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Hey all, okay so I'm kind of getting into the lore of 40k and I was curious about how the SoB powers work. I'm pretty sure I read that the Emperor said that he didn't want to be seen as a god, and I assume he's not actually one now right? So, where do the SoB and their Saints get their holy powers from? From the warp too or what? I have no idea hahaha, sorry I'm still getting into the lore. Anyways thanks guys ♥

According to Psychic Awakening: Pariah, they're not warp-based. So they're just... magic..?

Somebody should have told that to Celestine on Cadia...

So basically they just have them.. just cause? xD I mean I don't hate it, but thought it came from somewhere

The sisters would burn you at the methaphorical stake to cast such doubt at the power of the Holy Emperor! (A stake would take to long, hence the mataphore. They would just burn you then and there.)

Depends on the angle of the lore.

I mean, magic exists in 40K, over and beyond psychic powers. Sorcery's a Thing, after all.

For the Sisters, prayer to the Emperor grants them access to abilities.

"How does that work?"

Well, it goes back into some older lore which lays out that, yeah, the Emperor is, for all intents and purposes, the 6th Chaos God, but being held in his mortal body (by the three cells that are still alive), he can't fully ascend. He gets fed massive power from the thousands of psychers a day that are ritually sacrificed to him, with MOST of that going to keep the Astronomicon running but there's enough left over that some people, like the Sisters, can tap into it for "miracles".

Of course, then there's the whole Star Child thing to take into account, the fifth Chaos God (I didn't miscount above!) who rarely gets press these days, and a lot of old lore nuggets which may, or may not, be canon anymore, they just haven't been talked about for years or, in some cases, decades.

TL;DR version: They pray for miracles and the magic happens.

They think their powers will work, so their powers work.

Sisters are actually female orks. Who knew?

honestly, given that the warp is basically a reflection of sentient consciousness, ALL of the chaos gods run on the same lines as the orks. people power them (knowingly by worship, or unknowingly via emotions).


On topic, I would be surprised if none of the "Miracle" powers were not, in fact, some form of psychic manifestation. Some might have some other explanation (i was under the impression that Sorcery was just a term for a style of pyske, though, not a separate concept)

Haha looks like I have a lot more to read, I have no idea where the emperor even came from, all I know is he was some powerful guy xD (obviously more than that haha)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:
The sisters would burn you at the methaphorical stake to cast such doubt at the power of the Holy Emperor! (A stake would take to long, hence the mataphore. They would just burn you then and there.)

Hahaha I was actually going to mention something about me posting heresy, but the judgement of the imperium doesn’t apply to Aeldari like me! Mwahaha

they come from the warp, the psychic awaking thing is just a mistake from the writers who do not always understand the universe they are writing about.

 Luunar wrote:
Hahaha I was actually going to mention something about me posting heresy, but the judgement of the imperium doesn’t apply to Aeldari like me! Mwahaha

*ahem* The mon-keigh might not have much to say about your lack of discipline, but your elders sure do. The seer council summons you for reprimand.

My interpretation was always that the Sisters' powers were warp-linked, if not exactly psychic - and that sorcery, too, was simply another way of using the warp. It sounds like the Pariah lore might change this, but I'm not seeing how it could exactly, since we know full damn well the Emperor uses the warp for his powers too...

 Formosa wrote:
they come from the warp, the psychic awaking thing is just a mistake from the writers who do not always understand the universe they are writing about.

That was my initial reaction, but on reflection I'm not so sure. This is a canon studio book we're talking about, it's not like it's one of the more wayward Black Library authors taking liberties...

They're warp based like pretty much all the supernatural powers in the 40K universe.

However their faith based powers maybe can be contrasted vs a psyker's powers in the same way D&D makes a distinction between divine magic and arcane magic. Divine magic is granted magic by an entity in response to worship and prayer, while arcane magic is magic accessed through one's own knowledge and abilities. The prayers of the SoB are answered by the Emperor (or at least an entity that listens to their prayers, whether that is the original Emperor or a warp entity formed from the beliefs of humanity that answers to that title). Maybe warp power that is pushed through from the other side by a god scale entity is less likely to be dampened than an individual psyker attempting to access the warp from realspace.

As for how to explain Celestine's dampening on Cadia when the pylon network was activated? Maybe the pylons were being pushed beyond their normal baseline operating parameters to an unsustainable overdrive level. They after all managed to shrink the Eye of Terror slightly before the pylons started shattering and the whole network fell apart from the rebound of the Eye.

The Necron structures of the Pariah Nexus may just be running at the long term sustainable level, explaining why divinely based abilities are not dampened. Also maybe the Necrons don't fully understand the warp so their attempts to shield against it are imperfect.

Iracundus wrote:
As for how to explain Celestine's dampening on Cadia when the pylon network was activated? Maybe the pylons were being pushed beyond their normal baseline operating parameters to an unsustainable overdrive level. They after all managed to shrink the Eye of Terror slightly before the pylons started shattering and the whole network fell apart from the rebound of the Eye.

It could make sense if the distiction is make between 'psykers manipulating warp energy' and 'warp entities manipulating realspace' - with the pylons built to stop the latter indirectly as part of their function of closing the eye.

In that sense the sisters miracles function in the same way as Kharn the Betrayers immortality - he's not a psyker, he isn't manipulation the warp, instead a being in the warp is reaching down and standing him back up.

Psychic powers in reverse effectively.

They're Orks.

They believe the Emperor will help them and it is so.

Ohhhhhh, nooooo, wait you guys! I just figured it out! Those Sisters are always singing hymns and reciting chants, right...?

...they're all BARDS.

I haven’t read psychic awakening- pariah, I’m surprised to hear that SOB miracles aren’t stopped like psychic powers. I’ve always thought that the “miracles” are basically Chaos Marks but for worshipping the emperor rather than Nurgle etc.

Does the parish thing stop chaos marks? Or is it just psychic powers? Does it stop thousand sons dust marines from functioning? And do Ork machines stop working completely?

 Luunar wrote:
Hey all, okay so I'm kind of getting into the lore of 40k and I was curious about how the SoB powers work. I'm pretty sure I read that the Emperor said that he didn't want to be seen as a god, and I assume he's not actually one now right? So, where do the SoB and their Saints get their holy powers from? From the warp too or what? I have no idea hahaha, sorry I'm still getting into the lore. Anyways thanks guys ♥

It used to be a gray area where maybe it was just their faith pushing them to outdo themselves, to keep fighting even when other soldiers would have given up to their injuries, etc, but maybe it was really the Emperor helping them, or what that just what they believed? You know, nothing overt and flashy, just a little intriguing. And you could use whichever interpretation you liked best.
Now it's straight up magic and I hate it.
Frankly, imagine the 9th edition trailer, but the Sister lose her arm entire and just decide "Feth it, I'll just keep fighting until I pass out", and she fall down as soon as the last enemy is beaten? Would be much more betterer awesomer good sauce, right?

Aash wrote:
I haven’t read psychic awakening- pariah, I’m surprised to hear that SOB miracles aren’t stopped like psychic powers. I’ve always thought that the “miracles” are basically Chaos Marks but for worshipping the emperor rather than Nurgle etc.

Does the parish thing stop chaos marks? Or is it just psychic powers? Does it stop thousand sons dust marines from functioning? And do Ork machines stop working completely?

The 'Pariah Nexus' thing is weird. The Indomitus novel (and some follow up material) is very clear that faith actually helps.... in a very strange way. Not necessarily faith in an entity, but the act of having faith itself. So commissars, chaplains, priests and even Space Marines (so basically 'faith in purpose') are affected less, and that somehow bleeds over to the normal people around them. Its very weird and wishy-washy, and basically validates the blind ignorance of the Imperium without touching of the idea of actual belief in 'higher (or lower) powers' of any sort.

Naturally, this would also be true of Sisters' miracles, which I guess operate contrary to the laws of reality without being psychic or being derived from the Emperor in any real sense. 'It just works.' A wizard did it, but there is no wizard.

my personal take:

Most humans associate psychic powers with the warp and most warp powers humans encounter will be tainted by chaos. In the vast majority of cases warp power will have at least a hint of chaos influence in it because the chaos gods are always trying to corrupt psykers.

The SOBs power is based on pure faith, not bloodlust, passion, corruption. They channel warp power but not thru the chaos gods, their doorway to the warp is unshakable absolute faith.

So when they pull pure faith based warp power into the universe most people familir with regular chaos tainted warp power may honestly not recognize it as warp power and believe it is something else.

Anger, lust, personal ambition, despair can all open doors to the warp, and there's a chaos power waiting at each one to corrupt the most pure of individuals.

Faith can open a door to the warp too, and faith in something beyond one's self, faith in doing the right thing with no personal ambition or desire for reward is an absolute anathema to toe chaos gods, all of whom are based on personal desires and ambitions.

That's what i believe SoB miracles are based on and why so many people don't believe it's warp based.

 Matt Swain wrote:
That's what i believe SoB miracles are based on and why so many people don't believe it's warp based.

Historically though they have never had any of the traits of psychic powers - sisters and the witch hunters they were/are aligned with carry around null rods, psy-trackers, psyocculum targeting scopes, stakes that burn psykers on contact, incense that burns psykers on contact, and so on.

Voss wrote:

Aash wrote:
I haven’t read psychic awakening- pariah, I’m surprised to hear that SOB miracles aren’t stopped like psychic powers. I’ve always thought that the “miracles” are basically Chaos Marks but for worshipping the emperor rather than Nurgle etc.

Does the parish thing stop chaos marks? Or is it just psychic powers? Does it stop thousand sons dust marines from functioning? And do Ork machines stop working completely?

The 'Pariah Nexus' thing is weird. The Indomitus novel (and some follow up material) is very clear that faith actually helps.... in a very strange way. Not necessarily faith in an entity, but the act of having faith itself. So commissars, chaplains, priests and even Space Marines (so basically 'faith in purpose') are affected less, and that somehow bleeds over to the normal people around them. Its very weird and wishy-washy, and basically validates the blind ignorance of the Imperium without touching of the idea of actual belief in 'higher (or lower) powers' of any sort.

Naturally, this would also be true of Sisters' miracles, which I guess operate contrary to the laws of reality without being psychic or being derived from the Emperor in any real sense. 'It just works.' A wizard did it, but there is no wizard.

It’s possible that the warp impact generated by highly focussed faith is what counteracts the affect of the pylons, similar to how focussed Chaos faith thins the boundaries enough to summon daemons or how the orkish psychic field is stronger the more there are?

Potentially then the sisters are subconsciously using this ‘new’ warp energy generated by their faith before the pylons are able to leech it away.

Would be somewhat self consistent while tying into what’s generally known about faith and warp energy.

Haha I appreciate the passion everyone has behind these answers, always love reading the discussion! Seems like the majority of people seem to think they come from the warp, I’ll have to keep reading aha

Lord Zarkov wrote:

Voss wrote:

Aash wrote:
I haven’t read psychic awakening- pariah, I’m surprised to hear that SOB miracles aren’t stopped like psychic powers. I’ve always thought that the “miracles” are basically Chaos Marks but for worshipping the emperor rather than Nurgle etc.

Does the parish thing stop chaos marks? Or is it just psychic powers? Does it stop thousand sons dust marines from functioning? And do Ork machines stop working completely?

The 'Pariah Nexus' thing is weird. The Indomitus novel (and some follow up material) is very clear that faith actually helps.... in a very strange way. Not necessarily faith in an entity, but the act of having faith itself. So commissars, chaplains, priests and even Space Marines (so basically 'faith in purpose') are affected less, and that somehow bleeds over to the normal people around them. Its very weird and wishy-washy, and basically validates the blind ignorance of the Imperium without touching of the idea of actual belief in 'higher (or lower) powers' of any sort.

Naturally, this would also be true of Sisters' miracles, which I guess operate contrary to the laws of reality without being psychic or being derived from the Emperor in any real sense. 'It just works.' A wizard did it, but there is no wizard.

It’s possible that the warp impact generated by highly focussed faith is what counteracts the affect of the pylons, similar to how focussed Chaos faith thins the boundaries enough to summon daemons or how the orkish psychic field is stronger the more there are?

Potentially then the sisters are subconsciously using this ‘new’ warp energy generated by their faith before the pylons are able to leech it away.

Would be somewhat self consistent while tying into what’s generally known about faith and warp energy.

I'm not sure. The way the pylons interact with the warp is... oddly specific. There's been a couple incidents where Imperial ships have been in the warp when the pylons activate. It basically takes an ocean (think of the ships more as submarines than surface vessels), and does away with all the tides, currents and eddies, flattening warp space down to a single frictionless surface. They use a lot of terrible metaphors that don't really work, but the ships are described as basically skidding along with no way to generate traction to slow, stop or exit,* and ships entering the warp are basically crushed trying to enter. Psychic powers largely don't work, as the sea they're used to drawing from is a sheet of ice they can't get a grip on.

Its more like 'faith' keeps souls three dimensional (and thus able to act) in a suddenly two dimensional warp.

*except Our Heroes, of course, who... yadda yadda their way into a weak point.

A.T. wrote:
Historically though they have never had any of the traits of psychic powers - sisters and the witch hunters they were/are aligned with carry around null rods, psy-trackers, psyocculum targeting scopes, stakes that burn psykers on contact, incense that burns psykers on contact, and so on.

Veeeeery good point. ...I wonder if it's down to those artifacts specifically affecting something about psykers - and not necessarily the Warp power itself...?
We pretty much know by now that psychic ability in humans is most often caused by mutation, maybe there's a biological factor involved too. I'm also thinking of the nature of certain psychic powers that are said to disrupt or intrude open other psykers, while obviously being psychically driven themselves.
Perhaps null rods, psy-trackers et al trigger off the brainwave activity of psykers?

This all assumes of course that the acts of faith and miracles are coming from an outside source instead, rather than being manifested by the Sisters themselves. ...almost as though the Emperor himself were smiling down on them.

One doesn't have to be a psyker to be affected by the warp.

Plague Marines are not psykers yet they are under the ongoing supernatural effect of Nurgle keeping their bodies alive and in an ongoing rotting state when there is no biological reason why they shouldn't already be dead. Khorne despite his hatred of psykers also seems to not mind it when he's the one manipulating the warp energy.

I again would use the D&D divine magic vs arcane magic distinction. When a god is the one that is doing the warp manipulation, either the power is too great to be stopped by a mere mortal's anti-psyker protections, or it is somehow subtly manipulated by the god to bypass. This reasoning might be used to explain why for example Plague Marines don't just automatically collapse and die before a game against Necrons near pylons.

As for why the whole faith thing helps, we know that in the 40K universe all organic living beings have a link to the warp, of varying strength based on species and on whether they are a psyker. The latest stuff on the Pariah Nexus says normal humans caught in its effect become listless and unmotivated. I am not sure whether they specifically say the mechanism of this but I view it as the dampening also of this link each individual has to the warp. Individuals that have stronger wills or purpose maintain their link better and dilute the effect of the Necron pylons on those immediately around them. It isn't total immunity as the Indomitus novel shows the Space Marines constantly having to fight against the pylon effect.

There seem to be three mechanisms for accessing warp powers: innate psychic potential (aka being a psycher); psychically charged/attuned items; intercession by a higher power. Faith seems to require both a high level of devotion along with sufficiently widespread belief in that higher power.

The Chaos Gods have widespread belief locked down. Even creatures that are not aware of them can access the power of the Chaos Gods via proper rituals, sorcery. Sorcery looks a lot like Psychic Powers, but is a separate thing. You have to be a psycher to use a psychic power, but sorcery can be accessed via rituals even if you are not a psycher.

The Emperor has entered the realm of higher power. Enough people believe in him as a god that they can access feats of faith with enough devotion. Non-psychers have withstood the raw power of warp creatures purely on faith. They have performed feats of impossible valor. They have come back from the dead, infused with power beyond that of mortals. The exact mechanism isn't known. It is generally immune to things that normally impact anything that short circuits the Warp. They are miracles, large and small.

Coz...space magic.. and emperor and stuff..

The SoB's powers *should* be warp-based if they're supernatural at all. The fact that the Pariah Nexus storyline portrayed them as something special and ineffable is contrary to the themes of 40k - they should have experienced a mass crisis of faith in response to being exposed to that, and been perhaps at lower combat readiness than a regular Imperial Guardsman.

Hecaton wrote:
The SoB's powers *should* be warp-based if they're supernatural at all. The fact that the Pariah Nexus storyline portrayed them as something special and ineffable is contrary to the themes of 40k - they should have experienced a mass crisis of faith in response to being exposed to that, and been perhaps at lower combat readiness than a regular Imperial Guardsman.

Eh still likely to trigger a flight or flight response. A fight response from trained soliders is much more likely, that's why they train them so the training overcomes instinct

I think SoB running purely on training would be way more dangerous than most run of the mill Guard.

It's the warp being manipulated on their behalf by the Emperor himself. Their faith perhaps acting a conduit for him to do so. Celestine for instance is not just resurrected by his power but guided by him through the warp to live again.

Kayback wrote:

Hecaton wrote:
The SoB's powers *should* be warp-based if they're supernatural at all. The fact that the Pariah Nexus storyline portrayed them as something special and ineffable is contrary to the themes of 40k - they should have experienced a mass crisis of faith in response to being exposed to that, and been perhaps at lower combat readiness than a regular Imperial Guardsman.

Eh still likely to trigger a flight or flight response. A fight response from trained soliders is much more likely, that's why they train them so the training overcomes instinct

I think SoB running purely on training would be way more dangerous than most run of the mill Guard.

No, the same thing that happened to all of the other humans in the area should have happened to them, *except worse*, because they're emotionally reliant on their connection to a warp entity. They should have been uniquely vulnerable to the Pariah Nexus, not immune to it.