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Hello!

I used to play some 40k back in the day, but I've been out of the loop for quite a while working on other games. I'd like to come back a bit, but when I build up my army this time I'd like to have the army work around a centerpiece model as I'm getting much better at painting and modeling now than I was. While titans are cool, I'm much more impressed by some of the primarch models and that sort of thing. I've looked around the Forge World website, but without knowing what I'm looking for I'm just sort of clicking around. To my knowledge, now that Alpharius is out only Dark Angels, Blood Angels and White Scars are missing their Primarch? Any other armies have similar HQ-type centerpieces I could build around? I know this question might not quite be helpful because I've been out of the loop for so long, so please just ask me to clarify anything.

Thanks!

Is this supposed to be in the Horus Heresy forum? The only primarchs that have been released for 40k are Magnus, Mortarion, and Guilliman.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, this is Magnus as he is in the Horus Heresy game, which is a separate ruleset from 40k. In 40k you use this Magnus.

Mortarion and the Death Guard.

Magnus and the Thousand Sons.

Guilliman and Ultramarines.

A Tesseract Vault and Necrons.

An Imperial Knight and Mechanicus.

Wraithknight and Eldar.

Stompa and Orks.

Stormsurge and Tau.

You really don't have to take a look at Forgeworld anymore to find the big models . I'd say there are few armies that don't have a big centerpiece model... Dark Eldar and some subfactions are the only ones' that come to mind.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Is this supposed to be in the Horus Heresy forum? The only primarchs that have been released for 40k are Magnus, Mortarion, and Guilliman.

Okay, even that is more than I knew. Sorry, didn't realize that they didn't have rules for both! Are they different models, or same models but different rules? Thanks!

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Mortarion and the Death Guard.

Magnus and the Thousand Sons.

Guilliman and Ultramarines.

A Tesseract Vault and Necrons.

An Imperial Knight and Mechanicus.

Wraithknight and Eldar.

Stompa and Orks.

Stormsurge and Tau.

You really don't have to take a look at Forgeworld anymore to find the big models . I'd say there are few armies that don't have a big centerpiece model... Dark Eldar and some subfactions are the only ones' that come to mind.

Thanks for the tips! It doesn't have to be big, just something I can go over the top on and then build around thematically. Definitely like the idea of it being a leader of the army rather than the biggest gun. A knight that led from the front wouldn't be bad though!

 LostRabbit wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Is this supposed to be in the Horus Heresy forum? The only primarchs that have been released for 40k are Magnus, Mortarion, and Guilliman.

Okay, even that is more than I knew. Sorry, didn't realize that they didn't have rules for both! Are they different models, or same models but different rules? Thanks!

All right, good to get that cleared up. In terms of balance I think the strongest LOW units are Mortarion (Death Guard), the Tesseract Vault (Necrons), and the Shadowsword (Imperial Guard). Pretty much every faction other than Dark Eldar has a LOW of some kind, though most of them aren't very good.

Character cerntrepiece - St Celestine and the twins for Sisters of Battle

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 LostRabbit wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Is this supposed to be in the Horus Heresy forum? The only primarchs that have been released for 40k are Magnus, Mortarion, and Guilliman.

Okay, even that is more than I knew. Sorry, didn't realize that they didn't have rules for both! Are they different models, or same models but different rules? Thanks!

All right, good to get that cleared up. In terms of balance I think the strongest LOW units are Mortarion (Death Guard), the Tesseract Vault (Necrons), and the Shadowsword (Imperial Guard). Pretty much every faction other than Dark Eldar has a LOW of some kind, though most of them aren't very good.

Good to know. I have just started talking to people locally, and have already heard people complaining about Mortarion so I assume he is quite popular.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Character cerntrepiece - St Celestine and the twins for Sisters of Battle

Where do I find this one? =D

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Just to make sure we're on the same page, this is Magnus as he is in the Horus Heresy game, which is a separate ruleset from 40k. In 40k you use this Magnus.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up! Is Heresy substantially different, or largely the same with different options available? (sorry, I'm even more noob than I realized).

If it's more about characters than guns for you I'd also suggest Chaos daemons with a Greater Daemon or CSM with a Daemon Prince.

Just have a look at the games workshop website and browse through the various factions.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
If it's more about characters than guns for you I'd also suggest Chaos daemons with a Greater Daemon or CSM with a Daemon Prince.

Just have a look at the games workshop website and browse through the various factions.

Yep, that's what I'm doing now/have been doing, but it was getting a bit overwhelming. I might have ended up getting a Horus Heresy thing by mistake if not for this thread!

 LostRabbit wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Just to make sure we're on the same page, this is Magnus as he is in the Horus Heresy game, which is a separate ruleset from 40k. In 40k you use this Magnus.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up! Is Heresy substantially different, or largely the same with different options available? (sorry, I'm even more noob than I realized).

Horus Heresy is a spinoff of the 7th edition rules that only involves the Space Marine legions fighting each other. It has a lot of different units, all of which are resin Forge World models.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 LostRabbit wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Just to make sure we're on the same page, this is Magnus as he is in the Horus Heresy game, which is a separate ruleset from 40k. In 40k you use this Magnus.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up! Is Heresy substantially different, or largely the same with different options available? (sorry, I'm even more noob than I realized).

Horus Heresy is a spinoff of the 7th edition rules that only involves the Space Marine legions fighting each other. It has a lot of different units, all of which are resin Forge World models.

Thanks for the info!

I'm clicking through the main site and I see Belisarius Cawl who looks pretty cool. How is he in game terms?

 LostRabbit wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Is this supposed to be in the Horus Heresy forum? The only primarchs that have been released for 40k are Magnus, Mortarion, and Guilliman.

Okay, even that is more than I knew. Sorry, didn't realize that they didn't have rules for both! Are they different models, or same models but different rules? Thanks!

The Forgeworld Horus Heresy game - often referred to as 30K - is I believe is based on 7th Ed 40k rules and makes use of all the old marine armour marks, heresy-era vehicles and heresy era legion-specific troops that FW make. So all the Primarchs that they do are geared up for that and represent them in the heresy era. Note for example that the Chaos Primarchs haven't become daemon princes yet, then compare the FW Magnus and Mortarion to the GW ones, which are very much daemonic. This will be why they don't have 40k rules - the Forgeworld Chaos Primarchs definitely don't depict them how they are in 40k era, and the loyalists aside from Guilliman are still lost or thought to be dead. I expect we'll see most of the Primarchs make a return in plastic to the main 40k game, but for the minute it's just Magnus, Guilliman and Mortarion. Rumour is that Leman Russ will be coming soon when the Space Wolves get their codex, but this is more a prediction based on GW's pattern of plastic Primarch releases than anything else. A lot of folks also think that Ghazghkull will be getting a new primarch-sized model when the Ork codex drops, but I think that's just prediction/wishlisting too.

Aside from the Primarchs though, most of the Heresy era stuff is still valid for 40k and has 40k rules - things like Leviathan dreadnoughts, Mk II armour and Spartan tanks are rare in the 41st millennium, but they do still exist. A fair number of those, particularly something like the Leviathan, would make a good centrepiece for a marine army and could fit into any flavour of marines.

If you're looking for a character more than a large warmachine, then daemon princes might fit. Or for Eldar, a Forgeworld Avatar would do nicely - I've got one and it's a lovely model. Mine is the one with the sword, which seems to have disappeared off the Forgeworld webstore at the minute (not sure whether discontinued or repackaged?) but the spear one looks great too.

 Bellerophon wrote:

 LostRabbit wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Is this supposed to be in the Horus Heresy forum? The only primarchs that have been released for 40k are Magnus, Mortarion, and Guilliman.

Okay, even that is more than I knew. Sorry, didn't realize that they didn't have rules for both! Are they different models, or same models but different rules? Thanks!

The Forgeworld Horus Heresy game - often referred to as 30K - is I believe is based on 7th Ed 40k rules and makes use of all the old marine armour marks, heresy-era vehicles and heresy era legion-specific troops that FW make. So all the Primarchs that they do are geared up for that and represent them in the heresy era. Note for example that the Chaos Primarchs haven't become daemon princes yet, then compare the FW Magnus and Mortarion to the GW ones, which are very much daemonic. This will be why they don't have 40k rules - the Forgeworld Chaos Primarchs definitely don't depict them how they are in 40k era, and the loyalists aside from Guilliman are still lost or thought to be dead. I expect we'll see most of the Primarchs make a return in plastic to the main 40k game, but for the minute it's just Magnus, Guilliman and Mortarion. Rumour is that Leman Russ will be coming soon when the Space Wolves get their codex, but this is more a prediction based on GW's pattern of plastic Primarch releases than anything else. A lot of folks also think that Ghazghkull will be getting a new primarch-sized model when the Ork codex drops, but I think that's just prediction/wishlisting too.

Aside from the Primarchs though, most of the Heresy era stuff is still valid for 40k and has 40k rules - things like Leviathan dreadnoughts, Mk II armour and Spartan tanks are rare in the 41st millennium, but they do still exist. A fair number of those, particularly something like the Leviathan, would make a good centrepiece for a marine army and could fit into any flavour of marines.

If you're looking for a character more than a large warmachine, then daemon princes might fit. Or for Eldar, a Forgeworld Avatar would do nicely - I've got one and it's a lovely model. Mine is the one with the sword, which seems to have disappeared off the Forgeworld webstore at the minute (not sure whether discontinued or repackaged?) but the spear one looks great too.

Good summary! I'm excited to hear more primarchs might come to 40k proper, and wonder if I should wait for that (though it sounds like it will be a long time coming). I'm looking through the Forge World 40k section and that Avatar looks good, as does the Blood Ravens guy, and the Prince of the Ruinstorm.

 LostRabbit wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Character cerntrepiece - St Celestine and the twins for Sisters of Battle

Where do I find this one? =D

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Marine-Celestine-The-Living-Saint-2018

How are you defining a 'centrepiece' model?

For example, a Leman Russ could or Basilisk be a centrepiece model in an IG infantry army.

 vipoid wrote:
How are you defining a 'centrepiece' model?

For example, a Leman Russ could or Basilisk be a centrepiece model in an IG infantry army.

Absolutely! In my case, I'm hoping to find some kind of leader model though (so I'm picturing more HQ type things).

But yes, absolutely a Leman Russ could be a centerpiece model if the army was otherwise infantry and it was novel as compared to the rest of the force.

 LostRabbit wrote:
Absolutely! In my case, I'm hoping to find some kind of leader model though (so I'm picturing more HQ type things).

Leman Russ Tank Commander.


More seriously, have you given any thought to converting an HQ?

For a while, I wanted to have my IG army led by St. Celestine. However, I wasn't a fan of the model and I also wanted something a little different so I had a go at making a fallen angel type model:



Obviously it depends on your army, but this made for quite an enjoyable centrepiece in an army where everything else was footslogging infantry.

 vipoid wrote:

 LostRabbit wrote:
Absolutely! In my case, I'm hoping to find some kind of leader model though (so I'm picturing more HQ type things).

Leman Russ Tank Commander.


More seriously, have you given any thought to converting an HQ?

For a while, I wanted to have my IG army led by St. Celestine. However, I wasn't a fan of the model and I also wanted something a little different so I had a go at making a fallen angel type model:

Spoiler:

Obviously it depends on your army, but this made for quite an enjoyable centrepiece in an army where everything else was footslogging infantry.

I have thought about it a little, but I may think about it some more. However it works out, I do want the model/army to be playable.

Some questions this thread has generated:
1) I kind of hate the plastic Gulliman. Would I be allowed to use the Resin one as a counts as, since it's obviously the same guy? It's not even as different as the traitor primarchs would be.
2) How is Belisarius Cawl in game terms? I like his model.

 LostRabbit wrote:

I have thought about it a little, but I may think about it some more. However it works out, I do want the model/army to be playable.

Some questions this thread has generated:
1) I kind of hate the plastic Gulliman. Would I be allowed to use the Resin one as a counts as, since it's obviously the same guy? It's not even as different as the traitor primarchs would be.

I think they're pretty different in terms of height and base size. That might raise a few issues with certain players. Again, for saying it's the same guy, they are noticeably different -like how despite FW's Magnus and GW's Magnus being the same guy, they are vastly different.

Again, you might want to base this on what kind of people you'd be playing against, but there are reasons why people might decline.

2) How is Belisarius Cawl in game terms? I like his model.

Cawl's not bad at all. He is pretty solid buffing an army around him, and Adeptus Mechanicus aren't a bad army by any stretch.

Just to add my two cents. Dark Angels with a fortress of redemption can be a good looking army with a centerpiece. I know it’s the typical answer but there it is.

Great criterion for choosing a new army, I like it!

Tyranids spring to mind - they have so many centrepiece units.

Ad Mech have Bellisarius Cawl, a centrepiece if ever there was one, plus knights work well in their faction, plus in 6months to a year they'll be getting access to all the admech stuff on forgeworld, lots of nice models there.

If you're wanting character, Adeptus Custodes is basically characters all the way down, very low model count, pretty competitive and are getting new releases apparently.

Finally, Death Guard or Thousand Sons both have great Daemon Primarch models.

Don't know if it was mentioned here already but FW is releasing a knight sized Canoptek walker for Necrons. I think that would be a pretty cool center piece

There are many different armiis with centerpiece models.
As you mentioned, Belisarius cawl for admech is awesome.
You could try to convert something as doing this is always extremely rewarding.
The main ones would be greater daemons or the daemon primarchs, they all have astounding models and hold their own in the game.
A custodes army presents the chance to go completely over the top on a model, and they are good in the game too. ( I think using FW constantin valdor as a counts-as valoris would be awesome)
There are plenty of options it's just whatever really springs out.

Baneblade/Shdadowsword for the Guard. Big tank [or possibly 3 big tanks], for all your little tanks and guys to fan out around and look nice. Also, they look way nicer than the newer Lords of War.

FW also has a lot of really nice Guard models.

Crazy Jay wrote:Just to add my two cents. Dark Angels with a fortress of redemption can be a good looking army with a centerpiece. I know it’s the typical answer but there it is.

Don't worry about typical answers with me, because I don't know what anything is! Is the Fortress of Redemption like...a model you would put in your army? Or just sweet looking terrain?

Sgt_Smudge wrote:I think they're pretty different in terms of height and base size. That might raise a few issues with certain players. Again, for saying it's the same guy, they are noticeably different -like how despite FW's Magnus and GW's Magnus being the same guy, they are vastly different.

This is good to know. It's not clear from the pictures how different they are (though the resin certainly looks more impressive. I think I'll steer clear just in case. Thanks!

Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Cawl's not bad at all. He is pretty solid buffing an army around him, and Adeptus Mechanicus aren't a bad army by any stretch.

This is reassuring. I don't need to be super top tier try hard, but I'd like the army to be reasonable. How would you describe AdMech's position? Middle of the road?

grouchoben wrote:Tyranids spring to mind - they have so many centrepiece units.

Good call, I dunno why I hadn't thought of them. How are they commonly played now? Mostly big stuff or swarms?

grouchoben wrote:
Ad Mech have Bellisarius Cawl, a centrepiece if ever there was one, plus knights work well in their faction, plus in 6months to a year they'll be getting access to all the admech stuff on forgeworld, lots of nice models there.

I think this is where I'm currently leaning.

grouchoben wrote:
If you're wanting character, Adeptus Custodes is basically characters all the way down, very low model count, pretty competitive and are getting new releases apparently.

For some reason I hadn't really thought of Custodes either. I think because I was never in to Daemonhunters, as they were more expensive marines and not awesome. I will click through their stuff.

grouchoben wrote:
Finally, Death Guard or Thousand Sons both have great Daemon Primarch models.

I don't think I'm feeling Mortarian, and I get the sense the locals are sick of him anyway. Magnus is speaking to me more.


New questions, rather than a new thread:
1) What does a typical AdMech list have in it? I don't need a tourney only list (or even an actual list), just a list of common "these are played" and "these definitely aren't". I'd hate to pick based on looks of models that don't see play. Example: I always liked the looks of Warp Spiders, Swooping Hawks and Shining Spears, and in one of the editions I played all three were flaming piles; everyone took Striking Scorpions (probably the worst Eldar models) and Banshees (Meh). At least I heard Warp Spiders were eventually good.
2) Same question, but Tyranids.
3) Same question, but Thousand Sons.

Thank you everyone in this thread! So helpful! Gonna go look at Custodes models now.

 LostRabbit wrote:

New questions, rather than a new thread:
1) What does a typical AdMech list have in it? I don't need a tourney only list (or even an actual list), just a list of common "these are played" and "these definitely aren't". I'd hate to pick based on looks of models that don't see play. Example: I always liked the looks of Warp Spiders, Swooping Hawks and Shining Spears, and in one of the editions I played all three were flaming piles; everyone took Striking Scorpions (probably the worst Eldar models) and Banshees (Meh). At least I heard Warp Spiders were eventually good.
2) Same question, but Tyranids.

Tyranids are in a pretty good place right now. Most of their units are fairly usable.
That said, I'd say things which appear near the top of the 'you can't go wrong with these' list include Hive Tyrants, Genestealers, and Hive Guard.
Things which should probably be avoided include Lictors, and Haruspexes.

Arson Fire wrote:

 LostRabbit wrote:

New questions, rather than a new thread:
1) What does a typical AdMech list have in it? I don't need a tourney only list (or even an actual list), just a list of common "these are played" and "these definitely aren't". I'd hate to pick based on looks of models that don't see play. Example: I always liked the looks of Warp Spiders, Swooping Hawks and Shining Spears, and in one of the editions I played all three were flaming piles; everyone took Striking Scorpions (probably the worst Eldar models) and Banshees (Meh). At least I heard Warp Spiders were eventually good.
2) Same question, but Tyranids.

Tyranids are in a pretty good place right now. Most of their units are fairly usable.
That said, I'd say things which appear near the top of the 'you can't go wrong with these' list include Hive Tyrants, Genestealers, and Hive Guard.
Things which should probably be avoided include Lictors, and Haruspexes.

Perfect, exactly the information I was looking for. Hoping people answer re: the other two as well.

Thanks for the input!

Daemons have some nice centerpiece models with the various Greater Daemons. Khorne has the Bloodthirster (and Skarbrand), Nurgle has the Great Unclean One, and Tzeentch has the Lord of Change. Slaanesh is currently left out in the cold, but rumors have it that they may get some love soon (meaning a big new plastic Keeper of Secrets most likely).

Edit: Also CSM could have the Khorne Lord of Skulls as a very cool centerpiece model.

The gorgon or the marauder for dKoK look beautiful and fit the grimdark aesthetic soooo well

Even the humble Defiler makes a great centerpiece model, and its cheap enough that it doesn't ruin your entire battle plan if it goes down to enemy shooting.