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As the thread title suggests, is it possible to break free from a Chaos Gods rule? For example, a Space Marine chapter is killed, re-animated, and when that god(s) is/are weakest, they can wrestle control from said god(s) and have free-will?

nope. generally once chaos has their hooks in you, there's no escape

kinda one and done type thing when you pledge your eternal soul to chaos.

For a chaos marine to 'repent' and break free after accepting a god's mark....yes. It's going to be hard, and it will cost you physically and spiritually but it's possible and we've seen it happen. Sergeant Castus of the Ultramarines was an example.

But there are limits. Once you've become a daemon prince, you are fundamentally an extension of that god - at that point it's far too late for second thoughts.

If you're talking dead and reanimated marines, the marines in questions are also probably far too gone.

Depends on how much of your soul sold to chaos no?
I'd imagine a sorcerer, chosen or other genereally more higher ups will not be able to.
Same with cultists, the higher in the food chain the more "blessed" you are the more likely you allready are in to deep.

If one faithful to the God-Emperor can turn heretic and traitor, I can't see why one loyal to the Dark Gods can't also turn.

 Darian Aarush wrote:
If one faithful to the God-Emperor can turn heretic and traitor, I can't see why one loyal to the Dark Gods can't also turn.

One issue is that Chaos Gods don't just take your worship, they gift you gifts. Corrupting the body, mind and soul of the person. The more you are in their thrall the more they corrupt and change, twist and turn. Even if part of the person wants out the other parts are now fully looked on the Chaos God. At best they might be able to escape the clutches of one god and become embraced by another of the Chaos Gods; however escaping fully is nearly impossible. Even if you could get the corrupted parts of the body removed, the soul and mind would already be tainted.

Release might be possible but I'd wager its right up there in the "one in a galaxy chance" and "you need plot armour on top of that chance."


For a chapter of marines killed and reanimated its near impossible. They aren't even the same bodies let alone minds or souls as they were when corrupted to Chaos.

I can recall a sorcerer “repenting” and becoming a double agent, going back to Huron Blackheart.

Turned out *real bad* for the sorcerer, of course. Grim Darkness and all that, but there is precedent for people to resist the pull of chaos.

I’d say it depends on the resurrection method. 1000 Sons style? No. They’re animated shells and nothing more. Necron style? Well now we’re seeing the degrees, right? Basic Warrior? Basically no. High Ranking Lord? High probability of yes.

How much of the resurrected Marines’ mind is left? Do they remember their duty to the Imperium? Marines are known for their super-human dedication. If they possess free will I’d say there’s a good chance they could resist the pull. It would all be up to the author of the tale. Do they create dramatic tension by having the enslaved act against their wishes, but then when forced to attack their former brothers their will becomes powerful enough to break free of the chains? We are in the GrimDark, so maybe not... up to the author.

Yeah, I think this is really two separate issues.

For all of the situations where dead marines are being "resurrected" and reanimated, that's just fancy zombies.

As far as someone pledging to Chaos and then recanting, there are a bunch of issues with that:
1. The Imperium doesn't believe in second chances. Your penance is to go on this suicide quest.
2. Chaos has a "No returns; No Refunds" policy.

If someone embraces Chaos and then goes, "I feel bad about all of the people that I killed," that's not guilt over turning to Chaos, that's guilt over becoming a homicidal maniac. Same deal if they betrayed or killed their friends after.

TLDR: Chaos doesn't kill people.* People kill people.

[*] Okay, sure. Daemons and other physical embodiments of Chaos also kill people. That's different.

Does dying count?

The soul drinkers we're unknowingly corrupted by chaos but rebelled against it to serve the Imperium. They all ended up dead.

pm713 wrote:
Does dying count?

Not really, especially not if you sold your soul to a daemon /god for power.
It's a bit like feudal fellowship except forever.

Etherals can bring Tau back from choas. Somehow. There was a case of a Tau going choas and coming back after just talking to a Etheral.

chimera0205 wrote:
Etherals can bring Tau back from choas. Somehow. There was a case of a Tau going choas and coming back after just talking to a Etheral.

If that doesn't make you suspicious of the Etherals, you're not paying attention.

I don't know about breaking free, but I'd love to see an Alpha Legion DP secretly playing both sides.

 solkan wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:
Etherals can bring Tau back from choas. Somehow. There was a case of a Tau going choas and coming back after just talking to a Etheral.

If that doesn't make you suspicious of the Etherals, you're not paying attention.

nefarious little fishes, it's the ones who say they're your friend that are the worst.

The whole plot of Daemon World basically revolves around a several thousand year old chaos champion giving the gods the bird and destroying a corrupted maiden world that they had been coveting and fighting over for eons. He got tired of all the meaninglessness that ultimately was serving chaos. It wasn’t freedom it was slavery of a different kind for him.

Also Guants Ghosts has a traitor General that flips back to the imperium as an informant. We find out later that he still retains his gifts despite becoming essentially a conscientious objector and an atheist of sorts.

 solkan wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:
Etherals can bring Tau back from choas. Somehow. There was a case of a Tau going choas and coming back after just talking to a Etheral.

If that doesn't make you suspicious of the Etherals, you're not paying attention.

Anyone who can free someone from choas is a ok in my books. Tau>>>>>>>>>>>>>Choas

Darian Aarush wrote:If one faithful to the God-Emperor can turn heretic and traitor, I can't see why one loyal to the Dark Gods can't also turn.

Because the Chaos Gods are actual Gods, not some mostly-dead human charlatan.

Being loyal to the dead bloke is like being vegan, it's mostly a matter of self-identification. There are no actual consequences to me if I break vegan and eat cheese, aside from the scorn of my peers. Same for loyalists, except their peers would try to kill them instead of making snarky posts on FB about them.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

Darian Aarush wrote:If one faithful to the God-Emperor can turn heretic and traitor, I can't see why one loyal to the Dark Gods can't also turn.

Because the Chaos Gods are actual Gods, not some mostly-dead human charlatan.

Being loyal to the dead bloke is like being vegan, it's mostly a matter of self-identification. There are no actual consequences to me if I break vegan and eat cheese, aside from the scorn of my peers. Same for loyalists, except their peers would try to kill them instead of making snarky posts on FB about them.

What actually makes something a god? Cause id reckon the Emperor is on par with several of the true gods in the 40k verse. Definitely stronger then any indivual Eldar God and probably on par with any indivual Choas god.

The Sensei from the original Realms of Chaos books could get a Gift of the Star Child that allowed them a chance to redeem Chaos Champions they defeated in close combat. I don't have those books handy at the moment but IIRC they could remove Chaos gifts and mutations from these former Chaos followers, though that doesn't mean they necessarily got a replacement. A tentacle arm removed for example would leave them missing an arm.

Iracundus wrote:
The Sensei from the original Realms of Chaos books could get a Gift of the Star Child that allowed them a chance to redeem Chaos Champions they defeated in close combat. I don't have those books handy at the moment but IIRC they could remove Chaos gifts and mutations from these former Chaos followers, though that doesn't mean they necessarily got a replacement. A tentacle arm removed for example would leave them missing an arm.

Didnt the Inquistion kill them all or something?

chimera0205 wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
The Sensei from the original Realms of Chaos books could get a Gift of the Star Child that allowed them a chance to redeem Chaos Champions they defeated in close combat. I don't have those books handy at the moment but IIRC they could remove Chaos gifts and mutations from these former Chaos followers, though that doesn't mean they necessarily got a replacement. A tentacle arm removed for example would leave them missing an arm.

Didnt the Inquistion kill them all or something?

No

chimera0205 wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:

Darian Aarush wrote:If one faithful to the God-Emperor can turn heretic and traitor, I can't see why one loyal to the Dark Gods can't also turn.

Because the Chaos Gods are actual Gods, not some mostly-dead human charlatan.

Being loyal to the dead bloke is like being vegan, it's mostly a matter of self-identification. There are no actual consequences to me if I break vegan and eat cheese, aside from the scorn of my peers. Same for loyalists, except their peers would try to kill them instead of making snarky posts on FB about them.

What actually makes something a god? Cause id reckon the Emperor is on par with several of the true gods in the 40k verse. Definitely stronger then any indivual Eldar God and probably on par with any indivual Choas god.

There is nothing in the lore to suggest that Deady McDeadface has powers anywhere near comparable to the Chaos Gods, the Eldar Gods or the Ork Gods. At a bare minimum, a God has to have the ability to significantly and materially affect remote environs. Anything else is just a Psyker.

Which is what Deady McDeadface is; just a Psyker. One who explicitly rejected the notion of being a God, FYI.

 Excommunicatus wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:

Darian Aarush wrote:If one faithful to the God-Emperor can turn heretic and traitor, I can't see why one loyal to the Dark Gods can't also turn.

Because the Chaos Gods are actual Gods, not some mostly-dead human charlatan.

Being loyal to the dead bloke is like being vegan, it's mostly a matter of self-identification. There are no actual consequences to me if I break vegan and eat cheese, aside from the scorn of my peers. Same for loyalists, except their peers would try to kill them instead of making snarky posts on FB about them.

What actually makes something a god? Cause id reckon the Emperor is on par with several of the true gods in the 40k verse. Definitely stronger then any indivual Eldar God and probably on par with any indivual Choas god.

There is nothing in the lore to suggest that Deady McDeadface has powers anywhere near comparable to the Chaos Gods, the Eldar Gods or the Ork Gods. At a bare minimum, a God has to have the ability to significantly and materially affect remote environs. Anything else is just a Psyker.

Which is what Deady McDeadface is; just a Psyker. One who explicitly rejected the notion of being a God, FYI.

That seems wrong. If he isn't comparable then why isn't he properly dead? To justify his existence he has to be of comparable enough power to make killing him a significant problem for Chaos.

Saying you're not a god doesn't mean that you aren't one, he's got billions of worshippers, godly power and other gods are scared of him.

pm713 wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:

chimera0205 wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:

Darian Aarush wrote:If one faithful to the God-Emperor can turn heretic and traitor, I can't see why one loyal to the Dark Gods can't also turn.

Because the Chaos Gods are actual Gods, not some mostly-dead human charlatan.

Being loyal to the dead bloke is like being vegan, it's mostly a matter of self-identification. There are no actual consequences to me if I break vegan and eat cheese, aside from the scorn of my peers. Same for loyalists, except their peers would try to kill them instead of making snarky posts on FB about them.

What actually makes something a god? Cause id reckon the Emperor is on par with several of the true gods in the 40k verse. Definitely stronger then any indivual Eldar God and probably on par with any indivual Choas god.

There is nothing in the lore to suggest that Deady McDeadface has powers anywhere near comparable to the Chaos Gods, the Eldar Gods or the Ork Gods. At a bare minimum, a God has to have the ability to significantly and materially affect remote environs. Anything else is just a Psyker.

Which is what Deady McDeadface is; just a Psyker. One who explicitly rejected the notion of being a God, FYI.

That seems wrong. If he isn't comparable then why isn't he properly dead? To justify his existence he has to be of comparable enough power to make killing him a significant problem for Chaos.

Saying you're not a god doesn't mean that you aren't one, he's got billions of worshippers, godly power and other gods are scared of him.

So, I agree that to justify his existence he has to be of comparable power. GW tell us he is of comparable power. My point is that it is never demonstrated that he is of comparable power. And everything we know about Deady is Imperial propaganda. All of it.

Also I agree that saying you're not a God isn't determinative. It is persuasive, though. SImilarly to the above, we are told that other Gods are scared of him, but it is never demonstrated.

Existence precedes essence and the Emperor's greatness exists only in stories told by his followers.

Yeah, the Chaos gods work differently and that's why they are so dangerous. Even just seeing a symbol of the gods may trouble a man in the novels, so imagine selling your immortal soul to one...
To my mind, it's like radiation: once you are irritated, you are fethed up. It can be slow and unseen, or strong and immediate.
But coming back from that ? Hmmmm....
A moment of doubt brings an eternity of darkness !

It has been suggested that the abilities SoB have through their faith or other minor miracles other Imperials experience is the Emperor acting subtly to influence events, rather than investing power into a champion. For example, in the Black Library novel Shadow Point the main character is saved by a seriously wounded Commissar firing his weapon and distracting the enemy. However afterwards, the other Imperials discount the main character's recall of events as they said they found the Commissar's body and that by his wounds, he would have been dead already at that critical moment. In other words, it is implied the Emperor reanimated the Comissar or kept him from dying until he had accomplished that plot changing action of distracting the enemy.

Of course that subtlety seems to be out the window now with St. Celestine basically acting like a daemon prince of the Emperor.

In one of the new alpha legion books there is a slaanesh cultist who tries to repent to the emperor, (I won't spoil for any potential readers) so I guess if your will was strong enough you could try.

I'm advised that there is no 'try'.

Do or do not.