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2019/07/07 20:50:40
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Epic Will Refund Shenmue 3 Backers Who Reject Epic Store Exclusivity
I mean, that's the big thing isn't it - are all these publishers/developers really going to have the audacity to drop these games on Steam 6-18 months after the Epic Store and demand full price for them? Withold them from sales or restrict the discount until they've been on Steam for the normal "after launch" period despite that not being the PC platform launch? What happens when Epic inevitably go back on their word and start doing proper sales with a functional shopping cart etc, will the game be discounted on Epic but arbitrarily kept at regular price on Steam?
Frankly if they launch on Steam and the price isn't already what it would be on Steam if it had been there for 6-18 months, I'll just be hoisting the Jolly Roger and the lot of them can bog off.
Whilest i generally don't condone this, or G2A for that matter, i can understand it as a reaction against exclusives. Especially if they were kickstarter backed and promised to be on Steam.
In fact, G2A sounds especially enticing for such indy games.
2019/07/27 09:47:25
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Epic Will Refund Shenmue 3 Backers Who Reject Epic Store Exclusivity
I mean, that's the big thing isn't it - are all these publishers/developers really going to have the audacity to drop these games on Steam 6-18 months after the Epic Store and demand full price for them? Withold them from sales or restrict the discount until they've been on Steam for the normal "after launch" period despite that not being the PC platform launch? What happens when Epic inevitably go back on their word and start doing proper sales with a functional shopping cart etc, will the game be discounted on Epic but arbitrarily kept at regular price on Steam?
Frankly if they launch on Steam and the price isn't already what it would be on Steam if it had been there for 6-18 months, I'll just be hoisting the Jolly Roger and the lot of them can bog off.
Whilest i generally don't condone this, or G2A for that matter, i can understand it as a reaction against exclusives. Especially if they were kickstarter backed and promised to be on Steam.
In fact, G2A sounds especially enticing for such indy games.
Not Online!!! wrote: In fact, G2A sounds especially enticing for such indy games.
No. Not G2A. Not ever. They are very bad for indy games. Very, very bad.
I think his point (which I disagree with even though I requested a refund from PGI) is to hurt the developer as punishment. And while I disagree, I can see the reason why people are that angry with PGI.
For MW5 specifically it's just like this: PGI is getting a good deal from Epic (better % per sale, and an additional payment for the Exclusivity deal), and us customers will have to wait another year or deal with that gakky store. But if you don't want to use Epic, you can get a full refund no questions asked from PGI, and you get to keep all of the MWO content you got by preordering (which was a LOT of stuff for me since I went with the Ultimate edition).
So, in terms of that deal, I'm just disappointed that they decided that higher profits are more important than customer loyality (They literally said they could deal with all preorders being refunded and they'd still went with Epic), and that's that.
What is really making me lose my trust in PGI entirely is that they knew they were going Epic exclusive in April, and they had planned to tell us at the end of August. It being announced in July now is simply due to their website team making a mistake and publishing updated FAQs a month early - they even went with the "oh, no no, nothing changes, it's just a simply FAQ update" at first - blatantly lying. They could have told us about the deal during the preorder period, and chose not to.
Exactly, also you might disagree, but pulling a bait and switch with kickstarter money is imo very much a move of a group of individuals which have shown their integrity to be lacking to the point that you can not expect good faith buisness from them. Ergo these are groups and "companies" (better word would be scam artists and backbonless morons with a basic lack if integrity and legitimacy) that we as consumer are better off without.
2019/07/28 09:34:12
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Epic Will Refund Shenmue 3 Backers Who Reject Epic Store Exclusivity
Not Online!!! wrote: Exactly, also you might disagree, but pulling a bait and switch with kickstarter money is imo very much a move of a group of individuals which have shown their integrity to be lacking to the point that you can not expect good faith buisness from them. Ergo these are groups and "companies" (better word would be scam artists and backbonless morons with a basic lack if integrity and legitimacy) that we as consumer are better off without.
MW5 wasn't on kickstarter, and as I said - I no longer trust PGI. As a consequence I'm no longer supporting them through MWO purchases, and I'll pick up MW5 only if it becomes available outside of EGS AND is actually a good game, and even then only if the game is no longer full price.
The issue with G2A is that while you hurt the dev (which I can understand) you're also supporting G2A by doing so, and that - for me - isn't worth it.
I was more talking into regards to certain, others.
And later? The best thing that can happen is that Epic and G2A go at each others throat.
One less tumor on the industry.
2019/08/19 17:32:32
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
tl;dr Game Dev turns down Epic Exclusivity bribe, EGS refuses to let him sell on EGS if he also sells on Steam, despite Tim Sweeney always talking about how multiple storefronts are good.
Jim also covered it today.
Hillarious situation really.
but Sweeny is sweeny. and if you belive in determination through name, atleast for german speakers, he is excactly how he behaves.
2019/08/20 14:09:05
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
Overread wrote: Epic's view is clearly that if they can starve the market they will control the market. For them it will work so long as they can pump money into developers and throw cash at them to become exclusive. They are VERY aggressive at growing their market share.
The sad thing is that they aren't actually offering a better service, nor even a comparable one. In fact from both a publisher/developer and consumer standpoint their service is worse than Steam's. They also appear to resolve most of their matters with a strong arm and throwing money at it; so they don't even sound nice to deal with as a company.
Na, it's tried and true robber Barons tactic.
And imo grounds for anti Kartell laws to kick in.
But that would require actual change in the circumstancial landscape of politics and big buisness and considering we allow exorbitant prices on life saving medication nothing will change in a comparativly unimportant market.
2019/08/20 18:30:05
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
Overread wrote: Oh the strongarming makes sense as does poaching as many popular titles to get people onto their service. The main issue that I don't get is why they don't use some of their funds to improve their service. Right now I kind of get the feeling developers don't want to be on Epic Store for any reason other than the golden handshake; whilst gamers have no reason to use it beyond them getting exclusives. It's odd that there dosn't seem to be any more toward ingratiating themselves to either group in a big way. It's just odd.
Because they don't need to.
That's the issue.
2019/08/20 19:46:06
Subject: Re:Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
Eumerin wrote: If they were in Steam's position, then strong arm tactics would make sense. But they're not. They don't have the market dominance. So Epic telling developers that they'll only sell games that are Epic exclusive just seems like shooting themselves in the foot.
If I were a developer that had been told by Epic that they wouldn't carry my product because I wasn't Epic exclusive, I'd just shrug my shoulders and move on. The vast bulk of my customers are probably on Steam, so it's not like I'd be losing much (if any) money. And I'd certainly get more from Steam sales than from Epic sales.
Plus, Epic's status as the place to go for games relies on all of the hot games going exclusively to Epic. And since what is quite possibly the hottest game of 2020 is from CDPR (who operate their own portal, AND sell on Steam), that isn't going to happen.
But epic has market dominance.
They have a monopoly on select few high profile titles.
And they have the cash from Fortnight.
And the unreal engine.
2019/08/20 19:49:43
Subject: Re:Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
It just seems short-sighted to me, especially when the resolutions are surely a financial drop in the ocean of money that Epic is rolling out for exclusive titles and such.
The goal is to force steam into investing ressources in a fight it can't atm win.
Weakening them longterm by forcing their margin down.
It's not about making steam better for developpers, it's about taking over steams spot in the PC market. And this is also preciscely why Steam wont react. And you also can bet your backside that Epic would stop their exclusivity deals even if steam would go down.
And for that goal to accomplish they don't need to implement user friendly shop.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrookM wrote: If they were truly evil, they'd say that you could only use their engine if you made your game Epic exclusive.
Why do that.
Money is the endgoal. Oh you not selling on epic store, you pay 5% more licensce fee. And yes that is allready the case.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/20 19:50:29
2019/08/21 09:09:17
Subject: Re:Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
And about the only thing epic has going for it from a custommer perspective.
However also from a custommer perspective, they are owned by tencent. I don't like that company, i won't go there. (not all are as paranoid as me though )
2019/08/21 16:17:20
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Epic Will Refund Shenmue 3 Backers Who Reject Epic Store Exclusivity
You really shouldn't. G2A is basically a money laundering site for identity thieves.
I've looked into it a lot over the years, and I really think some of the claims against them are over-exaggerated. They definitely have an issue with things like stolen keys, however, they've taken quite a few steps to improve their ability to filter out and punish accounts attempting to sell stolen materials. They've even started trying to work with Developers to create incentives and help them grow as well and have even begun to set up a key blocking tool so that developers can choose to allow or disallow their games to appear on the platform. They've even offered to pay independent developers a significant amount of money for lost charge-back issues.
I think they're quite ernest in their willingness to hear complaints and take action to help improve their own business and the hobby itself. I typically use them for games that do not appear on Steam as I refuse to break up my library, so for me it is more about sticking it to EA/ActiBlizz than anything else.
Of which G2A has yet actually to do anything.
The tool for exemple was claimed to be massively expensive (which it isn't to make but G2A if full of gak)
And G2A recently got challanged by the makers of Factzorio to pay up 300'000 $ which they haven't yet procurred.
G2A is anything but reliable or ernest, or even honest.
2019/08/21 19:05:33
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Epic Will Refund Shenmue 3 Backers Who Reject Epic Store Exclusivity
You really shouldn't. G2A is basically a money laundering site for identity thieves.
I've looked into it a lot over the years, and I really think some of the claims against them are over-exaggerated. They definitely have an issue with things like stolen keys, however, they've taken quite a few steps to improve their ability to filter out and punish accounts attempting to sell stolen materials. They've even started trying to work with Developers to create incentives and help them grow as well and have even begun to set up a key blocking tool so that developers can choose to allow or disallow their games to appear on the platform. They've even offered to pay independent developers a significant amount of money for lost charge-back issues.
I think they're quite ernest in their willingness to hear complaints and take action to help improve their own business and the hobby itself. I typically use them for games that do not appear on Steam as I refuse to break up my library, so for me it is more about sticking it to EA/ActiBlizz than anything else.
Of which G2A has yet actually to do anything.
The tool for exemple was claimed to be massively expensive (which it isn't to make but G2A if full of gak)
And G2A recently got challanged by the makers of Factorio to pay up 300'000 $ which they haven't yet procurred.
G2A is anything but reliable or ernest, or even honest.
For things like these, it takes time. You don't just snap your fingers and pay Factzorio 300 grand.
People are far to quick to jump on the hate bandwagon these days....
I mean it's only been 3 months and the only response from G2A was to announce they weren't going to make the tool. I'm certain they are upright, honest and totally meaning to get around to those refunds by 3050.
Btw, for such a huge ass Marketplace, don't you find the lack of available funds to run a bit critical low if that would be the case Togusa?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/21 19:05:45
2019/08/21 22:09:41
Subject: Re:Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
I mean that a market place off that size that can't throw up that ammount of money easily, even though knowingly operating in a legaly questionable realm, is strange.
Especially compared to their boast of 10x replacement, don't you think?
2019/08/22 07:33:22
Subject: Re:Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
I mean that a market place off that size that can't throw up that ammount of money easily, even though knowingly operating in a legaly questionable realm, is strange.
Especially compared to their boast of 10x replacement, don't you think?
I really don't. I am not understanding what you mean.
Are you saying that because a payment hasn't yet been made (assuming it will be eventually) that this means they don't have as much money as they claim to?
No i am saying that they have a missmanagement of security liquidity. Which is gak buissness planning.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Melissia wrote: Their offer of 10 times the money lost is also a smokescreen because it's not legally enforceable. Contracts require two-way consideration; gifts are not contracts, and the promise to give a gift is not something you can be compelled to fulfill. It is nothing more than a gimmick to save face, because by the time reports of them not fulfilling the promise get on the news, they expect the controversy to be over and therefor they'll get away with it.
Ayy it is a smoke screen, that doesn't change that someone now want's to see if it is Actuallly a smokescreen and badmouth them even harder or get his "due"share now doesn't it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/22 07:34:32
2019/08/23 11:13:47
Subject: Re:Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
Na, it's tried and true robber Barons tactic.
And imo grounds for anti Kartell laws to kick in.
But that would require actual change in the circumstancial landscape of politics and big buisness and considering we allow exorbitant prices on life saving medication nothing will change in a comparativly unimportant market.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/23 11:15:29
2019/08/23 16:01:12
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
Melissia wrote: Yep, saw that earlier. It's clear that Epic has no interest in "bettering the market", and that was all just marketing lies.
"We don't have the bandwidth to sell this small indie game developed by a single person."
-- Producer behind Fortnite, the most successful game in the world, lying their asses off because they're liars.
Considering that game is also just online available, one would expect them to have atleast basic ideas about online infrastructure.
2019/08/27 22:20:36
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
Melissia wrote: Yeah, the only thing really exclusive on Steam right now, IIRC, is the "console" and controller they themselves created to work with Steam. And even that is probably not. If a dev who has released on Steam wants to release on GoG or somewhere else, Valve never objects to it.
Don't get me wrong. I could gak all over Valve for their ineptitude in trying to solve problems due to their trying to focus on algorithms to solve them instead of using any sort of sense. They're not saints or angels by any means. But at least when you talk about how bad Valve is, talk about things that are actually true.
Steam also takes criticism of their store somewhat to heart.
Mind you curation is Still utter Gak, but tools and structure are there. And their algorithms are just wierd.
I also never had issue with custommer Service of steam.
That's more then what i can say about EA and origin or Blizzard.
2019/08/28 07:08:34
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
LordofHats wrote: EA Origin's customer service hung up on me twice. Blizzard didn't hang up on me, but they also didn't much help with my problem. I had to solve it myself.
I've never needed to contact Steam's customer service for any reason. And that's the best kind of customer service there is in my book
Origin is absolute gak, especially when you want help.
2019/08/29 11:25:56
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
Melissia wrote: Don't get me wrong. I could gak all over Valve for their ineptitude in trying to solve problems due to their trying to focus on algorithms to solve them instead of using any sort of sense. They're not saints or angels by any means. But at least when you talk about how bad Valve is, talk about things that are actually true.
Their faults come from a certain level of incompetence alongside a certain level of just not giving a gak. They're lazy.
Epic is devious and underhanded. That makes them far worse.
No wonder borderlands CEO likes them
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/29 11:26:49
2019/09/09 12:04:58
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
Assuming this is correect and not bs-- Valve/Steam changes its distribution agreement. tl;dr: Valve/Steam will likely say breach of contract if a company hypes a game as to be released on Steam, and then signs an exclusivity agreement with epic afterwards.
Perhaps the threat of a lawsuit will get dev teams to stop being shady about this stuff.
Well so long they still allow GoG and other platforms that seems ok, i guess.
2019/09/09 21:08:34
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
Voss wrote: It seems a legit approach to me, as several of the crowdfunded games still advertise steam keys, since the crowding funding pages are locked after the campaign is over. Similarly the Outer Worlds trailer had the Steam logo on it in several places, and the exclusivity deal would have been in process at the time.
The epic exclusives wouldn't be nearly so noxious if they didn't involve a bait and switch
Indeed.
It would also mark the Epic deal takers propperly for what they are, oppurtunistic weasels not worthy or money.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw it seems that Boderlands has screwed with the Ratings?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/09/10 07:23:46
2019/09/11 20:03:02
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Again, and I don't want to sound silly, but a twitter post about a company that is basically the bottom of the barrel as far as games journalism goes getting denied a copy of their game isn't proof. Especially since PC gamer got a copy and their review was "Meh".
Not defending 2k or Epic or Gearbox. But they have been getting a lot of flack for stuff that may not have been really that bad. It's the dogpile mentality of American internet culture I'm sorry to say.
PC gamer was offended by the jokes so they gave it a lower rating. If GB is near the bottom, PC Gamer is the bottom. Have we all forgotten the Dorito Pope incident?
What? Dorito Pope incident?!
2019/09/13 16:17:12
Subject: Everything Epic™ - latest: Mech Warrior 5 is now also Epic exclusive
