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I kinda want to build Ork junk again!

But... I don't want to paint a hundred Boyz. In fact, the less Boyz the better!

Could I just run a Stompa and a couple Nauts with a bunch of Kanz and Dreds, possibly even Grot Tanks?

I think the rumour is Orks next, so obviously wait for the book, but what's the feasibility of this idea? Would it be fun to play? I seem to remember pitting my SM against a Stompa in 7th and getting totally crushed...

You can do that, but Stompas are currently, in my opinion, the worst unit in 40k, bar none. They're almost impressively bad. Well, except for kustom stompas, which are somehow more points AND worse.

Worse yet, if you bring one, your opponent will feel justified in bringing opposing super heavy(s) that will absolutely crush it.

Orkanauts, dreads, and kans fare better, but not by much.

Unfortunately, the only decent ork lists at the moment involve 200+ models, which I understand is daunting.

I'm not saying you can't field a dread mob type list, but it's not going to be very good.

And this is coming from someone with 5 stompas, 12 deff dreads, 3 orkanauts, and like 18 killa kans.

I also have absolutely zero expectations that the codex will change anything in this regard.

Kans are decent.

Dreads are decent-ish, but need about a 10-20% points cut.

Orkanauts are kind of ok, but need about 10-20% points cut and a massive increase in shooting. Like double.

If stompas cost half the points and got the double the shots and attacks, they'd be ok. That's how bad they are currently. They need MASSIVE changes to be anything but a dumpster fire.

It's possible. But currently a stompa is like 120% overpriced.

I hope they do Stompa's really well int he dex. I think a Stompa Mob dex either as a stand alone like the Imperial Knights, or even a Online PDF like Renegades would be amazing also.

It would certainly be fun to build and paint, but it's also a really, really easy list to counter. Big walkers like the Stompa are surprisingly easy to kill with focused anti-tank fire and (I suppose it depends how many you bring) once the Stompa's gone all that anti-tank is going right into your dreads and kans. Playing objective-based games is also gonna be hard due to your low model count and lack of objective secured.

All those points apply to knights.

Well except they keep winning and forcing the meta to bend in other directions due to that winning.

Reality is that with a couple stratagems, some minor points redo's, and an all Stompa list is just as viable as an all knight list. Perhaps more so if they get the right in faction options, that Imperial Knights soup for right now.

Reemule wrote:
All those points apply to knights.

Well except they keep winning and forcing the meta to bend in other directions due to that winning.

Reality is that with a couple stratagems, some minor points redo's, and an all Stompa list is just as viable as an all knight list. Perhaps more so if they get the right in faction options, that Imperial Knights soup for right now.

...Exceept no? The reason knights are deliciously strong isnt from their sheer size, its because they are easy to tailor to strategies and super custom friendly. Knights can go melee, gunline, take all comers and everything in between. Stompas will not compete.

Also bear in mind a stompa is, what, triple the cost of a knight? And arguably worse than a single. Shooting is worse, melee is the same (or damn close), it degrades faster despite having more wounds, has no invlun save unless you pay ~100 points for it.

Its only advantage is that it has 40 wounds, but they melt away quick to the right weapons.

IMHO, I really doubt the Stompa Rules remain the same for the upcoming dex.

If they fall more in line with Knights, you might see them more than knights.

Current cost on a Stompa is right at 1K. Little more for a kustom stompa.

A Stompa, backed up with some Mork/Gork/nauts, and some Kans and dreads seems fun and thematic. I hope they can do that.

Reemule wrote:
Reality is that with a couple stratagems, some minor points redo's, and an all Stompa list is just as viable as an all knight list. Perhaps more so if they get the right in faction options, that Imperial Knights soup for right now.

If the Stompa got it's points cut almost in half and got a few good stratagems it would probably be about as viable as a Renegade Knight. I don't think it would be as good as an all Imperial Knight army, due to Imperial Knights having loads of different weapon options, stratagems, warlord traits, relics, etc.

I'm not against Imperial Knights having all those things. I don't expect the Stompa to get them in the Ork codex, as it is one unit in a big faction. It probably won't get as much support as Questor Mechanicus got in the AdMech codex. This doesn't bother me, as again the Stompa in the Ork codex is like the Baneblade in the IG codex, where as Knights are billed as their own army.

That said, I would be happy if we got a Dread Mob codex down the road. I'm not optimistic of it happening any time soon as Forge World did it in the past, and the Mega/Meka Dread and Kustom Stompa are Forge World units. Maybe if GW did a reboxing of the Stompa with more options, and an upgrade sprue or reboxing or kitbashing articles or whatever to give us more Orkanaut options, then GW could themselves put out a Dread Mob codex.

If they dropped it to 500 I think it would be fearsome. 500 points for 40 wounds and a 3+ save..

I'd love for it to get some rules to run it as a warlord also, with Traits and some Heirloom options, some weapon options besides the standard, and some Stratagems.

If GW changes them to 650 points, and you could field 3 in a 2K force I think that would be pretty amazing.

Just wait for the codex...threads like this don't serve much of a point till that book drops.

Reemule wrote:
If they dropped it to 500 I think it would be fearsome. 500 points for 40 wounds and a 3+ save..

That's still less durable than a knight with 3++. And with worse shooting and lack of strategems.

Well Crusaders are right over 500 points, and your talking about a Warlord Trait, and a CP spent to get that.

I'm not sure we are comparing apples to other fruit there.

I hope they make Stompas fun and playable, and cost effective, and field-able in multiple ways.

Should be a no brainer, as several people are absolutely convinced that GW only builds rules to sell more models. Why wouldn't they want to sell the hell out of Stompas?

Reemule wrote:
Well Crusaders are right over 500 points, and your talking about a Warlord Trait, and a CP spent to get that.

I'm not sure we are comparing apples to other fruit there.

Yeah, the Stompas lack a built-in invulnerable save, which is significant, but for ~80 points they can get a 5++ against shooting which is the same as an unbuffed Knight.

I haven't mathhammered out Castellan vs Stompa. I have a feeling a Castellan would win most of the time, but you're right about comparing apples to oranges. The Castellan is designed to shoot down big tough units like the Stompa. The stock Ork Stompa is more of an all-rounder, with weapons to fight a variety of different units both in melee and at range* and a large transport capacity.
*It's really ineffective at shooting things though, which is a problem I hope the fix aside from just lowering the points. The Deth Kannon should have a lot more firepower.

It's great that we have a giant model in plastic that is relatively cheap for the size. I find the lack of options on the Stompa very unorky though. Forge World used to have a lot of really fun rules for customizing the Stompa, but the current Kustom Stompa rules are abysmal.

Yeah I'd think that stompas should really get the Renegade treamement. Something like... You have 8 hard points and 2 of them are for Super Weapons. Pick 2 superweapons off the list (can't duplicate) and 6 other weapons, (can't duplicate more than twice) Have fun.

I guess we will find out.

Reemule wrote:
Yeah I'd think that stompas should really get the Renegade treamement. Something like... You have 8 hard points and 2 of them are for Super Weapons. Pick 2 superweapons off the list (can't duplicate) and 6 other weapons, (can't duplicate more than twice) Have fun.

I guess we will find out.

That would be really cool. The old Kustom Stompa rules were similar. There were hard points on the arms, shoulders, head and torso (the more powerful the torso weapon the more that transport capacity would be decreased. Then there a variety of smaller weapons that could be bolted on all over (big shootas, supa rokkits and the like). All these ancillary weapons could be upgraded to a "Deff Arsenal" which allowed us to go crazy modeling all sorts of different weapons on the hull and abstracted them to 2d6 S9 shots and d3 suppa rokkits per turn. It was very orky.

There were also lots of non-weapon upgrades that didn't take up hard points.

There was no stipulation that weapons couldn't be duplicated. I bring this up not to nit-pick your good idea, but rather because the double close combat weapon "klawstompa" is one of the traditional builds both in the game and in the fluff.

I don't have IA:8 in front of me at the moment, but I believe there were several hundred different ways to configure the Stompa with meaningful differences. It was glorious. (IIRC there were thousands of different ways when factoring in insignificant things like the difference between three and four extra big shootas.)

I'm anxiously awaiting to see what they'll do with the Stompa. I'm optimistic that they'll make the stock codex Stompa playable. I'm not as optimistic that GW will make the Stompa more customizable, considering how much they've been cutting from the game do to lack of modeling options. I think that Forge World will eventually release a new Ork book with better rules, including those for the Kustom Stompa, and possibly even a whole new Dread Mob document. I'd guess that is probably going to be many years from now though, unless they do an Armageddon campaign in the near future.

I honestly expect them to just about nothing with the stompa other than some minor tweaks.

Moreover, I also doubt we'll see anything like a real kustom stompa coming back, as GW doesn't really like providing rules for models they don't make, which is honestly reasonable.

I can't say I've lost all hope for the ork codex, but expecting them to fix stompas is, well, a little too much to hope for.

Yeah, not into painting 200+ models. That may well be the only time I would buy prepainted models and not strip & repaint!

I know Orks are traditionally bad, and they're not really for competitive types, but I am the guy who religiously throws Berzerkers at Tau Gunlines for fun so... I can deal with a bad army. It's really more about being able to build Orky stuff and have a use for it, even if that use is target practice for my opponent. I just don't want to paint a ton of infantry models and that's kind of the nucleus of the plan.

How many Stompas could one fit into a 1500 point list? Also, Grot Tanks... Do you think they will make it into the Codex or will we be stuck chasing FW rules around the internet? I for one would pay money for Grot Tanks, if only for the sheer awesomeness of them, but I digress. Should Grot Tanks be left out of the codex, what is the viability of simply running them as Mek Gunz or those other Grot crewed guns? I know the Gunz have crew members and this allows the unit to sort of spread out, but would anyone really mind a homemade Grot Tank in its place?

The codex Stompa is just under 1000 points, so you could fit one in a 1500 point list.

Like Elbows said though, the codex is supposedly going to be out soon and then who knows what point costs will be. (On the other hand I've thought the codex was going to be out soon for the last six months.)

I doubt we'll see Grot Tanks in the codex. While the Grot Tank rules in the index aren't competitive, they aren't nearly as bad as the Stompa and would probably still be fun to play with in casual games.

I wouldn't see a problem with using home built Grot Tanks as Mek Gunz. As long as they have the right weapon gubbinz so people can tell what they are, and you'll need some grots on foot to be gunners. Of course if you're going to a tournament you'd have to ask the TO.

 koooaei wrote:

Reemule wrote:
If they dropped it to 500 I think it would be fearsome. 500 points for 40 wounds and a 3+ save..

That's still less durable than a knight with 3++. And with worse shooting and lack of strategems.

Weil 500pts would be with codex so strategems in. Likely rule changes as well.

Btw that 3++ is witq warlord(cp) and strat(cp) and unless you have just one knight opponent can then shoot elsewhere without that 3++

Ok, it's still worse than 4++. Besides there are knights with native 4++ that goes up to 3++ with a strategem. They tend to cost a bit more than 500 pts though.

But to give you a feel of how stompa performs, try running knight palladin for 800 pts without strategems.

Orks need the equivalent of an IK Codex. Stompas and & Gorkanauts would then fly off the shelves.

 Strg Alt wrote:
Orks need the equivalent of an IK Codex. Stompas and & Gorkanauts would then fly off the shelves.

100% this.

I'd love to see Stompa's fixed. Be that rule rewrites, point changes, whatever.

But just as important would be if they changed the way they can be fielded, to run sort of their own Stompa Mob Codex, with Nauts, Dreds, and various goofy options. Call it a Big Mek warband, or something else.

Reemule wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
Orks need the equivalent of an IK Codex. Stompas and & Gorkanauts would then fly off the shelves.

100% this.

I'd love to see Stompa's fixed. Be that rule rewrites, point changes, whatever.

But just as important would be if they changed the way they can be fielded, to run sort of their own Stompa Mob Codex, with Nauts, Dreds, and various goofy options. Call it a Big Mek warband, or something else.

It would also stop the problem Orkz have which is to attract new blood. Noobs start the hobby and start screening all the factions. Then they look up the Orkz and say:
Jesus, a hundred models to paint?! FU, GW. Therefore fully painted Ork armies are rare like unicorns. Putting the emphasis on big & small stompy robots would change that dynamic for sure.

A great video demonstrating how utterly useless the stompa and walkers are formorks... I seriously want an Ork force stompa force! Who doesn't? Giant gargantuan metal tanks walking accross the feild wouod be amazing but right now it would be a wate of plastic.

 lolman1c wrote:
A great video demonstrating how utterly useless the stompa and walkers are formorks... I seriously want an Ork force stompa force! Who doesn't? Giant gargantuan metal tanks walking accross the feild wouod be amazing but right now it would be a wate of plastic.

Spoiler:

This battle report would have been better with the rules of IKR instead of 8th. Though you would need to homebrew rules for the Stompa and the small robots.

 lolman1c wrote:
A great video demonstrating how utterly useless the stompa and walkers are formorks... I seriously want an Ork force stompa force! Who doesn't? Giant gargantuan metal tanks walking accross the feild wouod be amazing but right now it would be a wate of plastic.

Spoiler:

Ugh. That was embarrassing.

Also, were the points even? It seems like the orks had a substantial points improvement over the knights - I know the stompa is worth at least 2 knights, the orkanauts aren't much cheaper than knights anymore, and toss in all the dreads and kans and it seems like that wasn't an even match, points wise.

Of course, it wasn't an even game, crunch wise.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I actually added up the points, I think correctly, and it was something like orks had 2150 points, knights had about 1650. And knights lost only one armiger.

A Stompa is the worst possible unit in the game right now. The fact that the moron over at FLG (Reece) said it was good has ruined his reputation with ork players more then anything else.

It pays top dollar (in points) to be a transport (like the ridiculously over priced Battlewagon), it pays top dollar to be a really bad gun platform (like the Mork/gorkanauts), it pays top dollar to be good in CC (Also like the nauts except the damage doesn't scale enough) and finally it pays top dollar to be "Durable" which ironically it isn't. In fact, its less durable in 8th edition then in 7th edition, except vs Melta weapons.

So basically you are left with a drastically over priced model which isn't particularly good at anything except for maybe Close combat, but do you really want to be paying 1,000pts for a good close combat unit?

GW need to decide what the stompa is meant to be, its currently pointed like a small gargant/titan, but has stats that pre-date the knights with the same "role"

either make it a knight equiv, points, stats and equipment to match (likely slower, but tougher, better at close range, worse at long), likely with a KFF at least as an option

or make it into a true titan class, somewhere below a warhound in terms of effectiveness