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Well, now that it's confirmed Reivers get the new Vanguard Psycher abilities because they have the Phobos Keyword, does that make them useful again?

By the by, why are we getting these Dev Commentary alterations AFTER the fact, when it was clearly intended from the creation of Reivers that they had Phobos armor? I mean, that leads me to believe one of two things happened:

1. Either you had the entire Vanguard line already established at the time when you created Reivers, and just drip fed us the lineup to make us pay more, in which case whatever. I mean, ok, fine. Dick more but sure.

or

2. You designed the entire vanguard unit off of the Reiver, and gave the Reiver the Phobos key word after. In which case, WHY. A seriously, in my opinion, crappy looking and pointless unit, that is outperformed and under costed by the rest of the Infantry lineup. What was the idea of making these "new" units off the Reiver.

"Hey Dave, this is Jeff from accounting. We need a new lineup of models to sell."

"Why not use those models everyone uses?"

"Intercessors?"

"No, The Reivers."

"No one uses those. We don't even use those. We made them as a joke remember?"

"PHSSSSS whaaaat? Dude, EVERYONE in accounting uses them."

I don't see the point. At a glance Infiltrators are superior in almost every regard.

I guess hit them with the Warp time Imperial Version, shock grenade, then charge in and double knife it up, 3 attacks, plus some heavy pistol shots, great for bullying?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess hit them with the Warp time Imperial Version, shock grenade, then charge in and double knife it up, 3 attacks, plus some heavy pistol shots, great for bullying?

doubly so if you're hitting say a guard squad or something else similer as they'll likely lose a ton of models from morale failure too

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess hit them with the Warp time Imperial Version, shock grenade, then charge in and double knife it up, 3 attacks, plus some heavy pistol shots, great for bullying?

No charging with that warp time unless you have some version of advance and charge.

Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.

 Marmatag wrote:
Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.

This made me laugh out loud in my office, and I got in trouble. Worth it.

 Marmatag wrote:
Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.

I only know they exist because I built 5 of them with knives cause I already had the carbine version built and painted, and I just wanted to build something...

In the voxcast episode with Jes talking about Primaris. He said something like "when we designed the mkX armour, we figured out all of the ways the plates would be added to the base suit."
so that sounds to me like they have already had the designs for the primaris range since they started w Dark Imperium. I think they didnt want to name the reivers armour when they launched as to not hint at what was to come. so they just drip feed us bits n pieces of the already fully designed range.

I'm glad that they do have a cohesive aesthetic for the range and expect things like(gravis, inceptor, etc) make more sense once it's all out there.

I do really like the Phobos stuff and think that once they're used together on the tabletop, some pretty interesting ways of utilizing reivers will show themselves.

Racerguy180 wrote:
In the voxcast episode with Jes talking about Primaris. He said something like "when we designed the mkX armour, we figured out all of the ways the plates would be added to the base suit."
so that sounds to me like they have already had the designs for the primaris range since they started w Dark Imperium. I think they didnt want to name the reivers armour when they launched as to not hint at what was to come. so they just drip feed us bits n pieces of the already fully designed range.

I'm glad that they do have a cohesive aesthetic for the range and expect things like(gravis, inceptor, etc) make more sense once it's all out there.

I do really like the Phobos stuff and think that once they're used together on the tabletop, some pretty interesting ways of utilizing reivers will show themselves.

They actually talked about this a lot in the white dwarf design articles that came out during the big introduction of Primaris. Like they really took time thinking about how the helmets worked with multiple sections, how the models moved, how the pouches and such would make sense, or having mag attached items. I think they are doing a lot of planning for this line and they are only dripping it out to create anticipation and to of course, stimulate sales. I think it would have been folly to introduce them all right away when other armies were begging for new releases, especially Orks and now Chaos. Additionally from a rules perspective I think they also wanted to see what the first year would impact how the new primaris stuff worked in the wide world (no amount of playtesting can replicate what insane tournament players do)

I think theres definitely a very precise design aesthetic we are barely getting to see the surface of for 40k as a whole. And I like it. Just look at how focused and interesting AOS has gotten. The new lines are totally unique and packed with flavor. 40k just suffers from too many ugly legacy options (hellllo potato faced guardsman and gorilla butt ork!). Theres a bright future here and I hope to see it all unfold.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Well, now that it's confirmed Reivers get the new Vanguard Psycher abilities because they have the Phobos Keyword, does that make them useful again?

By the by, why are we getting these Dev Commentary alterations AFTER the fact, when it was clearly intended from the creation of Reivers that they had Phobos armor? I mean, that leads me to believe one of two things happened:

1. Either you had the entire Vanguard line already established at the time when you created Reivers, and just drip fed us the lineup to make us pay more, in which case whatever. I mean, ok, fine. Dick more but sure.

or

2. You designed the entire vanguard unit off of the Reiver, and gave the Reiver the Phobos key word after. In which case, WHY. A seriously, in my opinion, crappy looking and pointless unit, that is outperformed and under costed by the rest of the Infantry lineup. What was the idea of making these "new" units off the Reiver.

"Hey Dave, this is Jeff from accounting. We need a new lineup of models to sell."

"Why not use those models everyone uses?"

"Intercessors?"

"No, The Reivers."

"No one uses those. We don't even use those. We made them as a joke remember?"

"PHSSSSS whaaaat? Dude, EVERYONE in accounting uses them."

From the way the process has been explained in various podcasts I've listened to the model is designed first then rules are added after the fact and actually built around the model. So the whole primaris range was most likely designed with a style of armor in mind. As more have come out and the rules team has seen the need to buff these units they can look at the model line and decide what to add. All these guys have the same armor type so they decided to give it a specific keyword. So essentially the rules team is going to add/ modify rules (which might include previously released models) as they get more access to the new sculpts

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess hit them with the Warp time Imperial Version, shock grenade, then charge in and double knife it up, 3 attacks, plus some heavy pistol shots, great for bullying?

The only offensive benefit for this power is if you have equipped your Reivers with Bolt Carbines. None of the other weapons work with the power since you have to Advance. You also can't charge unless you have some sort of ability to advance and charge (since you are Marines, you can't).

 Marmatag wrote:
Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.

That's because they're a useless unit.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.

That's because they're a useless unit.

But look cool. So are therefore an auto include in my armies.

Andykp wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.

That's because they're a useless unit.

But look cool. So are therefore an auto include in my armies.

How presumptuous.

I really like the idea of the unit and now with shadowspear, they actually have use for me.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess hit them with the Warp time Imperial Version, shock grenade, then charge in and double knife it up, 3 attacks, plus some heavy pistol shots, great for bullying?

How you managing to charge after you are forced to advance with that move sport?

Sorry to derail the thread but where was it confirmed that Reivers get Phobos keyword?

I loved the interview on Voxcast with Jes Goodwin where he was like 'everyone loved the new Reivers!' and now they're... where? I never see them on the table. They have no power weapon, no punch. They're an expensive harassment unit that doesn't even harass very well with all of the ways that a player can just... deploy their army to deny deep strike.

If they had ANY kind of special weapon, they might be decent. As is, they compete for points with models that just do their job better.

It doesn't matter that they have the Phobos keyword. They still won't be used in favor of things that can actually remove models from the table.

I'm pretty sure Reivers always had "phobos" mkx armor--they just didn't add the keyword because I'm not sure at the time that they knew they were going to use it for anything.

I can't remember where I've seen the phobos thing mentioned in the past but I'mlike 99% sure.

 bullyboy wrote:
Sorry to derail the thread but where was it confirmed that Reivers get Phobos keyword?

The Shadowspear Codex Vanguard Space Marines booklet. I believe there was an article on Warhammer Community that stated they got the Phones keyword as well, not 100% certain on that one.

Racerguy180 wrote:

Andykp wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Going to be 100% honest - i completely forgot Reivers existed.

That's because they're a useless unit.

But look cool. So are therefore an auto include in my armies.

How presumptuous.

I really like the idea of the unit and now with shadowspear, they actually have use for me.

I’ve always found them useful too. I play pure primaris so there isn’t much fills the role they have. And like I said. They look ace so I take at least 5 every time. People seem to think that if certain crowds don’t use them then no one does. I would say they are my favourite unit in primaris. Converting my captain from shadow spear to look like a captain reiver.

I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.

kingheff wrote:
I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.

Grapnels don't work while charging these days, only in the movement phase. Got nerfed a little while back :(

It was like they're one cool little niche, stripped away...

All they need to do is give Reivers “power knives” and they will be in again.

 Stux wrote:

kingheff wrote:
I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.

Grapnels don't work while charging these days, only in the movement phase. Got nerfed a little while back :(

It was like they're one cool little niche, stripped away...

Oh, didn't realise that. Was that in an FAQ?

kingheff wrote:

 Stux wrote:

kingheff wrote:
I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.

Grapnels don't work while charging these days, only in the movement phase. Got nerfed a little while back :(

It was like they're one cool little niche, stripped away...

Oh, didn't realise that. Was that in an FAQ?

Wait, wasn’t that only for flyers?

kingheff wrote:

 Stux wrote:

kingheff wrote:
I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.

Grapnels don't work while charging these days, only in the movement phase. Got nerfed a little while back :(

It was like they're one cool little niche, stripped away...

Oh, didn't realise that. Was that in an FAQ?

It’s in space marine errata.

Whoops. I don’t play them so I haven’t made that
Mistakes.

 Stux wrote:

kingheff wrote:
I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.

Grapnels don't work while charging these days, only in the movement phase. Got nerfed a little while back :(

It was like they're one cool little niche, stripped away...

...because of a different unit getting abused in a soup. Le sigh.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Stux wrote:

kingheff wrote:
I played a unit of five with both the chutes and grapnel last night in a cities of death game. Coming in on turn three to root out a squad of havoc's perched on a ruin, nine inches away but only a three inch charge because of the grapnel.
Reivers are situational but nothing else in the marine arsenal can do what they do.

Grapnels don't work while charging these days, only in the movement phase. Got nerfed a little while back :(

It was like they're one cool little niche, stripped away...

...because of a different unit getting abused in a soup. Le sigh.

Weirdly though, it wasn't directly that FAQ that affected Reivers, as Reivers don't have fly. It came in a slightly later FAQ, specifically targeting Reivers.

I tend to give GW the benefit of the doubt on a lot of things, but this was a real head scratched for me!