymore. And they have dropped those without prewarning. One day they are simply gone.

At least FW gives chance to buy(and quarantees you get what you bought) and unlike GW gives email warning as well(don't know if GW gives sometimes but at least not every time)

FW as it is IS doing better than GW. So if you are unhappy with FW you should be even more unhappy with GW.

But yeah keep telling you GW hasn't and will not put models out of sale. Self deception is wonderful thing isn't it?

I'm saying this from a sales background! If a customer asks why they are going we have to answer. Sometimes new and improved stock was coming in and other times production was just stopping or the company went bust.

Also all of these items are full priced, FW is the only business on esrth who has a "last chance to buy" with no sort of deal at all.

Also, I do not take the "they're a company looking for profit" excuse seriously anymore. Just because they're a company doesn't mean they can't have a profit and support (or at least give the illusion) they support their customers. It's like a company wanting to chop down a sacred forest that is very important to the people just because it might make them a few extra pennies than if they chopped the forest nobody wants down the road. A business must be brutal but it also hase to maintain ethics. The customer should always be first.

 lolman1c wrote:
Also all of these items are full priced, FW is the only business on esrth who has a "last chance to buy" with no sort of deal at all.

They have tiny amounts of on-hand stock. If no-one orders them they just don't make more and if the mould is failing then the last thing they want is a rush of orders.

Why would they discount them?

Well the reason why FW is getting rid of upgrade kits is pretty straight forward.

There is no need to produce MkIII and Mk IV armor since GW makes a cheaper plastic kit. There is also no reason for FW to be making insignia's since GW lost their court case with Chapter house and now there are dozens of 3rd party companies that are making the insignia for half the cost of FW

Just check out pop goes the monkey, they are making a wider range of FWesq upgrade kits for half the cost.

I really don’t get the big deal about this, they at least give you warning.GW have dropped several Space Marine models from their website in the past year with no warning at all. Is it bad form to drop lines without giving a good reason, yes to a degree, but the answer is usually obvious. It hurts goodwill but they already warn you, which as a business they do not need to do.

When they drop Solar Auxilia and Elysians and Macharius Omegas etc:
"Man, that's a damn shame. Beautiful models."

When they drop anything Space Marine related:
"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE y you do dis!??!"