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A few interesting features to note about IA Compendium that could indicate changes coming down the pipe for various factions.

1) Obvious one, because we all probably saw it coming, but Chaos dreadnoughts all seem to have gained the "eeeevil version" of duty eternal and custode dreadnoughts have gotten the 'golden version.'

2) Irillyth compared to her previous statline has gained an ability called "Shadow Spectres Pheonix Lord" which is a 4++ invulnerable save. I think it's pretty safe to assume given how generic that name is, all pheonix lords will most likely gain 4++ invulns.

This is, however, the only bit of good news for eldar, because we have a statline for a set of Aspect Warriors and it seems GW is stickin' to their guns in having gakky gakky gakky ultra gakky statlines for the points costs of Eldar units. Twenty-six points per model for T3, W1, 3+, and also A1 S3: Yeah, we totally didn't spend a whole edition learning something about how a statline kinda similar to that just doesn't fething work in a game this deadly... Unless eldar see some improvement through the Battle Focus rule, which is possible given how much is now jam-packed into Angels of Death, Eldar's only hope seems to be getting dropped to such low points that you can basically run a massive horde of aspect warriors against your buddy's 12 space marines.

3) All Ork units presented (Nob bikes, Buzzgob, and the warboss on warbike) seem to have gained +1T compared to their previous iteration. Potential hint at an ork, or at least Nobz And Up, stat boost in the future? Also - every ork vehicle model presented seems to have Ramshackle. That's interesting.

4) looks like all Custode "Bolt" weapons are getting bumped up to at worst D3 damage, usually Flat 2, though Custodes are not seeing any kind of statline improvements. Guess you just have to close your eyes and imagine real hard that Sv3+ - Sv2+ accounts for any physiological difference between a primaris marine wearing fancy gravy boy armor and an Adeptus Custode.

Anything else you all noticed about codexes you're familiar with that could be a portent of things to come? I don't know much about Tyranid statlines, curious whether there's anything snuck in there that looks different.

Orks going up one toughness is an intreasting idea. I think GW is trying to make the various "armies noted for toughness" all have differant approuches to toughness. I actually kinda like that as it means that there's less likelyhood of a "one size fits all" infantry killer for these armies

IG Macharius Vanquisher cannons went from S9, AP-3 D2d6 pick the highest to S16, AP-4, D9 +1 to hit against vehicles. Might mean that the Leman Russ Vanquisher gets similarly buffed and finally really is a better tank hunter then the other LR variants.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
IG Macharius Vanquisher cannons went from S9, AP-3 D2d6 pick the highest to S16, AP-4, D9 +1 to hit against vehicles. Might mean that the Leman Russ Vanquisher gets similarly buffed and finally really is a better tank hunter then the other LR variants.

one can hope.

BrianDavion wrote:
Orks going up one toughness is an intreasting idea. I think GW is trying to make the various "armies noted for toughness" all have differant approuches to toughness. I actually kinda like that as it means that there's less likelyhood of a "one size fits all" infantry killer for these armies

One of the major disappointements for me is the Shadow Spectres statline. Not only is it completely unchanged (basic tactical marine with a gun makes 3 attacks on the charge, lightning-fast aeldari warrior monk with a gun makes....oh...one attack, period.) but they have a special rule that grants them -1 to hit, which presumably means that a modifier to hit is unlikely to be the way they bring an across the board improvement to eldar stuff.

+1" of movement on some of their infantry compared to the baseline speed in the game doesn't really do much to capture the fact that eldar are these 'lightning fast superhuman space elves'.


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 Pyroalchi wrote:
IG Macharius Vanquisher cannons went from S9, AP-3 D2d6 pick the highest to S16, AP-4, D9 +1 to hit against vehicles. Might mean that the Leman Russ Vanquisher gets similarly buffed and finally really is a better tank hunter then the other LR variants.

Wait, D9? As in, flat 9?

I kind of adore that just because of how nearly every tank in the game has 10 or 11 wounds. I love the idea of plinking at a tank with heavy bolters until you get 1 single wound on it and then going SEND IN THE VANQUISHER CANNONS NOW!


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The Macharius Twin Battlecannon is S8 Ap-2 Dd6.

Calling it now: Leman Russes will be getting the same nerf that repulsor executioners did, losing double shots in favor of +1 to hit if you move 6" or less, but all the guns will be seeing statline improvements.

the_scotsman wrote:

Wait, D9? As in, flat 9?

I kind of adore that just because of how nearly every tank in the game has 10 or 11 wounds. I love the idea of plinking at a tank with heavy bolters until you get 1 single wound on it and then going SEND IN THE VANQUISHER CANNONS NOW!

It seems to be flat 9. Note that the Malcadors had W18, Landraiders W16 (unless it was changed) and the Baneblades have 26 something, so D9 is pretty optimal against these.

Makes BS4+ vanquisher about 4 times as good as battle cannon vs tanks.

Makes good finishing blow shot.

tneva82 wrote:
Makes BS4+ vanquisher about 4 times as good as battle cannon vs tanks.

Makes good finishing blow shot.

4 times as good as Dd6 battlecanon?

Because we also have that in the same preview.

Are you sure nob bikers are T6 now?

Fun True Facts about the Kustom Stompa:

Base Cost 1095 - > Base Cost 820

Degrading Strength from 10/9/8/7 - > Degrading Attacks from 6/5/4/3 (Note that Attacks are currently always 4)

Stompa Klaw changed from damage Flat 4 to either damage flat 6, or damage flat 8 (Blurry)

Supa-Rokkits now "Kustom Supa-Rokkits" - indicating either normal stompa supa rokkits are changing, or being removed.

has not gained Ramshackle, like all other ork vehicles presented in IA

has gained keyword "WALKERZ"

Base move nerfed from 12" to 10".

WS now degrades 3+/4+/4+/5+ from 3+/4+/5+/6+.


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 Jidmah wrote:
Are you sure nob bikers are T6 now?

This one is the hardest to see for me, but I *think* so. I am certain Mek Boss Buzzgob went from 4 to 5, and the bikerboss went from T6 to T7.

Is there any sign of escalating durability for things like the Macharius?

If we're back to escalating lethality without improving durability... meh.

I am amused at everyone who hated the Vehicle Damage Chart because you *could* get immobilized or destroyed in one-shot, and here we have a 9-damage gun that used to have similar destructive capability to a Lascannon, once you punched through the armor (which it did rather well).

Eh, a consequence of the new vehicle damage model, I suppose. There's no "armor" to penetrate anymore.

I'm fairly sure it's the same number as strength, and Buzzgob always was T5 except in 8th's index.

Regarding the Battlecannon: Note that the Macharius Battlecannon had d6 damage before while the LR and Malcador Battlecannon had d3. So I don't think this implies the LR battlecannon going to D6.

As the Macharius Vanquiser was S9 before (compared to LR Vanquisher S8) the LR Vanquisher might be a bit tamer than that S16, D9 beast. Looking at the size differences of those cannons I think that is likely at least.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Regarding the Battlecannon: Note that the Macharius Battlecannon had d6 damage before while the LR and Malcador Battlecannon had d3. So I don't think this implies the LR battlecannon going to D6.

As the Macharius Vanquiser was S9 before (compared to LR Vanquisher S8) the LR Vanquisher might be a bit tamer than that S16, D9 beast. Looking at the size differences of those cannons I think that is likely at least.

Possible. It is also worth noting that the Vulture Punisher cannon has been renamed to "Vulture Gatling Cannon" and given a statline in the new book - meaning the base punisher cannon is getting a change in some capacity.


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 Jidmah wrote:
I'm fairly sure it's the same number as strength, and Buzzgob always was T5 except in 8th's index.

They changed Buzzgob's statline between Index Xenos FW and the Compendium? When? I diddn't think FW datasheets ever changed throughout 8th.

the_scotsman wrote:
A few interesting features to note about IA Compendium that could indicate changes coming down the pipe for various factions.

1) Obvious one, because we all probably saw it coming, but Chaos dreadnoughts all seem to have gained the "eeeevil version" of duty eternal and custode dreadnoughts have gotten the 'golden version.'

Except Eldar didn't get the "Eldar version". They got Ignore AP -1 instead, because that's an equivalent rule you want on walkers that draw anti-tank fire

The Grey Knights Land Raider Banisher has the <Brotherhood> keyword, so we may be seeing Chapter tactics for the different Brotherhoods. Also the Psycannon seems to have been bumped up to D2 and AP -1.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm fairly sure it's the same number as strength, and Buzzgob always was T5 except in 8th's index.

They changed Buzzgob's statline between Index Xenos FW and the Compendium? When? I diddn't think FW datasheets ever changed throughout 8th.

He was T5 in 5th, 6th, 7th and only went down to T4 in 8th, though his datasheet was clearly a sloppy copy&past of the regular big mek. It's pretty likely someone just finally fixed it.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
A few interesting features to note about IA Compendium that could indicate changes coming down the pipe for various factions.

1) Obvious one, because we all probably saw it coming, but Chaos dreadnoughts all seem to have gained the "eeeevil version" of duty eternal and custode dreadnoughts have gotten the 'golden version.'

Except Eldar didn't get the "Eldar version". They got Ignore AP -1 instead, because that's an equivalent rule you want on walkers that draw anti-tank fire

oh, that's interesting, I didn't catch that.

Hm. Yeah, doesn't seem particularly useful. Maybe on WG, make them a bit less susceptible to weaponry like autocannons and heavy boltguns. Also, looks like the Wraithknight is down to 8 wounds, no more degrading stats.

Comparing these two:

Ironclad Dread 135pts
M6", WS3+, BS3+, S6 T8 W8 A4 Ld8 Sv3+
Equipped with Seismic hammer (S12 Ap-4 D5, -1 to hit, reroll hit rolls of 1)
Storm Bolter
Meltagun
-1 to damage

Wraithseer 130pts
M8", WS3+ BS3+ S7 T8 W8 A4 LD9 Sv3+
Equipped with Ghostspear (S10 AP-3 D3+d3)
no guns base, has to buy 'em
Ignores AP-1
5++ invuln
casts 1 psychic power from Runes of Battle, or has smite.

in terms of damage, the ironclad obviously does more. its pretty obvious GW doesn't make any marine unit at all basically pay for Shock Assault, which is essentially always on and gives these big-swings units crazy damage potential off of its +1A, plus he's got a bonus meltagun base. Ironclad does 11 unsaved wounds on avg (assuming no melta range) vs standard T7 3+ vehicle, Wraithseer does 7.4.

In terms of baseline durability, the duty eternal makes the dread tougher vs basically everything, compared to the 3+/5++ and ignore AP-1. Even weapons like autocannons and heavy botlers that have AP-1, the dread wins out on thanks to duty eternal halving the damage. The wraithseer is only tougher vs melta specifically.

The only edge the seer has is the psychic power, and 2" of movement, which admittedly has some pretty solid options: He can make himself 2+/4++, which does actually make him more durable than the dread vs almost everything, or he can move twice.

Do I think the seer is particularly UNDERPOWERED? no. I think marines are fething broken, and have been for a solid year and a half now, and basically anything in their codex is going to outperform basically any analogue in any other codex, because GW left all the wild, flailing blanket buffs they slapped onto marines in 2.0 and didn't make anybody pay any points for them. But I do think the wraithseer is a perfectly reasonable piece.

All I know is, based on what was revealed, Custodes got a LOT of good out of it. Sags now have a minimum of D2 on all shots, so there's no reason not to fire both weapons at once. Flying Dudes with the Spear got a flat D2 with shooting and an extra attack with said spear, while the Buckler got better due to them receiving that 2+ they've been needing. Dreads aren't much more for gaining even more durability, and apparently the Sword one might be an attractive option finally.

I'm like ecstatic for the Custldes players.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Pyroalchi wrote:
IG Macharius Vanquisher cannons went from S9, AP-3 D2d6 pick the highest to S16, AP-4, D9 +1 to hit against vehicles. Might mean that the Leman Russ Vanquisher gets similarly buffed and finally really is a better tank hunter then the other LR variants.

one can hope.

I'm not sure I want to hope for a lot of D9 anti tank weapons out there.

the_scotsman wrote:

Ironclad Dread 135pts
M6", WS3+, BS3+, S6 T78 W8 A4 Ld8 Sv3+
Equipped with Seismic hammer (S12 Ap-4 D5, -1 to hit, reroll hit rolls of 1)

That's your D9 Vanquisher cannon right there. D9 -1....

Looking at the Stone-crusher carnifex for the a moment, the image is very blurry, but you can see the wording of the rules:

It looks like the stone-crusher lost the 'brood' rule, and gained the ability for the tail weapon to be used for all attacks.I can't see the statline or any number basically at all, but there are no new special rules added like Duty Eternal or Wraith Construct or Ramshackle.

Some other Aeldari thoughts:

Aspect warriors won't be Core.
Lance weapons may switch to D3+3 damage.
Ravagers may become wych cult and coven options, since they kept those keywords for Reapers.
The Night Shield may change- the Tantalus used to have a Night Shield, but now has a Twilight Field instead which gives it the 5++ against ranged. The Reaper, however, still has a Night Shield which refers to Codex-Drukhari.

Have to say looking at the big Tau Suits they seem to be paying more points for less damage output or survivability than even Leviathan dreadnaughts.
While I will grant that they don't have to pay the 1CP surcharge, they also dont have anything remotely resembling doctorines, shockassualt, bolter discipline or super doctorines.

Looking at the sctyhedule and the stone crusher fex, it appears obvious that GW has re evaluated the concept of melee monsters.

They appear much much more deadly compared to their cost.

A stone crusher fex charging will easily flip any dreadnaught or MBT, and it costs around 120 points if I'm reading the spoilers correctly.

the_scotsman wrote:
It looks like the stone-crusher lost the 'brood' rule, and gained the ability for the tail weapon to be used for all attacks.I can't see the statline or any number basically at all, but there are no new special rules added like Duty Eternal or Wraith Construct or Ramshackle.

IIRC that was the case in Index 8th, and the restriction that only one attack can be made with the tail weapon was added in the codex. If we're going back to being able to put all of one's attacks into scythe tails, that may mean GW has recognized the inability of monsters to deal with chaff.

 Pyroalchi wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Wait, D9? As in, flat 9?

I kind of adore that just because of how nearly every tank in the game has 10 or 11 wounds. I love the idea of plinking at a tank with heavy bolters until you get 1 single wound on it and then going SEND IN THE VANQUISHER CANNONS NOW!

It seems to be flat 9. Note that the Malcadors had W18, Landraiders W16 (unless it was changed) and the Baneblades have 26 something, so D9 is pretty optimal against these.

some dreadnoughts have 9W.

Damage on almost everything went up, durability either stayed the same or went down, except for the -1D built into dreads.

GW appears to be absolutely committed to ramping up the lethality of the game even further than it already has been. They seem to like a game where pretty much everything dies as soon as it is shot at by another unit with the right weaponry to target it.

the_scotsman wrote:

Ironclad Dread 135pts
M6", WS3+, BS3+, S6 T78 W8 A4 Ld8 Sv3+
Equipped with Seismic hammer (S12 Ap-4 D5, -1 to hit, reroll hit rolls of 1)

I know Ironclads were meant to be tougher but damn.

 Valkyrie wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

Ironclad Dread 135pts
M6", WS3+, BS3+, S6 T78 W8 A4 Ld8 Sv3+
Equipped with Seismic hammer (S12 Ap-4 D5, -1 to hit, reroll hit rolls of 1)

I know Ironclads were meant to be tougher but damn.

Got em! destroyed with facts and logic!